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[Auralius Carolus]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Well, considering the Thanix Magnetic Hydromatic Cannon itself is only about a year old by this point, I would hazard a guess that they just overbuilt the biggest, baddest nastiest bunker-busters they could get their hands on with the express intention of making Reaper killers.

T'would explain why we haven't ever seen them before, they're a prototype.

It's just reverse engineered design based on Sovereigns remains. Oddly, it is evident that the Turians didn't figure out what allowed the Reapers to express the fluid around the speed of light, and thusly are still stuck with the lower fractions.

Of course, that would be bad for the story.

As to their design intent, there's no telling. There's such a huge rift betwen ME2 and ME3 in design that a great deal is left for speculation. We could have a whole other game just to fill the plotholes.

[Arian Dynas]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

I might have been ok with an ending where Harb tries to "assume direct control" and Shepard pulls a Saren which kills Harbinger and (somehow) shuts down the reapers.

The only way to pull this off and have Shep live is probably to have Shepard win a mind battle (a conventional battle that is really hard and you must win against huge odds...but in Shep's mind). Could this possibly be turned into Shepard kinda sorta killing Harbinger and then whatever.

Now that I think about it, it sounds kind of corny 

Well I know that you don't introduce an awesome new villain for an entire game, then in the sequel have him not only not speak ever,

but also not get defeated by the hero? The literal ending begs the questions:
What was the point of ME2?
What was the point of Arrival?
What was the point of most of ME1?
What was the point of most of ME3?
What was the point of the series?

This is the biggest evidence for IT here.

Without IT there was no point to the Arrival, nothing we learned about Mass Relays proved to be true. There was no point in delaying the Reapers, they got here at the same time anyway. We never rescued Kenson, we never got any new intel, Shepard is arrested either way (even though canonically he did destroy the Alpha Relay)

Really the only truly significant and "bridging" thing to ME3 was Shepard's Arrest, which was shown to be apparently unimportant, and Shepard's exposure to object Rho.

Considering that The Arrival was being written when ME3 was too, they must have known, there was no way they could NOT know.

The ending doesn't just pull a 180 on the themes, it actually invalidates everything that went before it so perfectly that it was like it was planned, as though they intentionally spun everything around to be it's exact opposite.

When you write a story, you do not do things like that by accident. For most writers, we are simply not wired that way, we cannot completely oppose ourselves by accident.

That and a bunch of the things they promised before release just seem so incredibly suspicious, pressing the importance of The Arrival, claiming (their words, no one sugguested this) that we wouldn't get an "ABC ending", telling us they wanted the player to feel what Shepard feels, to BECOME Shepard and feel his emotions as our own... which they did masterfully. Except for the times where Shepard feels emotions without us, without OUR control, or for that matter, Shepard's own.

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...


You want to cry, do you? You're welcome.

Why did they cut that and this out?? (The male version is better IMO.) This would have been something to make it more personal and perfect to add with EC. WHY BIOWARE??? WHY? 

Putting IT hat

Probably because the emotional weight of the scene would have distracted people from the fact that the entire exchange between Shepard and "Anderson" was in his head....I mean Shepard is talking to himself right... or part of his mind... his ID perhaps?

Anderson is also lying in that scene.

He does have a wife and son. His son is an aerospace engineer, his wife divorced him and remarried years back. You can find a datapad (on Mars I think if my memory serves me correctly) that says as much.

Why would he lie? Because he's not real and it's based on Shepard's perception of him.

Must have missed that datapad. Do you know exactly (lol) where it is?

Edit: Keep in mind that was cut. But that means it was one hell of an oversight.

No clue, sorry >.< 

But yeah I do agree, this was some kind of big **** up, or intentional.

Think about it. According to IT, Anderson isnt really there. He's constructed from Shepard's memories of Anderson.

We may know that Anderson had a family, but does Shepard? Given that she didnt know he was born in London, I'd say its pretty likely that she doesnt know much, if anything, about Anderson's past, and thus would assume that Anderson never had a family.

Dont you love how IT can provide an explanation for basically every plothole in the game, even ones that were technically cut from the game?

That's exactly what I said... >.> it's based off Shepard's perception of Anderson.

Oh and the comment about never having a family, I think that's still in actually.

[demersel]

Actually i think the problem is in the american mindset about war and what it is. (And really, try to not get me wrong here, this is not supposed to be an america bashing post. It's not).

First of all America really didn't have to fight a war on its soil. Never.
America is the only country in the world that has used nuclear weapons against other countries in a war.

The only military attack america suffered is pearl harbor

There is really no notion of what would it be like to defend your home and country against invading enemy force.

Bioware devs often stated that they took WWII as an ispiration for ME3

Well, WWII lasted six years. And it was not won by some super weapon. (only the local part of it was America VS Japan). Germany didn't give up because US used Nuclear Weapon against Japan. They surrendered because they're military was defeated, their country captured entirely, and they literally had nothing left to fight for.

Modifié par demersel, 13 juillet 2012 - 02:06 .

[Arian Dynas]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Well, considering the Thanix Magnetic Hydromatic Cannon itself is only about a year old by this point, I would hazard a guess that they just overbuilt the biggest, baddest nastiest bunker-busters they could get their hands on with the express intention of making Reaper killers.

T'would explain why we haven't ever seen them before, they're a prototype.

It's just reverse engineered design based on Sovereigns remains. Oddly, it is evident that the Turians didn't figure out what allowed the Reapers to express the fluid around the speed of light, and thusly are still stuck with the lower fractions.

Of course, that would be bad for the story.

As to their design intent, there's no telling. There's such a huge rift betwen ME2 and ME3 in design that a great deal is left for speculation. We could have a whole other game just to fill the plotholes.

Which, come to think of it, might not actually be a bad thing...

ME4, takes place slightly before ME3, through the events of ME3, as seen from the outside with a new protagonist, and slightly after ME3.

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...


You want to cry, do you? You're welcome.

Why did they cut that and this out?? (The male version is better IMO.) This would have been something to make it more personal and perfect to add with EC. WHY BIOWARE??? WHY? 

Putting IT hat

Probably because the emotional weight of the scene would have distracted people from the fact that the entire exchange between Shepard and "Anderson" was in his head....I mean Shepard is talking to himself right... or part of his mind... his ID perhaps?

Anderson is also lying in that scene.

He does have a wife and son. His son is an aerospace engineer, his wife divorced him and remarried years back. You can find a datapad (on Mars I think if my memory serves me correctly) that says as much.

Why would he lie? Because he's not real and it's based on Shepard's perception of him.

Must have missed that datapad. Do you know exactly (lol) where it is?

Edit: Keep in mind that was cut. But that means it was one hell of an oversight.

No clue, sorry >.< 

But yeah I do agree, this was some kind of big **** up, or intentional.

Think about it. According to IT, Anderson isnt really there. He's constructed from Shepard's memories of Anderson.

We may know that Anderson had a family, but does Shepard? Given that she didnt know he was born in London, I'd say its pretty likely that she doesnt know much, if anything, about Anderson's past, and thus would assume that Anderson never had a family.

Dont you love how IT can provide an explanation for basically every plothole in the game, even ones that were technically cut from the game?

That's exactly what I said... >.> it's based off Shepard's perception of Anderson.

Oh and the comment about never having a family, I think that's still in actually.

Yeah, I realized that after rereading the quote pyramid. Somehow missed it the first time.

I didnt edit it though, because I figured the second point still stands.

[byne]

demersel wrote...


Bioware devs often stated that they took WWII as an ispiration for ME3

Well, WWII lasted six ears. And it was not won by some super weapon. (only the local part of it was America VS Japan). Germany didn't give up because US used Nuclear Weapon against Japan. They surrendered because they're military was defeated, their country captured entirely, and they literally had nothing left to fight for.

Six whole ears?

[Arian Dynas]

demersel wrote...

Actually i think the problem is in the american mindset about war and what it is. (And really, try to not get me wrong here, this is not supposed to be an america bashing post. It's not).

First of all America really didn't have to fight a war on its soil. Never.
America is the only country in the world that has used nuclear weapons against other countries in a war.

The only military attack america suffered is pearl harbor

There is really no notion of what would it be like to defend yuor home and country against invading enemy force.

Bioware devs often stated that they took WWII as an ispiration for ME3

Well, WWII lasted six ears. And it was not won by some super weapon. (only the local part of it was America VS Japan). Germany didn't give up because US used Nuclear Weapon against Japan. They surrendered because they're military was defeated, their country captured entirely, and they literally had nothing left to fight for.

*cough* Um, hate to be a nit here, I do mostly agree with your assessment, but um...

War of 1812, England burns our capitol and conquers most of the country.

WWII, The Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor and invade the Aleutian Islands

WWI, Pancho Villa invades US soil and kills American Citizens.

9/11, Not touching that one. I feel nothing about it, but it's still a plenty touchy subject for most of America, one we take great personal umbrage to, which does support your point.

The Spanish-American War, Need I say more?

I'll give you the Revolutionary War, since we weren't technically a country yet, and the Civil War doesn't count, since we were fighting among ourselves.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 13 juillet 2012 - 02:08 .

[demersel]

byne wrote...

Six whole ears?

. 

Yep. Go ahead - speedtype several coherent pharagraph in russian at 5 am. I'll read and laugh. 

[byne]

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Six whole ears?

. 

Yep. Go ahead - speedtype several coherent pharagraph in russian at 5 am. I'll read and laugh. 

Well, I wasnt making fun of you or anything. I only focused on that part because I didnt really see much else to disagree with.

I figure us Americans would be less eager to constantly go to war if war ever actually made its way to our soil, and wasnt just us sending soldiers to some country halfway across the world.

[Arian Dynas]

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Six whole ears?

. 

Yep. Go ahead - speedtype several coherent pharagraph in russian at 5 am. I'll read and laugh. 

Здравствуйте, мой друг, как ты?

[Auralius Carolus]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Which, come to think of it, might not actually be a bad thing...

ME4, takes place slightly before ME3, through the events of ME3, as seen from the outside with a new protagonist, and slightly after ME3.

When you require two stories to satisfy the needs of one, you have EPIC FAIL!

[demersel]

Arian Dynas wrote...

demersel wrote...

Actually i think the problem is in the american mindset about war and what it is. (And really, try to not get me wrong here, this is not supposed to be an america bashing post. It's not).

First of all America really didn't have to fight a war on its soil. Never.
America is the only country in the world that has used nuclear weapons against other countries in a war.

The only military attack america suffered is pearl harbor

There is really no notion of what would it be like to defend yuor home and country against invading enemy force.

Bioware devs often stated that they took WWII as an ispiration for ME3

Well, WWII lasted six ears. And it was not won by some super weapon. (only the local part of it was America VS Japan). Germany didn't give up because US used Nuclear Weapon against Japan. They surrendered because they're military was defeated, their country captured entirely, and they literally had nothing left to fight for.

*cough* Um, hate to be a nit here, I do mostly agree with your assessment, but um...

War of 1812, England burns our capitol and conquers most of the country.

WWII, The Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor and invade the Aleutian Islands

WWI, Pancho Villa invades US soil and kills American Citizens.

9/11, Not touching that one. I feel nothing about it, but it's still a plenty touchy subject for most of America, one we take great personal umbrage to, which does support your point.

The Spanish-American War, Need I say more?

I'll give you the Revolutionary War, since we weren't technically a country yet, and the Civil War doesn't count, since we were fighting among ourselves.

Ok. Spanish-American War. - Fine. 

By the way, how many american citizens Pancho Villa kills?

But in the last 100 years?

And namely in WWII. I mentioned Pearl Hurbor. But it was A single Airstrike. London (the capital of the country) was bombed EVERY DAY SEVERAL TIMES A DAY for more than 4 years. 

Leningrad was completely surrounded, bombed daily, for 3 years. They tried to sturve a whole city to death.

[Arian Dynas]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Which, come to think of it, might not actually be a bad thing...

ME4, takes place slightly before ME3, through the events of ME3, as seen from the outside with a new protagonist, and slightly after ME3.

When you require two stories to satisfy the needs of one, you have EPIC FAIL!

I disagree, seeing the Reaper War from a perspective other than Shepard's might be cool.

Oh, and who else is feeling weird about the Ultima Forever thing that keeps popping up? 

[demersel]

Arian Dynas wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Six whole ears?

. 

Yep. Go ahead - speedtype several coherent pharagraph in russian at 5 am. I'll read and laugh. 

Здравствуйте, мой друг, как ты?

yep. Made a  mistake in one simple sentence. 

[Arian Dynas]

demersel wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

demersel wrote...

Actually i think the problem is in the american mindset about war and what it is. (And really, try to not get me wrong here, this is not supposed to be an america bashing post. It's not).

First of all America really didn't have to fight a war on its soil. Never.
America is the only country in the world that has used nuclear weapons against other countries in a war.

The only military attack america suffered is pearl harbor

There is really no notion of what would it be like to defend yuor home and country against invading enemy force.

Bioware devs often stated that they took WWII as an ispiration for ME3

Well, WWII lasted six ears. And it was not won by some super weapon. (only the local part of it was America VS Japan). Germany didn't give up because US used Nuclear Weapon against Japan. They surrendered because they're military was defeated, their country captured entirely, and they literally had nothing left to fight for.

*cough* Um, hate to be a nit here, I do mostly agree with your assessment, but um...

War of 1812, England burns our capitol and conquers most of the country.

WWII, The Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor and invade the Aleutian Islands

WWI, Pancho Villa invades US soil and kills American Citizens.

9/11, Not touching that one. I feel nothing about it, but it's still a plenty touchy subject for most of America, one we take great personal umbrage to, which does support your point.

The Spanish-American War, Need I say more?

I'll give you the Revolutionary War, since we weren't technically a country yet, and the Civil War doesn't count, since we were fighting among ourselves.

Ok. Spanish-American War. - Fine. 

By the way, how many american citizens Pancho Villa kills?

But in the last 100 years?

And namely in WWII. I mentioned Pearl Hurbor. But it was A single Airstrike. London (the capital of the country) was bombed EVERY DAY SEVERAL TIMES A DAY for more than 4 years. 

Leningrad was completely surrounded, bombed daily, for 3 years. They tried to sturve a whole city to death.

I am not disagreeing with you, merely pointing out an omission.

Though the Aleutian Islands WERE the first (and only) American soil to fall into enemy hands in WWII.

[Arian Dynas]

demersel wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Six whole ears?

. 

Yep. Go ahead - speedtype several coherent pharagraph in russian at 5 am. I'll read and laugh. 

Здравствуйте, мой друг, как ты?

yep. Made a  mistake in one simple sentence. 

I haven't taken a class in more than 3 years, I wasn't a very good student to begin with, and could not for the life of me tell you what the flaming **** a genetive case is if I tried.

I'll stick to English to be honest. 

[demersel]

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Six whole ears?

. 

Yep. Go ahead - speedtype several coherent pharagraph in russian at 5 am. I'll read and laugh. 

Well, I wasnt making fun of you or anything. I only focused on that part because I didnt really see much else to disagree with.

I figure us Americans would be less eager to constantly go to war if war ever actually made its way to our soil, and wasnt just us sending soldiers to some country halfway across the world.

I'm not making a comment on the us foreign policy. 

I'm just staing a fact that real conventional full scale modern war, that is waged on the american soil - is the worts nightmare of every american. More than that. It is something unimaginably terrible. But yet something vague. It's like if it ever happens - it will by terrible and everybody will just die, right at the instance when enemy lays foot on american soil. Or everybody will just instantly vaporated, by the nukes. No notion of long tern conventional fighting. 

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Six whole ears?

. 

Yep. Go ahead - speedtype several coherent pharagraph in russian at 5 am. I'll read and laugh. 

Well, I wasnt making fun of you or anything. I only focused on that part because I didnt really see much else to disagree with.

I figure us Americans would be less eager to constantly go to war if war ever actually made its way to our soil, and wasnt just us sending soldiers to some country halfway across the world.

Byne makes a good point.

[Arian Dynas]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Six whole ears?

. 

Yep. Go ahead - speedtype several coherent pharagraph in russian at 5 am. I'll read and laugh. 

Well, I wasnt making fun of you or anything. I only focused on that part because I didnt really see much else to disagree with.

I figure us Americans would be less eager to constantly go to war if war ever actually made its way to our soil, and wasnt just us sending soldiers to some country halfway across the world.

Byne makes a good point.

I always liked my father's take on this.

"Don't die for your country. Go and make the other poor bastard die for his."

[jgibson14352]

Arian Dynas wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

demersel wrote...

byne wrote...

Six whole ears?

. 

Yep. Go ahead - speedtype several coherent pharagraph in russian at 5 am. I'll read and laugh. 

Well, I wasnt making fun of you or anything. I only focused on that part because I didnt really see much else to disagree with.

I figure us Americans would be less eager to constantly go to war if war ever actually made its way to our soil, and wasnt just us sending soldiers to some country halfway across the world.

Byne makes a good point.

I always liked my father's take on this.

"Don't die for your country. Go and make the other poor bastard die for his."

was your father general george patton?

[demersel]

At any rate - back to ME3 - in the whole game we have not yet even began to fight the reapers.

How can you say conventinal victory is impossible, if we have not even began to try??

And futhermore - we need to define - what is victory?

What really makes me mad is when people say thay cannot bring themselfes to pick destroy couse EDI and geth will die. And thus Control is the better option....... (try to understand me right control might be better option, but by some other reason, then if you don't pick control, and pick destroy, EDI and the GETH will die, and we can't have that). And what really makes me mad is saying destroy is genecide oh the GETH, of the REAPER (REALLY???) and of EDI....

[byne]

demersel wrote...

At any rate - back to ME3 - in the whole game we have not yet even began to fight the reapers.

How can you say conventinal victory is impossible, if we have not even began to try??

And futhermore - we need to define - what is victory?

What really makes me mad is when people say thay cannot bring themselfes to pick destroy couse EDI and geth will die. And thus Control is the better option....... (try to understand me right control might be better option, but by some other reason, then if you don't pick control, and pick destroy, EDI and the GETH will die, and we can't have that). And what really makes me mad is saying destroy is genecide oh the GETH, of the REAPER (REALLY???) and of EDI....

People die in war. EDI and the geth undestand that. The people who call destroy genocide apparently dont.

[Auralius Carolus]

demersel wrote...

Actually i think the problem is in the american mindset about war and what it is. (And really, try to not get me wrong here, this is not supposed to be an america bashing post. It's not).

First of all America really didn't have to fight a war on its soil. Never.
America is the only country in the world that has used nuclear weapons against other countries in a war.

The only military attack america suffered is pearl harbor

There is really no notion of what would it be like to defend your home and country against invading enemy force.

Bioware devs often stated that they took WWII as an ispiration for ME3

Well, WWII lasted six years. And it was not won by some super weapon. (only the local part of it was America VS Japan). Germany didn't give up because US used Nuclear Weapon against Japan. They surrendered because they're military was defeated, their country captured entirely, and they literally had nothing left to fight for.

The American mindset on war is the Roman mindset on war, which in turn is this: You are only obligated to protect your own. But protect them well. If you have an enemy, take the fight to them and keep your own people safe. If the enemy yields and favors you, then grant them your blessings. If they refuse to yield, break them utterly. Like the Romans did to Gaul, so did we unto Japan.

And as to not knowing what it means to defend our homes; do not lecture me of that. This new generation seems to have forgotten how fragile civilization is, and that what integrity it has is often paid for with blood.

[demersel]

Ok....why am I so angy and agitated? Oh yes, that must be because i read like 6 pages of posts about impossibility of defeating the reapers without the crucible....in the IT thread.....of all the places....

Maybe i really need to go have some sleep?