55528 réponses à ce sujet

[UltimateTobi]

Salient Archer wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

So Salient Archer's argument for the IT is that the Mass Effect story is inconsistent with reality and itself and that it simply just plain doesn't make sense? So THAT'S your "evidence"?

"He(y) guys, look at how little sense the whole events of ME3 makes, that means the IT must be true! OMG!"

Yeah, great logic guys. Why don't we just all accept ME3 for what it is; a poorly written story that doesn't make much sense?

Now who's grasping? My point has nothing to do with writing or even IT. It's just a scientific breakdown of why it isn't possible. To be honest you're just being argumentaive for the sake of it. 

So answer this for me:

are you
[1] A troll
[2] Feel it's your duty to educate us poor misguided souls
[3] Praying that we can convince you that IT is true
[4] Hurting that ME3 didn't offer you the closure you wanted and can't seem to move on.

I don't really care for your answer, I just want you to think about it.

As for me, I'm off. I might jump back in a week to see how things are doing. Peace out all!

1 week? You'll have to read through a couple hundred pages then.

[ean0611]

Haretic_Hanar: A few questions

1) For your literal interpretation, how does the Carnifex change into a Predator at the end of Destroy? Both sound and model change. This is deliberate, as this cannot be a code bug. The sound is not a sudden change, but a fade.

2) The Relay explosion: They don't start at earth, see ending videos. The EC did not change this, while changing many other things.

3) Harbinger says "Serve Us" right before the red beam almost hits Shepard.

4) The wound after Anderson dies, again, not a bug, as camera work is scripted and intentional, why show the wound where we NEVER saw Shepard get hit.

5) Breath scene. Where do you think that scene takes place? It's only on destroy at high EMS.

6) Where did Anderson get a predator? (Gun TIM takes from him). He's clearly shown with a Carnifex. Anderson shows no sign of injury or other trauma like Shepard does.

7) Why does Harbinger fly away from the ONE WEAKNESS that he may have? They clearly show Harbinger flying away. If the Conduit there is that much of a weakness, he'd stay there.

8) White screen fade. This ONLY happens in dreams or in Geth Consensus. As in not reality. Funny that they chose to use it at the ending, isn't it?

9) Reversal or Paragon and Renegade. Anderson is NOT a renegade, TIM Is not paragon. They are shown reverse of what they are in the end. You think someone isn't trying to play with your perceptions? Really?

[CoolioThane]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dam0299 wrote...

@Heretic_Hanar, you are firm in what you think is true, I can respect that. However what I find rather childish is your need to insult, you can just as easily argue against something without the need to call things "Retarded". That in itself makes it difficult to take you seriously.

Well no offense but I honestly do think that the IT is retarded. I never believed in IT myself, but at least I respected the IT before the Extended Cut. But with the extended cut not expanding on the IT, I had hoped that most people would have been reasonable enough to drop the IT, because it clearly isn't true. Yet people still insist that their little "theory" is valid even after the EC. Guys, if BioWare had the intention of using the IT, they would already have done so in the Extended Cut. They didn't, so please just drop this sillyness.

I'm sorry, but this kind of behavior seems very similar to the behavior of another specific group of people, a group which I also find very hard to take seriously.

If you want to know which group I'm talking about, click here. That movement is just a plain insult on the scientific community and human intelligence.

Okay then, run along with your narrow minded view. There's a good boy.

We're all retarded and silly because YOU think differently to us. We should bow down to your supreme knowledge and obvious wisdom. Oh wait, there are hundreds of us. You're making yourself look really silly, mate.

If the IT turns out to be true you'll look incredibly redfaced, my son. 

[The Heretic of Time]

Salient Archer wrote...

Now who's grasping? My point has nothing to do with writing or even IT. It's just a scientific breakdown of why it isn't possible. To be honest you're just being argumentaive for the sake of it. 

So when it comes to assumptions that you do not like, you feel the need to make a scientific breakdown of why that assumption can't be true (which I find rather ridiculous, because we're talking about fiction here, badly written fiction at that), yet you have no trouble to blindly accept the IT and and clamp at every single possible clue that might hint at IT, instead of scrutinizing the IT like you should?

Double standards much?

So answer this for me:

are you
[1] A troll
[2] Feel it's your duty to educate us poor misguided souls
[3] Praying that we can convince you that IT is true
[4] Hurting that ME3 didn't offer you the closure you wanted and can't seem to move on.

I don't really care for your answer, I just want you to think about it.

As for me, I'm off. I might jump back in a week to see how things are doing. Peace out all!

A little bit of 1 and 2. Definately not 3 and 4.

[paxxton]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

So Salient Archer's argument for the IT is that the Mass Effect story is inconsistent with reality and itself and that it simply just plain doesn't make sense? So THAT'S your "evidence"?

"He(y) guys, look at how little sense the whole events of ME3 makes, that means the IT must be true! OMG!"

Yeah, great logic guys. Why don't we just all accept ME3 for what it is; a poorly written story that doesn't make much sense?

Now who's grasping? My point has nothing to do with writing or even IT. It's just a scientific breakdown of why it isn't possible. To be honest you're just being argumentaive for the sake of it. 

So answer this for me:

are you
[1] A troll
[2] Feel it's your duty to educate us poor misguided souls
[3] Praying that we can convince you that IT is true
[4] Hurting that ME3 didn't offer you the closure you wanted and can't seem to move on.

I don't really care for your answer, I just want you to think about it.

As for me, I'm off. I might jump back in a week to see how things are doing. Peace out all!

1 week? You'll have to read through a couple hundred pages then.

Not a very good time for a summer break. Mass Effect panel tomorrow, anyone?

Modifié par paxxton, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:10 .

[ean0611]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dam0299 wrote...

@Heretic_Hanar, you are firm in what you think is true, I can respect that. However what I find rather childish is your need to insult, you can just as easily argue against something without the need to call things "Retarded". That in itself makes it difficult to take you seriously.

Well no offense but I honestly do think that the IT is retarded. I never believed in IT myself, but at least I respected the IT before the Extended Cut. But with the extended cut not expanding on the IT, I had hoped that most people would have been reasonable enough to drop the IT, because it clearly isn't true. Yet people still insist that their little "theory" is valid even after the EC. Guys, if BioWare had the intention of using the IT, they would already have done so in the Extended Cut. They didn't, so please just drop this sillyness.

I'm sorry, but this kind of behavior seems very similar to the behavior of another specific group of people, a group which I also find very hard to take seriously.

If you want to know which group I'm talking about, click here. That movement is just a plain insult on the scientific community and human intelligence.

So you're comparing IT theorists, who take the data shown, and extrapolate and create a theory and test it against what we find, against those who do the opposite.

Right, I think you need to check what you're comparing. This is data driven, as in what data is presented in game, as Bioware has intentionally not commented. 

Oh yeah, Bioware has specifically avoided talking about IT. As in they stutter in public about it. They're dying to talk about it, and can't yet.

Modifié par ean0611, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:12 .

[zigamortis]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

Who says the object didnt succeed? and how is shepard not an important military leader? just because he doesnt command the army does not mean he is not a leader. the fact that he brought the entire galaxy together shows that he is an amazing leader.

ME3 says the object didn't succeed. Shepard clearly isn't indoctrinated through ME3.

Besides, didn't you indoctrination theorists believe Harbinger is indoctrinating Shepard during the finale? So what happened, did you change your belief all of the sudden? How about less believing and more trying to back up your belief with solid proof for a chance?

I think the "indoctrination theory" should be renamed to "indoctrination belief" or "indoctrination religion". An actual theory is based on solid proof. The IT is not based on solid proof but simply at guessing, grasping straws and desperately trying to find clues that back up your hypothesis, instead of honestly scrutinizing and trying to test how solid your hypthesis really is, like you should.

Let me clarify what i ment. What if the object started the progress? and how has the IT not been tested? the worst you literalists can throw at it as "It was just bad writing". If you want to disprove it go through every little fact and find a reason why it is there. Until then i sugjest you leave instead of simply trolling the forums.

[paxxton]

Are they going to stream the ME panel?

[FFZero]

Umm why are you even here Heretic_Hanar, other than to troll us I mean? It’s clear you don’t agree with IT and that no matter what we say you won’t be convinced otherwise, so why are you even in this thread? Just to insult us?

Bioware themselves have said parts of the game are open to interpretation and speculation. We have our interpretation, you have yours. According to Bioware neither interpretation is right or wrong at this point.

[The Heretic of Time]

CoolioThane wrote...

Okay then, run along with your narrow minded view. There's a good boy.

LOL!  You're the one with a tunnel vision and staring yourself blind at a silly theory about a crappy ending. So don't call me narrow-minded son.

We're all retarded and silly because YOU think differently to us. We should bow down to your supreme knowledge and obvious wisdom. Oh wait, there are hundreds of us. You're making yourself look really silly, mate.

Coolio story bro. I did not say you are retarded (do you do act pretty retarded), I said your little theory is retarded.

If the IT turns out to be true you'll look incredibly redfaced, my son. 

And if the IT turns out not to be true you'll simply stick your head in the sand and deny it while desperately trying to hold on to your little silly theory because you just cannot accept that the plot of ME3 just really isn't that good... oh wait, that already happened when the EC got released! LOL! 

[CoolioThane]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Now who's grasping? My point has nothing to do with writing or even IT. It's just a scientific breakdown of why it isn't possible. To be honest you're just being argumentaive for the sake of it. 

So when it comes to assumptions that you do not like, you feel the need to make a scientific breakdown of why that assumption can't be true (which I find rather ridiculous, because we're talking about fiction here, badly written fiction at that), yet you have no trouble to blindly accept the IT and and clamp at every single possible clue that might hint at IT, instead of scrutinizing the IT like you should?

Double standards much?

So answer this for me:

are you
[1] A troll
[2] Feel it's your duty to educate us poor misguided souls
[3] Praying that we can convince you that IT is true
[4] Hurting that ME3 didn't offer you the closure you wanted and can't seem to move on.

I don't really care for your answer, I just want you to think about it.

As for me, I'm off. I might jump back in a week to see how things are doing. Peace out all!

A little bit of 1 and 2. Definately not 3 and 4.

Firstly, sorry for getting angry at you Hanar, this one apologises, but I just don't understand why you go about things the way you do.

It's fine to have your own opinion, but to label us as retards for not thinking the same as you is pretty wrong.

Also, you keep claiming the game is badly written, and for us to continually agree with you about this 'fact'. A lot of us thought the game was very well written, especially Weekes' stuff.

I don't understand why you don't accept us having our own interpretation. It's clear you hated the story of the game, and even when we believe in IT, which would clearly make the endings better and more interesting, you call us retards. I look at it as us being quite positive about Bioware, a company we love for making deep, brilliant games, and there being a spectacular end to ME3 (IT would give this)...you seem to want to be miserable? It's like your glass is VERY HALF EMPTY, which is a sad sight.

I've never understood pessimism. 

[The Heretic of Time]

FFZero wrote...

Umm why are you even here Heretic_Hanar, other than to troll us I mean? It’s clear you don’t agree with IT and that no matter what we say you won’t be convinced otherwise, so why are you even in this thread? Just to insult us?

I actually hoped to convince some of you guys that the IT just doesn't hold that much water. But it seems that whatever I say you can't be convinced, so maybe I should leave indeed.

Bioware themselves have said parts of the game are open to interpretation and speculation. We have our interpretation, you have yours. According to Bioware neither interpretation is right or wrong at this point.

Ow come on, do you honestly believe that? If the IT was even remotely true, don't you think BioWare would have done something with it in the EC? They didn't. They made clear that the endings we get is all there is. I believe the only reason why BioWare doesn't just outright say that the IT is nonsense because they know how much that would upset a part of their fanbase and right now they can't really affort to lose even more fans (they already lost plenty).

[Dam0299]

CoolioThane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Now who's grasping? My point has nothing to do with writing or even IT. It's just a scientific breakdown of why it isn't possible. To be honest you're just being argumentaive for the sake of it. 

So when it comes to assumptions that you do not like, you feel the need to make a scientific breakdown of why that assumption can't be true (which I find rather ridiculous, because we're talking about fiction here, badly written fiction at that), yet you have no trouble to blindly accept the IT and and clamp at every single possible clue that might hint at IT, instead of scrutinizing the IT like you should?

Double standards much?

So answer this for me:

are you
[1] A troll
[2] Feel it's your duty to educate us poor misguided souls
[3] Praying that we can convince you that IT is true
[4] Hurting that ME3 didn't offer you the closure you wanted and can't seem to move on.

I don't really care for your answer, I just want you to think about it.

As for me, I'm off. I might jump back in a week to see how things are doing. Peace out all!

A little bit of 1 and 2. Definately not 3 and 4.

Firstly, sorry for getting angry at you Hanar, this one apologises, but I just don't understand why you go about things the way you do.

It's fine to have your own opinion, but to label us as retards for not thinking the same as you is pretty wrong.

Also, you keep claiming the game is badly written, and for us to continually agree with you about this 'fact'. A lot of us thought the game was very well written, especially Weekes' stuff.

I don't understand why you don't accept us having our own interpretation. It's clear you hated the story of the game, and even when we believe in IT, which would clearly make the endings better and more interesting, you call us retards. I look at it as us being quite positive about Bioware, a company we love for making deep, brilliant games, and there being a spectacular end to ME3 (IT would give this)...you seem to want to be miserable? It's like your glass is VERY HALF EMPTY, which is a sad sight.

I've never understood pessimism. 

It almost seems the glass is completely empty in this case .

[ean0611]

CoolioThane, I laid out a few points. Hanar hasn't responded to them.

Clarification: Do not feed the troll.
/HK-47

[CoolioThane]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Okay then, run along with your narrow minded view. There's a good boy.

LOL!  You're the one with a tunnel vision and staring yourself blind at a silly theory about a crappy ending. So don't call me narrow-minded son.

We're all retarded and silly because YOU think differently to us. We should bow down to your supreme knowledge and obvious wisdom. Oh wait, there are hundreds of us. You're making yourself look really silly, mate.

Coolio story bro. I did not say you are retarded (do you do act pretty retarded), I said your little theory is retarded.

If the IT turns out to be true you'll look incredibly redfaced, my son. 

And if the IT turns out not to be true you'll simply stick your head in the sand and deny it while desperately trying to hold on to your little silly theory because you just cannot accept that the plot of ME3 just really isn't that good... oh wait, that already happened when the EC got released! LOL! 

Tunnel vision? No, I look at all the evidence, and in my eyes the It makes more sense than the literal endings. You ignore any potential evidence or think negatively towards it because you are biased.

Yes, but by believing in a retarded theory, us ourselves are retarded obviously. It's also more than just a "little theory"

I shan't stick my head in the sand. I'll be disappointed but I'll still headcanon the IT  You have a lot more to lose with all of your comments, friend. The EC strengthened the IT, so you obviously haven't a clue what you're talking about 

[CoolioThane]

Dam0299 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Now who's grasping? My point has nothing to do with writing or even IT. It's just a scientific breakdown of why it isn't possible. To be honest you're just being argumentaive for the sake of it. 

So when it comes to assumptions that you do not like, you feel the need to make a scientific breakdown of why that assumption can't be true (which I find rather ridiculous, because we're talking about fiction here, badly written fiction at that), yet you have no trouble to blindly accept the IT and and clamp at every single possible clue that might hint at IT, instead of scrutinizing the IT like you should?

Double standards much?

So answer this for me:

are you
[1] A troll
[2] Feel it's your duty to educate us poor misguided souls
[3] Praying that we can convince you that IT is true
[4] Hurting that ME3 didn't offer you the closure you wanted and can't seem to move on.

I don't really care for your answer, I just want you to think about it.

As for me, I'm off. I might jump back in a week to see how things are doing. Peace out all!

A little bit of 1 and 2. Definately not 3 and 4.

Firstly, sorry for getting angry at you Hanar, this one apologises, but I just don't understand why you go about things the way you do.

It's fine to have your own opinion, but to label us as retards for not thinking the same as you is pretty wrong.

Also, you keep claiming the game is badly written, and for us to continually agree with you about this 'fact'. A lot of us thought the game was very well written, especially Weekes' stuff.

I don't understand why you don't accept us having our own interpretation. It's clear you hated the story of the game, and even when we believe in IT, which would clearly make the endings better and more interesting, you call us retards. I look at it as us being quite positive about Bioware, a company we love for making deep, brilliant games, and there being a spectacular end to ME3 (IT would give this)...you seem to want to be miserable? It's like your glass is VERY HALF EMPTY, which is a sad sight.

I've never understood pessimism. 

It almost seems the glass is completely empty in this case .

Indeed, I nearly wrote that xD

[Lord Goose]

8) White screen fade. This ONLY happens in dreams or in Geth Consensus. As in not reality. Funny that they chose to use it at the ending, isn't it?

Drednought blowing up during Prologue: Earth.

Modifié par Lord Goose, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:26 .

[UltimateTobi]

Lord Goose wrote...

8) White screen fade. This ONLY happens in dreams or in Geth Consensus. As in not reality. Funny that they chose to use it at the ending, isn't it?

Drednought blowing up during Prologue: Earth.

You missed the point. That's no screen fade, it's an explosion.

[CoolioThane]

Goose, I believe people also find Vancouver odd! Specifically the Normandy not getting shot at, similar to the EC scene - quite interesting

[ean0611]

Lord Goose wrote...

8) White screen fade. This ONLY happens in dreams or in Geth Consensus. As in not reality. Funny that they chose to use it at the ending, isn't it?

Drednought blowing up during Prologue: Earth.

Can you caputer a complete white screen? That looks like a bloom effect rather than a fade. In the dreams effect, you did not see a background.

Also, go into the game files, the transition is only used on dream sequences prior to the ending. 

[Lord Goose]

You missed the point. That's no screen fade, it's an explosion.

But it looks exactly the same.

[UltimateTobi]

Lord Goose wrote...

You missed the point. That's no screen fade, it's an explosion.

But it looks exactly the same.

No, it doesn't. With the white screen fade, the whole screen turns white. Nothing else is visible while the screen fades white.

In this picture, it's just a white, very bright, eezo explosion of the ship.

[The Heretic of Time]

CoolioThane wrote...

Firstly, sorry for getting angry at you Hanar, this one apologises, but I just don't understand why you go about things the way you do.

Well thanks. That is very kind of you. Then I feel it as my duty to apologise for acting like an ass and ridiculing you. So yeah, sorry about that.

It's fine to have your own opinion, but to label us as retards for not thinking the same as you is pretty wrong.

Again, I did not label you as people as retards, I labeled your "theory" as retarded. I have something against the "theory" itself, not the people who support it.

Also, you keep claiming the game is badly written, and for us to continually agree with you about this 'fact'. A lot of us thought the game was very well written, especially Weekes' stuff.

Weekes deserves some credit for his parts. But the general plot of Mass Effect already went downhill with ME2. ME3 only made it worse by introducing the Crucible at the most retarded place and moment, by sidelining Harbinger, by turning TIM into a cardboard-cutout cliche villian who basically wasn't more than just a copy of Saren, turning Cerberus into a regular army of goons simply to provide to player with something to pew-pew at, and by adding those hilariously silly dreams aboutt hat obnoxious vent kid. I could go on like this, but I won't. I think I made my point clear.

I don't understand why you don't accept us having our own interpretation. It's clear you hated the story of the game, and even when we believe in IT, which would clearly make the endings better and more interesting, you call us retards.

Again, I did not call you retards, I called your theory retarded.

I look at it as us being quite positive about Bioware, a company we love for making deep, brilliant games, and there being a spectacular end to ME3 (IT would give this)...you seem to want to be miserable? It's like your glass is VERY HALF EMPTY, which is a sad sight.

Haha! I'm not miserable , but I won't deny I was miserable at first. But I've grown over it. I've learned to accept that the Mass Effect series is not as awesome as it could have been. I can live with it and frankly I even get some fun out of it by making fun of ME3 and it's bad story. It might be childish, but it's fun.

I just think you folks who believe in the IT are fooling yourselves. You'll only get hurt when it turns out the IT was never true to begin with.  One day, if BioWare continues the series, they'll have to establish a canon in some way or form. If it turns out that your IT has no place in that canon, than it can only hurt you. Better to accept it now than later I'd say. I mean look at the forum when the EC was released. Look at how many IT supporters were angry and sad at first that BioWare did not adress their theory in the EC. And look at how many people saw the Refuse ending as a direct insult from BioWare. The ending of ME3 caused a lot of grief and why? Because it was worse than we hoped it would be, a lot worse. The IT is simply a way to find comfort with this horrible ending, just like religion provides comfort for people who find it hard to deal with life. But I believe it's much better to just face the truth, the truth that the IT probably just isn't real and the truth that you're only desperately clamp to this theory to make something good out of something really bad.

I've never understood pessimism. 

Well I can tell you the upsides about being a pessimist. For one; I rarely get dissapointed because I always expect the worst. Instead, I often get happily surprised when things turn out to be better than I thought. Being a pessimist is quite awesome really.

[Salient Archer]

Lord Goose wrote...

8) White screen fade. This ONLY happens in dreams or in Geth Consensus. As in not reality. Funny that they chose to use it at the ending, isn't it?

Drednought blowing up during Prologue: Earth.

I don't mean this in a serious way, but was that Dreadnought even real? Because if it is, what the **** was it doing in atmosphere? That Dreadnought always bothered me.

[Lord Goose]

Not sure what are you talking about. They're almost identical, just one with background.

Modifié par Lord Goose, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:40 .