55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Rosewind]

masster blaster wrote...

Why so quiet everyone?

Because we all just hallucinations....

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Blaster, a lot of the points you just made are based off of glaring inaccuracies.

Shep betrays Mordin to ensure that the genophage remains uncured so he can receive Salarian support. Not only that, but it's a player made decision and there's even an option to convince Mordin to sabotage the cure b/c the Krogan aren't ready.

Secondly, there's never any indication of Shep "trusting" TIM after the confrontation on Mars. The closest Shep ever comes to this is when he acknowledges that TIM was right about the possibility of controlling the Reapers.

Lastly, not only does Shepard have a different design and coloration from TIM's (and only if playing renegade), these are a direct result of his implants and are present in ME2 if you play renegade.

EDIT: I accidentally said ME1 instead of ME2 in regards to the implants.

Modifié par Leonardo the Magnificent, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:05 .

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

Hanar read this please, and tell me Shepard does not do these things if we tell Shepard to do so, in which case. We are the Reapers telling Shepard what to do in ME3. In the past we were Shepard's little voice telling Shepard what to do, but Now we are the Reapers filling Shepard with doubt ( Paragon), and making Shepard betray his/her friends (renegade).

Also Hanar like you said. If renegade Shepard has tim's eyes only red. Does that mean Shepard is becoming an Indoctrinated person under the Reapers infulence ( and I mean usas the Reapers in ME3 because we tell Sheaprd what to do, and not many people reailze that Bioware could have let us Indcotrinated Sheaprd withour even knowing we were playing as the Reapers Indoctrinating Shepard.).

You guys are insane. Shepard is our character (to some degree) and we decide what he does and why he does it. We are nothing else but ourselves, the players. This whole "theory" is going way to far. This is just getting plain insane and borderline scary. 

I for one played Renegade Shepard almost all the way (some Paragon here and there) and never did I have the feeling my Shepard was being manipulated by anyone or anything, nor did I experience anything that made me question whether Shepard was indoctrinated. My Shepard was a good soldier, a honest man with principles and a strong affection for TIM and his ideas.

In fact, when I played ME2 I agreed with TIM almost always. He was a good man with the right idea. It was such a shame to see TIM being brought down to such a low level of cliche cardboard-cutout villainry. He did not deserve this BioWare!  TIM was awesome, but ME3 made him look like a stupid idiot and basically just Saren 2.0. 


Anyway, I'm the player, I want Shepard to win, therefor I do what I think is necessary to win. How does that even come close to me being a reaper trying to indoctrinate Shepard?

Oh and by the way, just for the record, ME3 got rid of those red Renegade eyes. My Shepard had red eyes in ME2, but when I started ME3 he looked quite normal and didn't get his red eyes back. How do you explain that with your silly "we players are the reapers and renegade = indoctrination" theory?

[masster blaster]

So any new's on HellishFiend and Turbo's videos? Also when is CleverNoob going to release his next video on IT, and Freddy's video too.

[TSA_383]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

That's because in a way TIM is indeed your father. He rebuild you and provided the tech to rebuild you. Reaper tech? Who knows. I think it very well could be that TIM indeed used reaper tech to rebuild Shepard. Not to mention that Renegade Shepard in ME2 has exactly the same eyes, only red instead of blue.

The circles on the red eyes are the other way up, so it's not Shep's implants showing through.

Uhh wha? What are you talking about? Can you show this in a picture?

Anyway, it probably isn't indoctrination either. Probably just BioWare cutting corners by simply re-using TIM's eyes and re-using those eyes to make them look like Shepard's implants are showing through (because you know, Shepard's organic parts are slowly burning away first).

I can confirm that it's an entirely new texture to show reaper implants in the eyes
If that's not a dead giveaway I don't know what is...

[RavenEyry]

Um, that picture of Shep betraying Mordin, isn't that the exact camera angle from when Saren betrays Nihlus?

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Hanar read this please, and tell me Shepard does not do these things if we tell Shepard to do so, in which case. We are the Reapers telling Shepard what to do in ME3. In the past we were Shepard's little voice telling Shepard what to do, but Now we are the Reapers filling Shepard with doubt ( Paragon), and making Shepard betray his/her friends (renegade).

Also Hanar like you said. If renegade Shepard has tim's eyes only red. Does that mean Shepard is becoming an Indoctrinated person under the Reapers infulence ( and I mean usas the Reapers in ME3 because we tell Sheaprd what to do, and not many people reailze that Bioware could have let us Indcotrinated Sheaprd withour even knowing we were playing as the Reapers Indoctrinating Shepard.).

You guys are insane. Shepard is our character (to some degree) and we decide what he does and why he does it. We are nothing else but ourselves, the players. This whole "theory" is going way to far. This is just getting plain insane and borderline scary. 

I for one played Renegade Shepard almost all the way (some Paragon here and there) and never did I have the feeling my Shepard was being manipulated by anyone or anything, nor did I experience anything that made me question whether Shepard was indoctrinated. My Shepard was a good soldier, a honest man with principles and a strong affection for TIM and his ideas.

In fact, when I played ME2 I agreed with TIM almost always. He was a good man with the right idea. It was such a shame to see TIM being brought down to such a low level of cliche cardboard-cutout villainry. He did not deserve this BioWare!  TIM was awesome, but ME3 made him look like a stupid idiot and basically just Saren 2.0. 


Anyway, I'm the player, I want Shepard to win, therefor I do what I think is necessary to win. How does that even come close to me being a reaper trying to indoctrinate Shepard?

Oh and by the way, just for the record, ME3 got rid of those red Renegade eyes. My Shepard had red eyes in ME2, but when I started ME3 he looked quite normal and didn't get his red eyes back. How do you explain that with your silly "we players are the reapers and renegade = indoctrination" theory?

Well isn't it weird that we can kill almost every person Sheaprd help, and we do it with out hesitation. I mean look at Renegade Shepard. He kills Miordin from Behind. Just like Saren did to Nihlus. Also why does Shepard starting agree with TIM's crazy plain about Controling the Reapers, when he ask Hackett about TIM before we attack his base. Ands isn't it werid that Renegade Sheaprd kills Samaras Daughter even though Samara killed her self to let her daughter leave, yet Shepard kills her daughter. Also it's not carzy that we are the Reapers in ME3 because we are Shepard, adn what we learn from ME1-ME2 is the way we shape things, even though we don't fully understand what is happening.

[MaximizedAction]

TSA_383 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

That's because in a way TIM is indeed your father. He rebuild you and provided the tech to rebuild you. Reaper tech? Who knows. I think it very well could be that TIM indeed used reaper tech to rebuild Shepard. Not to mention that Renegade Shepard in ME2 has exactly the same eyes, only red instead of blue.

The circles on the red eyes are the other way up, so it's not Shep's implants showing through.

Uhh wha? What are you talking about? Can you show this in a picture?

Anyway, it probably isn't indoctrination either. Probably just BioWare cutting corners by simply re-using TIM's eyes and re-using those eyes to make them look like Shepard's implants are showing through (because you know, Shepard's organic parts are slowly burning away first).

I can confirm that it's an entirely new texture to show reaper implants in the eyes
If that's not a dead giveaway I don't know what is...

You mean these little husk tubes in the textures...?

[masster blaster]

RavenEyry wrote...

Um, that picture of Shep betraying Mordin, isn't that the exact camera angle from when Saren betrays Nihlus?

Yep, Saren did that, and yes it does, Mordin let his guard down because he trusted Shepard, but Shepard kills Mordin, which was exstrem. Since Shepard never killed his squad mates like that at all in all of the ME games.

[CoolioThane]

Hanar, the state of modern gaming is: we don't pay for a complete game. That's the sad fact. Get over it

[masster blaster]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Blaster, a lot of the points you just made are based off of glaring inaccuracies.

Shep betrays Mordin to ensure that the genophage remains uncured so he can receive Salarian support. Not only that, but it's a player made decision and there's even an option to convince Mordin to sabotage the cure b/c the Krogan aren't ready.

Secondly, there's never any indication of Shep "trusting" TIM after the confrontation on Mars. The closest Shep ever comes to this is when he acknowledges that TIM was right about the possibility of controlling the Reapers.

Lastly, not only does Shepard have a different design and coloration from TIM's (and only if playing renegade), these are a direct result of his implants and are present in ME2 if you play renegade.

EDIT: I accidentally said ME1 instead of ME2 in regards to the implants.

not really ME3 is the only time we can kill our squad with Renegade options, and ME1 we can kill Wrex, but not with Renegade because he save him that way too. And Zaeed we leave him to die in ME2, but Shepard did not Kill Zaeed with his own hands. And just because there is a war going on does not mean Shepard will never do this at all.

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

Well isn't it weird that we can kill almost every person Sheaprd help, and we do it with out hesitation. I mean look at Renegade Shepard. He kills Miordin from Behind. Just like Saren did to Nihlus.

it's not weird. There are plenty of RPG games that allow you to do this. Nothing new here. And Shepard had good reasons for shooting Mordin. Mordin was about to betray his own race, his own beliefs and his collegues just because he felt guilty. He was not acting straight. Shepard tried to talk him out of it, but failed. The only option was to accept failure and let Mordin do his thing, or if you really didn't like what was going on, shoot Mordin.

Personally I never had to shoot Mordin. In my game I managed to convince Mordin not to cure the genophage and run away back to the Salarians to help with the Crucible. Mordin became a Crucible asset in my game.

Also why does Shepard starting agree with TIM's crazy plain about Controling the Reapers, when he ask Hackett about TIM before we attack his base.

My Shepard always agreed with TIM about his genius plan to control the Reapers. That's why I gave TIM the Collector base in ME2. It's a shame ME3 didn't allow me to express my Shepard's alignment better. He would never have turned on Cerberus if it wasn't for Cerberus being indoctrinated. My Shepard mostly agreed with TIM in ME2. To bad we can't do that in ME3 (only occasionally does ME3 allow us to agree with TIM).

Control is not crazy. It's smart. Why waste all that potential technology if we can use it? There is power in control. There is wisdom in harnessing the strengths of your enemy.

Ands isn't it werid that Renegade Sheaprd kills Samaras Daughter even though Samara killed her self to let her daughter leave, yet Shepard kills her daughter.

No it isn't crazy. That daughter is potentially dangerous and should either be kept under close security, or be killed. Samara refused to do it, so now Shepard does it.

Also it's not carzy that we are the Reapers in ME3 because we are Shepard, adn what we learn from ME1-ME2 is the way we shape things, even though we don't fully understand what is happening.

We are not the Reapers in ME3.  We are Shepard. All decisions we make in Mass Effect are from Shepard's point of view. We play as Shepard and we make decisions as Shepard. It's what a ROLEPLAYING game is all about you know, playing as the role of your own character.

[masster blaster]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Blaster, a lot of the points you just made are based off of glaring inaccuracies.

Shep betrays Mordin to ensure that the genophage remains uncured so he can receive Salarian support. Not only that, but it's a player made decision and there's even an option to convince Mordin to sabotage the cure b/c the Krogan aren't ready.

Secondly, there's never any indication of Shep "trusting" TIM after the confrontation on Mars. The closest Shep ever comes to this is when he acknowledges that TIM was right about the possibility of controlling the Reapers.

Lastly, not only does Shepard have a different design and coloration from TIM's (and only if playing renegade), these are a direct result of his implants and are present in ME2 if you play renegade.

EDIT: I accidentally said ME1 instead of ME2 in regards to the implants.

But I could be right, and when Shepard has dreams about the kid. it's weird that red lights apper over teh kid, and we can here Reaper sounds in the Dream. Also why does the Catalyst take teh form of the child from Earth, and why did the child from Earth say you can't help me, and Anderson does not even ackologe Shepard talking to anybody in the Room.

[The Heretic of Time]

CoolioThane wrote...

Hanar, the state of modern gaming is: we don't pay for a complete game. That's the sad fact. Get over it

That might be true to a certain extent, but I have yet to see a company who has the guts to sell a game without a true ending, only to release the true ending later as paid DLC. If any company would do that they'd be in big trouble and a big sh*tstorm wil break loose. I doubt BioWare has the guts to do that. I think and hope BioWare is smarter than that.

We'll see, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. BioWare made it pretty damn clear that they're not going to change the endings and they aren't going to tell us if IT is canon or not. Deal with it and get over it.

[zigamortis]

@ heritic
And if we are misled to believe that a certain choice is the right one does that mean that we are really making the choice or being manipulated into making it?

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

masster blaster wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Blaster, a lot of the points you just made are based off of glaring inaccuracies.

Shep betrays Mordin to ensure that the genophage remains uncured so he can receive Salarian support. Not only that, but it's a player made decision and there's even an option to convince Mordin to sabotage the cure b/c the Krogan aren't ready.

Secondly, there's never any indication of Shep "trusting" TIM after the confrontation on Mars. The closest Shep ever comes to this is when he acknowledges that TIM was right about the possibility of controlling the Reapers.

Lastly, not only does Shepard have a different design and coloration from TIM's (and only if playing renegade), these are a direct result of his implants and are present in ME2 if you play renegade.

EDIT: I accidentally said ME1 instead of ME2 in regards to the implants.

not really ME3 is the only time we can kill our squad with Renegade options, and ME1 we can kill Wrex, but not with Renegade because he save him that way too. And Zaeed we leave him to die in ME2, but Shepard did not Kill Zaeed with his own hands. And just because there is a war going on does not mean Shepard will never do this at all.

This still doesn't link back to IT in any plausible way. Shepard's killing of Mordin was plot-justified and there's even an option to use a renegade speech-check to achieve the same goal under different circumstances. I'm really not sure what you're trying to get across with that last sentence. Could you perhaps elaborate?

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Well isn't it weird that we can kill almost every person Sheaprd help, and we do it with out hesitation. I mean look at Renegade Shepard. He kills Miordin from Behind. Just like Saren did to Nihlus.

it's not weird. There are plenty of RPG games that allow you to do this. Nothing new here. And Shepard had good reasons for shooting Mordin. Mordin was about to betray his own race, his own beliefs and his collegues just because he felt guilty. He was not acting straight. Shepard tried to talk him out of it, but failed. The only option was to accept failure and let Mordin do his thing, or if you really didn't like what was going on, shoot Mordin.

Personally I never had to shoot Mordin. In my game I managed to convince Mordin not to cure the genophage and run away back to the Salarians to help with the Crucible. Mordin became a Crucible asset in my game.

Also why does Shepard starting agree with TIM's crazy plain about Controling the Reapers, when he ask Hackett about TIM before we attack his base.

My Shepard always agreed with TIM about his genius plan to control the Reapers. That's why I gave TIM the Collector base in ME2. It's a shame ME3 didn't allow me to express my Shepard's alignment better. He would never have turned on Cerberus if it wasn't for Cerberus being indoctrinated. My Shepard mostly agreed with TIM in ME2. To bad we can't do that in ME3 (only occasionally does ME3 allow us to agree with TIM).

Control is not crazy. It's smart. Why waste all that potential technology if we can use it? There is power in control. There is wisdom in harnessing the strengths of your enemy.

Ands isn't it werid that Renegade Sheaprd kills Samaras Daughter even though Samara killed her self to let her daughter leave, yet Shepard kills her daughter.

No it isn't crazy. That daughter is potentially dangerous and should either be kept under close security, or be killed. Samara refused to do it, so now Shepard does it.

Also it's not carzy that we are the Reapers in ME3 because we are Shepard, adn what we learn from ME1-ME2 is the way we shape things, even though we don't fully understand what is happening.

We are not the Reapers in ME3.  We are Shepard. All decisions we make in Mass Effect are from Shepard's point of view. We play as Shepard and we make decisions as Shepard. It's what a ROLEPLAYING game is all about you know, playing as the role of your own character.

Look I am just saying it's plauible that Bioware could have done this, because no fan would think that by killing Shepard's friends is not a clear sign that Shepard is not okay, and it's weird that when Anderson tells Shepard that he was born in London again, when Shepard says " Really" Even though we just talked to Anderson on the Normandy before we attack the Reapers at Earth.

[Andromidius]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
You guys are insane.

Reported.  You're being outright rude and offensive now, and there's no reason for it at all.

It just shows how weak your position is - you can't argue a single point made against you, only insult and slander.

No-one waste any more time with this person.

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

But I could be right

That is most unlikely.

Shepard has dreams about the kid. it's weird that red lights apper over teh kid,

Game design decision, so that it's easier to spot him.

and we can here Reaper sounds in the Dream.

Aesthetics decisions. Trying to make the dream nightmarish. It also makes sense that we can hear Reaper sounds in the dreams, because it's a nightmare and the Reaper's are Shepard's bigger concern right now.

Also why does the Catalyst take teh form of the child from Earth,

Aesthetics. BioWare trying to be "deep" and "mystherious", without realizing how ridiculous it really is.

and why did the child from Earth say you can't help me,

Same. BioWare trying to be "deep" and "mysthetious", without realizing how ridiculous it really is.

and Anderson does not even ackologe Shepard talking to anybody in the Room.

Nothing new here. So many things in Mass Effect are never acknowledged by your squad members in the game. They usually just stand there waiting for Shepard whenever Shepard is talking to someone or doing something.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

We are not the Reapers in ME3.  We are Shepard. All decisions we make in Mass Effect are from Shepard's point of view. We play as Shepard and we make decisions as Shepard. It's what a ROLEPLAYING game is all about you know, playing as the role of your own character.

If that is your view, then you should be overjoyed if the Indoctrination theory turned out to be true because then Bioware took the concept of roleplaying a character to the next level.

A dream sequence in a roleplaying game is never quite right because the player will (almost) always know it is a dream even when the character he is playing does not. It is the ultimate seperation between player and character.

Now I dont agree that the player is the Reapers in ME3, but we are his guiding force. Now if one has to make a true dream sequence or Indoctrination as we theorize one has to fool not only Shepard but the player behind it. And taht is what Indoctrination does, it is not mind control, it makes it seem like the Reapers are right.

Also Shepard unlike many other RPG´s is not a blank slate character. No matter how much you as a person might agree with Control Shepard does not and in allmost all cases talks back against TIM for trying.

On that level i have to ask why you think Control will work? The Protheans failed and were Indoctrinated, TIM failed and was Indoctrinated, what makes you think you can do different? Because you are Shepard? Because you have the Crucible? Because the Catalyst told you you could? What experiences from the game are you basing that can on beyond what you are told in the last 10 minutes?

In fact what even makes you think the Reapers are capable of beeing controlled? The most advanced synthetic race of created by the current cycle are the geth and it took their creators 300 years to develop a viable weapon against them. 300 years to develop a weapon against a race they created themselves and the Reapers overid it and controlled the Geth in a matter of moments.

The Reapers are at least a billion years old and not even fully synthetic and we are not even the first cycle with a splinter group trying to control them.

What quite honestly beyond the Catalyst makes you think you can control them there at the end?

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:34 .

[Dancing-Krogan]

@ heretic.

So your saying that a company wouldn't release a true ending dlc? Have you ever heard of a little game named Fallout 3, with its Broken Steel paid dlc?

[TJBartlemus]

masster blaster wrote...

So any new's on HellishFiend and Turbo's videos? Also when is CleverNoob going to release his next video on IT, and Freddy's video too.

Well I've been talking to him and it sounds like he is really busy right now. I haven't heard from him for about a day now... 

edit - I was talking about hellish

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:35 .

[The Heretic of Time]

masster blaster wrote...

Look I am just saying it's plauible that Bioware could have done this,

No it isn't. From all the people in this thread grasping at straws, you are the worst. Man that is some grasping you have going on there.

because no fan would think that by killing Shepard's friends is not a clear sign that Shepard is not okay,

Shepard is in the middle of a galactic war, everyone depends on him, there is put a lot of pressure and stress on him, he has nightmares and other characters are constantly f***ing up around him, like Mordin making a U-turn and deciding to cure the genophage while we both agreed we shouldn't do that back in ME2, or Ashley turning her back on Shepard during the coup. OF COURSE SHEPARD IS NOT OKAY! Would you be okay if you were in such a situation and people around you put so much pressure on you? I certainly wouldn't. 

I think that in a way, Renegade Shepard is more natural and more humane than Paragon Shepard is. Paragon Shepard is creepily optimistic and smooth for such a dire situation.

Anyway, NOTHING of all this points at indoctrination. There are many other explanations far more obvious, dare more likely and far more valid than "OMG INDOCTRINATION".

and it's weird that when Anderson tells Shepard that he was born in London again, when Shepard says " Really" Even though we just talked to Anderson on the Normandy before we attack the Reapers at Earth.

Yeah because it's SO WEIRD to just forget things once in a while, especially when you're completely beaten up and suffer under a lot of blood loss.<_< Come on man, don't you see how insanely hard you're grasping at straws here?

[masster blaster]

look I was trying to say We the PLAYER are the Indoctrinating Shepard. If we play Paragon Shepard we are filling Shepard with doubt about winning the War, and if we play Renegade Shepard we are making Shepard betray his friends, and are putting everything aside just like Saren did. Also Joker was orders by Anderson to watch out for Shepard. In which case could mean that if Shepard is acting strange which Shepard is a Renegade, then it's possible that Renegade Shepard is sub coming to the Reapers ways, and Paragon Shepard is feeling that he/she can not win this war, all because of one child dying on Earth.

Also when you look at it hasn't Shepard's friends always been there for Shepard, and at the final battle they leave Shepard because he order them too.Oh and it's funny that Harby could have killed Shepard's friends right there, but did not in high EMS. Also why let Shepard live? It makes no sense to do so if Shepard is going to kill them, unless they have plains for Shepard. Then later we kill Anderson the only person who was Shepard's mentor, and last friend that could have change everything if the was with us. It's also makes you wonder that Shepard is lost with out his/her squad once you are ALONE.

So in my case the Reapers want to kill Shepard's old friends so that they won't be there for Shepard, but when Shepard is trying to get his squad/LI out of the battle in the Conduit run harby just looks at Shepard. Then let's the Normandy go without attacking it. Then Harby says something that we do not understand, and it's not just some random noise because we can here US at the end of the Harby's last words to Shepard.

[masster blaster]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Look I am just saying it's plauible that Bioware could have done this,

No it isn't. From all the people in this thread grasping at straws, you are the worst. Man that is some grasping you have going on there.

because no fan would think that by killing Shepard's friends is not a clear sign that Shepard is not okay,

Shepard is in the middle of a galactic war, everyone depends on him, there is put a lot of pressure and stress on him, he has nightmares and other characters are constantly f***ing up around him, like Mordin making a U-turn and deciding to cure the genophage while we both agreed we shouldn't do that back in ME2, or Ashley turning her back on Shepard during the coup. OF COURSE SHEPARD IS NOT OKAY! Would you be okay if you were in such a situation and people around you put so much pressure on you? I certainly wouldn't. 

I think that in a way, Renegade Shepard is more natural and more humane than Paragon Shepard is. Paragon Shepard is creepily optimistic and smooth for such a dire situation.

Anyway, NOTHING of all this points at indoctrination. There are many other explanations far more obvious, dare more likely and far more valid than "OMG INDOCTRINATION".

and it's weird that when Anderson tells Shepard that he was born in London again, when Shepard says " Really" Even though we just talked to Anderson on the Normandy before we attack the Reapers at Earth.

Yeah because it's SO WEIRD to just forget things once in a while, especially when you're completely beaten up and suffer under a lot of blood loss.<_< Come on man, don't you see how insanely hard you're grasping at straws here?

No I am not and But you haven't ANSWERD MY QUESTION. WHY LET SHEPARD LIVE.