55528 réponses à ce sujet

[iiNOMADii]

RoboticWays wrote...

There are compelling arguments to both sides, But there is no way we will know for sure. I respect all of you and your opinions. But the IT will never be dismissed, nor will it ever be confirmed. All im saying is, Im holding to my opinion because i believe it is rational, (Although you can't really approach ME rationally with all the space magic, i know) and because i dont want to see the end to all of the races i've interacted with. (You really think if you were indoctrinated that your final choice would matter? IT would mean the obliteration of this cycle, and a victory for the next cycle, with the Yahg and Raloi as the front runners.. which means the end of everything i've played for.)

As others have said, I don't think you understand IT sufficiently enough to debate it properly. 

IT states that everything happened after the beam knockout was in Shep's head, and not in reality.  His "final choice" is an inner struggle to resist Indoctrination or to succumb to it, so it would absolutely matter. 

Also, it doesn't mean the obliteration of the cycle at all, it merely continues shortly after the beam knockout, with allied forces still in tact and the crucible still in existance but not yet used.  There are therefore many possibilites remaining once retaining conciousness.  The current cycle still very much exists.

[RavenEyry]

RoboticWays wrote...

So many responses, I never played the Arrival DLC so i was unaware of that. And if he was indoctrinated, then he was forced as a puppet by the Reapers to open the Citadel, and activate the crucible? If he were and indoctrinated puppet,he would side with TIM and back him up throughout the game.

RavenEyry wrote...
No where in the theory has it ever said
Shepard is indoctrinated, just that the end is a representation of
Shepards mental battle with the forces attempting to indoctrinate them.

[Simon_Says]

Robotic, you missed a very important fact about indoctrination as presented in ME.

It's not mind control. Huskification allows for mind control. No, indoctrination is inception. i.e. Plant ideas, watch them grow to redefine or destroy a person.

As someone said so eloquently long ago (sorry that I've forgotten who it was), "Indoctrination doesn't make you do terrible things. It makes you want to do them."

[RoboticWays]

Well anyways, I'm gonna go play MP on the xbox, It's the only thing that can satisfy me until i get a SP DLC.

[Priss Blackburne]

RoboticWays wrote...

So many responses, I never played the Arrival DLC so i was unaware of that. And if he was indoctrinated, then he was forced as a puppet by the Reapers to open the Citadel, and activate the crucible? If he were and indoctrinated puppet,he would side with TIM and back him up throughout the game.

Well IT is about the fighting of indoctrination. Shepard isn't indoctrinated until you make a choice at the end. Control, synthesis is joining the reapers and becoming indoctrinated. Destroy/refusal is defying the reaper control over you. Up until that moment Shepard is still in control. The only thing the reapers can do to shepard is cause him/her to hear voices and see shadows and hallucinations. Bringing images from Shepards past to use against him/her.

[TJBartlemus]

RoboticWays wrote...

So many responses, I never played the Arrival DLC so i was unaware of that. And if he was indoctrinated, then he was forced as a puppet by the Reapers to open the Citadel, and activate the crucible? If he were and indoctrinated puppet,he would side with TIM and back him up throughout the game.

Well if you don't like the full on IT, then try the Waking Nightmare Theory: The Extended Cut. It's almost like an inbetween for IT and literalists. 

[ThisOneIsPunny]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

• Citadel at the climax of ME1 (Sovereign was dry humping the tower right above your head, remember?)

Lol. How did I not notice that?? Jk. 

I like to remember it as that one time Sovereign exploded and nearly crushed me with his gigantic little toe.
Which remnds me, weren't the keepers partly responsible for the amount of unaccounted salvaging(among looters and Cerberus) of Sovereign's little bits that rained down into the wards etc? The Citadel sure is calm and peaceful...

[smokingotter1]

RoboticWays wrote...

So many responses, I never played the Arrival DLC so i was unaware of that. And if he was indoctrinated, then he was forced as a puppet by the Reapers to open the Citadel, and activate the crucible? If he were and indoctrinated puppet,he would side with TIM and back him up throughout the game.

Here it is incase you don't want to play arrival. Shepard meets object Rho, if you're fast with the start/stop you can catch the white halo. It starts at 7:00

Video:


What do you think?

[TJBartlemus]

As Byne put it. "To get to the candy in a pinata you destroy it. Not control or merge with it."

[RoboticWays]

iiNOMADii wrote...

RoboticWays wrote...

There are compelling arguments to both sides, But there is no way we will know for sure. I respect all of you and your opinions. But the IT will never be dismissed, nor will it ever be confirmed. All im saying is, Im holding to my opinion because i believe it is rational, (Although you can't really approach ME rationally with all the space magic, i know) and because i dont want to see the end to all of the races i've interacted with. (You really think if you were indoctrinated that your final choice would matter? IT would mean the obliteration of this cycle, and a victory for the next cycle, with the Yahg and Raloi as the front runners.. which means the end of everything i've played for.)

As others have said, I don't think you understand IT sufficiently enough to debate it properly. 

IT states that everything happened after the beam knockout was in Shep's head, and not in reality.  His "final choice" is an inner struggle to resist Indoctrination or to succumb to it, so it would absolutely matter. 

Also, it doesn't mean the obliteration of the cycle at all, it merely continues shortly after the beam knockout, with allied forces still in tact and the crucible still in existance but not yet used.  There are therefore many possibilites remaining once retaining conciousness.  The current cycle still very much exists.

See, its never been explained to me like this. But this theory would rely heavily on a ME4, which BW has already stated ME3 is the end of the journey of Shepard. as much as i would like to believe this, I think it's just people looking for answers because the original ending is terrible.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

RoboticWays wrote...

So many responses, I never played the Arrival DLC so i was unaware of that. And if he was indoctrinated, then he was forced as a puppet by the Reapers to open the Citadel, and activate the crucible? If he were and indoctrinated puppet,he would side with TIM and back him up throughout the game.

No you misunderstand the Indoctrination theory I think.

Shepard is not Indoctrinated yet, he is undergoing the process towards Indoctrination.

The events on Earth is the breaking point. Essentially under the theory everything Shepard sees after the beam is a hallucination in his mind brought on by him fighting the Indoctrination. TIM is first agressive aprt of the Indoctrination as the Reapers try to forcefully turn Shepard over and the choice is the trick part as Shepard has resisted the initial assult and now they have to trick his mind into agreeing with the Reaper philophy on his own.

Destroy represents resistance, Shepard casting aside Indoctrination and holding firm to his beliefs.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 13 juillet 2012 - 08:20 .

[RavenEyry]

Because it always makes me smile, I'd like to remind everyone that destroy is quite literally the right option.

[Priss Blackburne]

RoboticWays wrote...

iiNOMADii wrote...

RoboticWays wrote...

There are compelling arguments to both sides, But there is no way we will know for sure. I respect all of you and your opinions. But the IT will never be dismissed, nor will it ever be confirmed. All im saying is, Im holding to my opinion because i believe it is rational, (Although you can't really approach ME rationally with all the space magic, i know) and because i dont want to see the end to all of the races i've interacted with. (You really think if you were indoctrinated that your final choice would matter? IT would mean the obliteration of this cycle, and a victory for the next cycle, with the Yahg and Raloi as the front runners.. which means the end of everything i've played for.)

As others have said, I don't think you understand IT sufficiently enough to debate it properly. 

IT states that everything happened after the beam knockout was in Shep's head, and not in reality.  His "final choice" is an inner struggle to resist Indoctrination or to succumb to it, so it would absolutely matter. 

Also, it doesn't mean the obliteration of the cycle at all, it merely continues shortly after the beam knockout, with allied forces still in tact and the crucible still in existance but not yet used.  There are therefore many possibilites remaining once retaining conciousness.  The current cycle still very much exists.

See, its never been explained to me like this. But this theory would rely heavily on a ME4, which BW has already stated ME3 is the end of the journey of Shepard. as much as i would like to believe this, I think it's just people looking for answers because the original ending is terrible.

yeah I don't believe they would have Shepard in the 4th one. I don't really want Shepard in the fourth one really. I do think they might add DLC for the third one setting up the forth one in the way Arrival sets up Mass effect 3.

[KevShep]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

RoboticWays wrote...

So many responses, I never played the Arrival DLC so i was unaware of that. And if he was indoctrinated, then he was forced as a puppet by the Reapers to open the Citadel, and activate the crucible? If he were and indoctrinated puppet,he would side with TIM and back him up throughout the game.

No you misunderstand the Indoctrination theory I think.

Shepard is not Indoctrinated yet, he is undergoing the process towards Indoctrination.

The events on Earth is the breaking point. Essentially under the etjory everything Shepard sees after the beam is a hallucination in his mind brought on by him fighting the Indoctrination. TIM is first agressive aprt of the Indoctrination as the Reapers try to forcefully turn Shepard over and the choice is the trick part as Shepard has resisted the initial assult and now they have to trick his mind into agreeing with the Reaper philophy on their own.

Destroy represents resistance, Shepard casting aside Indoctrination and holding firm to his beliefs.

Weird!

[ThisOneIsPunny]

RavenEyry wrote...

Because it always makes me smile, I'd like to remind everyone that destroy is quite literally the right option.

So what you're saying is that destroy is a step in....

the right direction

[Priss Blackburne]

KevShep wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

RoboticWays wrote...

So many responses, I never played the Arrival DLC so i was unaware of that. And if he was indoctrinated, then he was forced as a puppet by the Reapers to open the Citadel, and activate the crucible? If he were and indoctrinated puppet,he would side with TIM and back him up throughout the game.

No you misunderstand the Indoctrination theory I think.

Shepard is not Indoctrinated yet, he is undergoing the process towards Indoctrination.

The events on Earth is the breaking point. Essentially under the etjory everything Shepard sees after the beam is a hallucination in his mind brought on by him fighting the Indoctrination. TIM is first agressive aprt of the Indoctrination as the Reapers try to forcefully turn Shepard over and the choice is the trick part as Shepard has resisted the initial assult and now they have to trick his mind into agreeing with the Reaper philophy on their own.

Destroy represents resistance, Shepard casting aside Indoctrination and holding firm to his beliefs.

Weird!

wait I didn't know the beams originated from the area "the Arrival" dlc is? that's interesting.

[RavenEyry]

Notice they did not fix the incorrect explosion order in EC even though it was a fairly well known error. Along with the many other hints to the unreality of the ending events.

[RavenEyry]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Because it always makes me smile, I'd like to remind everyone that destroy is quite literally the right option.

So what you're saying is that destroy is a step in....

the right direction

YEAAAAAHHHHH!!!

[iiNOMADii]

RoboticWays wrote...

iiNOMADii wrote...

RoboticWays wrote...

There are compelling arguments to both sides, But there is no way we will know for sure. I respect all of you and your opinions. But the IT will never be dismissed, nor will it ever be confirmed. All im saying is, Im holding to my opinion because i believe it is rational, (Although you can't really approach ME rationally with all the space magic, i know) and because i dont want to see the end to all of the races i've interacted with. (You really think if you were indoctrinated that your final choice would matter? IT would mean the obliteration of this cycle, and a victory for the next cycle, with the Yahg and Raloi as the front runners.. which means the end of everything i've played for.)

As others have said, I don't think you understand IT sufficiently enough to debate it properly. 

IT states that everything happened after the beam knockout was in Shep's head, and not in reality.  His "final choice" is an inner struggle to resist Indoctrination or to succumb to it, so it would absolutely matter. 

Also, it doesn't mean the obliteration of the cycle at all, it merely continues shortly after the beam knockout, with allied forces still in tact and the crucible still in existance but not yet used.  There are therefore many possibilites remaining once retaining conciousness.  The current cycle still very much exists.

See, its never been explained to me like this. But this theory would rely heavily on a ME4, which BW has already stated ME3 is the end of the journey of Shepard. as much as i would like to believe this, I think it's just people looking for answers because the original ending is terrible.

I think a DLC would be sufficient, but I am with you in thinking that this is, at this point, unlikely to happen.  I mean IT is really interesting and fun to talk about, but personally I think the idea for it was scrapped along with Bioware's plans to put in gameplay of an indoctrinated Shep, which explains all of the evidence laying around for IT.

Still, I can hope for something better than the terrible endings we recieved and for a miracle IT confirmation in any form by Bioware, as unlikely as it currently seems.

[TJBartlemus]

RavenEyry wrote...

Notice they did not fix the incorrect explosion order in EC even though it was a fairly well known error. Along with the many other hints to the unreality of the ending events.

What...like the mystery of the gun? That is widely known yet still not fixed.

[TJBartlemus]

As the dust settles in the IT thread, and the anti-It'ers have left, the thread becomes much slower. :'(

[RavenEyry]

TJBartlemus wrote...
What...like the mystery of the gun? That is widely known yet still not fixed.

And the human '1M1' symbol being in a place no organic has been before. And the breath scene continues to look and sound like London.

[HellishFiend]

TJBartlemus wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Notice they did not fix the incorrect explosion order in EC even though it was a fairly well known error. Along with the many other hints to the unreality of the ending events.

What...like the mystery of the gun? That is widely known yet still not fixed.

I'm not sure why anyone would consider that an error. One does not just start an explosion from the wrong place in a full motion video. Those videos have to go through so many quality checks that there is probably an infinitesimally small chance that it was not only an accident but also just so happens to originate from where The Arrival took place.

It was intentional. The fact that it is still in the EC is further indication of that. 

[ThisOneIsPunny]

RavenEyry wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...
What...like the mystery of the gun? That is widely known yet still not fixed.

And the human '1M1' symbol being in a place no organic has been before. And the breath scene continues to look and sound like London.

Also the reflection of trees on the ramps in the decision chamber.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

bsn posting hates me, brb peppers going into my eyes.

Modifié par ThisOneIsPunny, 13 juillet 2012 - 08:28 .