55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Lokanaiya]

Iconoclaste:

1. Dreams are important and they do matter, especially in Bioware games. But then, it's not like they've ever used them to indicate things that are very important to the story, like the fact that you're an amnesiac Sith Lord, or that you're the child of a murder god, or anything like that, right?

2. Because polls are really good indicators of what is true and what is not, right?

3. This has already been addressed multiple times in this and the previous thread. Moving on.

4. You didn't answer my question. If "literalist" and "non-ITer" are unacceptable, then what do we call you?

5. You know perfectly well what "taking the endings at face value" means.

[Rifneno]

Bioware, 2012

Fans: C'mon, we want answers! What happened in the end?
BW: Speculations 4 all!

Bioware, 2014

BW: We're coming out with a new game! Will you buy it?
Fans: Speculations 4 all!

[AlexKavern]

My question is... WHY?!

[Rosewind]

*Walks in takes one look and turns around and walks out again*

[MaximizedAction]

AlexKavern wrote...



My question is... WHY?!

A short one? Twisted Reaper logic.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 15 juillet 2012 - 03:59 .

[byne]

AlexKavern wrote...



My question is... WHY?!

You're assuming that control is paragon just because it is blue.

If that were the case, saving the Collector Base was paragon because it caused a blue explosion

Modifié par byne, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:02 .

[Iconoclaste]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Iconoclaste:

1. Dreams are important and they do matter, especially in Bioware games. But then, it's not like they've ever used them to indicate things that are very important to the story, like the fact that you're an amnesiac Sith Lord, or that you're the child of a murder god, or anything like that, right?

2. Because polls are really good indicators of what is true and what is not, right?

3. This has already been addressed multiple times in this and the previous thread. Moving on.

4. You didn't answer my question. If "literalist" and "non-ITer" are unacceptable, then what do we call you?

5. You know perfectly well what "taking the endings at face value" means.

Do you really believe that Bioware would expect players to play completely unrelated games to try to make sense out of this one? And what about all the newcomers to the whole franchise, that seem to enjoy multiplayer a lot, and not really care for the coherence of the endings? It seems clear that EA / Bioware are trying to focus more on the mp crowd than the sp for future games, as a lot of companies are aiming at that market too.

Polls are indicative of quantities, not qualification.

I'M a player, just that is enough and will not have anyone believe literalists or ITers are able or unable to think rationally.

[Edorian27]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Ignore him. He's usually full of crap anyway, this time is no exception.

1).Why? Dreams have internally consistent logic, meaning that a dream will actually make an effort not to contradict itself in a lucid dream state. When a dream contradicts itself you wake up. Why would Shepard NOT dream about Hackett saying this?

There's also the business explanation that the EC was intended to give more weight to a literal interpretation, filling in plot holes to make those natives who weren't happy with the endings as is to be a bit less restless, so basically, fanservice.

2).Because the fans asked, Shepard asked, and lies/bull**** mixed with partial truths are cheap?

3).Fanservice again, and Shepard gets a fully choroeographed dream sequence! Really, have you listened to some of those? The Control one is just disturbing and the Synthesis one is just literally unbelieveably saccharine.

Waking hallucination is the current explanation, showing that Shepard is losing his grip on reality the closer he gets to the beam. See either my ending script in my sig for an early version of this, or seek out TJBartelmus.

Thank you & UltimateTobi for your efforts 


1) It doesn't feel like a dream. Shep is in that slow-mo-dreamlike situation where he can barely set one foot before another. I belive the thought of Hackett would not cross his mind, as he is too caught in the scene.
Also, the design of the Hackett-Scene resembles the reality look, not the dream state look.

Sure it is open to interpreation, but if I had to guess, it's a reality scene.

2) But lies/bull**** where one reason as how Shepard could discover something is wrong with the whole situation. Now, as it makes more sense in its own weird logic, this isn't the case.

3) Yeah, basically fanservice is the way to explain the EC. However, as to how BW intended the endings to be, I'm not sure anymore.

Dam0299 wrote...

You have to remember  while dragon age 2 was a really ambiguous ending, (hawke disappeared and unheard of) its also having a sequel which allows it to be ambiguous as it is supposed to be answered then. ME3 is supposed to be the end of Shepards tale entirely.

I didn't mind the ending being ambiguous, I just hated that whatever you decide you have to kill Templars and Mages alike.. where are the choices there? But thats off topic here...

UltimatTobi wrote... 

That might be. But he said someone, not Shepard. And if need to take that scene at face value, we also need to take his statement, that >someone< made it, at face value.

Hmm, but is there much room for interpretation? Who if not Shepard should have made it, when Hammer was down and Sheps companions flew away to live happily ever after? He even hails Shepard in the TIM-Room on citadel, not Anderson who would have been the higher ranking officer, so I belive the only possible interpretation is he knew it was Shepard.

Think about it. The more information you give, the more the other one trusts you. BW served both, literalists and theorists. We got more "closure" from the literal point of view. BUT, that plays in our favor, the Catalyst is more obviously grasping at Shep's faith/believe. The Catalyst also talks more positively about Control, and even more about Synthesis. Destroy is still the worst choice in Catalyst's POV.

You have a point here. It makes sense for the catalyst to make Shep belive in the alternatives he offers. Still, the more consistent his logic gets, the less likely it is that BW intended IT.
At least the EC gives us an alternative as to what the Starchild is other than an Indoctrination attempt. Would BW invent and present this alternative if IT was intended?

I tried my best, I am not good at explaining, but I know the feeling of being diappointed. I was, after playing EC. 

 

Thank you! Anyway, I'm thinking of reinstalling the game without EC, where IT works perfectly and make it my ending... :innocent:

[SwiftSlash]

Anyone else notice this thread got pinned? Sorry if I'm late to that.

[byne]

SwiftSlash wrote...

Anyone else notice this thread got pinned? Sorry if I'm late to that.

Huh, I didnt notice that. I always come here from just typing a W into my address bar and then clicking the first result that pops up.

Interesting.

[Edorian27]

AlexKavern wrote...



My question is... WHY?!

I belive it makes some kind of sense for the Catalyst. When you chose destroy he states that "the chaos will continue" so he relates Renegade to Chaos.

Control on the other hand represents Order for him, thus the colour.

Anyway, this explanation puts the fact of the (changed) coulours neither in favor of IT nor Non-IT, works in both models.

[paxxton]

SwiftSlash wrote...

Anyone else notice this thread got pinned? Sorry if I'm late to that.

Yes, you're right. I checked and it's pinned! I wonder when did that happen?

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:12 .

[RavenEyry]

I think control is the paragon option, but that doesn't make it right. My main Shep is paragon but still goes after Balak and Vido despite it causing the deaths of innocents because it was the right thing to do. Some paragon actions are lawful stupid rather than good.

[SwiftSlash]

Must be canon!
"...that was a joke."

Must have realized we aren't going anywhere.

[RavenEyry]

SwiftSlash wrote...

Anyone else notice this thread got pinned? Sorry if I'm late to that.

It wasn't an hour ago, this is all rather sudden. Should we feel proud? I'm gonna feel proud.

EDIT: It comes the day after someone was going to ask the moderators to lock the thread as well.

Modifié par RavenEyry, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:16 .

[Lokanaiya]

Huh, so we are. I wonder when and why it happened.

[Iconoclaste]

Edorian27 wrote...

I belive it makes some kind of sense for the Catalyst. When you chose destroy he states that "the chaos will continue" so he relates Renegade to Chaos.

Control on the other hand represents Order for him, thus the colour.

Anyway, this explanation puts the fact of the (changed) coulours neither in favor of IT nor Non-IT, works in both models.

At what other instance in the game the colors used in the scenery are indicative of the values related to the choices the player makes?

[Rosewind]

SwiftSlash wrote...

Anyone else notice this thread got pinned? Sorry if I'm late to that.

Wait what?

[dreamgazer]

AlexKavern wrote...



My question is... WHY?!

From a literal perspective:

Control is the option that doesn't hinge on obliterating the Reapers, and doesn't lead to the death of the geth and EDI.  It's a restrained action that demands a big sacrifice.  Hence, you could say it's "paragon".

Destroy involves an aggressive act, pulling the trigger on certain forms of life in order to ensure more concrete safety.  It requires an act of aggression, yet potentially leads to Shepard being alive.  Hence, you could say it's  "renegade". 

But, in all honesty, that paradigm of paragon and renegade effectively means zilch once you enter into the decision chamber, outside of a meta-mindscrew from BioWare.  In the literal context, it all hinges on individual interpretation of what fits their individual Shepard's agenda. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:17 .

[byne]

RavenEyry wrote...

SwiftSlash wrote...

Anyone else notice this thread got pinned? Sorry if I'm late to that.

It wasn't an hour ago, this is all rather sudden. Should we feel proud? I'm gonna feel proud.

EDIT: It comes the day after someone was going to ask the moderators to lock the thread as well.

To be fair, thats pretty much every  day.


Edit: Although, are we certain it happened recently?

Because I remember the few times when I've tried to find this thread via going through the forum menu, it always took me a second to see the thread, because it was closer to the top than I expected it to be. I dont think I ever bothered seeing if it was stickied, but I recall it being closer to the top than I thought was usual

Modifié par byne, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:20 .

[CoolioThane]

They noticed the thread has slowed down, so pinned it to get us talking again

[paxxton]

RavenEyry wrote...

SwiftSlash wrote...

Anyone else notice this thread got pinned? Sorry if I'm late to that.

It wasn't an hour ago, this is all rather sudden. Should we feel proud? I'm gonna feel proud.

EDIT: It comes the day after someone was going to ask the moderators to lock the thread as well.

It coincided with us finding the hidden meanings behind things seen in the dreams. Are we up to discovering something?

Modifié par paxxton, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:25 .

[Rosewind]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Huh, so we are. I wonder when and why it happened.

Suprised it happen at all with how many times we go off topic

[MaximizedAction]

byne wrote...

SwiftSlash wrote...

Anyone else notice this thread got pinned? Sorry if I'm late to that.

Huh, I didnt notice that. I always come here from just typing a W into my address bar and then clicking the first result that pops up.

Interesting.

Da hell...why? It's not like the thread needs it, since it's among the first two pages, anyway...but still...not bad for a 'fan-made' theory.

Maybe some mod made a mistake? But then, that should be noticed within minutes by someone else.

Still not bad for something that did not profit from yesterday's panel. Hmmm..moar speculations for everyone!

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .

[RavenEyry]

paxxton wrote...

It coincided with us finding the hidden meanings behind things seen in the dreams. Are we up to discovering something?

"Yes! They finally noticed how guilty Shep is about the loss of good furniture, pin that thread!"