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[dmay7]

"Keepers don't fear the Reapers, nor does Shepards self-inflicted pain (we can be like they are). Come on Tali (Don't fear the Reapers), Baby take my hand (Don't fear the Reapers), We'll be able to fly (Don't fear the Reapers), Baby I'm your man!"

[Xavendithas]

byne wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

Anything new and exciting this evening?

Priestly started a poll on the Hold the Line forums asking if people believed in IT.

Thats fairly exciting.

Wow, and nearly 72% are in favor of IT. I thought the HLT folks were of the 'the endings need to be rewritten' persuasion.

[Rifneno]

byne wrote...

-snip-

BTW, it got lost in how fast this thread moves but...  trusting the Architect?  Really?

[byne]

dmay7 wrote...

"Keepers don't fear the Reapers, nor does Shepards self-inflicted pain (we can be like they are). Come on Tali (Don't fear the Reapers), Baby take my hand (Don't fear the Reapers), We'll be able to fly (Don't fear the Reapers), Baby I'm your man!"

Interestingly, as I was driving home from the midnight launch of ME3, the 70s station played Don't Fear the Reaper.

I still dont know if it was just a wild coincidence or if they did it on purpose, but it was pretty awesome.

[RaidShock]

Destructorlio wrote...
What do you mean? Shouldn't we be hoping that IT is true, since it's the only ending that makes any sense?

I just hope they aren't deciding to implement it now. I tend to believe IT is not what the developers' had in mind, but if it was and was just somewhat sloppily implemented, I can be okay with that. As long as IT was always the plan. If they are retconning and implementing IT now, that just cheapens everything in my opinion.

[Rifneno]

RaidShock wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...
What do you mean? Shouldn't we be hoping that IT is true, since it's the only ending that makes any sense?

I just hope they aren't deciding to implement it now. I tend to believe IT is not what the developers' had in mind, but if it was and was just somewhat sloppily implemented, I can be okay with that. As long as IT was always the plan. If they are retconning and implementing IT now, that just cheapens everything in my opinion.

Sloppy how?  Like they didn't write "indoctrination!" on a sign and beat you unconscious with it?  Because that's pretty much the only thing they could've done to make it more obvious.

[byne]

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

-snip-

BTW, it got lost in how fast this thread moves but...  trusting the Architect?  Really?

Yeah, dont really know why, but I did trust him.

Anyways, Rifneno, I wanted to ask you: did they ever give a reason for why Anders changed so much between Awakening and DA2, other than having Justice in him?

I mean, when I had him with me talking to Wynne in Amaranthine, he said the Circle breaking away from the Chantry was crazy, and something that shouldnt happen, and then in DA2 he goes and blows up the Chantry specifically to try and accomplish the goal of breaking away.

Did they just completely rewrite his character for no real reason?

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

[dmay7]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Shepards dream sequence.
WRONG LINK
 

ACTUAL LINK www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par dmay7, 23 mai 2012 - 01:19 .

[dmay7]

wrong link, sorry

Modifié par dmay7, 23 mai 2012 - 01:18 .

[HellishFiend]

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm, the Rannoch destroyer was probably more stable in that since it was an entire fleet using KINETIC weapons which we know their shields are more effective against,and that likely a goodly sized chunk of the fleet had to hit it dead on despite shooting from orbit, while also keeping the Geth off their backs. So yeah plausible.

THe Hades Cannons I don't think were destroyers, but I suppose the argument could be made that Shepard was firing a projectile slow enough to pass their shield and then blew up with an excessive amount of force right under the bottom of their chassis. Either that or it was causin a chain reaction, or potentially could be from the Cain ripping the attached Hades Cannon from it's mounting, which could potentially kill the destroyer as well.

Conduit destroyer was taken out by two THANIX missiles remember, which we know are considerably more effective.

Except that Thanix cannons cause the damage they do because of their tremendous speed. Thanix missiles makes no sense. It's like throwing a handful of bullets at something and expecting it to do the same damage as a barrage from an AK-47.

If Thanix missiles really make no sense, as you say, maybe that's another sign that something is really wrong with the London/post-3rd-dream sequence.

And yes, the Hades Cannon is mounted on a destroyer. If you just look at it, you can plainly see it's a destroyer... 

[Rifneno]

byne wrote...

Yeah, dont really know why, but I did trust him.

Anyways, Rifneno, I wanted to ask you: did they ever give a reason for why Anders changed so much between Awakening and DA2, other than having Justice in him?

I mean, when I had him with me talking to Wynne in Amaranthine, he said the Circle breaking away from the Chantry was crazy, and something that shouldnt happen, and then in DA2 he goes and blows up the Chantry specifically to try and accomplish the goal of breaking away.

Did they just completely rewrite his character for no real reason?

Played Legacy?  Because it'll give you a... new perspective on Archy.

No, no reason for Anders' change besides Justice.  And no reason for Justice's change besides Anders.  Though Justice's change was much less stark than most think.  Justice was always extremely black-and-white and vengeful.  As you probably know since he turns on the Warden when siding with the Architect unless you pass a massive coercion check.  Not because his plan is incredibly terrible and he never explains disturbing parts like the clones he was making, but because "teh dead MUST be avenged!"

I think David Gaider actually admitted later on in an interview that using Anders was a bit of an ass pull and he just really loved the idea of using him for the role.  And that Orsino going coo-coo for cocoa puffs if you sided with him was just because they wanted a second boss battle for pro-mages too.  Which explains so much.  

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

dmay7 wrote...

wrong link, sorry

Oh, I know they're in the dreams, but what I'm saying is that, since it's not an official symptom of indoc. nor does it appear to be per se, should it not be used less leniantly, or at least more speculatively?

Modifié par Leonardo the Magnificent, 23 mai 2012 - 01:23 .

[Big G13]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Oily shadows are oily shadows. How a particular species perceives them is, imho, irrelevant.

[Xavendithas]

Was there ever any sort of consensus reached about what the object in the background of Shep's breath scene is?

[Xavendithas]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

wrong link, sorry

Oh, I know they're in the dreams, but what I'm saying is that, since it's not an official symptom of indoc. nor does it appear to be per se, should it not be used less leniantly, or at least more speculatively?

I dunno, I thought it was pretty cut and dry who and what she was referring to in that conversation.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Oily shadows are oily shadows. How a particular species perceives them is, imho, irrelevant.

But the Rachni have a completely different perception of things, being a part of a hive mind and communicating however they do. That, and they never actually saw oily shadows.

[dmay7]

Ya know, all this talk about IT, it makes me go back to the ending of Dead Space 2, where the final boss battle is...in Clarkes mind. Marker effects are also similar to Indoctrination.

[byne]

Rifneno wrote...

Played Legacy?  Because it'll give you a... new perspective on Archy.

No, no reason for Anders' change besides Justice.  And no reason for Justice's change besides Anders.  Though Justice's change was much less stark than most think.  Justice was always extremely black-and-white and vengeful.  As you probably know since he turns on the Warden when siding with the Architect unless you pass a massive coercion check.  Not because his plan is incredibly terrible and he never explains disturbing parts like the clones he was making, but because "teh dead MUST be avenged!"

I think David Gaider actually admitted later on in an interview that using Anders was a bit of an ass pull and he just really loved the idea of using him for the role.  And that Orsino going coo-coo for cocoa puffs if you sided with him was just because they wanted a second boss battle for pro-mages too.  Which explains so much.  

Well, I never really thought Justice changed that much. He was always against injustice, so obviously he'd be against the idea of the Circle. I just always thought Anders changed far too much. I loved Awakening Anders, but dont much care for DA2 Anders.

And I thought end-game bosses were too 'video-gamey' BioWare!

Orsino going crazy always pissed me off. At least Meredith has the excuse of being totally insane for turning on you if you side with her. Orsino just randomly decides blood magic is great for no real reason.

[HellishFiend]

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Oily shadows are oily shadows. How a particular species perceives them is, imho, irrelevant.

Right, the Rachni have some kind of sense that we probably cant even comprehend. Either that, or they simply perceive telepathic thought as a form of music. 

Also, the quote is "...songs the color of oily shadows."

If their definition of "songs" is telepathic thought, as I suspect, then they simply interpret that particular telepathic thought as an oily shadow. In that regard, Shepard probably would perceive those thoughts in a similar manner as the Rachni.

Modifié par HellishFiend, 23 mai 2012 - 01:28 .

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Xavendithas wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

wrong link, sorry

Oh, I know they're in the dreams, but what I'm saying is that, since it's not an official symptom of indoc. nor does it appear to be per se, should it not be used less leniantly, or at least more speculatively?

I dunno, I thought it was pretty cut and dry who and what she was referring to in that conversation.

Arguable. Never is it actually stated that the Rachni saw oily shadows, but rather that they heard sounds like oily shadows.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Modifié par Leonardo the Magnificent, 23 mai 2012 - 01:30 .

[HellishFiend]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...
 Arguable. Never is it actually stated that the Rachni saw oily shadows, but rather that they heard sounds like oily shadows.

See my post directly above yours. 

[byne]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

wrong link, sorry

Oh, I know they're in the dreams, but what I'm saying is that, since it's not an official symptom of indoc. nor does it appear to be per se, should it not be used less leniantly, or at least more speculatively?

I dunno, I thought it was pretty cut and dry who and what she was referring to in that conversation.

Arguable. Never is it actually stated that the Rachni saw oily shadows, but rather that they heard sounds like oily shadows.

Right, because as you said, rachni perceive things differently. What are we even arguing about?

[dmay7]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

wrong link, sorry

Oh, I know they're in the dreams, but what I'm saying is that, since it's not an official symptom of indoc. nor does it appear to be per se, should it not be used less leniantly, or at least more speculatively?

I dunno, I thought it was pretty cut and dry who and what she was referring to in that conversation.

Arguable. Never is it actually stated that the Rachni saw oily shadows, but rather that they heard sounds like oily shadows.

Simple creative foreshadowing, if IT is intended.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

HellishFiend wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Oily shadows are oily shadows. How a particular species perceives them is, imho, irrelevant.

Right, the Rachni have some kind of sense that we probably cant even comprehend. Either that, or they simply perceive telepathic thought as a form of music. 

Also, the quote is "...songs the color of oily shadows."

If their definition of "songs" is telepathic thought, as I suspect, then they simply interpret that particular telepathic thought as an oily shadow. In that regard, Shepard probably would regard those thoughts in a similar manner as the Rachni.

Actually, I think their definition of song is both verbal and telepathic, as the Queen laments how low and dull the music of the other organics are.