55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Iconoclaste]

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Do I really need to explain that two wrongs dont make a right, Rifneno?

It doesnt matter who I'm enslaving. The fact remains that I'm enslaving someone.

By that logic, we shouldn't kill them either.

No, I'm fine with killing them. They've killed countless trillions of people. They need to be stopped. I'm not fine with enslaving them though.

Partially because enslaving them seems to imply they get to work to redeem themselves, and redemption is not something the Reapers are deserving of.

The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.

Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form. That's why, from Bioware's perspective, the "destroy" option should not be seen as the "only valid one", as many players were reluctant to make that choice.

[Dwailing]

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...


Orly? That's...odd because I extrapolated my claim from a radio interview with Sam Hulick and two other composers of the soundtrack over at some classical music radio channel. At the end the interviewer gave her own thoughts on the ending and she outright said that she was a "suscriber of IT" -- even gave some arguments for it. So even someone who is very likely not an absolute gaming nerd knows about the theory...

Ah well, there goes another statistical mis-conclusion.

I have no idea what the percentages are like, to be honest. But if I had to guess, I would think it would skew in the direction of being uninformed, due to the large amount of casual gamers that play the game. 

Yeah, but BioWare might not BE developing for the casual gamers.  They've always said that they develop for the fans.  And the fans are the ones that come onto the forum and discuss the game.

[BansheeOwnage]

D.Sharrah wrote...

The thread got stickied?! Awesome!

@ Hellish: Very true. But still awesome.

Edit:  Go away for a couple of days to play Skyrim and try to do my part for the weekend OP and this happens...

So what is the significance of the thread being stickied?

[byne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

The thread got stickied?! Awesome!

@ Hellish: Very true. But still awesome.

Edit:  Go away for a couple of days to play Skyrim and try to do my part for the weekend OP and this happens...

So what is the significance of the thread being stickied?

It is now more sticky than it used to be!

[DJBare]

Interesting to see this thread as a sticky, and no I do not consider it to be a mistake by a moderator, this thread is too well known for it to be placed up by accident, seems Bioware might be dropping the hint "We're keeping our save files"; but I had built my hopes on the EC, so I'll reserve any hype from now on.

[FellishBeast]

HellishFiend wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

I always knew masster was a troll. xD

@Hellish: Slavery is alive and well, unfortunately. There was even a family in Orange County that had a little girl from another country as a slave. Or are you talking about it being condoned by the government?

Yes, hence the use of the term "civilizations". 

[RavenEyry]

Iconoclaste wrote...
The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.

No they still kill countless trillions. Not every single being is 'ascended'.

Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form.

That's very much debateable.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...


Orly? That's...odd because I extrapolated my claim from a radio interview with Sam Hulick and two other composers of the soundtrack over at some classical music radio channel. At the end the interviewer gave her own thoughts on the ending and she outright said that she was a "suscriber of IT" -- even gave some arguments for it. So even someone who is very likely not an absolute gaming nerd knows about the theory...

Ah well, there goes another statistical mis-conclusion.

I have no idea what the percentages are like, to be honest. But if I had to guess, I would think it would skew in the direction of being uninformed, due to the large amount of casual gamers that play the game. 

Yeah, but BioWare might not BE developing for the casual gamers.  They've always said that they develop for the fans.  And the fans are the ones that come onto the forum and discuss the game.

Oh, I never meant to imply that those percentages would impact their decisions regarding the the core plot. I personally believe the core plot was set in stone long ago, anyway. I'm simply referring to the amount of people that are or arent aware of IT. 

[Dwailing]

Iconoclaste wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Do I really need to explain that two wrongs dont make a right, Rifneno?

It doesnt matter who I'm enslaving. The fact remains that I'm enslaving someone.

By that logic, we shouldn't kill them either.

No, I'm fine with killing them. They've killed countless trillions of people. They need to be stopped. I'm not fine with enslaving them though.

Partially because enslaving them seems to imply they get to work to redeem themselves, and redemption is not something the Reapers are deserving of.

The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.

Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form. That's why, from Bioware's perspective, the "destroy" option should not be seen as the "only valid one", as many players were reluctant to make that choice.

But the races that were "ascended" aren't really alive anymore.  I don't care what anyone says, they're not.  Look at the colonist that you saw on the Collector base.  LOOK AT HER!  She was NOT alive anymore, not after being reduced to that sludge and put into the Reaper.  The best way we can honor the memory of the fallen is to DESTROY the abominations that they were used to create.

Edit: And I'll add one more thing.  I'm pretty certain that I would rather DIE than be turned into one of those THINGS.

Modifié par Dwailing, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:06 .

[byne]

Iconoclaste wrote...


The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.

Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form. That's why, from Bioware's perspective, the "destroy" option should not be seen as the "only valid one", as many players were reluctant to make that choice.

If that is the case, then killing the Proto-Reaper is a renegade action then, is it not?

[lex0r11]

Yep, keep cool for now guys, anything could be the reason.


For now let's stick to this:

[BansheeOwnage]

Iconoclaste wrote...

byne wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Do I really need to explain that two wrongs dont make a right, Rifneno?

It doesnt matter who I'm enslaving. The fact remains that I'm enslaving someone.

By that logic, we shouldn't kill them either.

No, I'm fine with killing them. They've killed countless trillions of people. They need to be stopped. I'm not fine with enslaving them though.

Partially because enslaving them seems to imply they get to work to redeem themselves, and redemption is not something the Reapers are deserving of.

The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.

Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form. That's why, from Bioware's perspective, the "destroy" option should not be seen as the "only valid one", as many players were reluctant to make that choice.

Uhhh... The main point of antagonists in any story is that they are wrong. The reapers do kill people. They do not ascend them. Just because a reaper says that you go ahead and believe it?
"You're... indoctrinated!" [/Anderson]
Seriously though, that scares me. A lot.

[FellishBeast]

RavenEyry wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...
The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.

No they still kill countless trillions. Not every single being is 'ascended'.

Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form.

That's very much debateable.

Well then that would apply to all Reaper troops. It's a bit late to stop killing them now.

Also, I'm pretty sure every person who has been "comprimised" by the Reapers usually tries to kill themself before it takes hold. They essentially die when they become "synthesized."

[byne]

lex0r11 wrote...

Yep, keep cool for now guys, anything could be the reason.


For now let's stick to this:

You guys have sunglasses?! STICKIED!

[ZerebusPrime]

byne wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

The thread got stickied?! Awesome!

@ Hellish: Very true. But still awesome.

Edit:  Go away for a couple of days to play Skyrim and try to do my part for the weekend OP and this happens...

So what is the significance of the thread being stickied?

It is now more sticky than it used to be!

And how.  I've tried three different soaps and it still won't come off...

I for one am hoping that IT pans out in some way positive in the long term.

[masster blaster]

So we got pinned. Awsome.

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...


The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.

Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form. That's why, from Bioware's perspective, the "destroy" option should not be seen as the "only valid one", as many players were reluctant to make that choice.

If that is the case, then killing the Proto-Reaper is a renegade action then, is it not?

You dont even have to poke holes in that by pointing out all the contradictions, such as killing the Proto-Reaper. The mere concept that a Reaper bears any semblance to the civilization that bore it is not even believable. 

Do people really think that the Human Reaper, or any of the Reapers for that matter, would want to participate in the "cycle" just because they've been successfully reaped? 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:06 .

[SwiftSlash]

Bringing it back to IT: did anyone notice the screaming howell noises from the dream, and from the final section of the conduit waddle in the decision chamber (very faintly)?

Also, were the whispers as loud during TIM's discussion pre EC?

Anther EC potential change, where there always growls after ever renegade/paragon persuasion completed successfully with TIM before?

[byne]

BansheeOwnage wrote...


Uhhh... The main point of antagonists in any story is that they are wrong. The reapers do kill people. They do not ascend them. Just because a reaper says that you go ahead and believe it?
"You're... indoctrinated!" [/Anderson]
Seriously though, that scares me. A lot.

Not exactly true. Lets take the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC as an example. In it, the protagonist is the Hurlock Vanguard, and the main antagonists are your DA:O companions. They're clearly the good guys, but they're still the antagonists.

[BansheeOwnage]

HellishFiend wrote...

byne wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...


The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.

Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form. That's why, from Bioware's perspective, the "destroy" option should not be seen as the "only valid one", as many players were reluctant to make that choice.

If that is the case, then killing the Proto-Reaper is a renegade action then, is it not?

You dont even have to poke holes in that by pointing out all the contradictions, such as killing the Proto-Reaper. The mere concept that a Reaper bears any semblance to the civilization that bore it is not even believable. 

Do people really think that the Human Reaper, or any of the Reapers for that matter, would want to participate in the "cycle" just because they've been successfully reaped? 

"Whatever race you came from - they're dead now. And now they can rest in peace."
And that was the paragon option...

[masster blaster]

Fellish I am not a troll. I was just saying we could do this and that is that.

[UltimateTobi]

I am back, and yes, we got stickied. I wonder why. Well, actually I don't want to know it. It's good though, gives faith and hope.

[paxxton]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

The thread got stickied?! Awesome!

@ Hellish: Very true. But still awesome.

Edit:  Go away for a couple of days to play Skyrim and try to do my part for the weekend OP and this happens...

So what is the significance of the thread being stickied?

Maybe IT's gotten a semi-official status.

[RavenEyry]

There are a lot of interesting really quiet noises slipped in. And some not so quiet.

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...


Uhhh... The main point of antagonists in any story is that they are wrong. The reapers do kill people. They do not ascend them. Just because a reaper says that you go ahead and believe it?
"You're... indoctrinated!" [/Anderson]
Seriously though, that scares me. A lot.

Not exactly true. Lets take the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC as an example. In it, the protagonist is the Hurlock Vanguard, and the main antagonists are your DA:O companions. They're clearly the good guys, but they're still the antagonists.

Good point. But I think you know what I mean. Most antagonists are bad guys. The reapers fall into that category.