Ce sujet est fermé
FellishBeast wrote...
Killing someone at least leaves them in a state of freedom. There is a distinction between shooting someone and cutting them up into little peices. One is efficient, the other is cruel.
The Reapers only kill those that are able to resist, and do so. Most civilians are taken "alive", whole colonies disappear "without a trace", up until Shepard destroys the Collector's base. The Reapers, by themselves, gather "dead bodies" in the Citadel, seemingly to make a "new Reaper", and since Shepard was revived by Cerberus, a less-than-Reaper-knowledge entity, with his mind "intact" despites the fact he was truly "dead", fills the gap between many that are "killed" by Reapers and their presence in the "collective mind".RavenEyry wrote...
No they still kill countless trillions. Not every single being is 'ascended'.Iconoclaste wrote...
The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.That's very much debateable.Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form.
Yeah, because killing the Reaper off is the Renegade option.BansheeOwnage wrote...
"Whatever race you came from - they're dead now. And now they can rest in peace."HellishFiend wrote...
byne wrote...
Iconoclaste wrote...
The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.
Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form. That's why, from Bioware's perspective, the "destroy" option should not be seen as the "only valid one", as many players were reluctant to make that choice.
If that is the case, then killing the Proto-Reaper is a renegade action then, is it not?
You dont even have to poke holes in that by pointing out all the contradictions, such as killing the Proto-Reaper. The mere concept that a Reaper bears any semblance to the civilization that bore it is not even believable.
Do people really think that the Human Reaper, or any of the Reapers for that matter, would want to participate in the "cycle" just because they've been successfully reaped?
And that was the paragon option...
From the mouth of the good Shepard themselves.BansheeOwnage wrote...
"Whatever race you came from - they're dead now. And now they can rest in peace."
And that was the paragon option...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
"Whatever race you came from - they're dead now. And now they can rest in peace."HellishFiend wrote...
You dont even have to poke holes in that by pointing out all the contradictions, such as killing the Proto-Reaper. The mere concept that a Reaper bears any semblance to the civilization that bore it is not even believable.
Do people really think that the Human Reaper, or any of the Reapers for that matter, would want to participate in the "cycle" just because they've been successfully reaped?
And that was the paragon option...
paxxton wrote...
Maybe IT's gotten a semi-official status.BansheeOwnage wrote...
So what is the significance of the thread being stickied?D.Sharrah wrote...
The thread got stickied?! Awesome!
@ Hellish: Very true. But still awesome.
Edit: Go away for a couple of days to play Skyrim and try to do my part for the weekend OP and this happens...
Iconoclaste wrote...
The Reapers only kill those that are able to resist, and do so. Most civilians are taken "alive", whole colonies disappear "without a trace", up until Shepard destroys the Collector's base. The Reapers, by themselves, gather "dead bodies" in the Citadel, seemingly to make a "new Reaper", and since Shepard was revived by Cerberus, a less-than-Reaper-knowledge entity, with his mind "intact" despites the fact he was truly "dead", fills the gap between many that are "killed" by Reapers and their presence in the "collective mind".
Let's not forget that, even by today's "standards", accidentally killing civilians at war is still accepted, if a "greater good" arises from it. I'm not saying I agree at all, but that's just an example of consensus going against principles for the sake of an objective : sacrifice some of the living to save the most. Star Trek uses the same motto.
Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:13 .
Like those fleeing shuttles?Iconoclaste wrote...
The Reapers only kill those that are able to resist, and do so.
masster blaster wrote...
Fellish I am not a troll. I was just saying we could do this and that is that.
UltimateTobi wrote...
Yeah, because killing the Reaper off is the Renegade option.BansheeOwnage wrote...
"Whatever race you came from - they're dead now. And now they can rest in peace."HellishFiend wrote...
byne wrote...
Iconoclaste wrote...
The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.
Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form. That's why, from Bioware's perspective, the "destroy" option should not be seen as the "only valid one", as many players were reluctant to make that choice.
If that is the case, then killing the Proto-Reaper is a renegade action then, is it not?
You dont even have to poke holes in that by pointing out all the contradictions, such as killing the Proto-Reaper. The mere concept that a Reaper bears any semblance to the civilization that bore it is not even believable.
Do people really think that the Human Reaper, or any of the Reapers for that matter, would want to participate in the "cycle" just because they've been successfully reaped?
And that was the paragon option...
Yeah, irony I hear you.byne wrote...
UltimateTobi wrote...
Yeah, because killing the Reaper off is the Renegade option.BansheeOwnage wrote...
"Whatever race you came from - they're dead now. And now they can rest in peace."HellishFiend wrote...
byne wrote...
Iconoclaste wrote...
The Reapers do not "kill people", they just "ascend" them into "Reaper form". They preserve their minds and memories, which Sovereign clearly illustrates. Shepard just becomes a seed of decision towards stopping the old stategy of the Reapers, but they still are "Reapers", colonies of thousands of minds, and we still have no clue as to how a single "Reaper decision" is made.
Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form. That's why, from Bioware's perspective, the "destroy" option should not be seen as the "only valid one", as many players were reluctant to make that choice.
If that is the case, then killing the Proto-Reaper is a renegade action then, is it not?
You dont even have to poke holes in that by pointing out all the contradictions, such as killing the Proto-Reaper. The mere concept that a Reaper bears any semblance to the civilization that bore it is not even believable.
Do people really think that the Human Reaper, or any of the Reapers for that matter, would want to participate in the "cycle" just because they've been successfully reaped?
And that was the paragon option...
Fun fact: If you pick the renegade option with that Reaper, Shepard tells it the organics are taking control this time, and it says "A philosophy reminiscent of the quarians. Observe the results of their efforts to maintain control."
Even a Reaper knows control is bull****.
paxxton wrote...
Here:D.Sharrah wrote...
Maximized: Nice avatar!
Thread: Is the ME Panel from SDCC on the interwebs, anywhere (leaving after posting this to go troll YouTube)?
http://www.newsarama...ent-future.html
If they really didn't plan for IT, the middle ground is that BioWare is increasingly appreciative for our theory. If they planned for IT, the pin is a wink.iiNOMADii wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Maybe IT's gotten a semi-official status.BansheeOwnage wrote...
So what is the significance of the thread being stickied?D.Sharrah wrote...
The thread got stickied?! Awesome!
@ Hellish: Very true. But still awesome.
Edit: Go away for a couple of days to play Skyrim and try to do my part for the weekend OP and this happens...
Stuff like this is a constant inner struggle for me. Is it because it's official or because they are just respecting our opinion and don't want to dash it down?
Modifié par paxxton, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:21 .
This is a two-sided argument : Shepard is, by definition, an "antagonist' and from the "Reaper collective", wether Shepard believes the Catalyst's arguments or not is irrelevant. Garrus told Shepard, at some point in the game, that the end will come as a decision implying "billions will die here to allow billions to live elsewhere". That points towards the heavy implications, and the decision at the end really hinges upon any player's beliefs.BansheeOwnage wrote...
Good point. But I think you know what I mean. Most antagonists are bad guys. The reapers fall into that category.byne wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Uhhh... The main point of antagonists in any story is that they are wrong. The reapers do kill people. They do not ascend them. Just because a reaper says that you go ahead and believe it?
"You're... indoctrinated!" [/Anderson]
Seriously though, that scares me. A lot.
Not exactly true. Lets take the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC as an example. In it, the protagonist is the Hurlock Vanguard, and the main antagonists are your DA:O companions. They're clearly the good guys, but they're still the antagonists.
HA! That's halarious! I forgot about that one (because I haven't picked the renegade option yetbyne wrote...
UltimateTobi wrote...
Yeah, because killing the Reaper off is the Renegade option.BansheeOwnage wrote...
"Whatever race you came from - they're dead now. And now they can rest in peace."
And that was the paragon option...
Fun fact: If you pick the renegade option with that Reaper, Shepard tells it the organics are taking control this time, and it says "A philosophy reminiscent of the quarians. Observe the results of their efforts to maintain control."
Even a Reaper knows control is bull****.
).
Well if you consider the choices, destroy is the only one that fits that bill.Iconoclaste wrote...
This is a two-sided argument : Shepard is, by definition, an "antagonist' and from the "Reaper collective", wether Shepard believes the Catalyst's arguments or not is irrelevant. Garrus told Shepard, at some point in the game, that the end will come as a decision implying "billions will die here to allow billions to live elsewhere". That points towards the heavy implications, and the decision at the end really hinges upon any player's beliefs.BansheeOwnage wrote...
Good point. But I think you know what I mean. Most antagonists are bad guys. The reapers fall into that category.byne wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Uhhh... The main point of antagonists in any story is that they are wrong. The reapers do kill people. They do not ascend them. Just because a reaper says that you go ahead and believe it?
"You're... indoctrinated!" [/Anderson]
Seriously though, that scares me. A lot.
Not exactly true. Lets take the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC as an example. In it, the protagonist is the Hurlock Vanguard, and the main antagonists are your DA:O companions. They're clearly the good guys, but they're still the antagonists.
Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:21 .
Beat me to it.BansheeOwnage wrote...
Well if you consider the choices, destroy is the only one that fits that bill.
paxxton wrote...
If they really didn't plan for IT, the middle ground is that BioWare is increasingly appreciative for our theory. If they planned for IT, the pin is a wink.iiNOMADii wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Maybe IT's gotten a semi-official status.BansheeOwnage wrote...
So what is the significance of the thread being stickied?D.Sharrah wrote...
The thread got stickied?! Awesome!
@ Hellish: Very true. But still awesome.
Edit: Go away for a couple of days to play Skyrim and try to do my part for the weekend OP and this happens...
Stuff like this is a constant inner struggle for me. Is it because it's official or because they are just respecting our opinion and don't want to dash it down?
No. Your topic ask a question, I discuss the validity of it, simple as that. You have no right to control the BSN, sir, or even to restrain respectful discussion about IT and its related topics. If you do not wish to discuss because I show an opposing argument, then feel free to stay out of it.HellishFiend wrote...
Iconoclaste wrote...
The Reapers only kill those that are able to resist, and do so. Most civilians are taken "alive", whole colonies disappear "without a trace", up until Shepard destroys the Collector's base. The Reapers, by themselves, gather "dead bodies" in the Citadel, seemingly to make a "new Reaper", and since Shepard was revived by Cerberus, a less-than-Reaper-knowledge entity, with his mind "intact" despites the fact he was truly "dead", fills the gap between many that are "killed" by Reapers and their presence in the "collective mind".
Let's not forget that, even by today's "standards", accidentally killing civilians at war is still accepted, if a "greater good" arises from it. I'm not saying I agree at all, but that's just an example of consensus going against principles for the sake of an objective : sacrifice some of the living to save the most. Star Trek uses the same motto.
Your defense of the Reapers' logic, reasons, and motivations is so profound that I think you should go make your own topic for it.
+ RefuseBansheeOwnage wrote...
Well if you consider the choices, destroy is the only one that fits that bill.Iconoclaste wrote...
This is a two-sided argument : Shepard is, by definition, an "antagonist' and from the "Reaper collective", wether Shepard believes the Catalyst's arguments or not is irrelevant. Garrus told Shepard, at some point in the game, that the end will come as a decision implying "billions will die here to allow billions to live elsewhere". That points towards the heavy implications, and the decision at the end really hinges upon any player's beliefs.BansheeOwnage wrote...
Good point. But I think you know what I mean. Most antagonists are bad guys. The reapers fall into that category.byne wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Uhhh... The main point of antagonists in any story is that they are wrong. The reapers do kill people. They do not ascend them. Just because a reaper says that you go ahead and believe it?
"You're... indoctrinated!" [/Anderson]
Seriously though, that scares me. A lot.
Not exactly true. Lets take the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC as an example. In it, the protagonist is the Hurlock Vanguard, and the main antagonists are your DA:O companions. They're clearly the good guys, but they're still the antagonists.
BansheeOwnage wrote...
HA! That's halarious! I forgot about that one (because I haven't picked the renegade option yetbyne wrote...
UltimateTobi wrote...
Yeah, because killing the Reaper off is the Renegade option.BansheeOwnage wrote...
"Whatever race you came from - they're dead now. And now they can rest in peace."
And that was the paragon option...
Fun fact: If you pick the renegade option with that Reaper, Shepard tells it the organics are taking control this time, and it says "A philosophy reminiscent of the quarians. Observe the results of their efforts to maintain control."
Even a Reaper knows control is bull****.
Probably in a few days from IGN or GameSpot.D.Sharrah wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Here:D.Sharrah wrote...
Maximized: Nice avatar!
Thread: Is the ME Panel from SDCC on the interwebs, anywhere (leaving after posting this to go troll YouTube)?
http://www.newsarama...ent-future.html
Thanks...that helped but still am hoping for somevideo of it.
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