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[HellishFiend]

Lord Goose wrote...

They should have listened to the
antagonists (Saren, TIM, Reapers) the whole time. Instead they're just soldiers only able to look at the world down
the barrel of a gun.

Illusive Man and Saren actions are more important than their philosophy. They did nothing to actually stop the Reapers, they were helping them.

And, by the way, Saren didn't wanted Synthesis. He wanted to prove yourself useful for Reapers and survive the harvest. Not to eliminate difference between synthetic and organics to establish forever peace.

Are you implying that what we see in the endings is actually real? 

Just as real as the shadowy figures the scientists on the derelict Reaper were seeing in ME2, I'm sure. 

The only thing that matters here is belief. "I need you to believe."  Put aside the "what we see" factor in the endings, and the "believing" part of Control/Synth is quite simply being indoctrinated. 

[RavenEyry]

Iconoclaste wrote...

This was answered by a guy "working in the gaming industry" a few days ago, but I don't remember if it was here or another thread. Mainly, by the way, players don't see Maj. Coates, they only see the helmet. The use of flycam involves modding the Coalesced.bin file, which is doubtly allowed by the EULA, and all players on consoles are denied that option, so the "discovery" of evidence by flycam is only for pc. I do not believe Bioware intended this.

You're right, it wasn't visible without flycam so they could have used a random model without thinking about it.

[masster blaster]

Hellish. Lord is saying that Sarn only did this so that the Reapers could spare him and the people of this cycle. But he came under the infulence of the Reapers and started to support the combination of orgaince and Synthetics.

[RavenEyry]

@HellishFiend: Just watched your choose wisely video, I didn't notice that Mordin died as a long term result of attempting to control something. Interesting observation.

[HellishFiend]

Modding the game files is not against the EULA unless it gives you an unfair advantage in MP. BW themselves have come forward to say that modding the game files is ok if you do it to remap MP hotkeys.

Not to mention, if it was an issue, Prettz would have been banned long ago.

[BansheeOwnage]

Lord Goose wrote...

They should have listened to the
antagonists (Saren, TIM, Reapers) the whole time. Instead they're just soldiers only able to look at the world down
the barrel of a gun.

Illusive Man and Saren actions are more important than their philosophy. They did nothing to actually stop the Reapers, they were helping them.

And, by the way, Saren didn't wanted Synthesis. He wanted to prove yourself useful for Reapers and survive the harvest. Not to eliminate difference between synthetic and organics to establish forever peace.

Oh right "Saren didn't wanted synthesis". How could I forget?
"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel, the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither! I am a vision of the future Shepard, the evolution of all organic life!" -Saren
Please, tell me again how "Saren didn't wanted synthesis".

[Chriz Tah Fah]

RavenEyry wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

This was answered by a guy "working in the gaming industry" a few days ago, but I don't remember if it was here or another thread. Mainly, by the way, players don't see Maj. Coates, they only see the helmet. The use of flycam involves modding the Coalesced.bin file, which is doubtly allowed by the EULA, and all players on consoles are denied that option, so the "discovery" of evidence by flycam is only for pc. I do not believe Bioware intended this.

You're right, it wasn't visible without flycam so they could have used a random model without thinking about it.

Yeah, I speculated before that they just used a model they already had because it was practical. It still doesn't explain the 2D models of Ash and Kaiden though because those models didn't need to be there. I'd put this piece of "evidence" in the same category as the 2D models.

[Riot86]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...


Some more flycam footage from the guy who noticed the gun thing. It may have been mentioned before, but I hadn't seen it and its another major hint hidden away.

Why Coats? They could have used any random Alliance soldier (maybe they were lazy and didn't have another face to use?). This is really odd because Coats "called off the attack." How could this be done if he was dead?

This was answered by a guy "working in the gaming industry" a few days ago, but I don't remember if it was here or another thread. Mainly, by the way, players don't see Maj. Coates, they only see the helmet. The use of flycam involves modding the Coalesced.bin file, which is doubtly allowed by the EULA, and all players on consoles are denied that option, so the "discovery" of evidence by flycam is only for pc. I do not believe Bioware intended this.

But by now BioWare most certainly knows that the players search for clues regarding IT using flycam.

So, they must have known that someone will find Major Coats on the Citadel one day ore another? So why not just use an generic face? Maybe even one with less details than Coats to save ressources?

[TSA_383]

I go away to try to beat reaper gold (help!) and this thread gets stickied to the top of the forum?
Hot damn.

RavenEyry wrote...

There are a lot of interesting really quiet noises slipped in. And some not so quiet.

Okay, here's a serious request for help.

Remember the sound analysis I did on the main game? The one that gave us so much interesting stuff?

Well, for the DLC I have no tool for extracting all the files to different folders, the only one I have dumps everything to a single folder and names it 00001, 00002 etc, so I have 21000 files and no way to tell where they're supposed to be.

SwiftSlash wrote...

Bringing it back to IT: did anyone
notice the screaming howell noises from the dream, and from the final
section of the conduit waddle in the decision chamber (very faintly)?

Also, were the whispers as loud during TIM's discussion pre EC?


Anther EC potential change, where there always growls after ever
renegade/paragon persuasion completed successfully with TIM before?

No.
Hadn't noticed that, in fact

Iconoclaste wrote...
Destroying Reapers is, in short, destroying all those civilizations that were "ascended" in Reaper form.

Remember the Javik dialogue, where he asks if any other protheans survived, and you explain that you had to wipe them out because they were reaper slaves?
"It was a mercy"

[HellishFiend]

RavenEyry wrote...

@HellishFiend: Just watched your choose wisely video, I didn't notice that Mordin died as a long term result of attempting to control something. Interesting observation.

Yup, and that is only the start. That video only scratches the surface. The thematic implications presented across the trilogy are staggering in scope and amount. Turbo and I are planning on making and releasing videos up until the reveal. Definitely no lack of material in that area. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:54 .

[ZerebusPrime]

UltimateTobi wrote...

And as for the EC discussion got stickied before. Well, it's a neutral discussion about the EC, so BioWare wouldn't have to have made a thread on their own.

But our thread is a (fan created) theory. That's what got me wondered why, and that it got at all, stickied.

Simply put, I know a lot of IT'ers* out there off of these boards.  IT'ers represent a pretty large segment of the community of Mass Effect players (how large is impossible to tell; among my circles it's a majority).  It is good business practice to cater to your fan base, even if that's something small like making sure the giant IT thread never gets burried under the periodic FTL forum floods.

I would also maintain that the longer this theory lives on the more likely it is that we will see a product aimed at us.


* - an IT'er as used here is defined as any person who likes/liked/belives in/believed in the Indoctrination Theory, would prefer the Indoctrination Theory interpretation over existing endings, or who would like to see the Indoctrination Theory pan out as an additional ending.

[RavenEyry]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...
Yeah, I speculated before that they just used a model they already had because it was practical. It still doesn't explain the 2D models of Ash and Kaiden though because those models didn't need to be there. I'd put this piece of "evidence" in the same category as the 2D models.

I wasn't dismissing it as evidence, just putting it in the 'minor oddities' pile.

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

I go away to try to beat reaper gold (help!) and this thread gets stickied to the top of the forum?
Hot damn.

Wish I could help you. I've full extracted against Reaper gold at least a dozen times this weekend already. 

[Iconoclaste]

RavenEyry wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

This was answered by a guy "working in the gaming industry" a few days ago, but I don't remember if it was here or another thread. Mainly, by the way, players don't see Maj. Coates, they only see the helmet. The use of flycam involves modding the Coalesced.bin file, which is doubtly allowed by the EULA, and all players on consoles are denied that option, so the "discovery" of evidence by flycam is only for pc. I do not believe Bioware intended this.

You're right, it wasn't visible without flycam so they could have used a random model without thinking about it.

The only reason I can think of "why Coates' model and not a random soldier" is because, like the "game maker" said, this was the only model available in the "cooked" packaged for these sets, so they used it instead of having to re-cook unnecessary packages.

Anyway, I'm going to take a dive in the pool, my kid and I are melting in the heat here. Have fun, always interesting to read.

[Escapulario100]

I think Bioware should give us an IT DLC. Why? Because we kept our faith in them in their hardest moment. If you believe in IT, you download the DLC, if you don’t; you just ignore it, simple as that

[TSA_383]

HellishFiend wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

@HellishFiend: Just watched your choose wisely video, I didn't notice that Mordin died as a long term result of attempting to control something. Interesting observation.

Yup, and that is only the start. That video only scratches the surface. The thematic implications presented across the trilogy are staggering in scope and amount. Turbo and I are planning on making releasing and releasing videos up until the reveal. Definitely no lack of material in that area. 

How's that going?

[HellishFiend]

masster blaster wrote...

Hellish. Lord is saying that Sarn only did this so that the Reapers could spare him and the people of this cycle. But he came under the infulence of the Reapers and started to support the combination of orgaince and Synthetics.

He said "They did nothing to actually stop the Reapers, they were helping them.  " which implies that Shepard actually does something to stop them in the Control/Synthesis endings. I disagree. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:57 .

[Lord Goose]

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine
intertwined, a union of flesh and steel, the strengths of
both, the weaknesses of neither! I am a vision of the future
Shepard, the evolution of all organic life!" -Saren Please, tell me again how "Saren didn't wanted synthesis".

I just played ME1. You should look at context.

He only wanted to be useful for the Reapers. Submission preferable to extinction. He clearly didn't wanted to stop the harvest, nor even make peace with the Reapers. He just wanted to be on winner side.

[TSA_383]

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I go away to try to beat reaper gold (help!) and this thread gets stickied to the top of the forum?
Hot damn.

Wish I could help you. I've full extracted against Reaper gold at least a dozen times this weekend already. 

We got horribly slaughtered on one round and I caught the entire round in fraps
It'll be on youtube shortly

[lex0r11]

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I go away to try to beat reaper gold (help!) and this thread gets stickied to the top of the forum?
Hot damn.

Wish I could help you. I've full extracted against Reaper gold at least a dozen times this weekend already. 

Look at him go!

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

@HellishFiend: Just watched your choose wisely video, I didn't notice that Mordin died as a long term result of attempting to control something. Interesting observation.

Yup, and that is only the start. That video only scratches the surface. The thematic implications presented across the trilogy are staggering in scope and amount. Turbo and I are planning on making and releasing videos up until the reveal. Definitely no lack of material in that area. 

How's that going?

 
We're still storyboarding the first episode. It's a video storyboard though, so once that's finished, the end product should come a day or two after. We're both working on it every day so hopefully it wont be too long. I may put out a teaser soon. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:58 .

[RavenEyry]

HellishFiend wrote...
Yup, and that is only the start. That video only scratches the surface. The thematic implications presented across the trilogy are staggering in scope and amount. Turbo and I are planning on making and releasing videos up until the reveal. Definitely no lack of material in that area. 

The sheer amount of quotes and incidents that support destroy or go against synthesis/control in the games really is amazing. I'm starting to think the ending options were foreshadowed after all, to the effect of 'choose this one'.

[EpyonX3]

lex0r11 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I go away to try to beat reaper gold (help!) and this thread gets stickied to the top of the forum?
Hot damn.

Wish I could help you. I've full extracted against Reaper gold at least a dozen times this weekend already. 

Look at him go!

I don't play MP that much but all this talk about reaper gold is making want to try it. I'll probably go down in a round or two but anyone on PC want to try it with me?

[Chriz Tah Fah]

Riot86 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...


Some more flycam footage from the guy who noticed the gun thing. It may have been mentioned before, but I hadn't seen it and its another major hint hidden away.

Why Coats? They could have used any random Alliance soldier (maybe they were lazy and didn't have another face to use?). This is really odd because Coats "called off the attack." How could this be done if he was dead?

This was answered by a guy "working in the gaming industry" a few days ago, but I don't remember if it was here or another thread. Mainly, by the way, players don't see Maj. Coates, they only see the helmet. The use of flycam involves modding the Coalesced.bin file, which is doubtly allowed by the EULA, and all players on consoles are denied that option, so the "discovery" of evidence by flycam is only for pc. I do not believe Bioware intended this.

But by now BioWare most certainly knows that the players search for clues regarding IT using flycam.

So, they must have known that someone will find Major Coats on the Citadel one day ore another? So why not just use an generic face? Maybe even one with less details than Coats to save ressources?

The fact that they added this scene to the EC when there wasn't even really a need for it is interesting. Then the fact that they use Coats' model is even more interesting. Bioware obviously didn't care too much about model rendering for this ending sequence because the piles of bodies to the right and left of the beam are 2D low res models. For all we cared we could have flycammed around and the helmet could have been taken off a headless body, then it wouldn't have been evidence. It is evidence because it was Coats' body when it didn't NEED to be.

[Iconoclaste]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Yeah, I speculated before that they just used a model they already had because it was practical. It still doesn't explain the 2D models of Ash and Kaiden though because those models didn't need to be there. I'd put this piece of "evidence" in the same category as the 2D models.

In EC, they actually tried to "bury" these textures under new whole 3d bodies in the Citadel's corridor, so they are much less obvious.