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[Bill Casey]

Epök wrote...

 Hey everyone, I just wanted to thank all of you for your fantastic work ! If you have a look at the old thread and sum up every evidence/ theory about what Bioware is trying to tell us/hint, it's just huge. I'm really convinced that the EC will show us how the Reapers tried to indoctrinate Shepard.
So I really wanted to participate and give you something I found.

Two weeks ago I started a new playthrough, I finished ME1 but didn't find anything new. Until ME2. The first time you're on the Normandy you can talk to Joker, ask him what he's been doing over the last two years and of course you can ask him what he thonks of EDI. This is what he has to say :

Shepard: "I assume everything's going well up here?"
Joker: "I really want the chance to put the Normandy through her paces. I just have to trim off the drive output and it'll be like we never lost her."
EDI: "Safety standards advise against manipulating drive settings while engines are powered and in use, Mister Moreau."
Joker: "Commander, can we shut this thing off? I don't need it in my day-to-day."
Shepard: "If you don't want to hear it, turn the damn sound off."
Joker: "Well, that doesn't change anything, it's still watching. Like some creepy kid staring at the back of your head in Comp-Sci. You just wanna... punch him... but he's "special" and sets fire or something. Okay, a little too far there, but you know what I mean!"
Shepard: "Your problem, not mine."
Joker: "Thanks, I'll remember this!" 

Is there something I missed or is it really like....? 

Keep up the good work ! 

*fires




There's also the one where he puts grease on EDI's cameras...

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm, the Rannoch destroyer was probably more stable in that since it was an entire fleet using KINETIC weapons which we know their shields are more effective against,and that likely a goodly sized chunk of the fleet had to hit it dead on despite shooting from orbit, while also keeping the Geth off their backs. So yeah plausible.

THe Hades Cannons I don't think were destroyers, but I suppose the argument could be made that Shepard was firing a projectile slow enough to pass their shield and then blew up with an excessive amount of force right under the bottom of their chassis. Either that or it was causin a chain reaction, or potentially could be from the Cain ripping the attached Hades Cannon from it's mounting, which could potentially kill the destroyer as well.

Conduit destroyer was taken out by two THANIX missiles remember, which we know are considerably more effective.

Except that Thanix cannons cause the damage they do because of their tremendous speed. Thanix missiles makes no sense. It's like throwing a handful of bullets at something and expecting it to do the same damage as a barrage from an AK-47.

If Thanix missiles really make no sense, as you say, maybe that's another sign that something is really wrong with the London/post-3rd-dream sequence.

And yes, the Hades Cannon is mounted on a destroyer. If you just look at it, you can plainly see it's a destroyer... 

If I had to try and make Thanix missles make sense, I would say Thanix missles might work something like;

Parts:
- Mass Effect core, designed to superaccelerate both the missile and it's contents
- Metallic core, designed to render down into liquid upon impact with the target and then spray violently outward from the impact site.
- Warhead, designed to cause a small localized explosion, both on the outside of the missile, as with conventional missiles, while also detonating a charge in the metallic core to liquidize and superheat the metal, as well as rupturing the metallic core, causing the spary

I don't know about you guys, but personally, I could buy that, though I could be talking entirely out of my ass, not being a literal rocket scientist or ballistics expert.

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

Right, because as you said, rachni perceive things differently. What are we even arguing about?

I think he's saying that just because the Rachni interpreted the indoctrination process as "songs the color of oily shadows", doesnt mean that the oily shadows in Shepard's dream are side effects of the indoctrination process.

That raises the question though, how would Shepard's mind interpret what the Rachni saw as "oily shadows"? I think the simplest explanation is the best one here. 

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

byne wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

wrong link, sorry

Oh, I know they're in the dreams, but what I'm saying is that, since it's not an official symptom of indoc. nor does it appear to be per se, should it not be used less leniantly, or at least more speculatively?

I dunno, I thought it was pretty cut and dry who and what she was referring to in that conversation.

Arguable. Never is it actually stated that the Rachni saw oily shadows, but rather that they heard sounds like oily shadows.

Right, because as you said, rachni perceive things differently. What are we even arguing about?

I'm not really arguing, I'm just trying to raise the point that the oily shadows in Shep's dreams ar necessarily a sign of indoc.

EDIT: Ninja'd once more...

Modifié par Leonardo the Magnificent, 23 mai 2012 - 01:33 .

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

If I had to try and make Thanix missles make sense, I would say Thanix missles might work something like;

Parts:
- Mass Effect core, designed to superaccelerate both the missile and it's contents
- Metallic core, designed to render down into liquid upon impact with the target and then spray violently outward from the impact site.
- Warhead, designed to cause a small localized explosion, both on the outside of the missile, as with conventional missiles, while also detonating a charge in the metallic core to liquidize and superheat the metal, as well as rupturing the metallic core, causing the spary

I don't know about you guys, but personally, I could buy that, though I could be talking entirely out of my ass, not being a literal rocket scientist or ballistics expert.

That does sound plausible in a science fiction context, yeah. 

[dmay7]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

byne wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

wrong link, sorry

Oh, I know they're in the dreams, but what I'm saying is that, since it's not an official symptom of indoc. nor does it appear to be per se, should it not be used less leniantly, or at least more speculatively?

I dunno, I thought it was pretty cut and dry who and what she was referring to in that conversation.

Arguable. Never is it actually stated that the Rachni saw oily shadows, but rather that they heard sounds like oily shadows.

Right, because as you said, rachni perceive things differently. What are we even arguing about?

I'm not really arguing, I'm just trying to raise the point that the oily shadows in Shep's dreams ar necessarily a sign of indoc.

EDIT: Ninja'd once more...

Why are we Ninja'd, exactly?

[HellishFiend]

dmay7 wrote...


Why are we Ninja'd, exactly?

My post right above his. 

[Big G13]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Oily shadows are oily shadows. How a particular species perceives them is, imho, irrelevant.

But the Rachni have a completely different perception of things, being a part of a hive mind and communicating however they do. That, and they never actually saw oily shadows.

True, but we're talking about Shepard's mind and how Shepard perceives what the Rachni told him/her. The Reapers aren't going to use Rachni perception to attempt indoctrination of Shepard. They are going to use Shepard's perception of what the Rachni queen told him/her.

[byne]

dmay7 wrote...

Why are we Ninja'd, exactly?

By ninja'd he means someone else said what he was gonna say before he said it.

Edit: my explanation of why we are ninja'd was ninja'd

Ninception

Modifié par byne, 23 mai 2012 - 01:36 .

[dmay7]

byne wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

Why are we Ninja'd, exactly?

By ninja'd he means someone else said what he was gonna say before he said it.

Oh, my bad lol

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

If I had to try and make Thanix missles make sense, I would say Thanix missles might work something like;

Parts:
- Mass Effect core, designed to superaccelerate both the missile and it's contents
- Metallic core, designed to render down into liquid upon impact with the target and then spray violently outward from the impact site.
- Warhead, designed to cause a small localized explosion, both on the outside of the missile, as with conventional missiles, while also detonating a charge in the metallic core to liquidize and superheat the metal, as well as rupturing the metallic core, causing the spary

I don't know about you guys, but personally, I could buy that, though I could be talking entirely out of my ass, not being a literal rocket scientist or ballistics expert.

That does sound plausible in a science fiction context, yeah. 

Oh good, thought I was sounding like an idiot.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Oily shadows are oily shadows. How a particular species perceives them is, imho, irrelevant.

But the Rachni have a completely different perception of things, being a part of a hive mind and communicating however they do. That, and they never actually saw oily shadows.

True, but we're talking about Shepard's mind and how Shepard perceives what the Rachni told him/her. The Reapers aren't going to use Rachni perception to attempt indoctrination of Shepard. They are going to use Shepard's perception of what the Rachni queen told him/her.

Okay, that works.
Thanks, just wanted to hear people's opinions on this.

[HellishFiend]

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Oily shadows are oily shadows. How a particular species perceives them is, imho, irrelevant.

But the Rachni have a completely different perception of things, being a part of a hive mind and communicating however they do. That, and they never actually saw oily shadows.

True, but we're talking about Shepard's mind and how Shepard perceives what the Rachni told him/her. The Reapers aren't going to use Rachni perception to attempt indoctrination of Shepard. They are going to use Shepard's perception of what the Rachni queen told him/her.

That raises a good point. The Rachni Queen pauses when she says "songs the color of...." as if she's trying to think of how she could communicate the concept to Shepard. She probably chose the way she feels he would perceive it: oily shadows.  

I'm gonna have to stick with thinking that the oily shadows in the dreams are the ones the Rachni Queen was referring to.

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

Why are we Ninja'd, exactly?

By ninja'd he means someone else said what he was gonna say before he said it.

Edit: my explanation of why we are ninja'd was ninja'd

Ninception

I'm on a roll! 

[byne]

HellishFiend wrote...

That raises a good point. The Rachni Queen pauses when she says "songs the color of...." as if she's trying to think of how she could communicate the concept to Shepard. She probably chose the way she feels he would perceive it: oily shadows.  

I'm gonna have to stick with thinking that the oily shadows in the dreams are the ones the Rachni Queen was referring to.

The only other thing I can think of that the oily shadows would represent is the people who have died.

Which is interesting in and of itself, because the kid isn't an oily shadow.

[RaidShock]

Rifneno wrote...
Sloppy how?  Like they didn't write "indoctrination!" on a sign and beat you unconscious with it?  Because that's pretty much the only thing they could've done to make it more obvious.

"Sloppy" was a poor choice of words, I suppose. Don't get me wrong, I like IT. I respect the work and analysis put in by those who believe it fully, and I think it would be awesome if it was Bioware's intention from the beginning. I am not necessarily a literalist, and I would classify myself more as an IT cynic than anything else.

I would argue calling it "obvious" would be equally flawed. The vast majority of the evidence for IT is based upon interpretations - perfectly valid interpretations, of course - but interpretations nonetheless. There are other interpretations that are equally valid for nearly every piece of IT evidence, thus I find myself doubting its truth.

[dmay7]

HellishFiend wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Oily shadows are oily shadows. How a particular species perceives them is, imho, irrelevant.

But the Rachni have a completely different perception of things, being a part of a hive mind and communicating however they do. That, and they never actually saw oily shadows.

True, but we're talking about Shepard's mind and how Shepard perceives what the Rachni told him/her. The Reapers aren't going to use Rachni perception to attempt indoctrination of Shepard. They are going to use Shepard's perception of what the Rachni queen told him/her.

That raises a good point. The Rachni Queen pauses when she says "songs the color of...." as if she's trying to think of how she could communicate the concept to Shepard. She probably chose the way she feels he would perceive it: oily shadows.  

I'm gonna have to stick with thinking that the oily shadows in the dreams are the ones the Rachni Queen was referring to.

If IT is real, then it must have been planned since day one. Oily shadows seems to hint at this. If this is true, Bioware just went from rejects to Gods in my book. 

Modifié par dmay7, 23 mai 2012 - 01:40 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

If I had to try and make Thanix missles make sense, I would say Thanix missles might work something like;

Parts:
- Mass Effect core, designed to superaccelerate both the missile and it's contents
- Metallic core, designed to render down into liquid upon impact with the target and then spray violently outward from the impact site.
- Warhead, designed to cause a small localized explosion, both on the outside of the missile, as with conventional missiles, while also detonating a charge in the metallic core to liquidize and superheat the metal, as well as rupturing the metallic core, causing the spary

I don't know about you guys, but personally, I could buy that, though I could be talking entirely out of my ass, not being a literal rocket scientist or ballistics expert.

That does sound plausible in a science fiction context, yeah. 

Oh good, thought I was sounding like an idiot.

It's definitely believable, I never really thought to question the workings of the Thanix Missiles but I assumed they incorperated the same technology they used to create the Thanix cannon given the name. Unless they just thought the name was cool and wanted it  to scare the pants off of enemies, but that wouldn't work well once a missile is fired if it didn't deliver.

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...


Oh good, thought I was sounding like an idiot.

It's really hard to bungle up science fiction because you have so much leeway with what can be considered realistic.  The only time it gets challenging is when you have a ton of precedent lore/canon that you have to honor when making future content. Star Trek ran into that problem so much that they had to have technical manuals for the episode writers.

Modifié par HellishFiend, 23 mai 2012 - 01:41 .

[Icinix]

byne wrote...

So, I was reading the email you get from Shiala in ME3, and something came to mind.

Shiala wrote...

I'm not sure if you remember me, but you helped me back on lllium. The Thorian is dead now. I can confirm that. But the spores in our bodies remain, and on some level, we are still connected.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. As we fight back the Reapers, we feel each other, and act with one mind, ignoring pain when the need arises. I'm sure I'm still indoctrinated. I remember Sovereign's voice in my mind when I went willingly to the Thorian as its thrall. But my connection to the people of Zhu's Hope is stronger. It drowns out the Reaper voices.

I mean, sure, she's talking about a physical connection the the people of Zhu's hope, but I kind of find it strange that right when you make your choice, the game flashes pictures of Liara (or your LI maybe? Liara is always my LI so I dont know if it changes) , Joker, and Anderson, the three people you have really strong connections to.

Seems odd for them to have their pictures appear then just randomly, as the godchild is getting you to do what he wants, or as you're resisting him.

Plus, as godchild tells you about how bad destroy is, you see Anderson picking destroy.

I dont know about you, but seeing Anderson picking destroy effectively drowned out any talk from the godchild about how bad it was for me.

Same here, although Destroy was very much always going to be the final choice for me, seeing Anderson making that call was like..vindication in my mind.

[dmay7]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


Oh good, thought I was sounding like an idiot.

It's really hard to bungle up science fiction because you have so much leeway with what can be considered realistic.  The only time it gets challenging is when you have a ton of precedent lore/canon that you have to honor when making future content. Star Trek ran into that problem so much that they had to have technical manuals for the episode writers.

I actually own some of those Tech manuals...

[dreamgazer]

Bill Casey wrote...

There's also the one where he puts grease on EDI's cameras...

... I completely forgot about this! Scintillating. 

[MegumiAzusa]

In the prolog when Shep is tossed away by the beam and hit her head on the ground you can suddenly hear voices, which subsequently fade out again as Shep regains consciousness.

[Xavendithas]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Yo, indoc. dawgs, I got's somethin' to say about oily shadows! Okay, so this has probably been talked to death now, but does the Rachni queen not say "sounds the color of oily shadows?" So, seeing as how the rachni have a completely different perception than humans do and how they never actually saw any oily shadows, doesn't that call the legitimacy of that aspect of IT into question?

Just curious.

Oily shadows are oily shadows. How a particular species perceives them is, imho, irrelevant.

But the Rachni have a completely different perception of things, being a part of a hive mind and communicating however they do. That, and they never actually saw oily shadows.

True, but we're talking about Shepard's mind and how Shepard perceives what the Rachni told him/her. The Reapers aren't going to use Rachni perception to attempt indoctrination of Shepard. They are going to use Shepard's perception of what the Rachni queen told him/her.

Okay, that works.
Thanks, just wanted to hear people's opinions on this.

I just rewatched the conversation on youtube, it is far more ambiguous
than I remembered. One thing I find very interesting though is this
response when Shepard asks her a question.

Shepard: 'Are you a survivor from the war? A clone?

Rachni
Queen: 'We do not know. We were only an egg, hearing Mother cry in our
dreams. A tone from space hushed one voice after another. It forced the
singers resonate with it's own sour yellow note.'

If that isn't a subtle indication of Harbingers role in the corruption of the Rachni, I don't know what is.

Edit: sorry for the ****ed up format on that.

Modifié par Xavendithas, 23 mai 2012 - 01:45 .

[Rifneno]

byne wrote...

Well, I never really thought Justice changed that much. He was always against injustice, so obviously he'd be against the idea of the Circle. I just always thought Anders changed far too much. I loved Awakening Anders, but dont much care for DA2 Anders.

And I thought end-game bosses were too 'video-gamey' BioWare!

Orsino going crazy always pissed me off. At least Meredith has the excuse of being totally insane for turning on you if you side with her. Orsino just randomly decides blood magic is great for no real reason.

People are gonna be pissed if they don't elaborate on what that idol was.
As for Orsino, he doesn't just go all blood magicy all of a sudden, he summons a fricking harvester all of a sudden.  OMG.  That's almost as senseless as Meredith's magic statue powers.  ...  Almost.