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[Humakt83]

Have anyone considered just how/where/when the Hanar Ambassador got indoctrinated? Or was it mentioned in the game?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

smokingotter1 wrote...

(Snip)

How I envision the post ending DLC, partly inspired by Star Wars A New Hope

Harbinger: "Serve us"
(Dream sequence,
Shepard chooses destroy.
Is behind Mako
Harbinger blasts Mako throwing Shepard back causing massive damge to his armor.
Breathe scene)
If EMS is high enough
Harbinger: "I have you now."
Joker: "Yeehaw!!"
(Normandy starts firing on Harbinger)
Harbinger: "Wha da fuq?"
(Shepard makes it into conduit, commence epic Citadel mission)

Only thing I can say against thatt theory (beyond the 1 foot from face laser beam) is that it still includes that awful out of character scene of the Normandy picking the squad up.

I am sure i dont have to dig into why it is so ridicoulous, with characters like Javik suposedly running at Shepards orders and the mere fact taht Shepard chooses this moment to worrya bout them. He led a suicide mission with his squad for crying out loud and in this situation having as amny high trianed people around is only even more important.

So my perfect situation would be Shepards squadmates dragging him to his feet from the rublle and heading with him through the beam.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Humakt83 wrote...

Have anyone considered just how/where/when the Hanar Ambassador got indoctrinated? Or was it mentioned in the game?

He got his tentacles on a Reaper Artifact

[Trollgunner]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

(Snip)

How I envision the post ending DLC, partly inspired by Star Wars A New Hope

Harbinger: "Serve us"
(Dream sequence,
Shepard chooses destroy.
Is behind Mako
Harbinger blasts Mako throwing Shepard back causing massive damge to his armor.
Breathe scene)
If EMS is high enough
Harbinger: "I have you now."
Joker: "Yeehaw!!"
(Normandy starts firing on Harbinger)
Harbinger: "Wha da fuq?"
(Shepard makes it into conduit, commence epic Citadel mission)

Only thing I can say against thatt theory (beyond the 1 foot from face laser beam) is that it still includes that awful out of character scene of the Normandy picking the squad up.

I am sure i dont have to dig into why it is so ridicoulous, with characters like Javik suposedly running at Shepards orders and the mere fact taht Shepard chooses this moment to worrya bout them. He led a suicide mission with his squad for crying out loud and in this situation having as amny high trianed people around is only even more important.

So my perfect situation would be Shepards squadmates dragging him to his feet from the rublle and heading with him through the beam.

Don't even mention that scene It's so ...bad, ugh, I even can't describe it. Well, cuz of this scene I even started a thread some time ago.

[Chriz Tah Fah]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

(Snip)

How I envision the post ending DLC, partly inspired by Star Wars A New Hope

Harbinger: "Serve us"
(Dream sequence,
Shepard chooses destroy.
Is behind Mako
Harbinger blasts Mako throwing Shepard back causing massive damge to his armor.
Breathe scene)
If EMS is high enough
Harbinger: "I have you now."
Joker: "Yeehaw!!"
(Normandy starts firing on Harbinger)
Harbinger: "Wha da fuq?"
(Shepard makes it into conduit, commence epic Citadel mission)

Only thing I can say against thatt theory (beyond the 1 foot from face laser beam) is that it still includes that awful out of character scene of the Normandy picking the squad up.

I am sure i dont have to dig into why it is so ridicoulous, with characters like Javik suposedly running at Shepards orders and the mere fact taht Shepard chooses this moment to worrya bout them. He led a suicide mission with his squad for crying out loud and in this situation having as amny high trianed people around is only even more important.

So my perfect situation would be Shepards squadmates dragging him to his feet from the rublle and heading with him through the beam.

It is possible that the scene where Joker reluctantly leaves Shepard behind is partially real. It is possible that after Shepard is hit and the Normandy evac'd Joker decided to come back in and drop the squad again. If we want to be realistic, every single person on the Normandy who could hold a gun would have been dropped should the Normandy make a return. It would make sense for the Normandy to come back because not 1 person on the Normandy would leave Shepard behind unless he/she was confirmed dead. We could quite possibly see a scene where Shepard gets dragged onto the Citadel by squadmates. 

[Simon_Says]

The problem I see with the idea that the Normandy pickup scene isn't real is the space scenes later. How and why would Shepard be aware of the space scenes?

DJBare wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Well if you consider the choices, destroy is the only one that fits that bill.

Does it really?, I wonder, as I've said before, each of the options is what the different Shepards(players) WANT, very few pick reject, but is that not the point of indoctrintion, to show the victim what they WANT to see, in which case even destroy can be a deception, Bioware knows most will have opted for destroy, after all it's what all Shepard's set out to do, destroy the reapers, so basically the destroy option is the biggest honeypot trap, all three are traps in my opinion, but destroy now stands out as the biggest to me.

Then the series truly ends on a downer ending, because there wasn't any way out? How do you explain the breath scene then?

Modifié par Simon_Says, 15 juillet 2012 - 09:19 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Anyone else realize Shepard is alone during the end sequences for the first time in the Trilogy?

Mass Effect 1 he had two squadmates with him facing Saren, Mass Effect 2 he had two squadmates by his side facing the Proto Reaper, but by Mass Effect 3 and the Catalyst he is alone. 

Now this can easily simply be the good old trope of the Hero having to finish his journey alone and nothing wrong with that.

But I noticed that many of Biowares RPGs actually feature the Hero and his team facing the final challenge together. And that makes sense since many of Bioware´s heroes are people whose greatest strength was their ability to gather others around them and amke them fight together.

I cant speak for Baldur´s Gate 1 as i havent played it and i cant remember if you are alone in Baldur´s Gate 2s ending. i do remember though that you are alone in Knights of the Old Republic.

But in Dragon Age: Origins the warden fights alongside his team and many major characters from throughout the game as well as other soldiers against the Archdemon.

And Dragon Age 2 for all its flaws has Hawke fighting alongside not only his current Squad but every party member in the game during the final battle. That was actully a part i really liked about that battle especially since the way I discovered it was quite epic. My Hawke was running low on Health and my current healers spells were on CD when suddenly a heal comes out of nowhere. I look around and see Hawke´s sister coming in from the side, pretty epic.

But I juts find it curious that after the last two games having Shepard with a squad in the end, he is alone here.

[MaximizedAction]

Simon_Says wrote...

The problem I see with the idea that the Normandy pickup scene isn't real is the space scenes later. How and why would Shepard be aware of the space scenes?

How and why would Shepard be aware of the space scenes during the battle of the Citadel in ME1? I know what you mean, though, I've also been thinking about this...

[Andromidius]

Humakt83 wrote...

Have anyone considered just how/where/when the Hanar Ambassador got indoctrinated? Or was it mentioned in the game?

Its possible that the Hanar wasn't indoctrinated at all, and merely had a very twisted logic to his motivations.  And honestly, in a sense, he was completely correct.  The Enkindlers (Protheans) became the Collectors, who were servants of the Reapers.

In a way, all Hanar are 'indoctrinated' socially to revere the Enkindlers.  I'm not convinced there was anything further to it then that - he was just a religious zealot.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Simon_Says wrote...

The problem I see with the idea that the Normandy pickup scene isn't real is the space scenes later. How and why would Shepard be aware of the space scenes?

Hopeful images?

I dont know, but to turn it around how does the crew on the Normandy know Anderson and Shepard are dead? Even more importantly why does your love interest hesitate at high EMS Destroy?

They had no way we know of to know if Shepard or Anderson were alive or dead.

Oh and dont even get me started on the fact that there is supposedly a perfectly habitable planet within easy FTL jumping distance of Earth and the Normandy just happens to crash on it.

We even hear how the Earth has over population problems so a planet able to support life perfectly near to earth would be a god send, but there is not a building or sign of population in sight where the Normandy crashes...

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 15 juillet 2012 - 09:22 .

[Chriz Tah Fah]

Honestly. I would love to see Shepard pulled out of the rubble and onto the Citadel by EVERY SQUADMATE you have alive. Meaning Jack, Miranda, Jacob etc. rejoin you for this period of time. The final Citadel sequence could pan out sort of like the Collector base in ME2. You would not have 10+ character with you at all times (although this would be freeking awesome!) but you would be reunited with everyone and be able to give the "galaxy's best" their orders in the final battle.

[Andromidius]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...
It is possible that the scene where Joker reluctantly leaves Shepard behind is partially real. It is possible that after Shepard is hit and the Normandy evac'd Joker decided to come back in and drop the squad again. If we want to be realistic, every single person on the Normandy who could hold a gun would have been dropped should the Normandy make a return. It would make sense for the Normandy to come back because not 1 person on the Normandy would leave Shepard behind unless he/she was confirmed dead. We could quite possibly see a scene where Shepard gets dragged onto the Citadel by squadmates. 

Would have loved it if all Shepard's companions were running towards the beam alongside Shep.  A real 'final charge' for the heroes.

Then your EMS could decide how many of your companions made it, and then a Suicide Mission #2 could take place on the Citadel with whoever survived.

Alas.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Andromidius wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

Have anyone considered just how/where/when the Hanar Ambassador got indoctrinated? Or was it mentioned in the game?

Its possible that the Hanar wasn't indoctrinated at all, and merely had a very twisted logic to his motivations.  And honestly, in a sense, he was completely correct.  The Enkindlers (Protheans) became the Collectors, who were servants of the Reapers.

In a way, all Hanar are 'indoctrinated' socially to revere the Enkindlers.  I'm not convinced there was anything further to it then that - he was just a religious zealot.

It is mentioned how a Black Op the Hanarr was imvolved with supposedly went horribly wrong and you find out the Hanarr aquired a Reaper Artifact from said Black Op or something along those lines.

[Edorian27]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Anyone else realize Shepard is alone during the end sequences for the first time in the Trilogy?

Mass Effect 1 he had two squadmates with him facing Saren, Mass Effect 2 he had two squadmates by his side facing the Proto Reaper, but by Mass Effect 3 and the Catalyst he is alone. 

 

Doesn't make sense at all that they got evacuated, when 2 minutes before they are all like "This is it" "to the death" etc.. and now they evacuate because of what? a broken fingernail?

However, comments of your squadmates regarding the starchild would be funny :innocent:

[MegumiAzusa]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...
Well if you consider the choices, destroy is the only one that fits that bill.

Does it really?, I wonder, as I've said before, each of the options is what the different Shepards(players) WANT, very few pick reject, but is that not the point of indoctrintion, to show the victim what they WANT to see, in which case even destroy can be a deception, Bioware knows most will have opted for destroy, after all it's what all Shepard's set out to do, destroy the reapers, so basically the destroy option is the biggest honeypot trap, all three are traps in my opinion, but destroy now stands out as the biggest to me.

I agree. I believe that the decision chamber is the overlay of the conduit run. Same place but happening in slow motion.

Destroy has Shepard moving towards Harbinger to be killed, Harbinger flubs it, shoots the MAKO as Shepard shoots the "tube." Explosion-Shepard wakes up

Refuse has Shepard standing out in the open picking his nose as Harbinger beams moves in for the kill.

Basically the decision chamber is dream/reality in conflict, the minute Shepard starts to shoot at the tube the sound of his gun changes to predator, and the gun image changes a couple of seconds later.

Whats really happening in the decision chamber:

Lets assume that this is true and that it really is just an overlay. The right choice would be to get behind the Mako to hide from the laser. But at the rate Harbinger is firing, after that Mako tank is gone, Shepard would be vaporized by a second beam a fraction of a second later. The main goal would be to get to the beam making Synthesis not the most insane move? Speculation I guess. I do really like your overlay theory and it turns out great but the aftermath is a little iffy if you know what i mean.

Yeah, the thing is I'm pretty sure now that although the reapers want Shepard indoctrinated the TIM-Anderson scene is their last attempt. The decision chamber is an effort to kill Shepard. Bioware deliberatly changed the scene where Harbinger blasts at Shepard, there is more emphasis on the direction IMO. He's shooting diagonally from the right. The only way to dodge that is to go right. If you go left or straight Shepard will be killed.

The only problem I see with this is that Harbinger's beam is literally a foot away before you get the light fade transition. On top of this, Shepard jumps almost directly backwards as the beam almost hits her. Unless the hillucination starts at the beginning of the conduit rush, or right after the Normandy evac's Shepard would be hit by the laser.

Does anyone know how to do flycam with this scene? We need moar detail. Enhance!

btw overlaying gives this:

look how nicely the Makos on the left and right side line up with the edge of the path.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Edorian27 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Anyone else realize Shepard is alone during the end sequences for the first time in the Trilogy?

Mass Effect 1 he had two squadmates with him facing Saren, Mass Effect 2 he had two squadmates by his side facing the Proto Reaper, but by Mass Effect 3 and the Catalyst he is alone. 

 

Doesn't make sense at all that they got evacuated, when 2 minutes before they are all like "This is it" "to the death" etc.. and now they evacuate because of what? a broken fingernail?

However, comments of your squadmates regarding the starchild would be funny :innocent:

I could do a small essay on the stupidity of the evacuation scene <_<

[Chriz Tah Fah]

Andromidius wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...
It is possible that the scene where Joker reluctantly leaves Shepard behind is partially real. It is possible that after Shepard is hit and the Normandy evac'd Joker decided to come back in and drop the squad again. If we want to be realistic, every single person on the Normandy who could hold a gun would have been dropped should the Normandy make a return. It would make sense for the Normandy to come back because not 1 person on the Normandy would leave Shepard behind unless he/she was confirmed dead. We could quite possibly see a scene where Shepard gets dragged onto the Citadel by squadmates. 

Would have loved it if all Shepard's companions were running towards the beam alongside Shep.  A real 'final charge' for the heroes.

Then your EMS could decide how many of your companions made it, and then a Suicide Mission #2 could take place on the Citadel with whoever survived.

Alas.

For one time in the entire ending sequence I would agree that the way it is now makes more sense. Having your 15 squadmates running towards the beam should get the majority of them killed no matter what your EMS is. If your EMS was rediculously high allowing all of your squadmates to make it would mean that Harbinger decided not to shoot at your squadmates at all. This obviously wouldn't make any sense.

The only way I could see it as plausable is if a few ships enter the atmosphere and distract Harbinger while the Normandy re-drops EVERYONE before entering the Citadel. While the way you put it is definitely more epic, it just plain wouldn't make any sense for more than one of them to survive.

[FellishBeast]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

They can read your mind. The evidence is in the Retribution novel. The reapers could flip through Grayson's memories like a library and read his thoughts as they came to mind.

Grayson was practically a husk at that point. Reapers used him as marionette.

Doesn't disprove the fact that reapers could have read enough of Shepard's thoughts to learn of a boy he saw get vaporized. 

Perhaps in theory, but there is no way that kid was real. IT or not.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

btw overlaying gives this:

look how nicely the Makos on the left and right side line up with the edge of the path.

Yeah it is nice, it is almost as if it was intended...

[Chriz Tah Fah]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

btw overlaying gives this:

look how nicely the Makos on the left and right side line up with the edge of the path.

Yeah it is nice, it is almost as if it was intended...

And then there's always there comment of how Bioware was pressed for time and needed to re-use things. Even so, I think if it was reused it would not match up so closely. They could have just eliminated the wheel like things that resemble Makos.

[Dwailing]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

btw overlaying gives this:

look how nicely the Makos on the left and right side line up with the edge of the path.

Yeah it is nice, it is almost as if it was intended...

Lot's of speculation for everyone. 

[Simon_Says]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

The problem I see with the idea that the Normandy pickup scene isn't real is the space scenes later. How and why would Shepard be aware of the space scenes?

Hoepful images?

I dont know, but to turn it around how does the crew on the Normandy know Anderson and Shepard are dead? Even more importantly why does your love interest hesitate at high EMS Destroy?

They had no way we know of to know if Shepard or Anderson were alive or dead.

I still maintain reasonable assumption at play here.

Synthesis/Control: The reapers communicate what happened some time between the Crucible firing and the memorial scene. Either that or since Shepard effectively failed the mission (Destroy All Reapers!), there's no doubt Shepard wouldn't be coming back. As for Destroy, again it's a matter of degree. The mission succeeded, but remember with higher and higher EMS, less and less damage is done to collateral targets. There's that tipping point where Shepard survives, thus it must have been plausible for Shepard to survive in the first place. And since it was plausible, the LI maintains hope.

Logically speaking, say P is "It's plausible Shepard survive", S is "Shepard survives" and L is "LI believes Shepard could have survived."

S -> P
P -> L

∴ S -> L

Modifié par Simon_Says, 15 juillet 2012 - 09:33 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Simon_Says wrote...

I still maintain reasonable assumption at play here.

Synthesis/Control: The reapers communicate what happened some time between the Crucible firing and the memorial scene. Either that or since Shepard effectively failed the mission (Destroy All Reapers!), there's no doubt Shepard wouldn't be coming back. As for Destroy, again it's a matter of degree. The mission succeeded, but remember with higher and higher EMS, less and less damage is done to collateral targets. There's that tipping point where Shepard survives, thus it must have been plausible for Shepard to survive in the first place. And since it was plausible, the LI maintains hope.

Logically speaking, say P is "It's plausible Shepard survive", S is "Shepard survives" and L is "LI believes Shepard could have survived."

S -> P
P -> L

∴ S -> L

Then what about Anderson? From what we know the Crew knows it Anderson and Shepard have the same chances of survival, so why do they only think Shepard might have survived?

Also am i the only one who considers our avatars of opposite facing Salarians hilarius in light of the fact that are discussing this? Starting to read my own and your comments like a Salarian

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 15 juillet 2012 - 09:37 .

[Dwailing]

Edorian27 wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Anyone else realize Shepard is alone during the end sequences for the first time in the Trilogy?

Mass Effect 1 he had two squadmates with him facing Saren, Mass Effect 2 he had two squadmates by his side facing the Proto Reaper, but by Mass Effect 3 and the Catalyst he is alone. 

 

Doesn't make sense at all that they got evacuated, when 2 minutes before they are all like "This is it" "to the death" etc.. and now they evacuate because of what? a broken fingernail?

However, comments of your squadmates regarding the starchild would be funny :innocent:

You know, Shepard could have just slapped some medi-gel on them and I'm sure they would have been fine.  I mean, that stuff heals them from being stabbed through the heart by a Banshee, how much worse can an accelerated beam of molten metal be?   In all seriousness, the evac scene IS kind of stupid, but there's something even more confusing.  In the scene on the Normandy where one of your teammates tells Joker that they have to go, that teammate could quite possibly be one of the guys that got blasted by Harby, and yet s/he's perfectly fine!  Man, Dr. Chakwas/Michel is one frakking good doctor!  Repairing ALL the damage from being blasted by an accelerated beam of molten metal in, what? 10-15 minutes or so?  She must have been top of the class in med-school!

Modifié par Dwailing, 15 juillet 2012 - 09:42 .

[Simon_Says]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

I still maintain reasonable assumption at play here.

Synthesis/Control: The reapers communicate what happened some time between the Crucible firing and the memorial scene. Either that or since Shepard effectively failed the mission (Destroy All Reapers!), there's no doubt Shepard wouldn't be coming back. As for Destroy, again it's a matter of degree. The mission succeeded, but remember with higher and higher EMS, less and less damage is done to collateral targets. There's that tipping point where Shepard survives, thus it must have been plausible for Shepard to survive in the first place. And since it was plausible, the LI maintains hope.

Logically speaking, say P is "It's plausible Shepard survive", S is "Shepard survives" and L is "LI believes Shepard could have survived."

S -> P
P -> L

∴ S -> L

Then what about Anderson? From what we know the Crew knows it Anderson and Shepard have the same chances of survival, so why do they only think Shepard might have survived?

Also am i the only one who considers our avatars of opposite facing Salarians hilarius in light of the fact that are discussing this? Starting to read my own and your comments like a Salarian

Remember that Hacket never said that Anderson made it to the beam. Coats said the entire team was decimated. IT even posulates that the Citadel Anderson was a hallucination.

For all we know, Anderson is dead, and was confirmed dead, even before Shepard 'made it to the beam'.

As for the avatars, careful now. If we keep going like this a good fracas may be the best way to settle things.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 15 juillet 2012 - 09:46 .