55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MaximizedAction]

UltimateTobi wrote...

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...
Well...with the EC, the soundtrack of Control is also very Saren-y, isn't it? It's nowhere said to be a bad ending (just like keeping the Collector's base wasn't), but it's all in the details.

Note destroy is the only one were the narration calls it a victory.

Even though it's not.

If the endings turn out to be taken literally, I'll change my choice from Destroy to Control, because I don't want the geth and EDI to be dead.
Control because nothing changes, just that I am in control now!

But no way Synthesis. This utopia isn't compelling to me.

I try arguing with myself whether the other choices are really better, but no. Taking the ending literal means believing the Catalyst and that means that the Control really is the only choice that saves the most amount of lives. And since this is THE way of siding with the Reapers, I'd say this is why it's labeled 'bad'.

[CoolioThane]

paxxton wrote...

Utopias sound nice in theory but in reality they usually become nightmares.

Exactly. Look at Rapture (coincidentally where Shepard is headed next )

[UltimateTobi]

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...
Well...with the EC, the soundtrack of Control is also very Saren-y, isn't it? It's nowhere said to be a bad ending (just like keeping the Collector's base wasn't), but it's all in the details.

Note destroy is the only one were the narration calls it a victory.

Even though it's not.

If the endings turn out to be taken literally, I'll change my choice from Destroy to Control, because I don't want the geth and EDI to be dead.
Control because nothing changes, just that I am in control now!

But no way Synthesis. This utopia isn't compelling to me.

I try arguing with myself whether the other choices are really better, but no. Taking the ending literal means believing the Catalyst and that means that the Control really is the only choice that saves the most amount of lives. And since this is THE way of siding with the Reapers, I'd say this is why it's labeled 'bad'.

Yeah. If even the geth want to build their own future, so surely want organics. Synthesis takes this away. The geth aren't the "geth" anymore, if you catch my meaning. All's a hybrid of organic-mechanic/synthetic.

Destroy, well, I took the oportunity away from the geth as well, and I killed EDI, who learned to live slowly.

Control. Well, it's just me who's gone and I can handle the Reapers like I feel. Defending the galaxy from outer threads, or visiting other galaxies and have a look there, and let the Milky Way develop like it should and will. Whatever suits me.

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:39 .

[RavenEyry]

Seems every discussion of which choice is best boils down to "Gee, they really had to shoehorn in negative consequences to destroy, can I live with them"

[UltimateTobi]

That's what makes IT so compelling to me. If at face value: Destroy is in my opinion the worst option next to Synthesis.
In IT value, yeah. I know I resisted Indoc., and my journey will continue, whether in my head, as DLC, or in the next game.

[RavenEyry]

See I consider it the best face-value ending because the only drawback is the death of the geth and EDI, who were both willing to die if necessary, and nothing says they can't be repaired.

[Dam0299]

UltimateTobi wrote...

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...
Well...with the EC, the soundtrack of Control is also very Saren-y, isn't it? It's nowhere said to be a bad ending (just like keeping the Collector's base wasn't), but it's all in the details.

Note destroy is the only one were the narration calls it a victory.

Even though it's not.

If the endings turn out to be taken literally, I'll change my choice from Destroy to Control, because I don't want the geth and EDI to be dead.
Control because nothing changes, just that I am in control now!

But no way Synthesis. This utopia isn't compelling to me.

If IT is not true and it meant to be taken literally then see it as this. The reapers are made up of trillions of people who at one point were taken against their will, their bodies mutilated in a excruciatingly painful and twisted way and turned into metal shelled puppets. They were at some point someones family, friends or children. To control them is to make you a puppeteer that makes people's dead family members dance to your will, Is that really what you want to become?. And if Edi and the geth are destroyed, We can and WILL repair them. The catalyst itself states that those who survive will have little difficulty repairing the damage. We owe them for their help in stopping the reapers after all.

Modifié par Dam0299, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:53 .

[smokingotter1]

In terms of the decision chamber I choose to role play what my Shepard would do in that situation.

"The idea here is that who we are is rooted in our actions. The story in our head, the world around us and everything else are abstractions of this most fundamental realm of existence." (not my words). The reapers can color reality anyway they want but it won't stop Shepard from fighting them on every realm of existence/experience.

What would my Shepard do? Well he wouldn't let fear compromise who he is and what choices he makes. All he knows is that past experience efforts to control the reapers always backfire, and everything is fishy about the decision chamber anyway. The question is not knowing the consequences would you trust the starchild at that time? Would my Shepard trust the starchild who he just met and speaks of the reapers using the words "us" and "we."

My Shepard: "Bull****! I'm going to continue fighting the reapers and let the chips fall where they may."

[paxxton]

I don't know but I have a strong feeling that IT is simply true. It's too compelling to just be trashed by BioWare as merely fan fiction. + $$$$$

Modifié par paxxton, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:52 .

[UltimateTobi]

RavenEyry wrote...

See I consider it the best face-value ending because the only drawback is the death of the geth and EDI, who were both willing to die if necessary, and nothing says they can't be repaired.

How do you want to repair something and make it function, if the software (the brain) behind it is dead?
If this big ass wave of all synthetic-destroying madness hits the geth, I bet all platforms are destroyed. And what happens if the "software" can't upload itself to another platform to save itself? Correct, it's erased.
So you might repair mindless geth platforms, but as the geth themselves stated; geth platforms are reproducable. The important thing is the geth software(s) on each platform, which up- and download.

@paxx, I think so too. Why adding a choice which is sacrificing too much, yet it's the way to break Indoc. Mind trick by Reapers. Let the good choice shine in bad light, and represent the wrong choices and a positive manner.

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:55 .

[RavenEyry]

UltimateTobi wrote...
How do you want to repair something and make it function, if the software (the brain) behind it is dead?
If this big ass wave of all synthetic-destroying madness hits the geth, I bet all platforms are destroyed. And what happens if the "software" can't upload itself to another platform to save itself? Correct, it's erased.
So you might repair mindless geth platforms, but as the geth themselves stated; geth platforms are reproducable. The important thing is the geth software(s) on each platform, which up- and download.

I just don't buy that there is absolutely no way to recover the software because of a flash of red light.

And even if I did think one of the other endings was better, my Shepard would still go for destroy because she doesn't have the privilege of watching the cutscenes on youtube first.

[UltimateTobi]

RavenEyry wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...
How do you want to repair something and make it function, if the software (the brain) behind it is dead?
If this big ass wave of all synthetic-destroying madness hits the geth, I bet all platforms are destroyed. And what happens if the "software" can't upload itself to another platform to save itself? Correct, it's erased.
So you might repair mindless geth platforms, but as the geth themselves stated; geth platforms are reproducable. The important thing is the geth software(s) on each platform, which up- and download.

I just don't buy that there is absolutely no way to recover the software because of a flash of red light.

And even if I did think one of the other endings was better, my Shepard would still go for destroy because she doesn't have the privilege of watching the cutscenes on youtube first.

You can see it however you want. I just state my POV here.

But, honestly. It makes no sense to discuss about that, because we all know: There is no face value to be taken.

[smokingotter1]

RavenEyry wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...
How do you want to repair something and make it function, if the software (the brain) behind it is dead?
If this big ass wave of all synthetic-destroying madness hits the geth, I bet all platforms are destroyed. And what happens if the "software" can't upload itself to another platform to save itself? Correct, it's erased.
So you might repair mindless geth platforms, but as the geth themselves stated; geth platforms are reproducable. The important thing is the geth software(s) on each platform, which up- and download.

I just don't buy that there is absolutely no way to recover the software because of a flash of red light.

And even if I did think one of the other endings was better, my Shepard would still go for destroy because she doesn't have the privilege of watching the cutscenes on youtube first.

THIS x1000. I didn't watch the endings either, I just made the choice that made sense to me at the time, destroy, I stand by it. Sorry Geth and EDI (assuming the casper was telling the truth).

[Lord Goose]

Taking the ending literal means
believing the Catalyst and that means that the Control really
is the only choice that saves the most amount of lives.

Just to clarify.

It is actually possible to not care about geht at all. As player and as Shepard.

I'm doing renegade playthrough with female Shepard (Judith Shepard, Ruthless, Colonist) and just finished Rannoch mission.

It is possible to agree with idea of destroying the geth in the beginning. It is possible to criticise Legion for lying at least three times. It is possible to make decision ''the geth should die'' and use renegade interruption to tell Legion what he and his kind are just machines, hacked by the Reapers, and they should be destroyed as payback for siding with the Reapers.

If you do so, it would be impossible to even think about peace at first. First choice would be between ''let Legion upload the code'' and ''let geth die''. If you choose the latter, Legion will try to persuade Shepard to let them live, because they can help save Earth.

Only after that it is possible to establish peace between them.

Now can someone tell me, what makes Reapers think that Judith Shepard would not choose Destroy because of geth and EDI? They are obviously can read her mind, because visions are different for Renegade and Paragon.

[UltimateTobi]

And if I am honest. I rather have geth survive than humanity. >

[RavenEyry]

UltimateTobi wrote...
But, honestly. It makes no sense to discuss about that, because we all know: There is no face value to be taken.

Darn strait. I even made a list of the dreamlike things in the ending, as you've seen. (I'm channeling paxxton here)

[paxxton]

UltimateTobi wrote...

And if I am honest. I rather have geth survive than humanity. >

WOW!

[UltimateTobi]

I never had that bond "OMG humanity will fall, nooez. :'(". I cared about the whole galaxy as a whole. Not specifically humanity.

[paxxton]

Yes, the whole Galaxy is at stake not a single species.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

UltimateTobi wrote...

I never had that bond "OMG humanity will fall, nooez. :'(". I cared about the whole galaxy as a whole. Not specifically humanity.

Same, my Shepard was never fighting for Humanity, he was fighting for all races Organic and Synthetic. But as much as I loved EDI and the Geth, as much as i dident want to sacrifice them I considered the Reapers to dangerous to let live.

Noone knows how the future looks and the Reapers might one day go back to harvesting if the Galaxy evolves to much away from Utopia. Shepard if Control was chosen might be twisted to agree with the reapers, just like with indoctrination.

No, destroying them was the only safe choice despite the costs...

[UltimateTobi]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

I never had that bond "OMG humanity will fall, nooez. :'(". I cared about the whole galaxy as a whole. Not specifically humanity.

Same, my Shepard was never fighting for Humanity, he was fighting for all races Organic and Synthetic. But as much as I loved EDI and the Geth, as much as i dident want to sacrifice them I considered the Reapers to dangerous to let live.

Noone knows how the future looks and the Reapers might one day go back to harvesting if the Galaxy evolves to much away from Utopia. Shepard if Control was chosen might be twisted to agree with the reapers, just like with indoctrination.

No, destroying them was the only safe choice despite the costs...

And so you broke the Indoc. attempt, and you're free to fight for the galaxy, once and for all.

That's the spirit guys. Destroy is the only option. Good that we didn't lose faith.

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 16 juillet 2012 - 03:12 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Lord Goose wrote...

Taking the ending literal means
believing the Catalyst and that means that the Control really
is the only choice that saves the most amount of lives.

Just to clarify.

It is actually possible to not care about geht at all. As player and as Shepard.

I'm doing renegade playthrough with female Shepard (Judith Shepard, Ruthless, Colonist) and just finished Rannoch mission.

It is possible to agree with idea of destroying the geth in the beginning. It is possible to criticise Legion for lying at least three times. It is possible to make decision ''the geth should die'' and use renegade interruption to tell Legion what he and his kind are just machines, hacked by the Reapers, and they should be destroyed as payback for siding with the Reapers.

If you do so, it would be impossible to even think about peace at first. First choice would be between ''let Legion upload the code'' and ''let geth die''. If you choose the latter, Legion will try to persuade Shepard to let them live, because they can help save Earth.

Only after that it is possible to establish peace between them.

Now can someone tell me, what makes Reapers think that Judith Shepard would not choose Destroy because of geth and EDI? They are obviously can read her mind, because visions are different for Renegade and Paragon.

From what I understand if the Geth are gone Starchild changes his destroy describtion to "and most of the technology you rely on" or something similar. Dont know if that changed with EC though.

[MaximizedAction]

UltimateTobi wrote...

I never had that bond "OMG humanity will fall, nooez. :'(". I cared about the whole galaxy as a whole. Not specifically humanity.

Same here! I never get this obligated "humanity first" bs and Take Back Earth blah blah that was the seller for ME3, what about the rest? Why not take back the galaxy?





Wait a minute, did Cerberus do the marketing and the Reapers the programming of ME3?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

I never had that bond "OMG humanity will fall, nooez. :'(". I cared about the whole galaxy as a whole. Not specifically humanity.

Same here! I never get this obligated "humanity first" bs and Take Back Earth blah blah that was the seller for ME3, what about the rest? Why not take back the galaxy?





Wait a minute, did Cerberus do the marketing and the Reapers the programming of ME3?

[UltimateTobi]

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

I never had that bond "OMG humanity will fall, nooez. :'(". I cared about the whole galaxy as a whole. Not specifically humanity.

Same here! I never get this obligated "humanity first" bs and Take Back Earth blah blah that was the seller for ME3, what about the rest? Why not take back the galaxy?





Wait a minute, did Cerberus do the marketing and the Reapers the programming of ME3?

... it yells "speculations?!"