55528 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, I'm going to add my little bit of speculation regarding the Conduit/Decision Chamber overlay from yesterday.  This fits with Waking Nightmare Theory. (Heads up, wall of text incoming.)  My wonder now is, given how well the two match up, maybe Shepard had STARTED breaking free from the indoctrination attempt after the Anderson/TIM scene, and was actually awake but in what is a more literal hallucination (I.E. He's seeing things that aren't there or he's seeing things that are there but he's just not seeing them as they really are.).  Now, if so, then this would open some new possibilities.  

That would make the Synthesis beam the "Conduit" beam.  Which means that Shepard would be thrown into the Citadel (The force of the impact from being sent up there being enough to wake him up.), indoctinated (Because he chose Synthesis.), and he would open the arms and dock the Crucible (My personal beliefs are that the Crucible is some kind of Reaper trap and they needed all the fleets in one place to use it to its fullest potential.  That would explain why that brought the Citadel to Earth.), securing Reaper victory.  

In Control, Shepard might be walking over to some kind of electrical panel on the side of the Conduit, and if he grabs it, he'll be fried (And indoctrinated for choosing Control.).  At this point, he'd snap out of the hallucination, and he'd be indoctrinated (And possibly in very bad condition.).  Then, even though he'd be too badly wounded to go to the Citadel (Due to being fried by large amounts of electricity.), he could be evac'ed to receive medical attention, and he could be used as a sleeper agent.

In Destroy, Shepard would walk over to some kind of conduit or explosive of some sort, and he would shoot it, presumably, with a Predator.  The pain from the explosion combined with his resistance of the indoc attempt would snap him out of it, but he would be buried under rubble and pretty badly wounded, and he would have to be found by someone else.  This could be why the kid presents the choice of Destroy.  Even if Shepard's will is too powerful to succumb to indoctrination (This is Destroy after all, it's definitely a way to break free from indoctrination.), he can still hurt Shepard when he breaks free. 

Finally, Rejection.  In Rejection, Shepard realizes, at least subconsciously, that something is wrong.  So, he refuses to take any of the choices.  This has two consequences.  On a mental level, Shepard has broken free from indoctrination by refusing to take any of the choices presented by Star-Brat.  However, Shepard has NOT received any kind of jolt to snap him completely out of the hallucination.  So, now, Shepard needs something to snap him out of it.  This could be his LI, Anderson (In the event that he doesn't have a LI.), or someone or something completely different. 

Now, I know this is a wild hypothesis, and I acknowledge that it might not be the most likely, but I think that something like this would work pretty well.  Also, I give due credit to Arian Dynas for the idea about the "Control" panel  being some kind of electric thing (It was in his ending script.).

No, it's good. But what would Shep do in Synthesis once he opened the arms? If the Crucible is a trap then this is even worse than being a sleeper agent in control, since this means a sudden execution of the Reapers' plans.

There might be an option to have Shepard break free long enough to destroy the Crucible once he learned its true purpose.  However, he would have to sacrifice himself in the process.

Or maybe TIM should learn the true purpose of the Crucible, and sacrifice himself to destroy it, leaving Shepard free to take down Harbinger!

Now that would be awesome. I've always wanted TIM to realize his mistakes and "redeem" himself by sacrificing himself to do something beneficial. Not just kill himself like Saren. Something important. It should have many prerequisites though, like Geth/Quarian peace.

[Dwailing]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, I'm going to add my little bit of speculation regarding the Conduit/Decision Chamber overlay from yesterday.  This fits with Waking Nightmare Theory. (Heads up, wall of text incoming.)  My wonder now is, given how well the two match up, maybe Shepard had STARTED breaking free from the indoctrination attempt after the Anderson/TIM scene, and was actually awake but in what is a more literal hallucination (I.E. He's seeing things that aren't there or he's seeing things that are there but he's just not seeing them as they really are.).  Now, if so, then this would open some new possibilities.  

That would make the Synthesis beam the "Conduit" beam.  Which means that Shepard would be thrown into the Citadel (The force of the impact from being sent up there being enough to wake him up.), indoctinated (Because he chose Synthesis.), and he would open the arms and dock the Crucible (My personal beliefs are that the Crucible is some kind of Reaper trap and they needed all the fleets in one place to use it to its fullest potential.  That would explain why that brought the Citadel to Earth.), securing Reaper victory.  

In Control, Shepard might be walking over to some kind of electrical panel on the side of the Conduit, and if he grabs it, he'll be fried (And indoctrinated for choosing Control.).  At this point, he'd snap out of the hallucination, and he'd be indoctrinated (And possibly in very bad condition.).  Then, even though he'd be too badly wounded to go to the Citadel (Due to being fried by large amounts of electricity.), he could be evac'ed to receive medical attention, and he could be used as a sleeper agent.

In Destroy, Shepard would walk over to some kind of conduit or explosive of some sort, and he would shoot it, presumably, with a Predator.  The pain from the explosion combined with his resistance of the indoc attempt would snap him out of it, but he would be buried under rubble and pretty badly wounded, and he would have to be found by someone else.  This could be why the kid presents the choice of Destroy.  Even if Shepard's will is too powerful to succumb to indoctrination (This is Destroy after all, it's definitely a way to break free from indoctrination.), he can still hurt Shepard when he breaks free. 

Finally, Rejection.  In Rejection, Shepard realizes, at least subconsciously, that something is wrong.  So, he refuses to take any of the choices.  This has two consequences.  On a mental level, Shepard has broken free from indoctrination by refusing to take any of the choices presented by Star-Brat.  However, Shepard has NOT received any kind of jolt to snap him completely out of the hallucination.  So, now, Shepard needs something to snap him out of it.  This could be his LI, Anderson (In the event that he doesn't have a LI.), or someone or something completely different. 

Now, I know this is a wild hypothesis, and I acknowledge that it might not be the most likely, but I think that something like this would work pretty well.  Also, I give due credit to Arian Dynas for the idea about the "Control" panel  being some kind of electric thing (It was in his ending script.).

No, it's good. But what would Shep do in Synthesis once he opened the arms? If the Crucible is a trap then this is even worse than being a sleeper agent in control, since this means a sudden execution of the Reapers' plans.

There might be an option to have Shepard break free long enough to destroy the Crucible once he learned its true purpose.  However, he would have to sacrifice himself in the process.

Or maybe TIM should learn the true purpose of the Crucible, and sacrifice himself to destroy it, leaving Shepard free to take down Harbinger!

And we could kick Harbinger in the proverbial cajones no matter what?  YES!

[memorysquid]

I refuse to accept that the ending was so bad it justifies approaching 2000 pages of posts on a theory that had little supporting evidence to begin with and was completely destroyed by the EC. Let's exercise a little self-control, people.

[Iconoclaste]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...
 I believe TIM was on the Citadel when it was moved (can I get confirmatino of this) so this is possible. But again, how do we win after this?

Yes, he fled directly to the Citadel as soon as his base was attacked by the Alliance. Since the "Control room" of the Citadel had remained secret up until this moment, he may have found his way there being guided by the Reapers, since he was already indoctrinated at that moment.

[Chriz Tah Fah]

It makes sense that the Crucible is a trap and the Citadel is bait to draw all the fleets in. But I can't see a win WITHOUT the Crucible. LEVIATHAN you're up. However, unless Leviathan tells us about some weak point on the reapers that could give us a HUGE edge, he will not be enough.

[BansheeOwnage]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

No, it's good. But what would Shep do in Synthesis once he opened the arms? If the Crucible is a trap then this is even worse than being a sleeper agent in control, since this means a sudden execution of the Reapers' plans.

That is why no one cheers in the sequence where the Reapers fly away (which was already in pre EC), in Control it's still a distinction if they cheer or not based on EMS.

That's quite interesting actually. Especially if you combine it with related things, like the marines fighting much more effectively in destroy.

Note: that scene was added. Many added scenes have more importance.

[BansheeOwnage]

memorysquid wrote...

I refuse to accept that the ending was so bad it justifies approaching 2000 pages of posts on a theory that had little supporting evidence to begin with and was completely destroyed by the EC. Let's exercise a little self-control, people.

Go to page 1, read the evidence. If it has little supporting evidence it shouldn't take too long huh?

[Chriz Tah Fah]

memorysquid wrote...

I refuse to accept that the ending was so bad it justifies approaching 2000 pages of posts on a theory that had little supporting evidence to begin with and was completely destroyed by the EC. Let's exercise a little self-control, people.

Little evidence? Ask us a question about the ending and see if we can't answer it with the indoctrination theory. Granted, we can't answer everything, but we can answer a lot.

[RavenEyry]

memorysquid wrote...

I refuse to accept that the ending was so bad it justifies approaching 2000 pages of posts on a theory that had little supporting evidence to begin with and was completely destroyed by the EC. Let's exercise a little self-control, people.

Little evidence apart from all the evidence of course. Still, it'd by nice to see the version of EC you got because apparently it's different to ours.

[MaximizedAction]

Don't feed it, please!

[BansheeOwnage]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

It makes sense that the Crucible is a trap and the Citadel is bait to draw all the fleets in. But I can't see a win WITHOUT the Crucible. LEVIATHAN you're up. However, unless Leviathan tells us about some weak point on the reapers that could give us a HUGE edge, he will not be enough.

I don't know. He did survive for millions of years with reapers as pursuers.

[BansheeOwnage]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Don't feed it, please!

I'm done.

[memorysquid]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

I refuse to accept that the ending was so bad it justifies approaching 2000 pages of posts on a theory that had little supporting evidence to begin with and was completely destroyed by the EC. Let's exercise a little self-control, people.

Little evidence? Ask us a question about the ending and see if we can't answer it with the indoctrination theory. Granted, we can't answer everything, but we can answer a lot.

I just wanted to encode most of the endings in a cryptic way and see if you conspiracy minded types would catch it.  This was pure trollery.

Seriously, the EC pretty much puts a stake through the heart here.  Literary theories are always on shaky ground when a writer can simply turn around and say, nope, that's not what I meant.

[Chriz Tah Fah]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

It makes sense that the Crucible is a trap and the Citadel is bait to draw all the fleets in. But I can't see a win WITHOUT the Crucible. LEVIATHAN you're up. However, unless Leviathan tells us about some weak point on the reapers that could give us a HUGE edge, he will not be enough.

I don't know. He did survive for millions of years with reapers as pursuers.

I am not arguing that Leviathan isn't bad azz. I'm just saying that he probably wont amount the ridiculous amount of help that we need. Survivng/running is a lot different than actively fighting multiple reapers at once for the entire time he has been "alive."

[BansheeOwnage]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...
 I believe TIM was on the Citadel when it was moved (can I get confirmatino of this) so this is possible. But again, how do we win after this?

Yes, he fled directly to the Citadel as soon as his base was attacked by the Alliance. Since the "Control room" of the Citadel had remained secret up until this moment, he may have found his way there being guided by the Reapers, since he was already indoctrinated at that moment.

In the literal ending, there is a "control room" that no one has been to before. I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet, but I find the existance of that room implausible. Isn't it on the "bottom" of the citadel tower? Has no one looked there before, you know, on space tours, or routine maintenance?

[BansheeOwnage]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

It makes sense that the Crucible is a trap and the Citadel is bait to draw all the fleets in. But I can't see a win WITHOUT the Crucible. LEVIATHAN you're up. However, unless Leviathan tells us about some weak point on the reapers that could give us a HUGE edge, he will not be enough.

I don't know. He did survive for millions of years with reapers as pursuers.

I am not arguing that Leviathan isn't bad azz. I'm just saying that he probably wont amount the ridiculous amount of help that we need. Survivng/running is a lot different than actively fighting multiple reapers at once for the entire time he has been "alive."

Yeah, though he might shed light on breaking indoc, which could be the silver bullet.

[BleedingUranium]

memorysquid wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

I refuse to accept that the ending was so bad it justifies approaching 2000 pages of posts on a theory that had little supporting evidence to begin with and was completely destroyed by the EC. Let's exercise a little self-control, people.

Little evidence? Ask us a question about the ending and see if we can't answer it with the indoctrination theory. Granted, we can't answer everything, but we can answer a lot.

I just wanted to encode most of the endings in a cryptic way and see if you conspiracy minded types would catch it.  This was pure trollery.

Seriously, the EC pretty much puts a stake through the heart here.  Literary theories are always on shaky ground when a writer can simply turn around and say, nope, that's not what I meant.

Sure, execpt for two small points:

-EC did not remove a single piece of IT evidence (other than adding the pickup scene, which adds more than before )

-Bioware stated, in no uncertain terms, that EC is not meant to disprove IT.

[Chriz Tah Fah]

memorysquid wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

I refuse to accept that the ending was so bad it justifies approaching 2000 pages of posts on a theory that had little supporting evidence to begin with and was completely destroyed by the EC. Let's exercise a little self-control, people.

Little evidence? Ask us a question about the ending and see if we can't answer it with the indoctrination theory. Granted, we can't answer everything, but we can answer a lot.

I just wanted to encode most of the endings in a cryptic way and see if you conspiracy minded types would catch it.  This was pure trollery.

Seriously, the EC pretty much puts a stake through the heart here.  Literary theories are always on shaky ground when a writer can simply turn around and say, nope, that's not what I meant.

But the EC only added evidence, it did not take evidence away. IMO the EC was just to keep Bioware from getting lynched by the "fans." The extra "closure" that Bioware provided didn't do anything but create more questions for many of the IT fans. Thinking about it literally, sure the EC provided enough closure but if Bioware wanted to kill the IT then they would have removed evidence, fixed the things we caught, and not put an ambiguous "breath" scene. That would have been a stake in the heart.

Edit: i'll be back in about an hour.

Modifié par Chriz Tah Fah, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:31 .

[Massa FX]

Wow. So many posts! But lots of repeating opinions.

[Andromidius]

memorysquid wrote...

I refuse to accept that the ending was so bad it justifies approaching 2000 pages of posts on a theory that had little supporting evidence to begin with and was completely destroyed by the EC. Let's exercise a little self-control, people.

1/ If you like the ending, then good for you.
2/ Its actually closer to 5,000 pages since there was two threads.
3/ There's plenty of evidence, if you could be bothered to check.
4/ The EC actually made the theory stronger.
5/ We're exercising plenty of self-control, instead of raging like many others who disliked the endings.

[Arian Dynas]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I sugguested the same thing about the Multiplayer operations actually. Get enough players to play MP and raise their EMS, have more people see the ending with Shepard in Destroy.

It's rather clever actually.

As for people who don't do the side quests, well, they clearly don't care much for the game anyway, so I doub't they'd buy the DLC. 

Arian you seem to forget that the gibbed save editor solved the EMS problem a long time ago (at least for the PC players. Don't know if it works for the PS3 or XBox). I never played MP and still got the perfect ending (already before EC), as well as I could lower my EMS to 200. A lot of people who don't like or can't play MP did the same.

Furthermore they lowered the necessary EMS to 3100 for the perfect ending in the EC, which is easy to obtain without MP.

If MP is played now, it's just because people like it. It has no longer any influence on the endings.

As for the next DLCs and especially the Leviathan one, I wouldn't be surprised if it added some dialogue lines when you meet the brat or that it would allow the endings to be interpretated from a completely different perspective. After all, before the EC they said that it won't be any new ending and we still got the "So be it" one.

...

Jo, you're completely forgetting about Xbox players, PC players who don't want to use Gibbed Save editor or don't know about it, and just the fact that you do not and cannot count on a 3RD PARTY creation in your marketing campaign.

[RavenEyry]

So many people have said EC destroys IT but I've yet to see one explain how.

[Iconoclaste]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

In the literal ending, there is a "control room" that no one has been to before. I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet, but I find the existance of that room implausible. Isn't it on the "bottom" of the citadel tower? Has no one looked there before, you know, on space tours, or routine maintenance?

This can be explained by "the changing configuration of the area" not allowing anyone close to it, and the Keepers undoing any modification done to the Citadel that doesn't fit their "agenda". The main problem with this room is that it has very large windows, so it's virtually impossible this room went undetected for thousands of years from an outside wanderer. Speculation for everyone.

[smokingotter1]

Massa FX wrote...

Wow. So many posts! But lots of repeating opinions.

I agree. There are a lot of posts, but people keep repeating opinions.

[Dwailing]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Wow. So many posts! But lots of repeating opinions.

I agree. There are a lot of posts, but people keep repeating opinions.

We have achieved consensus.