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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#48351
masster blaster

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[quote]Rosewind wrote...

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

[quote]TSA_383 wrote...





Edit: I actually just wanted to know if this is well known, or of no matter. (I am NOT talking about rebar.)
[/quote]
The background (vehicle?)? Yeah, like I was saying earlier, to me it looks like this:
Posted Image
(Beware low quality model from beam run)

Only problem with that is I don't see wheels...

[/quote]

could have been blow off, or some of the wheels are missing, but a few are there, but they are covered by the dense smoke.

[/quote]

Isn't that the Grizzly?

Edit: Gasp if it is OMG EVIDENCE!!! Vega talks about the grizzly being his fav vehicle!!!! and no one uses the grizzly since before ME1

[/quote]

Or carp, but weren't there some Grizzlys at the FOB?

#48352
Chriz Tah Fah

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masster blaster wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...
Edit: I actually just wanted to know if this is well known, or of no matter. (I am NOT talking about rebar.)

*snip*

could have been blow off, or some of the wheels are missing, but a few are there, but they are covered by the dense smoke.

Isn't that the Grizzly?

Edit: Gasp if it is OMG EVIDENCE!!! Vega talks about the grizzly being his fav vehicle!!!! and no one uses the grizzly since before ME1

Or carp, but weren't there some Grizzlys at the FOB?


Vega is one of the characters that are 100% alive no matter what you do to them in the playthrough. It is possible that he drove a grizzly to pick up Shepard? I am doubtful of this though.

Modifié par Chriz Tah Fah, 16 juillet 2012 - 08:57 .


#48353
masster blaster

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TSA is it possible they used the EMP on the dreadnought mission on Ranncho, as the wave that is chasing the Normandy?

#48354
HellishFiend

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masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I'm right here. What do you mean by word?

Sorry for the lack of conversation lately. I've mostly been lurking while I work on the video. Getting sucked into the thread is sorta bad for productivity. :crying:

#48355
masster blaster

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HellishFiend wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I'm right here. What do you mean by word?

Sorry for the lack of conversation lately. I've mostly been lurking while I work on the video. Getting sucked into the thread is sorta bad for productivity. :crying:


well I wanted you to read the last three pages, and see what you think. oh and do you like my new avatar hellish?

Modifié par masster blaster, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:04 .


#48356
HellishFiend

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masster blaster wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I'm right here. What do you mean by word?

Sorry for the lack of conversation lately. I've mostly been lurking while I work on the video. Getting sucked into the thread is sorta bad for productivity. :crying:


well I wanted you to read the last three pages, and see what you think. oh and do you like my new avatar hellish?


Will take a while to get used to, but it's unique. :D

#48357
lex0r11

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masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I just got back, why do you call upon the IT Council (lol)?

Anything I should read? It might take ahwile for me to check all the new posts.

#48358
paxxton

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lex0r11 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I just got back, why do you call upon the IT Council (lol)?

Anything I should read? It might take ahwile for me to check all the new posts.

There was a discussion on the meaning of the Stargazer scene.

#48359
masster blaster

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paxxton wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I just got back, why do you call upon the IT Council (lol)?

Anything I should read? It might take ahwile for me to check all the new posts.

There was a discussion on the meaning of the Stargazer scene.


Yes and I am Udina now. oh and you should read the last three pages. They are quite good.

#48360
paxxton

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masster blaster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I just got back, why do you call upon the IT Council (lol)?

Anything I should read? It might take ahwile for me to check all the new posts.

There was a discussion on the meaning of the Stargazer scene.


Yes and I am Udina now. oh and you should read the last three pages. They are quite good.

LOL. So you side with Cerberus now?

#48361
Arian Dynas

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What's this I should be commenting about?

Oh and by the way, I got a PM from TullyAckland. It's not quite the same as it would be coming from the mouth of Gamble, but...

Arian Dynas wrote...
I wanted to say; thank you. Thank you for thinking of us and at least attempting to make things better for your fans with the Extended cut. But I personally at least, am still denied closure.

Are there more secrets? Have we answered everything about the ending?

Is indoctrination theory officially off the table?

Because if that is the case, then I will be honest when I describe Synthesis and Control as hypocritical and thematically revolting, since they align so incredibly closely with the motivations of the two major VILLAINS of ME1 and ME3, while every single person on Shepard's side was firmly in the camp of Destroy.

Why go a complete 180 of the message there? It renders both Shepard and the entire story, completely pointless to be blunt.

Also, if, as I said Indoctrination is off the table, what then is the point of the dreams? The child?

Or is Indoctrination theory merely neither confirmed or denied? The Extended Cut merely intended to be what you originally wanted to have as the on disc ending, letting us fill in the blanks ourselves and draw our own conclusions from there,but at least satisfying those who didn't want to look deeper? A sort of "Was Deckard a Replicant" deal for us to speculate about?

Is there more to come? ME4? A sort of "Arrival" for ME4? An expansion pack? If that's the case, can I advise adding a "To be Continued" title card just after the breath scene? Or is it as Madeline said "That's all there is, there isn't anymore."?

We, I and many of my friends, feel like we were left unmoored, hanging, unresolved. Yes our smaller questions got answered, but some of the bigger ones are still there.

As a matter of fact, if all that was ever going to happen in the end was us getting jossed, why let us build up the anticipation at all? Why did you want speculation?Because to be honest, if there isn't ever going to be a payoff of any kind, it would be considerably less cruel to just let us down easy right now.

You don't have to answer my questions, but it would make me feel alot better if you were to. Even a "We have neither denied or confirmed Indoctrination Theory" would give me hope, or maybe you can blink a few times or something, because, it does come down to personal taste, but I just really don't like the implications of taking the endings literally.

One way or another, if you decide to indulge me or not, I'd like to know if you get this. So I'll part saying I love Mass Effect, I love your work, and I love Bioware, never stopped. I've been playing Baldur's Gate, Infinity Engine games inspired by it and a handful of others since I was 9 years old. I'll still be looking forward to the release of Dragon Age 3 as well. And well, if nothing else, the Extended Cut, if meant to be taken literally, at least made the endings bearable. If I have given offense anywhere in this little letter, I apologize, for no where was it my intent, I'd just like a little bit of closure from the men (and women) in charge.

-With breathless anticipation, Arian Dynas, Indoctrinationist


TullyAckland wrote...
I've stated many, many times (and been quoted for it) that we've neither confirmed or denied the Indoctrination Theory (and we won't).

You're asking me to announce what our plans are next and if you've followed game design for a while you'll know that's not going to happen. What I can say is that Mass Effect, in any shape or form isn't over, there's a lot more to come, you'll see that in the future.


Arian Dynas wrote...
That's all I needed. Thank you Mr.Ackland.

Though I will say, neither confirming NOR denying would make the process of making sequels rather difficult, though, I know you can't say anything about it one way or another.

But, you have told me one thing that'll shut the trolls up. Thanks.


Modifié par Arian Dynas, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:20 .


#48362
lex0r11

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paxxton wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I just got back, why do you call upon the IT Council (lol)?

Anything I should read? It might take ahwile for me to check all the new posts.

There was a discussion on the meaning of the Stargazer scene.


Yeah? Could you link me to a specific post? Otherwise, give me 20 to get up to speed.

#48363
masster blaster

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paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I just got back, why do you call upon the IT Council (lol)?

Anything I should read? It might take ahwile for me to check all the new posts.

There was a discussion on the meaning of the Stargazer scene.


Yes and I am Udina now. oh and you should read the last three pages. They are quite good.

LOL. So you side with Cerberus now?


No, but they are my solution. For chaos.^_^:devil:

#48364
HellishFiend

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paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I just got back, why do you call upon the IT Council (lol)?

Anything I should read? It might take ahwile for me to check all the new posts.

There was a discussion on the meaning of the Stargazer scene.


Yes and I am Udina now. oh and you should read the last three pages. They are quite good.

LOL. So you side with Cerberus now?


You're one to talk. You're using a "hey look at me, I'm indoctrinated!" sig banner.

#48365
Arian Dynas

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Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...
I just realised that Urz would've been so much more awesome on the Normandy than that stupid mechdog.

I wouldn't know. EA screwed me out of a collectors edition. I'm still bitter even after all this time plus endings. I wanted that artbook.


I got my collectors edition a month and a half after release. I had to go really deep into chinatown to find a gamestore that still had it for a reasonable price :pinched:.


I had to jump through hoops with Gamestop like you wouldn't believe.

#48366
HellishFiend

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Tully's response can easily be taken as points for IT, unless you assume that all future ME titles/content will be prior to the literal endings. There is no conceivable way to handle the divergence created by those endings unless they canonize one of them, which they already stated they are not going to do.

#48367
masster blaster

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Arian Dynas wrote...

What's this I should be commenting about?

Oh and by the way, I got a PM from TullyAckland. It's not quite the same as it would be coming from the mouth of Gamble, but...

Arian Dynas wrote...
I wanted to say; thank you. Thank you for thinking of us and at least attempting to make things better for your fans with the Extended cut. But I personally at least, am still denied closure.

Are there more secrets? Have we answered everything about the ending?

Is indoctrination theory officially off the table?

Because if that is the case, then I will be honest when I describe Synthesis and Control as hypocritical and thematically revolting, since they align so incredibly closely with the motivations of the two major VILLAINS of ME1 and ME3, while every single person on Shepard's side was firmly in the camp of Destroy.

Why go a complete 180 of the message there? It renders both Shepard and the entire story, completely pointless to be blunt.

Also, if, as I said Indoctrination is off the table, what then is the point of the dreams? The child?

Or is Indoctrination theory merely neither confirmed or denied? The Extended Cut merely intended to be what you originally wanted to have as the on disc ending, letting us fill in the blanks ourselves and draw our own conclusions from there,but at least satisfying those who didn't want to look deeper? A sort of "Was Deckard a Replicant" deal for us to speculate about?

Is there more to come? ME4? A sort of "Arrival" for ME4? An expansion pack? If that's the case, can I advise adding a "To be Continued" title card just after the breath scene? Or is it as Madeline said "That's all there is, there isn't anymore."?

We, I and many of my friends, feel like we were left unmoored, hanging, unresolved. Yes our smaller questions got answered, but some of the bigger ones are still there.

As a matter of fact, if all that was ever going to happen in the end was us getting jossed, why let us build up the anticipation at all? Why did you want speculation?Because to be honest, if there isn't ever going to be a payoff of any kind, it would be considerably less cruel to just let us down easy right now.

You don't have to answer my questions, but it would make me feel alot better if you were to. Even a "We have neither denied or confirmed Indoctrination Theory" would give me hope, or maybe you can blink a few times or something, because, it does come down to personal taste, but I just really don't like the implications of taking the endings literally.

One way or another, if you decide to indulge me or not, I'd like to know if you get this. So I'll part saying I love Mass Effect, I love your work, and I love Bioware, never stopped. I've been playing Baldur's Gate, Infinity Engine games inspired by it and a handful of others since I was 9 years old. I'll still be looking forward to the release of Dragon Age 3 as well. And well, if nothing else, the Extended Cut, if meant to be taken literally, at least made the endings bearable. If I have given offense anywhere in this little letter, I apologize, for no where was it my intent, I'd just like a little bit of closure from the men (and women) in charge.

-With breathless anticipation, Arian Dynas, Indoctrinationist


TullyAckland wrote...
I've stated many, many times (and been quoted for it) that we've neither confirmed or denied the Indoctrination Theory (and we won't).

You're asking me to announce what our plans are next and if you've followed game design for a while you'll know that's not going to happen. What I can say is that Mass Effect, in any shape or form isn't over, there's a lot more to come, you'll see that in the future.


Arian Dynas wrote...
That's all I needed. Thank you Mr.Ackland.

Though I will say, neither confirming NOR denying would make the process of making sequels rather difficult, though, I know you can't say anything about it one way or another.

But, you have told me one thing that'll shut the trolls up. Thanks.


That's either really go or really bad, if he means ME3 is not over, or Shepard's story is, but not ME Univery.

#48368
Arian Dynas

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HellishFiend wrote...

Tully's response can easily be taken as points for IT, unless you assume that all future ME titles/content will be prior to the literal endings. There is no conceivable way to handle the divergence created by those endings unless they canonize one of them, which they already stated they are not going to do.


Well, come to think of it, they can't really canonize whether Shepard becomes indoctrinated or not.

They can write more AFTERWORDS, but whether or not the player and thus Shepard was indoctrinated or not is a choice they will not canonize, just like Shepard's bacground and gender.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:26 .


#48369
Simon_Says

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Sorry that I'm resurecting an ancient post but...

Lord Goose wrote...

It is actually possible to not care about geht at all. As player and as Shepard.

I'm doing renegade playthrough with female Shepard (Judith Shepard, Ruthless, Colonist) and just finished Rannoch mission.

It is possible to agree with idea of destroying the geth in the beginning. It is possible to criticise Legion for lying at least three times. It is possible to make decision ''the geth should die'' and use renegade interruption to tell Legion what he and his kind are just machines, hacked by the Reapers, and they should be destroyed as payback for siding with the Reapers.

If you do so, it would be impossible to even think about peace at first. First choice would be between ''let Legion upload the code'' and ''let geth die''. If you choose the latter, Legion will try to persuade Shepard to let them live, because they can help save Earth.

Only after that it is possible to establish peace between them.

Now can someone tell me, what makes Reapers think that Judith Shepard would not choose Destroy because of geth and EDI? They are obviously can read her mind, because visions are different for Renegade and Paragon.

Because the way the Catalyst presented Destroy was twofold if you recall.
  • Synthetics will die.
  • Synthetics will come back to wipe out organics.
Basically the Catalyst presented a problem, said the reapers prevent that problem, says that control will contain the problem, that synthesis will solve the problem, and destroy will merely delay the problem.

#48370
lex0r11

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...
I just realised that Urz would've been so much more awesome on the Normandy than that stupid mechdog.

I wouldn't know. EA screwed me out of a collectors edition. I'm still bitter even after all this time plus endings. I wanted that artbook.


I got my collectors edition a month and a half after release. I had to go really deep into chinatown to find a gamestore that still had it for a reasonable price :pinched:.


I had to jump through hoops with Gamestop like you wouldn't believe.


I called upon my friend in England, got it for practically nothing!

#48371
masster blaster

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HellishFiend wrote...

Tully's response can easily be taken as points for IT, unless you assume that all future ME titles/content will be prior to the literal endings. There is no conceivable way to handle the divergence created by those endings unless they canonize one of them, which they already stated they are not going to do.


Then what's the point of not including Shepard's choice for the next cycle, if there is no canon ending for ME4.

Modifié par masster blaster, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:26 .


#48372
paxxton

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lex0r11 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So any word from Byne, Arian, Turbo, Hellish, and Lex, yet?


I just got back, why do you call upon the IT Council (lol)?

Anything I should read? It might take ahwile for me to check all the new posts.

There was a discussion on the meaning of the Stargazer scene.


Yeah? Could you link me to a specific post? Otherwise, give me 20 to get up to speed.

Starts here:
http://social.biowar...2/1932#13170644

#48373
HellishFiend

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Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Tully's response can easily be taken as points for IT, unless you assume that all future ME titles/content will be prior to the literal endings. There is no conceivable way to handle the divergence created by those endings unless they canonize one of them, which they already stated they are not going to do.


Well, come to think of it, they can't really canonize whether Shepard becomes indoctrinated or not.


You mean just like they couldnt canonize whether Shepard dies at the end of ME2 or not? I'm actually going to jump out of character and paraphrase Merizan here: "Well, if that's how you see it, then that's how your story ends".

#48374
paxxton

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lex0r11 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...
I just realised that Urz would've been so much more awesome on the Normandy than that stupid mechdog.

I wouldn't know. EA screwed me out of a collectors edition. I'm still bitter even after all this time plus endings. I wanted that artbook.


I got my collectors edition a month and a half after release. I had to go really deep into chinatown to find a gamestore that still had it for a reasonable price :pinched:.


I had to jump through hoops with Gamestop like you wouldn't believe.


I called upon my friend in England, got it for practically nothing!

I bought the standard edition because there wasn't really anything worth 60$. Except the hoodie but I didn't know about it then.

EDIT: Top, top, top. Once again. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:32 .


#48375
Arian Dynas

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HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Tully's response can easily be taken as points for IT, unless you assume that all future ME titles/content will be prior to the literal endings. There is no conceivable way to handle the divergence created by those endings unless they canonize one of them, which they already stated they are not going to do.


Well, come to think of it, they can't really canonize whether Shepard becomes indoctrinated or not.


You mean just like they couldnt canonize whether Shepard dies at the end of ME2 or not? I'm actually going to jump out of character and paraphrase Merizan here: "Well, if that's how you see it, then that's how your story ends".


That, but I was talking more like Was Shepard a colonist, or Was Shepard a spacer? Is Shepard a man or a Woman? Did Shepard save the Rachni, or wipe them out?