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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#48601
Arian Dynas

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Arian

I definitely like the nightmare scenes here, falls in line with Shepard's nightmares and a tie in to the potential warning nature of them/PTSD. Ties into the previous games with Lazarus Station and Virmire.


Do they seem too obvious as indoctrination?

Since Bioware said they would never come out and directly say it, I am trying to say "Indoctrination" as much as I can without having to resort to using the I-word.


In that case it seems only obvious to those of us who believe indoctrination already. It's a step in the right direction though, but I'm still seeing it as mostly a PTSD nightmare concerning the beam run and Starchild conversation. Honestly, I don't think the majority of fans are going to get it unless someone like Anderson speaks up and says "Listen to yourself, you're indoctrinated!"


That and for the sundry and various hallucinations of many horrendous and lurid forms I am going to be working into this puppy, I gave the explanation of concussions.

But, well, I CAN basically go "Hey! Indoctrination!" *stops foot* Get it? *stops foot*

#48602
gunslinger_ruiz

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Adendum: Hm, maybe have that specific line from Anderson swimming around Shepard's head during the nightmare. Even some from the Illusive Man "I need you to believe" but that line only works if you picked the renegade dialogue in that exchange so a less specific line.
"Your belief is not required"
"Like a cleansing fire, we restore balance."
Could even have snippets of every character that ever utters the word "Indoctrinated" kind of like during the nightmares where the dead squad whispers "Shepard." But maybe in a later nightmare, or later in this one... Just a suggestion.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 17 juillet 2012 - 09:22 .


#48603
Arian Dynas

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Adendum: Hm, maybe have that specific line from Anderson swimming around Shepard's head during the nightmare. Even some from the Illusive Man "I need you to believe" but that line only works if you picked the renegade dialogue in that exchange so a less specific line.
"Your belief is not required"
"Like a cleansing fire, we restore balance."
Could even have snippets of every character that ever utters the word "Indoctrinated" kind of like during the nightmares where the dead squad whispers "Shepard." But maybe in a later nightmare, or later in this one... Just a suggestion.


All very good sugguestions. Coupled with the others you gave me last page, consider yourself co-credited.

#48604
gunslinger_ruiz

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Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Adendum: Hm, maybe have that specific line from Anderson swimming around Shepard's head during the nightmare. Even some from the Illusive Man "I need you to believe" but that line only works if you picked the renegade dialogue in that exchange so a less specific line.
"Your belief is not required"
"Like a cleansing fire, we restore balance."
Could even have snippets of every character that ever utters the word "Indoctrinated" kind of like during the nightmares where the dead squad whispers "Shepard." But maybe in a later nightmare, or later in this one... Just a suggestion.


All very good sugguestions. Coupled with the others you gave me last page, consider yourself co-credited.


/Salute. Happy to help.

#48605
CoolioThane

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Synthesis is not a ****ing valid choice

#48606
Rosewind

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CoolioThane wrote...

Synthesis is not a ****ing valid choice


*Pats shoulder* It's okay I agree but let them doom them selves.

#48607
lex0r11

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Arian, I have a question about 3 - Rat In A Maze.

Who is GUARDIAN? Is he supposed to be a reaper/reaper voice or am I mixing something up here.

Also, if this is to be a point were the indoctrination is starting to be revealed, maybe add something like this: Make the dream whispers of the squad/friends become gradually louder the closer one gets to the door the child took, giving an incentive for the player to think about it again. And culminating in making the voices very distinct when right in front of it.

Modifié par lex0r11, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:03 .


#48608
CoolioThane

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lex0r11 wrote...

Arian, I have a question about 3 - Rat In A Maze.

Who is GUARDIAN? Is he supposed to be a reaper/reaper voice or am I mixing something up here.

Also, if this is to be a point were the indoctrination is starting to be revealed, maybe add something like this: Make the dream whispers of the squad/friends become gradually louder the closer one gets to the door the child took, giving an incentive for the player to think about it again. And culminating in making the voices very distinct when right in front of it.


Guardian is Starbrat I think

#48609
SubAstris

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CoolioThane wrote...

Synthesis is not a ****ing valid choice


It may not be appetising, that is for the player to decide, and that's what BW wanted for their ending

#48610
Arian Dynas

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lex0r11 wrote...

Arian, I have a question about 3 - Rat In A Maze.

Who is GUARDIAN? Is he supposed to be a reaper/reaper voice or am I mixing something up here.

Also, if this is to be a point were the indoctrination is starting to be revealed, maybe add something like this: Make the dream whispers of the squad/friends become gradually louder the closer one gets to the door the child took, giving an incentive for the player to think about it again. And culminating in making the voices very distinct when right in front of it.


The Guardian is the game file name for the being that identifies itself as The Catalyst. The Crucible location was called the Guardian's Garden in an earlier draft.

And making the voices louder as you get nearer to the child would probably entice people to go after him. But perhaps things like people whispering (like they do in the dreams now) "Don't trust him" "He lies" ect. that and in hindsight, I need to work in some Reaper horns there.

Either way, before I go to bed, have some Ashy goodness. Let me know what you lot think, I'm a bit worried that the characterization of Shepard and Ashley both might be off.

 
5 - Sturm Und Drang

[Shepard sits up, and the scene changes here depending on who your LI was. Since I am only truly familiar with Ashley, she is the one I will write for, if someone else, more familiar with one of the other LI's wants me to write the entry concerning them, and is willing to check it for errors in characterization and such, I will do so happily. Until then, we're sticking with my girl.]

[The room is dark. Rain's pattering on the windows, sitting in a chair next to a small fireplace is Lieutenant Commander Ashley Williams. The fire is nothing more than a holographic video concealing a space heater. But it throws off a little light and makes crackling noises just the same. Williams seems to be asleep, but as Shepard moves slightly, she snaps awake.]

ASHLEY [Smiling]: Hey Skipper.

[She looks rough, like she hasn't been getting much sleep, and her face has a nasty bruise discoloring half of it.]

SHEPARD: Ash! What are you doing here?

ASHLEY: Well, I was paying you a visit since they told me you came out of that coma, but you were still out, so I decided to wait for you. I guess I fell asleep.

[She indicates a book lying next to her chair, likely the same collection of Tennyson poems you bought her when she was in a similar situation to yours.]

ASHLEY: It's kind of funny, you know? It's barely been a few months and now... and now you're... I thought I lost you again, Skipper.

["I'm here to stay" "Part of the job."]

SHEPARD [I'M HERE TO STAY"]: I promise Ash. No more getting killed. Once was enough for a liftime.

[Ashley snerks and smiles through her tears, reaching over to Shepard and wrapping her arms around his neck, he reaches up and gently grasps her arms, resting his head against her cheek. Then she stands up and begins circling the bed.]

SHEPARD [ALL PART OF THE JOB]: It's part of being a Marine, Ash. You of all people should know what goes with the territory.

ASHLEY [Drying her tears and circling the bed]: You're right. It's just that... it was like the Collectors all over again, and dad dying too. 

ASHLEY: Y.. y'know I felt really bad about... about Horizon.

["Water under the bridge" "This again?"]

SHEPARD [WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE]: Ash. It's done. No need to keep tearing yourself up about it.

SHEPARD [THIS AGAIN?]: Ash, isn't this getting a bit old?

ASHLEY [Continuing]: But that didn't give you any excuse...

[If you cheated in ME2, the dialogue changes here, it also raises the required reputation needed to pass the next Charm and Intimidate checks.] 

ASHLEY: T-to... another woman... Am I not good enough for you?

[If you did not cheat, the dialogue is this;]

Shepard... I just... I don't know what to think anymore. All of this just feels so mixed up and I feel like... like

["Ahhh." [HIGH CHARM] "Enough of this ****!" [HIGH INTIMIDATE] "I.. don't know."]

SHEPARD [CHARM]: Ahhh, so that's what this is really about.

ASHLEY: What?

SHEPARD: You're worried I don't think you're good enough. Like Horizon was suddenly some kind of deal breaker. Well, let me tell you, Williams, Ashley Madeline. I  do think you're good enough, and I wouldn't rather have any other woman beside me. You're a Brigadier General in my book.

[Camera pans around to look at William's face through the rainy window, she's crying, but smiling. She turns around and plants a kiss on Shepard's cheek.]

SHEPARD [INTIMIDATE]: I'm getting real tired of this inferiority complex you've got Williams.

ASHLEY [Snapping to attention]: Sir?

SHEPARD: You've been pushing your baggage off on me since Mars Ash. And it's not fair. You keep acting like it's about Cerberus, or me not being who I was, but really, the only person you're worried isn't who they used to be is you.

ASHLEY: Shepard, I...

SHEPARD [Interrupting]: Stow it. I'm not finished. I told you to get off the ship. There wasn't a damn thing you could have done. If you hadn't left the Normandy, we both would have been breathing vaccum, and that's a fact. Get over it. Siding with Cerberus was my choice, and it wasn't your fault. Now, can we lay this issue to rest, finally?

[Ashley nods curtly, tears streaming down her face and she walks closer and kisses Shepard's cheek]

ASHLEY: I'm sorry.

SHEPARD: I am too. Now, c'mere.

SHEPARD [I... DON'T KNOW.]: Ash... I...

ASHLEY: What? You don't know what to say? You alway's have something to say, even when it's stupid.

SHEPARD: ...

ASHLEY: You know what? It was a mistake coming here.

[Ashley stands up curtly, plants an extremely brief kiss on Shepard's forehead and leaves, slamming the door behind her.]

[If you managed to end the situation without your LI walking out in a huff, congratulations, you just saved your relationship. If not, your romance is cancelled and Shepard gets an extra +5 to the Shepard stress variable.]

[If you managed to Charm or Intimidate in the last conversation, the scene continues. Shepard and Ashley share a kiss and then Ashley sits down in a chair while Shepard lies back and thinks for a moment.]

SHEPARD [Wryly]: "A day may save or sink a realm."

ASHLEY [Smiling]: "A sorrow's crown of sorrow is remembering happier times."

SHEPARD: Speaking of happier times, you haven't called me "Skipper" in a long time. Why the change?

ASHLEY: I... I don't know. I guess I was just sort of...

["Feeling a bit cut off?", "Not quite ready?"]

SHEPARD [FEELING A BIT CUT OFF?]: Feeling a bit seperated? 

SHEPARD [NOT QUITE READY]: Not exactly ready to forgive yet?

ASHLEY: Yeah. 

SHEPARD: Want to talk about it for a bit?

ASHLEY: Nah. We can discuss it in the morning. I shouldn't be keeping you awake. The doctor would have me court-martialed if I slowed down your recovery.

[Bends down and kisses Shepard's forehead.]

ASHLEY: "Rest now, brave soldier. Your fight is done."

SHEPARD [Smiling]: The soldier in that poem is dying you know.

ASHLEY [Smiling]: You ass. It's the thought that counts.

[Ashley turns and leaves the room, gently closing the door behind her. Go to 7.]
____________________________________________________________  

Also, bonus points to anyone who can figure out the significance of this one's title.

#48611
Rosewind

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*Eyes slowly move to face two separate directions*

#48612
lex0r11

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Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]

Also, bonus points to anyone who can figure out the significance of this one's title.


Sturm und Drang was a movement in German literature.
Based on Enlightenment and being a countermovement to the classical way of writing.

I remember it being the first novels about "feelings". Also Sturm means storm and Drang is an urge, meaning something like urge to move, not to stop.

People who went to school here know enough about it I guess.

Modifié par lex0r11, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:25 .


#48613
Rosewind

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lex0r11 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]

Also, bonus points to anyone who can figure out the significance of this one's title.


Sturm und Drang was a movement in literature in German literature.
Based on Enlightenment and being a countermovement to the classical way of writing.

People who went to school here know enough about it I guess.


Ah I love European schooling, way better then anywhere else except in the u.k from what I hear.

#48614
gunslinger_ruiz

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@Arian

In spite of being a full time Liara romancer, that was good and within Ashley's character. Development/character interaction feels right, I didn't think they were fair to her in ME3, not complaining but seems like Kaidan was much more fleshed out if he survived Virmire.
Although I don't think Bioware would give that many dialogue response options, at least with ME3's absence of so many dialogue choices. Then again it's your script, you can write what you want :).

#48615
gunslinger_ruiz

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Rosewind wrote...

*Eyes slowly move to face two separate directions*


It's not that bad :P
It's even spaced for easy reading.

#48616
Arian Dynas

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lex0r11 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]

Also, bonus points to anyone who can figure out the significance of this one's title.


Sturm und Drang was a movement in literature in German literature.
Based on Enlightenment and being a countermovement to the classical way of writing.

People who went to school here know enough about it I guess.


Good, that is where the name comes from, but seeing as you know German, you should be able to tell the rest of the class what it means. Think about it for a moment, and you'll see why it's appropriate. :)

#48617
RavenEyry

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Rosewind wrote...
Ah I love European schooling, way better then anywhere else except in the u.k from what I hear.

The UK is better at everything than everyone! *Plant's flag dramatically*

#48618
Schachmatt123

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

It's always been odd that the red explosion targets all synthetic life (and not any organic life or toasters somehow) while the blue explosion only targets the reapers. It really shows how shoehorned in the negative consequences of destroy were.


I think the red wave targets Reaper code specifically, and kills it. Would explain New-Geth and EDI being killed, and the Reaper bodies along with the Relays NOT exploding/desintigrating.

Does not, however, explain the Husks in EC being vaporized. Not to mention, "You can wipe out all Synthetic life---Even YOU are partly Synthetic."

Let's not forget that in the low EMS destroy ending the red wave also targets and destroy organics Posted Image

#48619
Rosewind

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RavenEyry wrote...

Rosewind wrote...
Ah I love European schooling, way better then anywhere else except in the u.k from what I hear.

The UK is better at everything than everyone! *Plant's flag dramatically*


That's why they are cutting funding to libraries because they think they not helping the school system.....

#48620
Arian Dynas

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Arian

In spite of being a full time Liara romancer, that was good and within Ashley's character. Development/character interaction feels right, I didn't think they were fair to her in ME3, not complaining but seems like Kaidan was much more fleshed out if he survived Virmire.
Although I don't think Bioware would give that many dialogue response options, at least with ME3's absence of so many dialogue choices. Then again it's your script, you can write what you want :).


Well, it is a long dialogue, and plenty of the dialogues lead to the same place, which I actually saw alot of in ME3.

That and most of them WERE investigates, hence why so many. And there is the theory that it's limited for thematic reasons (Shepard's and our loss of control over time...)

#48621
MegumiAzusa

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Rosewind wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]

Also, bonus points to anyone who can figure out the significance of this one's title.


Sturm und Drang was a movement in literature in German literature.
Based on Enlightenment and being a countermovement to the classical way of writing.

People who went to school here know enough about it I guess.


Ah I love European schooling, way better then anywhere else except in the u.k from what I hear.

Norway and or Sweden have the best educational system imo
Germany's is way behind (more and more) actually...

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:26 .


#48622
Chashan

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Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]

 
5 - Sturm Und Drang

[...]

SHEPARD [I'M HERE TO STAY"]: I promise Ash. No more getting killed. Once was enough for a liftime.

[Ashley snerks and smiles through her tears, reaching over to Shepard and wrapping her arms around her neck, she reaches up and gently grasps her arms, resting her head against her cheek. Then she stands up and begins circling the bed.]

[...]

ASHLEY: T-to... another woman... Am I not good enough for you?

[If you did not cheat, the dialogue is this;]

Shepard... I just... I don't know what to think anymore. All of this just feels so mixed up and I feel like... like

["Ahhh." [HIGH CHARM] "Enough of this ****!" [HIGH INTIMIDATE] "I.. don't know."]

SHEPARD [CHARM]: Ahhh, so that's what this is really about.


"Storm and Urge", Johann Wolfgang v. Goethe's name for his youthful days of chasing after the girls. Tasteful.

Do excuse that I replaced the references to Shepard being a Mr with such denoting Shepard a madame. I still got to say that the femme w/ femme-relationship of Shepard and Williams in ME1 is the best well done relationship of the entire series, even if it was "cut" (what hare-brained idiot was responsible for that?).

#48623
Arian Dynas

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Rosewind wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Rosewind wrote...
Ah I love European schooling, way better then anywhere else except in the u.k from what I hear.

The UK is better at everything than everyone! *Plant's flag dramatically*


That's why they are cutting funding to libraries because they think they not helping the school system.....


The European school system is better, but, well all of our school systems suck, since they're based on outdated Enlightenment era ideas and ideals, as well as being focused on standardization and money and less on educational quality.

Yes, I do listen to Sir Ken Robinson, why do you ask?

#48624
RavenEyry

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Rosewind wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Rosewind wrote...
Ah I love European schooling, way better then anywhere else except in the u.k from what I hear.

The UK is better at everything than everyone! *Plant's flag dramatically*


That's why they are cutting funding to libraries because they think they not helping the school system.....

I reject your reality and subsitute my own were they didn't cut a load of aircraft to get enough money to build more aircraft carriers!

#48625
Arian Dynas

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Chashan wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]

 
5 - Sturm Und Drang

[...]

SHEPARD [I'M HERE TO STAY"]: I promise Ash. No more getting killed. Once was enough for a liftime.

[Ashley snerks and smiles through her tears, reaching over to Shepard and wrapping her arms around her neck, she reaches up and gently grasps her arms, resting her head against her cheek. Then she stands up and begins circling the bed.]

[...]

ASHLEY: T-to... another woman... Am I not good enough for you?

[If you did not cheat, the dialogue is this;]

Shepard... I just... I don't know what to think anymore. All of this just feels so mixed up and I feel like... like

["Ahhh." [HIGH CHARM] "Enough of this ****!" [HIGH INTIMIDATE] "I.. don't know."]

SHEPARD [CHARM]: Ahhh, so that's what this is really about.


"Storm and Urge", Johann Wolfgang v. Goethe's name for his youthful days of chasing after the girls. Tasteful.

Do excuse that I replaced the references to Shepard being a Mr with such denoting Shepard a madame. I still got to say that the femme w/ femme-relationship of Shepard and Williams in ME1 is the best well done relationship of the entire series, even if it was "cut" (what hare-brained idiot was responsible for that?).


Bah. Having Gilgamesh in your sig may win you some points, but your argument is still invalid! :happy:

And to answer the original question I posited, I was looking for the less literal, but more common translation applied to the phrase.

Storm and Stress. That and, well we see storms, we see stress, we see romanticism and we see emotional highs and lows. Seemed right to me.