Aller au contenu

Photo

Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


55528 réponses à ce sujet

#48901
munnellyladt

munnellyladt
  • Members
  • 805 messages

masster blaster wrote...

Okay guys I wanted to say what about the helmet we find in the low Destroy ending. I mean the marine that we see is the same one that was trying to help his friend, or marine buddy.Yet in the low Destroy ending the marine with the helmet is dead, and the none helmet guy pulls out the marine's bullet holed helmet.

Yet in the high Destroy ending, we see the Marine with the non hat, help the guy with the helmet up, and they are both ready to die, well the guy who is firing is. But they are about to be taken down by husk, when the evaporate by the Red beam of light.

Yet when in Control, or Synthesis the marine that is hurt cowers in fear, while his friends is being attacked, and it's funny that only Control, and Synthesis have the same scene, yet different explosions, and affects.


Well i thought that that was weird to,but now that i hear you explain it it starts to seem strange.

#48902
N7L4D

N7L4D
  • Members
  • 539 messages
anything new here?

#48903
FreddyCast

FreddyCast
  • Members
  • 329 messages

munnellyladt wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

munnellyladt wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Hey guys, Remember the the mass relay explosions and how it doesn't start in the Sol system. Someone said that the reason the initial blast starts in a different location and not the Sol system is because we never really see which Relay the Crucible blast hits, we just see it hitting A mass relay and not the Sol Mass Relay since we don't see a planet next to it in the cutscene.
Is there anyway to be sure that what the Crucible hit was the Sol Mass Relay and not some random Mass relay?


Well that system is supposed to be the system from arrival,so there shouldn't be a relay at all.

You are assuming that the initial relay blast is the Viper Nebula, which I don't beieve it is, since it's clearly the Apien Crest. But I don't want to get into that debate.
I just want to know whether the Mass Relay we see exploding (Or the circular parts coming apart as we see in the EC) is the Sol System Relay, and not some random relay, whether it be the Viper Nebula, the Apien Crest, or whatever.
The argument from my previous post is from one who believes that the Mass Relay Explosions are not a plothole, but is real. As ITers, we believe it to be a plothole, as well as a hallucination within Shepard's mind. Is there a good explanation in defense of our position?


Well, since the beam must be travelling below the speed of light, I don't see how it could realistically be any other relay...

Crucible beam, at leaet to me, seems to be going faster than the speed of light when you see the entire Galaxy and how fast the beam is moving from relay to relay. Things going at the speed of light would take some time to reach the entire Galaxy.


It uses the mass relay system to go that fast,so i dont think it could get to a relay other than the sol relay that fast.

You have a point.

#48904
munnellyladt

munnellyladt
  • Members
  • 805 messages
Anybody want to try a plaitnum game later?

never played it before but it could be fun.I'm on xbox.

#48905
FellishBeast

FellishBeast
  • Members
  • 1 689 messages

byne wrote...

Stupid Premium Spectre Packs. I'm thinking to myself "I really really want a Paladin!" and it gives me a Paladin pistol.

YOU KNOW THATS NOT WHAT I MEANT, PREMIUM SPECTRE PACK!


I got both today ;)

#48906
Raistlin Majare 1992

Raistlin Majare 1992
  • Members
  • 2 101 messages

N7L4D wrote...

anything new here?


Massive post on Vendetta and the Protheans by me just a page back.

#48907
BleedingUranium

BleedingUranium
  • Members
  • 6 118 messages

masster blaster wrote...

Okay guys I wanted to say what about the helmet we find in the low Destroy ending. I mean the marine that we see is the same one that was trying to help his friend, or marine buddy.Yet in the low Destroy ending the marine with the helmet is dead, and the none helmet guy pulls out the marine's bullet holed helmet.

Yet in the high Destroy ending, we see the Marine with the non hat, help the guy with the helmet up, and they are both ready to die, well the guy who is firing is. But they are about to be taken down by husk, when the evaporate by the Red beam of light.

Yet when in Control, or Synthesis the marine that is hurt cowers in fear, while his friends is being attacked, and it's funny that only Control, and Synthesis have the same scene, yet different explosions, and affects.


I noticed this too, in Destroy the soldiers make a heroic last stand, and do quite well, but in both Control and Synthesis they kinda give up and get overwhelmed. Hmm, that seems oddly familiar...

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:04 .


#48908
SirLugash

SirLugash
  • Members
  • 388 messages
The only reason why the beam is not targeting the Sol Relay is because of it's alignment.
The Citadel was positioned above London, therefore it had a fixed position and I guess that the Citadel locked into the first Relay that matches in that alignment.
This could explain Destroy and Synthesis, but Control ?
The wave is expanding is spherical and even if the other two endings could have been explained with the Citadel's position, Control could not.
The wave would have definitely hit the Sol Relay first.

#48909
Chriz Tah Fah

Chriz Tah Fah
  • Members
  • 433 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Okay guys I wanted to say what about the helmet we find in the low Destroy ending. I mean the marine that we see is the same one that was trying to help his friend, or marine buddy.Yet in the low Destroy ending the marine with the helmet is dead, and the none helmet guy pulls out the marine's bullet holed helmet.

Yet in the high Destroy ending, we see the Marine with the non hat, help the guy with the helmet up, and they are both ready to die, well the guy who is firing is. But they are about to be taken down by husk, when the evaporate by the Red beam of light.

Yet when in Control, or Synthesis the marine that is hurt cowers in fear, while his friends is being attacked, and it's funny that only Control, and Synthesis have the same scene, yet different explosions, and affects.


I noticed this too, in Destroy the soldiers make a heroic last stand, and do quite well, but in both Control and Synthesis they kinda give up and get overwhelmed. Hmm, that seems oddly familiar...


Fimilliar to what? I don't know if I'm completely mind blanking right now or if it just isn't that obvious.

#48910
BleedingUranium

BleedingUranium
  • Members
  • 6 118 messages

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Okay guys I wanted to say what about the helmet we find in the low Destroy ending. I mean the marine that we see is the same one that was trying to help his friend, or marine buddy.Yet in the low Destroy ending the marine with the helmet is dead, and the none helmet guy pulls out the marine's bullet holed helmet.

Yet in the high Destroy ending, we see the Marine with the non hat, help the guy with the helmet up, and they are both ready to die, well the guy who is firing is. But they are about to be taken down by husk, when the evaporate by the Red beam of light.

Yet when in Control, or Synthesis the marine that is hurt cowers in fear, while his friends is being attacked, and it's funny that only Control, and Synthesis have the same scene, yet different explosions, and affects.


I noticed this too, in Destroy the soldiers make a heroic last stand, and do quite well, but in both Control and Synthesis they kinda give up and get overwhelmed. Hmm, that seems oddly familiar...


Fimilliar to what? I don't know if I'm completely mind blanking right now or if it just isn't that obvious.


To Destroy vs Control/Synthesis. Putting up a fight or giving up Posted Image

#48911
Chriz Tah Fah

Chriz Tah Fah
  • Members
  • 433 messages
Mind blank then.

Edit: I considered reject to be more giving up. At least in Control and Synthesis you make a decision. 

Edit again: Did anyone else find it weird that in the pre-EC endings while Joker is frantically trying to fly the Normandy away from the explosion he looks beind him as if looking at the explosion? If i was in his seat and I looked behind me I would see the the door...then the elevator. It isn't like a back window. I would imagine a rear view mirror type thing at least.

Modifié par Chriz Tah Fah, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:12 .


#48912
byne

byne
  • Members
  • 7 813 messages

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Mind blank then.

Edit: I considered reject to be more giving up. At least in Control and Synthesis you make a decision. 

Edit again: Did anyone else find it weird that in the pre-EC endings while Joker is frantically trying to fly the Normandy away from the explosion he looks beind him as if looking at the explosion? If i was in his seat and I looked behind me I would see the the door...then the elevator. It isn't like a back window. I would imagine a rear view mirror type thing at least.


I remember someone made a comic where it showed that Joker looked back because he was looking at your squad from the beam run who had just magically teleported in at that moment, surprising him.

#48913
MaximizedAction

MaximizedAction
  • Members
  • 3 293 messages

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Mind blank then.

Edit: I considered reject to be more giving up. At least in Control and Synthesis you make a decision. 

Edit again: Did anyone else find it weird that in the pre-EC endings while Joker is frantically trying to fly the Normandy away from the explosion he looks beind him as if looking at the explosion? If i was in his seat and I looked behind me I would see the the door...then the elevator. It isn't like a back window. I would imagine a rear view mirror type thing at least.


This is still the case on low-EMS, which is now just the pre-EC low-EMS outcome ending plus extra epilogue.
Didn't someone here suggest that he wasn't looking behind but was looking at where EDI's at?

#48914
BleedingUranium

BleedingUranium
  • Members
  • 6 118 messages

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Mind blank then.

Edit: I considered reject to be more giving up. At least in Control and Synthesis you make a decision. 

Edit again: Did anyone else find it weird that in the pre-EC endings while Joker is frantically trying to fly the Normandy away from the explosion he looks beind him as if looking at the explosion? If i was in his seat and I looked behind me I would see the the door...then the elevator. It isn't like a back window. I would imagine a rear view mirror type thing at least.


I see Reject as giving up too, so let's just say it's interesting because Destroy = good & Control/Synthesis = bad.

I thought Joker looking back was pretty funny too Posted Image

#48915
Dwailing

Dwailing
  • Members
  • 4 566 messages

masster blaster wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Anyway, I had a thought about the trailer.  It showed Big Ben being destroyed, and it looked like the Destroy wave was responsible.  I don't know if this means anything, but is it possible BioWare is hinting that Big Ben was destroyed already, and it's presense in the end sequence is weird?  Also, I thought the other trailer with Coats showed Big Ben being destroyed.


that's true it Big Ben was destroyed in the trailer, and Coats was traped in Big Ben when it came down on him.


Bumping this for speculating.  It seems weird to me that they would show Big Ben being destroyed in TWO SEPARATE TRAILERS and still have it show up in the end sequence.  I doubt that they would just "forget" that they already destroyed it.  And since Shepard wouldn't KNOW that Big Ben was destroyed, he would assume that it's still around since it's, you know, a London landmark.

#48916
Dwailing

Dwailing
  • Members
  • 4 566 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Mind blank then.

Edit: I considered reject to be more giving up. At least in Control and Synthesis you make a decision. 

Edit again: Did anyone else find it weird that in the pre-EC endings while Joker is frantically trying to fly the Normandy away from the explosion he looks beind him as if looking at the explosion? If i was in his seat and I looked behind me I would see the the door...then the elevator. It isn't like a back window. I would imagine a rear view mirror type thing at least.


I see Reject as giving up too, so let's just say it's interesting because Destroy = good & Control/Synthesis = bad.

I thought Joker looking back was pretty funny too Posted Image


Have you listened to the Rejection speech?  That's not giving up. :pinched:  I don't know why people keep saying it is. :?  Anyway, I'm going to repost a hypothesis that I had a few pages ago that could explain the similarities between the run to the beam and the decision chamber.  It also presents a hypothesis for what Rejection is.

Modifié par Dwailing, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:32 .


#48917
MaximizedAction

MaximizedAction
  • Members
  • 3 293 messages

Dwailing wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Anyway, I had a thought about the trailer.  It showed Big Ben being destroyed, and it looked like the Destroy wave was responsible.  I don't know if this means anything, but is it possible BioWare is hinting that Big Ben was destroyed already, and it's presense in the end sequence is weird?  Also, I thought the other trailer with Coats showed Big Ben being destroyed.


that's true it Big Ben was destroyed in the trailer, and Coats was traped in Big Ben when it came down on him.


Bumping this for speculating.  It seems weird to me that they would show Big Ben being destroyed in TWO SEPARATE TRAILERS and still have it show up in the end sequence.  I doubt that they would just "forget" that they already destroyed it.  And since Shepard wouldn't KNOW that Big Ben was destroyed, he would assume that it's still around since it's, you know, a London landmark.


Gotta be honest: my ITer side is frantically fighting the literalist in me who keeps insisting: "Brah, this is just Bioware not paying enough attention to detail."

#48918
Dwailing

Dwailing
  • Members
  • 4 566 messages

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, I'm going to add my little bit of speculation regarding the Conduit/Decision Chamber overlay from yesterday.  This fits with Waking Nightmare Theory. (Heads up, wall of text incoming.)  My wonder now is, given how well the two match up, maybe Shepard had STARTED breaking free from the indoctrination attempt after the Anderson/TIM scene, and was actually awake but in what is a more literal hallucination (I.E. He's seeing things that aren't there or he's seeing things that are there but he's just not seeing them as they really are.).  Now, if so, then this would open some new possibilities.  

That would make the Synthesis beam the "Conduit" beam.  Which means that Shepard would be thrown into the Citadel (The force of the impact from being sent up there being enough to wake him up.), indoctinated (Because he chose Synthesis.), and he would open the arms and dock the Crucible (My personal beliefs are that the Crucible is some kind of Reaper trap and they needed all the fleets in one place to use it to its fullest potential.  That would explain why that brought the Citadel to Earth.), securing Reaper victory.  

In Control, Shepard might be walking over to some kind of electrical panel on the side of the Conduit, and if he grabs it, he'll be fried (And indoctrinated for choosing Control.).  At this point, he'd snap out of the hallucination, and he'd be indoctrinated (And possibly in very bad condition.).  Then, even though he'd be too badly wounded to go to the Citadel (Due to being fried by large amounts of electricity.), he could be evac'ed to receive medical attention, and he could be used as a sleeper agent.

In Destroy, Shepard would walk over to some kind of conduit or explosive of some sort, and he would shoot it, presumably, with a Predator.  The pain from the explosion combined with his resistance of the indoc attempt would snap him out of it, but he would be buried under rubble and pretty badly wounded, and he would have to be found by someone else.  This could be why the kid presents the choice of Destroy.  Even if Shepard's will is too powerful to succumb to indoctrination (This is Destroy after all, it's definitely a way to break free from indoctrination.), he can still hurt Shepard when he breaks free. 

Finally, Rejection.  In Rejection, Shepard realizes, at least subconsciously, that something is wrong.  So, he refuses to take any of the choices.  This has two consequences.  On a mental level, Shepard has broken free from indoctrination by refusing to take any of the choices presented by Star-Brat.  However, Shepard has NOT received any kind of jolt to snap him completely out of the hallucination.  So, now, Shepard needs something to snap him out of it.  This could be his LI, Anderson (In the event that he doesn't have a LI.), or someone or something completely different. 

Now, I know this is a wild hypothesis, and I acknowledge that it might not be the most likely, but I think that something like this would work pretty well.  Also, I give due credit to Arian Dynas for the idea about the "Control" panel ;) being some kind of electric thing (It was in his ending script.).


Bumping for speculation.

#48919
BleedingUranium

BleedingUranium
  • Members
  • 6 118 messages

Dwailing wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Mind blank then.

Edit: I considered reject to be more giving up. At least in Control and Synthesis you make a decision. 

Edit again: Did anyone else find it weird that in the pre-EC endings while Joker is frantically trying to fly the Normandy away from the explosion he looks beind him as if looking at the explosion? If i was in his seat and I looked behind me I would see the the door...then the elevator. It isn't like a back window. I would imagine a rear view mirror type thing at least.


I see Reject as giving up too, so let's just say it's interesting because Destroy = good & Control/Synthesis = bad.

I thought Joker looking back was pretty funny too Posted Image


Have you listened to the Rejection speech?  That's not giving up. Posted Image  I don't know why people keep saying it is. Posted Image  Anyway, I'm going to repost a hypothesis that I had a few pages ago that could explain the similarities between the run to the beam and the decision chamber.  It also presents a hypothesis for what Rejection is.


Arg everyone's picking on my exact wording and not the intention Posted Image I see Reject as the Paragon option, but Destroy is the Charm option. They both have the same intention, but Charm is better worded (etc) and actually gets you what you want. Picking Reject is like picking the standard Paragon option when there's a perfectly good Charm option available. If they had added a breath scene for Reject as well, then I'd be open to either one, but unless they add it, I'm not convinced Reject is as good.

#48920
Dwailing

Dwailing
  • Members
  • 4 566 messages

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Anyway, I had a thought about the trailer.  It showed Big Ben being destroyed, and it looked like the Destroy wave was responsible.  I don't know if this means anything, but is it possible BioWare is hinting that Big Ben was destroyed already, and it's presense in the end sequence is weird?  Also, I thought the other trailer with Coats showed Big Ben being destroyed.


that's true it Big Ben was destroyed in the trailer, and Coats was traped in Big Ben when it came down on him.


Bumping this for speculating.  It seems weird to me that they would show Big Ben being destroyed in TWO SEPARATE TRAILERS and still have it show up in the end sequence.  I doubt that they would just "forget" that they already destroyed it.  And since Shepard wouldn't KNOW that Big Ben was destroyed, he would assume that it's still around since it's, you know, a London landmark.


Gotta be honest: my ITer side is frantically fighting the literalist in me who keeps insisting: "Brah, this is just Bioware not paying enough attention to detail."


It sounds like you need a reminder about how much attention to detail is in the ME series.  Follow the link in my sig for enlightenment. ;)

#48921
Dwailing

Dwailing
  • Members
  • 4 566 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Mind blank then.

Edit: I considered reject to be more giving up. At least in Control and Synthesis you make a decision. 

Edit again: Did anyone else find it weird that in the pre-EC endings while Joker is frantically trying to fly the Normandy away from the explosion he looks beind him as if looking at the explosion? If i was in his seat and I looked behind me I would see the the door...then the elevator. It isn't like a back window. I would imagine a rear view mirror type thing at least.


I see Reject as giving up too, so let's just say it's interesting because Destroy = good & Control/Synthesis = bad.

I thought Joker looking back was pretty funny too Posted Image


Have you listened to the Rejection speech?  That's not giving up. Posted Image  I don't know why people keep saying it is. Posted Image  Anyway, I'm going to repost a hypothesis that I had a few pages ago that could explain the similarities between the run to the beam and the decision chamber.  It also presents a hypothesis for what Rejection is.


Arg everyone's picking on my exact wording and not the intention Posted Image I see Reject as the Paragon option, but Destroy is the Charm option. They both have the same intention, but Charm is better worded (etc) and actually gets you what you want. Picking Reject is like picking the standard Paragon option when there's a perfectly good Charm option available. If they had added a breath scene for Reject as well, then I'd be open to either one, but unless they add it, I'm not convinced Reject is as good.


See above.  I personally think that each method has it's stengths and weaknesses.

#48922
BleedingUranium

BleedingUranium
  • Members
  • 6 118 messages

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Anyway, I had a thought about the trailer.  It showed Big Ben being destroyed, and it looked like the Destroy wave was responsible.  I don't know if this means anything, but is it possible BioWare is hinting that Big Ben was destroyed already, and it's presense in the end sequence is weird?  Also, I thought the other trailer with Coats showed Big Ben being destroyed.


that's true it Big Ben was destroyed in the trailer, and Coats was traped in Big Ben when it came down on him.


Bumping this for speculating.  It seems weird to me that they would show Big Ben being destroyed in TWO SEPARATE TRAILERS and still have it show up in the end sequence.  I doubt that they would just "forget" that they already destroyed it.  And since Shepard wouldn't KNOW that Big Ben was destroyed, he would assume that it's still around since it's, you know, a London landmark.


Gotta be honest: my ITer side is frantically fighting the literalist in me who keeps insisting: "Brah, this is just Bioware not paying enough attention to detail."


I just watched the trailer again, and Big Ben doesn't get touched Posted Image

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:42 .


#48923
MaximizedAction

MaximizedAction
  • Members
  • 3 293 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

I just watched the trailer again, and Big Ben doesn't get touched Posted Image


Posted Image

EDIT: Should've linked it for proof:

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:47 .


#48924
Dwailing

Dwailing
  • Members
  • 4 566 messages

BleedingUranium wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Anyway, I had a thought about the trailer.  It showed Big Ben being destroyed, and it looked like the Destroy wave was responsible.  I don't know if this means anything, but is it possible BioWare is hinting that Big Ben was destroyed already, and it's presense in the end sequence is weird?  Also, I thought the other trailer with Coats showed Big Ben being destroyed.


that's true it Big Ben was destroyed in the trailer, and Coats was traped in Big Ben when it came down on him.


Bumping this for speculating.  It seems weird to me that they would show Big Ben being destroyed in TWO SEPARATE TRAILERS and still have it show up in the end sequence.  I doubt that they would just "forget" that they already destroyed it.  And since Shepard wouldn't KNOW that Big Ben was destroyed, he would assume that it's still around since it's, you know, a London landmark.


Gotta be honest: my ITer side is frantically fighting the literalist in me who keeps insisting: "Brah, this is just Bioware not paying enough attention to detail."


I just watched the trailer again, and Big Ben doesn't get touched Posted Image


Look at this trailer at 1:10: 
  It REALLY looks like the beam is going to bring down Big Ben.  Also, look in the Earth trailer at around... wow, this is an interesting coincidence: 1:09/1:10:  

It seems like they're REALLY trying to imply that Big Ben was destroyed.  And yes, I know in the Earth trailer that that's footage from the medium EMS Destroy ending, I think, but it still seems interesting that they would show Big Ben getting destroyed.

#48925
byne

byne
  • Members
  • 7 813 messages
Did the blue bubble around phantoms when they're invincible get added with this DLC, or was it added a while ago? I havent played MP in a month or so.