55528 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Vendetta needs to be activated by a "Prothean" If you have Javik with you for that mission, he is able to activate everything. If you don't have him with you then Shepard has to do it. I did not notice anything too strange with Vendetta the first time you meet him. The second time on the Cerberus base he does act odd. If Vendetta is feeding Shepard misinformation and Shepard follows it...sounds like a trap to me.

I can't see how the reapers use the Citadel as a trap.

The reaper's strategy so far has been divide and conquer. They cut civilizations off from each other and take them out in pockets, not in full on massive battles. Javik and Vigil confirm how the reapers divided them up throughout the galaxy and cut them off from each other.

To now think that the reapers planned to move the Citadel to earth to bring all of the galaxy's forces onto one spot and risk losing numerous capital ships is unlikely. They were doing just fine making a mess of earth and every other homeworld before the Crucible was leaked to them.

Did you not pay attention in ME1, Epyon? The Citadel has never been anything but  a trap.

The Reapers made it the center of the Relay network so that every cycle would use it as their center of government, storing all census records and such there, then the Reapers would use the Citadel relay to leave dark space, kill the government leaders, crippling the galactic society, use the Citadel to shut down all the Relays, then find the census info so they could easily learn what planets to harvest.

You know what I mean. Moving the Citadel to Earth and conslidating power around it was a trap? I don't see it.

If they were truly trying to protect the Citadel, why not move it to dark space? Hell, why leave the Relay network open at all? Just move all the Reaper forces to the Serpent Nebula and shut down the Relays. It'd be pretty protected then.

And after moving it to Earth, why not simply ignore the allied fleet and focus all efforts on destroying the Crucible? The Reapers may not know that the Crucible can beat them, but surely they know that destroying it would be a huge hit to the morale of the fleet.

[RavenEyry]

It certainly is suspicious they left the relays open when shutting them down is usually the first thing they do after taking the citadel. Could be to get all the allies in one place to get destroyed.

[paxxton]

Turbo_J wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@Turbo_J: How's your and HellishFiend's video going?

I finished writing the narration yesterday, but we still have a long way to go. The story boarding process takes time. I'm rushing John and Amethyst Shepard (my 'canon' who was featured in the FemShep version of the Choose Wisely music video - in my sig.) through all three games again and make save points so we can gather data from anywhere, easily.

Even ME1 has valuable data on Indoctrination. Information that is not listed in the ME2 codex entry added in game during the derelict reaper mission.

It's difficult to stay focused. I find new information every time I play that has nothing to do with the segments we are addressing in the first video. It's a little little overwhelming... mind blowing... and I'm a little thirsty.

You can do it like Shepard did it. Fingers crossed and looking forward to watching it. So it's going to be a definite guide to IT. Good.

[Chriz Tah Fah]

RavenEyry wrote...

It certainly is suspicious they left the relays open when shutting them down is usually the first thing they do after taking the citadel. Could be to get all the allies in one place to get destroyed.

Yeah, and if the reapers really wanted to devide and conquer, why not take the Citadel first then shut down the relays? TA-DA DEVIDED!

Edit: I'd also like to try platinum tonight. Anyone think they're up for it? If I can't justify the effort in doing it or it just goes really poorly then I'll probably go back to farming credits to get the new stuff first.

Modifié par Chriz Tah Fah, 18 juillet 2012 - 03:15 .

[paxxton]

RavenEyry wrote...

It certainly is suspicious they left the relays open when shutting them down is usually the first thing they do after taking the citadel. Could be to get all the allies in one place to get destroyed.

That was a really strange move. Having the Citadel = controlling the relay network = winning the war. Yet they do not take that advantage. Surely suspicious. I agree with the bolded part being the Reapers' motive. But it could also be for story-telling reasons (unite the Galaxy).

Modifié par paxxton, 18 juillet 2012 - 03:17 .

[GeneralBacon339]

 shepard wakes up at the base of the citadel beam and says, "WTF did i just witness?"  Shepard enters citadel and turns out the crucible fries reaper shields giving organics the instant advantage... maybe it also scrambles reaper targeting?  

Big boss fight with harbinger insues!

optional happy ending! 

/flex

[Chriz Tah Fah]

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

It certainly is suspicious they left the relays open when shutting them down is usually the first thing they do after taking the citadel. Could be to get all the allies in one place to get destroyed.

That was a really strange move. Having the Citadel = controlling the relay network = winning the war. Yet they do not take that advantage. Surely suspicious. I agree with the bolded part being the Reapers' motive. But it could also be for story-telling reasons (unite the Galaxy).

I don't know if it's just me but the Collector ship at the end of the Mass Effect 2 cinematic trailer REALLY reminded me of how te Citadel is situated over earth.

Edit: I just thought about a really heroic/messed up way for Shepard to go. Every reaper tries to indoctrinate Shepard at the same time to overwhelm her, Shepard shoots herself in the head disabling all the reapers just like Soverign. ALLIED WIN YAY!

Modifié par Chriz Tah Fah, 18 juillet 2012 - 03:20 .

[paxxton]

I actually don't need a traditional boss fight. Really liked fighting with words on the Citadel. Much more dramatic and unforgettable.

Modifié par paxxton, 18 juillet 2012 - 03:20 .

[byne]

Yknow, the godchild claims to be the collective intelligence of the Reapers, and also to control the Reapers, right?

Well, if you saved the Collector base in ME2, a Reaper brain is installed aboard the Crucible, which kind of technically makes the Crucible a very crappy Reaper. If godchild controls all the Reapers, he can simply make the proto-Reaper brain go haywire and short out the Crucible, possibly destroying it, could he not?

And even if he couldnt, being the collective intelligence of the Reapers, once the brain is installed on the Crucible, he should at least know where the Crucible is at all times, aye?

And why the hell install the brain or heart from the proto-Reaper aboard in the first place? Thats just insanity. Whose idea was that?

Also, this just popped into my head: Is it possible that by building the Crucible, the Reapers have just tricked us into building the basic structure needed to construct a new Reaper?

I mean, it seems odd to move the Citadel to Earth once they learn about the Crucible. We then learn that the Reapers are moving bodies to the Citadel and processing them there.

Anderson and Shep speculate they're building a Reaper in there, but we never even see the beginnings of any Reaper. Maybe they're just stocking up on goo while waiting for the allied fleet to deliver the parts they need directly to them.

[EpyonX3]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Vendetta needs to be activated by a "Prothean" If you have Javik with you for that mission, he is able to activate everything. If you don't have him with you then Shepard has to do it. I did not notice anything too strange with Vendetta the first time you meet him. The second time on the Cerberus base he does act odd. If Vendetta is feeding Shepard misinformation and Shepard follows it...sounds like a trap to me.

I can't see how the reapers use the Citadel as a trap.

The reaper's strategy so far has been divide and conquer. They cut civilizations off from each other and take them out in pockets, not in full on massive battles. Javik and Vigil confirm how the reapers divided them up throughout the galaxy and cut them off from each other.

To now think that the reapers planned to move the Citadel to earth to bring all of the galaxy's forces onto one spot and risk losing numerous capital ships is unlikely. They were doing just fine making a mess of earth and every other homeworld before the Crucible was leaked to them.

The reapers not knowing about the Crucible is HIGHLY unlikely. As was stated a few pages back. If you save the "fake" Rachni queen you find out that those Rachni are indoctrinated and turn against you. Those Rachni were working on the CRUCIBLE. And then there are the countless indoctrinated reaper agents who...don't tell the reapers about the Crucible? I don't buy that. The fact that the reapers didn't expect the Crucible to come back after the Protheans tried to make it doesn't make sense either. How stupid do the reapers think the Protheans were to not save information for the next cycle? Ontop of that, starbrat (who we all believe to be a lying cheat) STATES that the reapers did not expect the Crucible to come back. That's also a load of poo, the reapers should know that each cycle doesn't hope/believe to defeat the reapers conventionally so they wil try to develop a super weapon. It is more than likely that the Crucible will be built and tried by the next cycle.

I had something else but I forgot. If it comes to me I will edit this post.

We know now that they knew of it. However, the reapers know what we know. And we didn't know that the Crucible needed the Citadel. Therefore, they could have had 80% of the workers indoctrinated, they still wouldn't have known the Citadel was the key.

When TIM found out from the VI, the reapers reacted. The catalyst also notices that the Crucible has evolved since they first saw it. Remember that the reapers have been doing this for some time. They know everything we know. They know what we are capable of and they attack when we reach a acertain point in development. That point is before we become powerful enough to stop them. That's what makes the Crucible so special. It's thousands or millions of ears worth of development. No cycle could afford that kind of time after the reapers attacked. All of their resources are destroyed or cut off. Without a plan for a super weapon, there's no way organics can do it.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

Yknow, the godchild claims to be the collective intelligence of the Reapers, and also to control the Reapers, right?

Well, if you saved the Collector base in ME2, a Reaper brain is installed aboard the Crucible, which kind of technically makes the Crucible a very crappy Reaper. If godchild controls all the Reapers, he can simply make the proto-Reaper brain go haywire and short out the Crucible, possibly destroying it, could he not?

And even if he couldnt, being the collective intelligence of the Reapers, once the brain is installed on the Crucible, he should at least know where the Crucible is at all times, aye?

And why the hell install the brain or heart from the proto-Reaper aboard in the first place? Thats just insanity. Whose idea was that?

Also, this just popped into my head: Is it possible that by building the Crucible, the Reapers have just tricked us into building the basic structure needed to construct a new Reaper?

I mean, it seems odd to move the Citadel to Earth once they learn about the Crucible. We then learn that the Reapers are moving bodies to the Citadel and processing them there.

Anderson and Shep speculate they're building a Reaper in there, but we never even see the beginnings of any Reaper. Maybe they're just stocking up on goo while waiting for the allied fleet to deliver the parts they need directly to them.

Having the reaper brain installed on the crucible is pretty vague. Was it taken apart and installed or just put in as is? I can't see it being out in as is as there would have needed  be a slot in the Crucible design to allow a device that large to be installed.

[Turbo_J]

paxxton wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@Turbo_J: How's your and HellishFiend's video going?

I finished writing the narration yesterday, but we still have a long way to go. The story boarding process takes time. I'm rushing John and Amethyst Shepard (my 'canon' who was featured in the FemShep version of the Choose Wisely music video - in my sig.) through all three games again and make save points so we can gather data from anywhere, easily.

Even ME1 has valuable data on Indoctrination. Information that is not listed in the ME2 codex entry added in game during the derelict reaper mission.

It's difficult to stay focused. I find new information every time I play that has nothing to do with the segments we are addressing in the first video. It's a little little overwhelming... mind blowing... and I'm a little thirsty.

You can do it like Shepard did it. Fingers crossed and looking forward to watching it. So it's going to be a definite guide to IT. Good.

There is little written evidence of indoctrination, and even less reference to slow Indoctrination. It's almost as if someone didn't want the mystery solved. It is like someone came along and cleansed the galaxy of clues.

But here is the incredible part, according to my findings the Reapers have been messing with the current cycle for close to 3000 years. I have tracked down every scrap and shred of evidence. Eventually subtle patterns start to emerge. Patterns that hint at the truth.

It is difficult to explain to someone else. I cannot point to one specific thing to prove my case. It is more a feeling derived from months of dedicated research. But I know I'm right and eventually I'll be able to prove it.

We are not alone in our plight for the truth... the above is a near quote from ME1. Sounds like how many of us feel, does it not? At least the BSN does not have a doubting Council.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

That's what makes the Crucible so special. It's thousands or millions of ears worth of development. No cycle could afford that kind of time after the reapers attacked. All of their resources are destroyed or cut off.

Clearly the Reapers cut off all of the organics' ears so they couldnt cut them off themselves and use them to build the Crucible.

[KJSync]

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

It certainly is suspicious they left the relays open when shutting them down is usually the first thing they do after taking the citadel. Could be to get all the allies in one place to get destroyed.

That was a really strange move. Having the Citadel = controlling the relay network = winning the war. Yet they do not take that advantage. Surely suspicious. I agree with the bolded part being the Reapers' motive. But it could also be for story-telling reasons (unite the Galaxy).

Exactly.If the reapers did this there won't be any chance of Shepard getting out of Sol System after escaping Vancouver. 

[smokingotter1]

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

It certainly is suspicious they left the relays open when shutting them down is usually the first thing they do after taking the citadel. Could be to get all the allies in one place to get destroyed.

That was a really strange move. Having the Citadel = controlling the relay network = winning the war. Yet they do not take that advantage. Surely suspicious. I agree with the bolded part being the Reapers' motive. But it could also be for story-telling reasons (unite the Galaxy).

I agree. BW wanted to have a massive battle, can't have a massive battle if the reapers turn off the mass relays and divide and conquer.

Sometimes you have to have the villians hold the idiot ball to make the story more epic. Why did the empire build a second easily blowupable death star in ROTJ? So you'd have the battle of endor, duh.

A more realistic story of attrition warfare between the allies and the reapers would be hard to sell... to non-hardcore ME fans.

[Chriz Tah Fah]

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip*

We know now that they knew of it. However, the reapers know what we know. And we didn't know that the Crucible needed the Citadel. Therefore, they could have had 80% of the workers indoctrinated, they still wouldn't have known the Citadel was the key.

When TIM found out from the VI, the reapers reacted. The catalyst also notices that the Crucible has evolved since they first saw it. Remember that the reapers have been doing this for some time. They know everything we know. They know what we are capable of and they attack when we reach a acertain point in development. That point is before we become powerful enough to stop them. That's what makes the Crucible so special. It's thousands or millions of ears worth of development. No cycle could afford that kind of time after the reapers attacked. All of their resources are destroyed or cut off. Without a plan for a super weapon, there's no way organics can do it.

But..but...It also takes thousands and millions of ears to create a reaper...WHAT HAVE WE DONE!.

On a serious note though, if Vendetta has been tampered with then it is very possible that the reapers were waiting for someone to stumble upon that information. The reapers would then only make their move because the reapers know that we know what we think we're supposed to do. They would not move the Citadel anywhere until we knew what it was "used" for because otherwise we would know something is up/something involves the Citadel (especially since they don't shut down the relays).

Think about it, the Crucible blast uses the relays to transfer its effects throughout the ENTIRE galaxy. This would PERFECTLY justify the reapers not shutting down the relays because they need the Crucible's effects to transfer throughout the entire galaxy. There is no reason to leave the relays open unless the reapers wanted something to be transfered to all parts of the galaxy.

Edit: byne ninja'd me on the ear joke. But then again, it has been made before.

Modifié par Chriz Tah Fah, 18 juillet 2012 - 03:33 .

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Vendetta needs to be activated by a "Prothean" If you have Javik with you for that mission, he is able to activate everything. If you don't have him with you then Shepard has to do it. I did not notice anything too strange with Vendetta the first time you meet him. The second time on the Cerberus base he does act odd. If Vendetta is feeding Shepard misinformation and Shepard follows it...sounds like a trap to me.

I can't see how the reapers use the Citadel as a trap.

The reaper's strategy so far has been divide and conquer. They cut civilizations off from each other and take them out in pockets, not in full on massive battles. Javik and Vigil confirm how the reapers divided them up throughout the galaxy and cut them off from each other.

To now think that the reapers planned to move the Citadel to earth to bring all of the galaxy's forces onto one spot and risk losing numerous capital ships is unlikely. They were doing just fine making a mess of earth and every other homeworld before the Crucible was leaked to them.

Did you not pay attention in ME1, Epyon? The Citadel has never been anything but  a trap.

The Reapers made it the center of the Relay network so that every cycle would use it as their center of government, storing all census records and such there, then the Reapers would use the Citadel relay to leave dark space, kill the government leaders, crippling the galactic society, use the Citadel to shut down all the Relays, then find the census info so they could easily learn what planets to harvest.

You know what I mean. Moving the Citadel to Earth and conslidating power around it was a trap? I don't see it.

If they were truly trying to protect the Citadel, why not move it to dark space? Hell, why leave the Relay network open at all? Just move all the Reaper forces to the Serpent Nebula and shut down the Relays. It'd be pretty protected then.

And after moving it to Earth, why not simply ignore the allied fleet and focus all efforts on destroying the Crucible? The Reapers may not know that the Crucible can beat them, but surely they know that destroying it would be a huge hit to the morale of the fleet.

I had this discussion before. I suggested the reapers sending the Citadel through the Omega Relay with just a few reapers guarding both sides of it.

Only a handful of ships in the galaxy can go though it. Those ships would have to make it past the reapers defending the relay, the relay, the debris field after the jump and then the reapers defending the Citadel.

But if they were ready to finish off earth and create their reaper, it probably made the most sense to go to earth. Still wouldn't have been the way I'd do it.

[RavenEyry]

byne wrote...

Yknow, the godchild claims to be the collective intelligence of the Reapers, and also to control the Reapers, right?

Controller, creator, intelligence, and unless he uses the royal 'we', an actual reaper. Pretty big resume for someone with two minutes screen time.

[byne]

smokingotter1 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

It certainly is suspicious they left the relays open when shutting them down is usually the first thing they do after taking the citadel. Could be to get all the allies in one place to get destroyed.

That was a really strange move. Having the Citadel = controlling the relay network = winning the war. Yet they do not take that advantage. Surely suspicious. I agree with the bolded part being the Reapers' motive. But it could also be for story-telling reasons (unite the Galaxy).

I agree. BW wanted to have a massive battle, can't have a massive battle if the reapers turn off the mass relays and divide and conquer.

Sometimes you have to have the villians hold the idiot ball to make the story more epic. Why did the empire build a second easily blowupable death star in ROTJ? So you'd have the battle of endor, duh.

A more realistic story of attrition warfare between the allies and the reapers would be hard to sell... to non-hardcore ME fans.

But this is BioWare we're talking about. They'd usually go out of their way to explain why it occurred like it did.

Maybe say that after Saren shut down the Relays around the Citadel in ME1, the Council made it so that only the four councilors together could shut down the Relays.

Make it need DNA scans of all four councilors simultaneously or something. That'd be something the Reapers couldnt fake, so they'd have to just resort to conventional warfare, unless they could capture the council and force them to do it.

(Which, conveniently, would have made the Citadel coup attempt make more sense. TIM is trying to capture the Council so he can get access to the Relay network)

[Chriz Tah Fah]

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip*

I had this discussion before. I suggested the reapers sending the Citadel through the Omega Relay with just a few reapers guarding both sides of it.

Only a handful of ships in the galaxy can go though it. Those ships would have to make it past the reapers defending the relay, the relay, the debris field after the jump and then the reapers defending the Citadel.

But if they were ready to finish off earth and create their reaper, it probably made the most sense to go to earth. Still wouldn't have been the way I'd do it.

Things larger than 40km or something like that can't go through relays. The Cidadel is some kind of relay itself though so maybe it could do something like that? I don't really know. It makes the Citadel getting to earth a little more weird.

[RavenEyry]

byne wrote...

But this is BioWare we're talking about. They'd usually go out of their way to explain why it occurred like it did.

Could've thrown in a line to handwave this notable plot hole in EC. Didn't.

[MaximizedAction]

Turbo_J wrote...

There is little written evidence of indoctrination, and even less reference to slow Indoctrination. It's almost as if someone didn't want the mystery solved. It is like someone came along and cleansed the galaxy of clues.

But here is the incredible part, according to my findings the Reapers have been messing with the current cycle for close to 3000 years. I have tracked down every scrap and shred of evidence. Eventually subtle patterns start to emerge. Patterns that hint at the truth.

It is difficult to explain to someone else. I cannot point to one specific thing to prove my case. It is more a feeling derived from months of dedicated research. But I know I'm right and eventually I'll be able to prove it.

We are not alone in our plight for the truth... the above is a near quote from ME1. Sounds like how many of us feel, does it not? At least the BSN does not have a doubting Council.

Motherofgod. Before I read the last paragraph I thought it sounded like it could be a datapad message from the game and how cool you wrote it, but damn....
what crazy ARG is this?

ALSO: I now decided to take and accept the game itself as the only viable source of information, in other words, let the game speak for itself, let the artist speak only through his work. Imo this is a legit standpoint and conveniently excludes arguments a la "bad writing".

[EpyonX3]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip*

We know now that they knew of it. However, the reapers know what we know. And we didn't know that the Crucible needed the Citadel. Therefore, they could have had 80% of the workers indoctrinated, they still wouldn't have known the Citadel was the key.

When TIM found out from the VI, the reapers reacted. The catalyst also notices that the Crucible has evolved since they first saw it. Remember that the reapers have been doing this for some time. They know everything we know. They know what we are capable of and they attack when we reach a acertain point in development. That point is before we become powerful enough to stop them. That's what makes the Crucible so special. It's thousands or millions of ears worth of development. No cycle could afford that kind of time after the reapers attacked. All of their resources are destroyed or cut off. Without a plan for a super weapon, there's no way organics can do it.

But..but...It also takes thousands and millions of ears to create a reaper...WHAT HAVE WE DONE!.

On a serious note though, if Vendetta has been tampered with then it is very possible that the reapers were waiting for someone to stumble upon that information. The reapers would then only make their move because the reapers know that we know what we think we're supposed to do. They would not move the Citadel anywhere until we knew what it was "used" for because otherwise we would know something is up/something involves the Citadel (especially since they don't shut down the relays).

Think about it, the Crucible blast uses the relays to transfer its effects throughout the ENTIRE galaxy. This would PERFECTLY justify the reapers not shutting down the relays because they need the Crucible's effects to transfer throughout the entire galaxy. There is no reason to leave the relays open unless the reapers wanted something to be transfered to all parts of the galaxy.

Are you suggesting, then, that Vendetta had bad information since his creation or that the bad information was planted after TIM hacked it? I'll continue if you clear that up for me.

The relays weren't shut down because the reapers didn't have access to the Citadel. The Citadel controls all of the relays and they need an organic on the insode to do it. This is what TIM was used for. Cerberus was supposed to take over the Citadel. They were then supposed to fail and make Udina look like a hero while killing all the other coucil members. Udina would either already be indoctrinated or become it and would allow access to TIM or the Reapers. The relays would then be shut down.

In the meantime, the reapers are still harvesting as planned, with the exception of Shepard's minor interference. Also, the relays don't turn off, because they'd strand the reapers as well. They just change the friend foe system like the omega relay. The crucible would still work if activated.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

That's what makes the Crucible so special. It's thousands or millions of ears worth of development. No cycle could afford that kind of time after the reapers attacked. All of their resources are destroyed or cut off.

Clearly the Reapers cut off all of the organics' ears so they couldnt cut them off themselves and use them to build the Crucible.

Sure, mess with my typos...I will have my revenge!

[Turbo_J]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip*

I had this discussion before. I suggested the reapers sending the Citadel through the Omega Relay with just a few reapers guarding both sides of it.

Only a handful of ships in the galaxy can go though it. Those ships would have to make it past the reapers defending the relay, the relay, the debris field after the jump and then the reapers defending the Citadel.

But if they were ready to finish off earth and create their reaper, it probably made the most sense to go to earth. Still wouldn't have been the way I'd do it.

Things larger than 40km or something like that can't go through relays. The Cidadel is some kind of relay itself though so maybe it could do something like that? I don't really know. It makes the Citadel getting to earth a little more weird.

It would have had to move via conventional FTL or the Reapers have a way of bypassing failsafes. That alone is why I originally suspected everything after Cronos was bull and potentially all in Shepard's head. Other things that take place on Cronos itself and all of London add to the plausibility of it being part of an hallucination.

Fact is, we won't know for sure until some sort of reveal from BW.