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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#49201
Arian Dynas

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Simon_Says wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I have a few problems with this, but only a few.

It's stated that the Thessia Beacon was intentionally hidden by the Asari, we have no idea where it originally was buried.
It's a big-ass structure. Unless they had significant technological assistance, they couldn't have moved it. Excavated and bilt over it, sure. But moveing it intact? And it didn't appear to be something easily broken apart and put back together either.

But they did discover it by way of Prothean survivors who led them like Gods...
Were they actually meddleing in asari affairs or were they mostly keeping their distance when they weren't experimenting on the primitives? Remember, human scientists don't rule over the wild species they study. They observe, protect and occasionally experiment, but never assert dominance. The ethical ones, anyway.

Also, you are forgetting Victory, in the flashbacks, had a fairly positive outlook too; "They will be remembered in the coming empire." Things to that effect.
That's what he's saying. Vendetta is acting suspiciously compared to the other VIs we see.

Also, you notice each VI has a name, starting with V indicative of their purpose. Vigil was meant to keep watch, Victory was meant to secure their final victory through Prothean Survivors forming a new empire. What is Vendetta's purpose? Why would it be stored in a beacon in the first place?
Maybe the person the VI is based off of took the war a little personal? Like Shepard does?

HOW would it be stored in the beacon in a way that could be stolen?
It's software, remember?


My biggest question actually is why, after fifty asari lifetimes, no asari was able to activate the beacon, learn of the reapers, and prepare the Crucible beforehand. You'd think that if the protheans were grooming the asari to succeed them they'd leave instructions or something.


Simon, we managed to move pyramid blocks with wooden rollers. Imagine what we could have moved with natural biotics enhanced by a Prothean "god"?

That was how it started out, but if you look around the meuseum, you'll notice alot of things indicating that these were Protheans who had survived the cataclysm by hiding on the Asari world, and then the three Prothean scientists lived among the Asari and lead them as mythical pre-historical figures, giving them the secrets to agriculture and such. Or at least that was the implication I got.

Hey, come to think of it, the Asari and Quarians were considered somewhat attractive by Prothean standards, perhaps there's some Prothean blood living on in the Asari. Sort of.

But the implication I WAS giving was, perhaps these survivors were the abandoned, indoctrinated slaves the Reapers leave behind when the cycle is done, and this bunch was getting orders to artifically ensure the dominance of a race incapable of defeating the Reapers, rather than letting, say Humans dominate the politics of the galaxy.

I know, this is me providing more anecdotal evidence.

I'm not sure, as I said, Vendetta isn't paticularly descriptive of his purpose. Perhaps Venture, Vouchsafe, or Vision, Vendetta is accepting they have already lost and require "Vengance", Vendetta is a bitter and destructive feud defined by acts of revenge, not a means of securing final victory or freedom, not a method of winning, but a method of prolonging ill will.

#49202
im commander shep

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I think Jessica has give some more away.



Q. Why did you say during PAX that everybody on the Citadel is fine after the Reapers' attack on it? Is it possible? How?

A. As with previous attacks on the Citadel, there are presumed to be casualties. However, as we know with those same previous attacks, the Citadel has safety features that can be activated to prevent mass destruction. I wouldn't say that everyone is "fine", but this is why it's possible for Shepard to survive if you have high EMS when choosing the destroy option.

#49203
masster blaster

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Delldo ask about could Vendetta's info be false, since it was Hacked by Tim, and could have miss lead Shepard into believing the Citadel is the Catalyst.

#49204
L0NEWOLF25

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They are saying opposite things from each other

Originally Posted by Antauronius
Why did you say during PAX that everybody on the Citadel is fine after the Reapers' attack on it? Is it possible? How?
Jessica Merizan:
"As with previous attacks on the Citadel, there are presumed to be casualties. However, as we know with those same previous attacks, the Citadel has safety features that can be activated to prevent mass destruction. I wouldn't say that everyone is "fine", but this is why it's possible for Shepard to survive if you have high EMS when choosing the destroy option."

Originally Posted by Antauronius
If Shepard was on the Citadel and it exploded in Destroy, how could he survive in the breath scene?
Evil Chris priestly:
You assume Shepard survived. That could have just been a final breath before he/she died.

http://forum.worldof...ELA-HEINE/page3

Modifié par L0NEWOLF25, 18 juillet 2012 - 05:52 .


#49205
RavenEyry

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masster blaster wrote...
You assume Shepard survived. That could have just been a final breath before he/she died.

No it couldn't. A last breath is so easy to write I'll lose all faith in Bioware if that's what it's supposed to be.

#49206
Schachmatt123

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Q: Why did you say during PAX that everybody on the Citadel is fine after the Reapers' attack on it? Is it possible? How?


A: As with previous attacks on the Citadel, there are presumed to be casualties. However, as we know with those same previous attacks, the Citadel has safety features that can be activated to prevent mass destruction. I wouldn't say that everyone is "fine", but this is why it's possible for Shepard to survive if you have high EMS when choosing the destroy option.

#49207
masster blaster

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im commander shep wrote...

I think Jessica has give some more away.



Q. Why did you say during PAX that everybody on the Citadel is fine after the Reapers' attack on it? Is it possible? How?

A. As with previous attacks on the Citadel, there are presumed to be casualties. However, as we know with those same previous attacks, the Citadel has safety features that can be activated to prevent mass destruction. I wouldn't say that everyone is "fine", but this is why it's possible for Shepard to survive if you have high EMS when choosing the destroy option.


But they left out the part if the Citadel is being blow up, from the inside, and out side, plus it looks like the live support systems are off in Destroy, and there could be a lot of breaches in the Citadel. In which case Sheaprd killed innocenet lives when he/she picked Destroy, and Synthesis.

Also read the last page. That is behind this one pagge.

#49208
im commander shep

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Very Interesting



Q. Why the Catalyst's voice has Shepard's in the background?


A. The Catalyst's voice is partially formed from Shepard's memories, so his/her voice is part of the speech

#49209
delldo

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I posted some of my own questions along with the bench one.

#49210
Schachmatt123

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Q: What does Harbinger say just before hitting Shepard with the laser beam? "Save us" or "Serve us"? Something else?


A: Harbringer doesn't actually say anything at that point. I know, I thought it did as well, but I asked teh Audio team and they told me it is just sound effects, not actually speech.

Modifié par Schachmatt, 18 juillet 2012 - 05:54 .


#49211
masster blaster

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RavenEyry wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
You assume Shepard survived. That could have just been a final breath before he/she died.

No it couldn't. A last breath is so easy to write I'll lose all faith in Bioware if that's what it's supposed to be.


That's not a qoute from me it's from Chris, and he avodied the question about is it on the Citadel. So he did not give the full anwser at aall, but a small part of an alluding one.

#49212
Lokanaiya

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delldo wrote...

Give me some questions to ask and I will.


How does Shepard not get incinerated by the explosion in Destroy?

Why did the Catalyst take the form of the child in Shepard's dreams and on Earth?

Why does the explosion during the ending begin in system that is closer to the edge than the Local Cluster and Earth?

What are the odd black tendrils on the edge of the screen during the confrontation with TIM?

Where do the writers believe the breath scene took place?

I'll think of more later. :P

#49213
llbountyhunter

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This session is causing more questions instead if giving answers ..... as usual.

#49214
MaximizedAction

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llbountyhunter wrote...

I know bioware is trying please everyone here, but come on! A solid ending is better than a vague "fill it in yourself" ending....

IT is a chance for them to make on of the best endings ever- in any medium.

And if they choose the literal nonsensical ending at least take away the plotholes and add real closure this time!

The lack of information and closure is too great..... the amount of information that we have to fill in ourselves ...

i thought we were going to get answers....


I bet some playwright in ancient greece at some point thought "Boy, I don't know how to finish that story so that everyone will be happy. Maybe I should just skip the ending at all and say that I let the audience figure it out themselves."
Guy in the audience thinks "You lazy ***** " :D

Clearly a writer can find excuses why he skipped parts of the story ("This is free for interpretation for the reader") or needs deus-ex-machinas ("But this problem cannot be solved conventiionally"). Both things can be avioided by thinking ahead.
And if they really did start working on the overall story more than two years ago, then you don't just built a story that, in it's core, requires a deus-ex-machina.

#49215
im commander shep

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RavenEyry wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
You assume Shepard survived. That could have just been a final breath before he/she died.

No it couldn't. A last breath is so easy to write I'll lose all faith in Bioware if that's what it's supposed to be.


Also with the EC the changed memorial scene which the Devs made a point of asking us if we noticed a difference. Shepards name not going on wall. LI giving little smile before ship takes off. (Well ship taking off is in both.) Strong hitns Shep is alive.

#49216
Rosewind

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RavenEyry wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
You assume Shepard survived. That could have just been a final breath before he/she died.

No it couldn't. A last breath is so easy to write I'll lose all faith in Bioware if that's what it's supposed to be.


That was not a final breath scene, I have been with a couple people when they have died and they don't inhale they exhale.

#49217
CoolioThane

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Haha, Catalyst's voice is formed from Shepard's memories? umm, hello IT...that's kind of a give away right?

#49218
L0NEWOLF25

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Originally Posted by Antauronius
Why the Catalyst's voice has Shepard's in the background?
What does Harbinger say just before hitting Shepard with the laser beam? "Save us" or "Serve us"? Something else?
Why Harbinger in ME3 didn't say a word with his ME2's voice?

Evil Chris priestly:
The Catalyst's voice is partially formed from Shepard's memories, so his/her voice is part of the speech.
Harbringer doesn't actually say anything at that point. I know, I thought it did as well, but I asked teh Audio team and they told me it is just sound effects, not actually speech.

#49219
Dwailing

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It seems like they're ignoring the VERY important questions. Hum...

#49220
Arian Dynas

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Andromidius wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Just read Raistlin's thing about the VI's and it seems Vendetta was either foreshadowing the forthcoming massive retcons, or has been fiddled with in some way to tell you what the reapers want you to think.


I agree with it, but then again I posted something very similar to it about 500 pages ago... and again, not too long ago I mentioned oddeties Regarding it's communications. It behaved like an AI, not a VI. It knows too much, can instantly be understood by every squad mate despite them not having a cypher like Shepard - and Vendetta was not 'on' to 'monitor' communications like Vigil was on Ilos; which is how it learned to communicate.

The comments on the 'cycle' were also almost identical to Liara's diatribe in ME1 with the exception of the 'inferred' master of the cycle, as Vendetta put it.

Funny how the Protheans knew so much for being insta-splintered when the Reapers flooded through the citadel.


Actually, that's a bloody good point.  In ME1 they beat you over the head that Shepard could make out a garbled message from a computer on Ilos while the squadmates couldn't, and that Prothean VI's can quickly translate other languages but only if they are monitoring communications.

Vendetta could be understood instantly, and had been turned off.

And Kai Leng (spit) was there almost on cue just before it spilled the beans about what was going on.  As if he was waiting.

<_<


Not even just that, in From Ashes, they beat you over the head again with only Shepard understanding the Prothean language and memories.

I'm beginning to think that every DLC is meant to be full of clues and "reminders" for new folks to understand things. The next few DLCs I am sure will revisit old, plot critical things that we need to remember and think about again...

Leviathan is probably focusing on Reapers and indoctrination.:o

#49221
Rosewind

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CoolioThane wrote...

Haha, Catalyst's voice is formed from Shepard's memories? umm, hello IT...that's kind of a give away right?


And why does Female shepard have male shepard voice as a memory and vise versa......

#49222
StrawberryRainPop

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Rosewind wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
You assume Shepard survived. That could have just been a final breath before he/she died.

No it couldn't. A last breath is so easy to write I'll lose all faith in Bioware if that's what it's supposed to be.


That was not a final breath scene, I have been with a couple people when they have died and they don't inhale they exhale.


also... it is PRINTED on the collectors book ending guide, where 2 endings states

SHEPARD LIVES.

Dispute that.

#49223
im commander shep

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Yes someone asked my question. Thanks Antauronius.

#49224
MaximizedAction

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im commander shep wrote...

Very Interesting

Q. Why the Catalyst's voice has Shepard's in the background?

A. The Catalyst's voice is partially formed from Shepard's memories, so his/her voice is part of the speech


So my Shep has moments where he imagines what it would be like being a female. :P


Schachmatt wrote...

Q: What does Harbinger say just before hitting Shepard with the laser beam? "Save us" or "Serve us"? Something else?

A:
Harbringer doesn't actually say anything at that point. I know, I
thought it did as well, but I asked teh Audio team and they told me it
is just sound effects, not actually speech.


Just semantics but...at this point? At what point did/does/will he say something?

#49225
BleedingUranium

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Rosewind wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

masster blaster wrote...
You assume Shepard survived. That could have just been a final breath before he/she died.

No it couldn't. A last breath is so easy to write I'll lose all faith in Bioware if that's what it's supposed to be.


That was not a final breath scene, I have been with a couple people when they have died and they don't inhale they exhale.


That makes sense, but... I don't want to ignore the other part and seem rude, but I'm not sure how to say something without also seeming rude Posted Image *hug*

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 18 juillet 2012 - 05:59 .