55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

HyperGlass wrote...


@HellishFiend
I'd say the player because you will be questioning everything he says e.g. he says "You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want." I asked "Why would I want to do that? I would choose it but not actully want to because I have no choice if the Reapers are still alive in the other options." He twists with Shepard's morals to force him/her to make a decision to become the biggest hypocrit ever with Shepard not even achnowlaging this. So yea due to Shepard's abnormal behaviour, he makes the player question what the heck is going on

Ah crap that just messed things up.

I would contend that by presenting you with the ability to ask those questions, it would allow you to be "led on" by the game to come to the correct conclusion. Ergo, the Starbinger thusly fails at his role of indoctrinating the player. 

By not leading you on with dialog options, you are left with naught but your own wits, which is the only possible chance Bioware has of stealthily breaking through the 4th wall and indoctrinating the player instead of just Shepard. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 23 mai 2012 - 02:59 .

[EpyonX3]

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...

[quote]Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...



Chris Priestly started a poll...

http://www.holdtheli...on-theory.1909/ 

[/quote] 



Now. That's very interesting.

Makes me hope they are actually considering this for the EC.
[/quote] 
[/quote]

Im guessing the question was posted on the hold the line site because thats were the majority of the anger has been coming from.... so if THEY believe in IT, then its good to go. 

thats what I think anyways.

[/quote]

Or guaging to see how many fans will backlash when EC doesn't contain IT. hey may be planning PR to keep these people from boycotting or tearing Bioware apart.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

OK, maybe not her.  I don't hate her, but I don't think I'll romance her anytime soon.

Guys, stop, really. There is an entire sub-forum dedicated to love interest discussion. Make a "IT theorists thread for LI discussion" topic over there, or something... 

[Unschuld]

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Im guessing the question was posted on the hold the line site because thats were the majority of the anger has been coming from.... so if THEY believe in IT, then its good to go. 

thats what I think anyways.

Agreed. If the most vocal of the fans all hated IT, Bioware might start to sweat a little. It looks like theyre in the clear, though. 

I wasn't an HTL member until yesterday actually, because I thought the goals of changing the ending entirely were ridiculous. Now that Chris Priestly is posting threads over there, I feel the need to participate. I don't blame him, because as much as I think that the HTL movement isn't thinking realistically, their discussions in his threads over there seems to be a lot saner and with less mud slinging than over here.

[dmay7]

They should just make a fourth ending where Shepard can shoot ReaperBieber the Starbinger in the face, which triggers the most epic cutscene in the history of anything. Shepard shoots the winy brat, which frees him from IT, and he picks destroy, and then epic battle scenes commence and Shepard builds that damned house on Ranoch.

(Just woke up so I'm hyper, my rational thinking comes at around noon lol)

[HellishFiend]

Unschuld wrote...


I wasn't an HTL member until yesterday actually, because I thought the goals of changing the ending entirely were ridiculous. Now that Chris Priestly is posting threads over there, I feel the need to participate. I don't blame him, because as much as I think that the HTL movement isn't thinking realistically, their discussions in his threads over there seems to be a lot saner and with less mud slinging than over here.

I also agree that the goal of having the ending changed/rewritten is folly, but then again I'm biased because I believe so strongly in IT. If I disbelieved IT, I'm honestly not sure whether I'd be a part of Retake/HtL or not. 

[HellishFiend]

dmay7 wrote...

They should just make a fourth ending where Shepard can shoot ReaperBieber the Starbinger in the face, which triggers the most epic cutscene in the history of anything. Shepard shoots the winy brat, which frees him from IT, and he picks destroy, and then epic battle scenes commence and Shepard builds that damned house on Ranoch.

(Just woke up so I'm hyper, my rational thinking comes at around noon lol)

I'd be cool with that, if it were an option only available to NewGame+. 

[HyperGlass]

HellishFiend wrote...

I would contend that by presenting you with the ability to ask those questions, it would allow you to be "led on" by the game to come to the correct conclusion. Ergo, the Starbinger thusly fails at his role of indoctrinating the player. 

By not leading you on with dialog options, you are left with naught but your own wits, which is the only possible chance Bioware has of stealthily breaking through the 4th and indoctrinating the player instead of just Shepard. 

So they're basicly leaving you to draw up what is going to happen based upon the "facts" given by the child? What about thinking the geth and EDI will be "casulties of war"? Wouldn't that rational thought be enough to tell you to destroy the Reapers? Isn't that what any player would think after wanting the Reapers stopped after 5 years?

[DatRandomGuy1]

dmay7 wrote...

They should just make a fourth ending where Shepard can shoot ReaperBieber the Starbinger in the face, which triggers the most epic cutscene in the history of anything. Shepard shoots the winy brat, which frees him from IT, and he picks destroy, and then epic battle scenes commence and Shepard builds that damned house on Ranoch.

(Just woke up so I'm hyper, my rational thinking comes at around noon lol)

ReaperBieber?

[img]http://cdn2.fiverrcdn.com/photos/511229/medium/mother-of-god-meme-240x180.jpg?1323194228http://cdn2.fiverrcdn.com/photos/511229/medium/mother-of-god-meme-240x180.jpg?1323194228[/img]

[Dwailing]

DatRandomGuy1 wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

They should just make a fourth ending where Shepard can shoot ReaperBieber the Starbinger in the face, which triggers the most epic cutscene in the history of anything. Shepard shoots the winy brat, which frees him from IT, and he picks destroy, and then epic battle scenes commence and Shepard builds that damned house on Ranoch.

(Just woke up so I'm hyper, my rational thinking comes at around noon lol)

ReaperBieber?

[img]http://cdn2.fiverrcdn.com/photos/511229/medium/mother-of-god-meme-240x180.jpg?1323194228http://cdn2.fiverrcdn.com/photos/511229/medium/mother-of-god-meme-240x180.jpg?1323194228[/img]

Yeah, it's brilliant, right?

[HellishFiend]

HyperGlass wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I would contend that by presenting you with the ability to ask those questions, it would allow you to be "led on" by the game to come to the correct conclusion. Ergo, the Starbinger thusly fails at his role of indoctrinating the player. 

By not leading you on with dialog options, you are left with naught but your own wits, which is the only possible chance Bioware has of stealthily breaking through the 4th and indoctrinating the player instead of just Shepard. 

So they're basicly leaving you to draw up what is going to happen based upon the "facts" given by the child? What about thinking the geth and EDI will be "casulties of war"? Wouldn't that rational thought be enough to tell you to destroy the Reapers? Isn't that what any player would think after wanting the Reapers stopped after 5 years?

The answers to your questions, IMO, are Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes. Which makes me feel all the more foolish for picking Control my first time through. I'm ashamed, really. 

[Unschuld]

dmay7 wrote...

They should just make a fourth ending where Shepard can shoot ReaperBieber the Starbinger in the face, which triggers the most epic cutscene in the history of anything. Shepard shoots the winy brat, which frees him from IT, and he picks destroy, and then epic battle scenes commence and Shepard builds that damned house on Ranoch.

(Just woke up so I'm hyper, my rational thinking comes at around noon lol)

The way I see it, Starbinger is non-corporeal so shooting him would do nothing. I do think it would be interesting though if as you began to walk up the ramp to destroy, he would follow you and start asking you if you were sure about this path. As you got closer, this would progress to protests and angry assertions about the consequences of destroying the reapers. As Shepard got closer still, the kid's voice would deepen to Harbinger's characteristic voice and make Shepard collapse with a massive headache. From there it would segway into Shepard getting back up and shooting the "destroy tube" in the cutscene.

Of course, in the original game this would make things quite obvious, but for the EC (if it involved some form of IT), I think it could work.

[dmay7]

HellishFiend wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I would contend that by presenting you with the ability to ask those questions, it would allow you to be "led on" by the game to come to the correct conclusion. Ergo, the Starbinger thusly fails at his role of indoctrinating the player. 

By not leading you on with dialog options, you are left with naught but your own wits, which is the only possible chance Bioware has of stealthily breaking through the 4th and indoctrinating the player instead of just Shepard. 

So they're basicly leaving you to draw up what is going to happen based upon the "facts" given by the child? What about thinking the geth and EDI will be "casulties of war"? Wouldn't that rational thought be enough to tell you to destroy the Reapers? Isn't that what any player would think after wanting the Reapers stopped after 5 years?

The answers to your questions, IMO, are Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes. Which makes me feel all the more foolish for picking Control my first time through. I'm ashamed, really. 

I did Synthesis first time for EDI, it was actually quite a sight to see my character vaporize...then I reloaded an did destroy, and was so proud of my character, who I've built to be the nicest most honorable hero in the galaxy, going all apesh** on the conduit. 

[estebanus]

Oh, look, we're almost on page 199!

Modifié par estebanus, 23 mai 2012 - 03:15 .

[HellishFiend]

dmay7 wrote...

I did Synthesis first time for EDI, it was actually quite a sight to see my character vaporize...then I reloaded an did destroy, and was so proud of my character, who I've built to be the nicest most honorable hero in the galaxy, going all apesh** on the conduit. 

Yeah, that moment is made epic by the fact that Shepard regains their composure and posture after taking the first few shots, coupled with the badass look on his/her face during the explosions. 

[dmay7]

Unschuld wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

They should just make a fourth ending where Shepard can shoot ReaperBieber the Starbinger in the face, which triggers the most epic cutscene in the history of anything. Shepard shoots the winy brat, which frees him from IT, and he picks destroy, and then epic battle scenes commence and Shepard builds that damned house on Ranoch.

(Just woke up so I'm hyper, my rational thinking comes at around noon lol)

The way I see it, Starbinger is non-corporeal so shooting him would do nothing. I do think it would be interesting though if as you began to walk up the ramp to destroy, he would follow you and start asking you if you were sure about this path. As you got closer, this would progress to protests and angry assertions about the consequences of destroying the reapers. As Shepard got closer still, the kid's voice would deepen to Harbinger's characteristic voice and make Shepard collapse with a massive headache. From there it would segway into Shepard getting back up and shooting the "destroy tube" in the cutscene.

Of course, in the original game this would make things quite obvious, but for the EC (if it involved some form of IT), I think it could work.

I've sorted of imagined it like this (movie style): Shepard is given his choices. He looks at each choice, and imagines himself doing each choice. He ultimatley chooses synthesis, for EDI and Joker. But as he gets halfway there. He stops. He then reflects, and puts the pieces together and figures out he's being indoctrinated. He laughs to himself, and professes "I'm sorry, EDI". He then backtracks toward the conduit, with Starbinger asking "What are you doing?" Shepard keeps going, and Starbinger keeps yelling at him to stop. Starbinger then reappers between Shepard and the conduit, glowing red, protesting, his voice changing from the innocent child to the satanic Harbinger that he really is. Shepard then begins to collapse, getting a massive headache, blood gushing from his nose. Using every will of his strength, he raises his gun, and proudly proclaims "I make my own choices", and fires at the conduit. With every shot fired, he regains more strength, until he stands up, and starts limping towards the conduit, still firing. He then regains control of his body, and continues to fire until it is destroyed.

[HyperGlass]

HellishFiend wrote...


The answers to your questions, IMO, are Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes. Which makes me feel all the more foolish for picking Control my first time through. I'm ashamed, really. 

I guess for someone who has never heard of IT playing it at face-value would choose Control because of the following:
1. Shepard can control the Reapers and since the relays are destroyed (or badly damaged) Shep can use then to repair them.
2. The geth don't die which if the player killed the Quarians means they don't lose that asset or if an alliance was forged they can still continue to help the Quarians to rebuild.
3. EDI doesn't die.
4. They can also be destroyed once they're no longer useful.
I'm sure those are  some of the thoughts of a first time player at face-value. I would be convinced if my Shep simply wasn't Renegade and the geth were allready dead so EDI is just another loss sadly.

[HellishFiend]

HyperGlass wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


The answers to your questions, IMO, are Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes. Which makes me feel all the more foolish for picking Control my first time through. I'm ashamed, really. 

I guess for someone who has never heard of IT playing it at face-value would choose Control because of the following:
1. Shepard can control the Reapers and since the relays are destroyed (or badly damaged) Shep can use then to repair them.
2. The geth don't die which if the player killed the Quarians means they don't lose that asset or if an alliance was forged they can still continue to help the Quarians to rebuild.
3. EDI doesn't die.
4. They can also be destroyed once they're no longer useful.
I'm sure those are  some of the thoughts of a first time player at face-value. I would be convinced if my Shep simply wasn't Renegade and the geth were allready dead so EDI is just another loss sadly.

All that, plus, I'm admittedly a somewhat opportunistic person that loves to take advantage of situations (within reason). I saved the collector base, and even agreed with the Illusive Man on some of his more controversial rationalizations. One of the reasons I believe in IT is because if you save the collector base, low EMS results in you ONLY having the control option. 

So, low EMS means you are only presented with the option that matches YOUR values as a player. Again, brilliant by Bioware. 

[HyperGlass]

HellishFiend wrote...

So, low EMS means you are only presented with the option that matches YOUR values as a player. Again, brilliant by Bioware. 

Still what about no waking up having low EMS and destroying the Collector Base. What does that mean for IT?

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


The answers to your questions, IMO, are Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes. Which makes me feel all the more foolish for picking Control my first time through. I'm ashamed, really. 

I guess for someone who has never heard of IT playing it at face-value would choose Control because of the following:
1. Shepard can control the Reapers and since the relays are destroyed (or badly damaged) Shep can use then to repair them.
2. The geth don't die which if the player killed the Quarians means they don't lose that asset or if an alliance was forged they can still continue to help the Quarians to rebuild.
3. EDI doesn't die.
4. They can also be destroyed once they're no longer useful.
I'm sure those are  some of the thoughts of a first time player at face-value. I would be convinced if my Shep simply wasn't Renegade and the geth were allready dead so EDI is just another loss sadly.

All that, plus, I'm admittedly a somewhat opportunistic person that loves to take advantage of situations (within reason). I saved the collector base, and even agreed with the Illusive Man on some of his more controversial rationalizations. One of the reasons I believe in IT is because if you save the collector base, low EMS results in you ONLY having the control option. 

So, low EMS means you are only presented with the option that matches YOUR values as a player. Again, brilliant by Bioware. 

Yes, and reading through HyperGlass' post, I realised that my absolutistic
"must destroy the Reapers, that was my job, no matter what, so that's what I'm gonna do!"
approach during my first playthrough is quite the Renegade thinking -- how narrow minded of me!
I've despised such approaches during all the trilogy, there was always another way. And what for? To throw it all away in the end and choose the rightfully red ending...only I didn't see it that way while running up the right ramp.

Wow. Is that what visiting a shrink feels like?

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 23 mai 2012 - 03:39 .

[MegumiAzusa]

HyperGlass wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

So, low EMS means you are only presented with the option that matches YOUR values as a player. Again, brilliant by Bioware. 

Still what about no waking up having low EMS and destroying the Collector Base. What does that mean for IT?

That Shep is dead and she couldn't get enough support.

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

Oh, look, we're almost on page 199!

Only 1 more page.

[HellishFiend]

HyperGlass wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

So, low EMS means you are only presented with the option that matches YOUR values as a player. Again, brilliant by Bioware. 

Still what about no waking up having low EMS and destroying the Collector Base. What does that mean for IT?

Dont know specifically, but I've always believed that the breath scene is partly a secret that you only get to see if you choose the best option with high EMS. Meaning, breath scene always happens behind the scenes, but what happens after is up to your decisions. 

[Xavendithas]

Just woke up, sifting through the last 20 pages. I wanted to ask something that has been bugging me for a few days now.

Has the idea been kicked around at all that Cerberus wanted us to find Javik?

[Unschuld]

HyperGlass wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

So, low EMS means you are only presented with the option that matches YOUR values as a player. Again, brilliant by Bioware. 

Still what about no waking up having low EMS and destroying the Collector Base. What does that mean for IT?

Without the mind, the body cannot survive... or something like that. Low EMS Shepard is also low on hope, and doesn't think he'll live. When you think of it that way, it really makes just as much sense as surviving because  you gathered a ginormous fleet.