Aller au contenu

Photo

Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


55528 réponses à ce sujet

#476
HellishFiend

HellishFiend
  • Members
  • 5 546 messages

The Invisible Commando wrote...

I really doubt this was in their minds and make that clear. I think people want to believe in an infalable Bioware that has made an ending so genious the eyes can not process it. IT is looking for hidden messages and secret codes that prove the ending is awsome.

There is not magic trick here, its just a Dues Ex rush job trying to make an ending that looked cool but made no sense. Now Bioware is forced to fix it at EA's expence. If I had said Shepard is indoctrinated after ME2, these same people would have laughed at the thought. I am sorry we got a bad ending, but we need not look for ways to make it work by force.


Thank you for your opinion. 

If you wish to continue to discuss why you think the Indoctrination Theory is incorrect, there are many other topics in which you can do so and remain on-topic. This topic is for the ongoing discussion of the Theory itself, and we do not wish to get this one locked as well. 

#477
NoSpin

NoSpin
  • Members
  • 369 messages
Regarding the voice actors...they may have had IT planned, doesn't mean they had the EC planned. As in, IT will be a decent expansion pack that is already recorded but nowhere near done yet. The backlash was unexpected, and as a result they are throwing together something to hold people over and/or bash them over the head that indoctrination is actually happening.

But we don't know, it's all just "speculations".

#478
Uncle Jo

Uncle Jo
  • Members
  • 2 161 messages

byne wrote...

It'd be nice if Bioware had bothered telling us that. Or really anything about the Reapers at all, other than the crazy stuff godchild spews.

IMO if Bioware told us that, it would have had a pretty big impact on the ending (making it obvious).
I mean if it was true that we could beat them conventionally that'd make the Crucible useless and somewhat suspicious... If we couldn't then the Crucible must have inevitably a role (which one?): either it actually can wipe out/shut down the reapers or it's really a trap (what I personally think) and then...

@MaximizedAction
Thanks for the info. Dante told me already that I wasn't dreaming but I didn't know that was EDI who actually tells it. (thanks to the Zaeed/Kasumi dialogues)

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 15 mai 2012 - 12:17 .


#479
DJBare

DJBare
  • Members
  • 6 510 messages

Aaleel wrote...

No way they planned the IT.  If they did, they wouldn't need to be calling all the voice actors/actresses back.  It would have been finished, and ready to go.  They never would have let things get this bad.

I'll bet you they did plan it, I'd also bet they expected this backlash, there is no way in this universe that ending got released without someone at Bioware saying "WTF is this!!"; not a hope, nada, no way in hell,I just cannot imagine after the entire series they would let there flag ship game go out with a whimper, no chance.

#480
Alex Arterius

Alex Arterius
  • Members
  • 560 messages

Aaleel wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Alex Arterius wrote...

So tell me guys.
I don't really come to this thread much (or the old one, should I say).

But what kinda percentage of people here do think this is what Bioware were going for with the ending? And how many think it's not true and just a coincidence? Just wondering on the split really.

Thanksssss :)


I'm very convinced this was Bioware's plan from the start. And it's based on highly compelling evidence, precedent, and context. NOT wishful thinking, as many Anti-IT would have you believe. 


No way they planned the IT.  If they did, they wouldn't need to be calling all the voice actors/actresses back.  It would have been finished, and ready to go.  They never would have let things get this bad.

At the very best IMHO, it could have been an intention that was abandoned due to time constraints, and now they would be going in an piecing some of what they started together, and now building onto that with whatever work they're doing now.  


Reckon we gave them too much to go on?

I mean i'm kinda split 50/50 the theory is amazing and is very well thought out. Yet I find it hard to believe Bioware planned all this... and it just doesn't fit in too well with the last 10 minutes.

I wonder if we've given them a bit of a "get out of jail free card" if yano what I mean..

#481
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

HellishFiend wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

No way they planned the IT.  If they did, they wouldn't need to be calling all the voice actors/actresses back.  It would have been finished, and ready to go.  They never would have let things get this bad.

At the very best IMHO, it could have been an intention that was abandoned due to time constraints, and now they would be going in an piecing some of what they started together, and now building onto that with whatever work they're doing now.  


Thank you for your opinion, I'll stick with mine, thanks. 

Them calling the VA's back when they did makes perfect sense if one considers the fact that Bioware has stated they wanted to use fan feedback to shape the story. 


They already stated they had no plans to make the EC, that doesn't preclude them from having planned IDT.

What I picture their DLC schedule as having been was something along the lines of;

A). Start up the ANN twitter, giving "real time" newsfeeds from before the attack, and leading up to the attack, and into the beginning of the war, create some story and plotlines and finish a few others off, get fans hyped.

B) Release Mass Effect 3 to general applause, multiplayer is generally enjoyed by people, and it is used as a way of integrating the war effort into the story, it also allows players to become  soldiers in the war in a sense, giving them a feeling of being involved in the war effort, the game is much beloved, excepting the ending, which is seen as strange, out of place and mediocre at best, but it satisfies fans, while also causing them to speculate to keep them interested and involved in the game even after they finish.

C). Keep doing multiplayer events, which coincide with major operations in the war, on certain dates, release single player DLC, which coincides with major battles and events, such as the retaking of Omega.

D). Keep updating the ANN twitter feed, keeping fans interested and involved in the progress of the war as they follow along.

E). Keep releasing multiplayer packs, allowing the players to take part as new races, as these new races gradually join the war effort.

F). The ANN Twitter timeline, which is about a month or so of when the Siege of Earth is supposed to take place, finally reaches the events of Chronos Station, at which point, the next day, when the Siege of Earth is supposed to take place, a DLC featuring the "true" final ending is revealed in which Shepard was undergoing indoctrination, and players end up having to load from their "Legendsave" and are forced to play through that paticular playthrough, facing the consequences of their actions.

G). Mike Gamble, Casey Hudson, Ray Musyka and Mac Walters all share a bottle of bubbly as Bioware is hailed as the most brilliant game developer of all time. 

The problem with this whole thing is step 2 didn't get off the ground, people WEREN'T satisfied with the ending and chose to get mad rather than speculate, Bioware expected some of this (how could they not after DA2?) and was prepared for some backlash with a buisness plan where the only thing at steak was their reputation, but they didn't count on the sheer AMOUNT of pure, unleaded vitriol leveled at them, and the sheer number of people whom just "didn't get it" as well as the fact that they felt they hadn't been granted enough closure to stomach the ending.

Hence why Bioware has to make the EC, to make things a bit more obvious so that people will be satisfied to wait for the "Seige of Earth DLC".

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 15 mai 2012 - 12:27 .


#482
DJBare

DJBare
  • Members
  • 6 510 messages

Alex Arterius wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Alex Arterius wrote...

So tell me guys.
I don't really come to this thread much (or the old one, should I say).

But what kinda percentage of people here do think this is what Bioware were going for with the ending? And how many think it's not true and just a coincidence? Just wondering on the split really.

Thanksssss :)


I'm very convinced this was Bioware's plan from the start. And it's based on highly compelling evidence, precedent, and context. NOT wishful thinking, as many Anti-IT would have you believe. 


No way they planned the IT.  If they did, they wouldn't need to be calling all the voice actors/actresses back.  It would have been finished, and ready to go.  They never would have let things get this bad.

At the very best IMHO, it could have been an intention that was abandoned due to time constraints, and now they would be going in an piecing some of what they started together, and now building onto that with whatever work they're doing now.  


Reckon we gave them too much to go on?

I mean i'm kinda split 50/50 the theory is amazing and is very well thought out. Yet I find it hard to believe Bioware planned all this... and it just doesn't fit in too well with the last 10 minutes.

I wonder if we've given them a bit of a "get out of jail free card" if yano what I mean..

We already know from the Final Hours app that Bioware had this planned, saying they dropped the idea would be wise given that indoctrination is about deception and betrayal.

#483
OneWithTheAssassins

OneWithTheAssassins
  • Members
  • 462 messages
I'm gone for five hours and you guys get the thread lock?!
WTF guys? Did you insult their mothers or something?
Oh well, lets take this as an oportunity to take all we've learned and discused and put it on the front page for those new or confused about the IT and not have them jump to random pages hoping to get lucky.

#484
DJBare

DJBare
  • Members
  • 6 510 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

They already stated they had no plans to make the EC, that doesn't preclude them from havving planned IDT.

What I picture their DLC schedule as having been was something along the lines of;

Yup, that's what they stated ;)

Why is it so difficult to get across to people the concept of indoctrinating the player?

#485
MAXinsanity409

MAXinsanity409
  • Members
  • 104 messages
The first thread became too big, I'm guessing?

#486
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

MAXinsanity409 wrote...

The first thread became too big, I'm guessing?


No, some troll managed to do the impossible and draw the ire of Priestly, whom I have now disowned as my own personal deity. 

*inverts his holy symbol of Priestly*

#487
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages
Also, DJBare, good to see ya.

And, on a side not, anyone notice the page the thread got locked on? 2286. The 100 year anniversary of the Reaper War.

#488
byne

byne
  • Members
  • 7 811 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, DJBare, good to see ya.

And, on a side not, anyone notice the page the thread got locked on? 2286. The 100 year anniversary of the Reaper War.


mind = blown

#489
BatmanTurian

BatmanTurian
  • Members
  • 4 735 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, DJBare, good to see ya.

And, on a side not, anyone notice the page the thread got locked on? 2286. The 100 year anniversary of the Reaper War.


w o w

#490
paxxton

paxxton
  • Members
  • 8 445 messages
Hey Arian did you posted that wall of text you promised?

Arian Dynas wrote...
And, on a side not, anyone notice the page the thread got locked on? 2286. The 100 year anniversary of the Reaper War.


Oh no, not another mystery.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 mai 2012 - 12:33 .


#491
NoSpin

NoSpin
  • Members
  • 369 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, DJBare, good to see ya.

And, on a side not, anyone notice the page the thread got locked on? 2286. The 100 year anniversary of the Reaper War.


Oh....my...glob.

#492
SS2Dante

SS2Dante
  • Members
  • 1 263 messages

HellishFiend wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

No way they planned the IT.  If they did, they wouldn't need to be calling all the voice actors/actresses back.  It would have been finished, and ready to go.  They never would have let things get this bad.

At the very best IMHO, it could have been an intention that was abandoned due to time constraints, and now they would be going in an piecing some of what they started together, and now building onto that with whatever work they're doing now.  


Thank you for your opinion, I'll stick with mine, thanks. 

Them calling the VA's back when they did makes perfect sense if one considers the fact that Bioware has stated they wanted to use fan feedback to shape the story. 


Or if they wanted to keep it secret. Many precedents

#493
Uncle Jo

Uncle Jo
  • Members
  • 2 161 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, DJBare, good to see ya.

And, on a side not, anyone notice the page the thread got locked on? 2286. The 100 year anniversary of the Reaper War.

And a possible beginning for ME4 ?

#494
Parabolee77

Parabolee77
  • Members
  • 125 messages

BatmanTurian wrote...

I want to bring up another argument by Literalists that has been coming up (though I know it's by a certain ultratroll that we all love to hate because he never backs up his argument.)

Now they're basically using the Bill Clinton argument ( "It depends what your definition of is is") against the definition of indoctrination. Basically they're saying the " under full control of the Reapers " is not the same as indoctrination and that TIM might be using something else to control Anderson and Shepard. They're basically saying that we jumped to conclusions when we said that " under full reaper control " in the Final Hours App automatically meant indoctrination.

Frankly, I'm sick of this argument and it's become cancerous so I would love if we could figure out a way to handle this B.S.


Well there is a well established name for when someone is under "full reaper control". They talk about it in the comics, and the books and the games too.

It's called INDOCTRINATION!

:o

Modifié par Parabolee77, 15 mai 2012 - 12:35 .


#495
DJBare

DJBare
  • Members
  • 6 510 messages

SS2Dante wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

No way they planned the IT.  If they did, they wouldn't need to be calling all the voice actors/actresses back.  It would have been finished, and ready to go.  They never would have let things get this bad.

At the very best IMHO, it could have been an intention that was abandoned due to time constraints, and now they would be going in an piecing some of what they started together, and now building onto that with whatever work they're doing now.  


Thank you for your opinion, I'll stick with mine, thanks. 

Them calling the VA's back when they did makes perfect sense if one considers the fact that Bioware has stated they wanted to use fan feedback to shape the story. 


Or if they wanted to keep it secret. Many precedents

That makes a lot of sense, keep any risk of leaks to a minimum.

#496
Reptilian Rob

Reptilian Rob
  • Members
  • 5 964 messages

NoSpin wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, DJBare, good to see ya.

And, on a side not, anyone notice the page the thread got locked on? 2286. The 100 year anniversary of the Reaper War.


Oh....my...glob.

Oh god...That's pushing it a bit don't you think? lol

#497
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages
[quote]paxxton wrote...

Hey Arian did you posted that wall of text you promised?

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...
And, on a side note, anyone notice the page the thread got locked on? 2286. The 100 year anniversary of the Reaper War.[/quote]

Oh no, not another mystery.[/quote]

Unfortunately yes, and unfortunately it got locked. Thanks for nothing Chris.

[quote]Uncle Jo wrote...

*snip*

[/quote]And a possible beginning for ME4 ?
[/quote] 

Could be, but I doubt it, they wouldn't want to put it even 50 years out, we'd loose too many familiar and beloved characters, we'd want to see everyone in a sort of Wrex suitation, Wrex being the new Krogan leader, Liara a major player in politics, Primarch Vakarian, Admiral Tali'Zorah Vas Rannoch, ect.

#498
balance5050

balance5050
  • Members
  • 5 245 messages

DJBare wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

No way they planned the IT.  If they did, they wouldn't need to be calling all the voice actors/actresses back.  It would have been finished, and ready to go.  They never would have let things get this bad.

At the very best IMHO, it could have been an intention that was abandoned due to time constraints, and now they would be going in an piecing some of what they started together, and now building onto that with whatever work they're doing now.  


Thank you for your opinion, I'll stick with mine, thanks. 

Them calling the VA's back when they did makes perfect sense if one considers the fact that Bioware has stated they wanted to use fan feedback to shape the story. 


Or if they wanted to keep it secret. Many precedents

That makes a lot of sense, keep any risk of leaks to a minimum.


Didn't the cast of the original StarWars get a script where some parts were purposefully wrong and Lucas didn't even tell them until they were actually shooting the scenes? I think I heard that somewhere.....

Modifié par balance5050, 15 mai 2012 - 12:44 .


#499
Domanese

Domanese
  • Members
  • 334 messages

Rifneno wrote...

Domanese wrote...

Why not just simply put up a picture of the Collectors with the message of "You mean complete control in this fashion? They're indoctrinated as well." Oh and for those who still Control is the best try telling that to David Archer. Im sure he has five words for you.


"Square root of 906.01 equals 30.1"?


QUIET PLEASE! MAKE IT STOP!!!

#500
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

balance5050 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

No way they planned the IT.  If they did, they wouldn't need to be calling all the voice actors/actresses back.  It would have been finished, and ready to go.  They never would have let things get this bad.

At the very best IMHO, it could have been an intention that was abandoned due to time constraints, and now they would be going in an piecing some of what they started together, and now building onto that with whatever work they're doing now.  


Thank you for your opinion, I'll stick with mine, thanks. 

Them calling the VA's back when they did makes perfect sense if one considers the fact that Bioware has stated they wanted to use fan feedback to shape the story. 


Or if they wanted to keep it secret. Many precedents

That makes a lot of sense, keep any risk of leaks to a minimum.


Didn't the cast of the original StarWars get a script where some parts were purposefully wrong and Lucas didn't even tell them until they were actually shooting the scenes? I think I heard that somewhere.....


Yepper, David Prowse was told it was Obi Wan whom killed Luke's Father, Hammil wasn't told until about 5 minutes beforehand, and James Earl Jones was only told during recording, his first words? "Oh he's lying..."