55528 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@MegumiAzusa: So I checked it and I got the Stargazer scene on a non-import playthrough.

Check the post of Thorn Harvestar, seems to be bound to the achievement.

Why would it be so?

[HyperGlass]

Rifneno wrote...

While we're on the topic of EMS, if 5000 is enough to let Anderson die and survive, can I let Javik die and survive?

Yes you you are guarnteed to survive with 5000 pretty much.:happy:
Edit: It take it you play MP often?

Modifié par HyperGlass, 23 mai 2012 - 04:47 .

[Xavendithas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

I interpreted it as BioWares way of trying to cement in our heads the belief that the war really was over, what we did led to some sort of peace sans Reapers. Something to make you believe in the illusion that much more.

I believe that entire scene is actually complete fiction, speaking directly to the player, hinting that there is more to come. 

Before you say "Fiction within fiction? lolwut Blasto the Hanar Spectre?" Allow me to explain. 

Kid (representing the player): Did that all really happen? (Is that really the ending?)
Stargazer (representing Bioware): Yes, but some of the details have been lost in time (The details are coming, but they will take some time)
Kid: When can I go to the stars? (When is the real ending/dlc coming?)
Stargazer: One day my sweet. (Be patient)
Kid: What will be there? (obvious)
Stargazer: Anything you can imagine! (We'll take your feedback into account)
Stargazer: ...and every life is a special story of its own (everyone's story will be wrapped up when we're done)
Kid: Tell me another story about the Shepard (obvious)
Stargazer: It's getting late but, okay, one more story... ()

I agree with this interpretation of it. It hinges on the idea that BioWare thought people would be more pleased with the ending than they were, which has been my opinion ever since the initial shock of the ending wore off for me.

[LazyTechGuy]

This must've already been brought up but just in case:

Marc Walters' infamous notes from the Final Hours app has a line that says "[...] End of First Matrix".  We've already compared the ShepBreath scene with the NeoBreath scene, right?  How both have been killed by the antagonist and then both take a gasp and return to the world as a different person.  People could take Walters' line and assume that he's refering to the brave new world we're now in, but maybe he means something more specific, like Neo/Shepard's path?  Seems to support IT.

[MegumiAzusa]

HyperGlass wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

While we're on the topic of EMS, if 5000 is enough to let Anderson die and survive, can I let Javik die and survive?

Yes you you are guarnteed to survive with 5000 pretty much.:happy:
Edit: It take it you play MP often?

8280 is nothing, you've got 14 promotions... a friend of mine has 36 and didn't really play the last month because of connection problems. I'm not much a fan of promoting anyway and I got 9.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 23 mai 2012 - 04:56 .

[SnazzyBeast]

Hello, new here. I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@MegumiAzusa: So I checked it and I got the Stargazer scene on a non-import playthrough.

Check the post of Thorn Harvestar, seems to be bound to the achievement.

Why would it be so?

Makes sense to me. You also gain access to unlocked bonus powers in subsequent non-import playthroughs, remember? Also recall ME1, where achievement bonuses affected all playthroughs, not just your current one. 

[HellishFiend]

Xavendithas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

I interpreted it as BioWares way of trying to cement in our heads the belief that the war really was over, what we did led to some sort of peace sans Reapers. Something to make you believe in the illusion that much more.

I believe that entire scene is actually complete fiction, speaking directly to the player, hinting that there is more to come. 

Before you say "Fiction within fiction? lolwut Blasto the Hanar Spectre?" Allow me to explain. 

Kid (representing the player): Did that all really happen? (Is that really the ending?)
Stargazer (representing Bioware): Yes, but some of the details have been lost in time (The details are coming, but they will take some time)
Kid: When can I go to the stars? (When is the real ending/dlc coming?)
Stargazer: One day my sweet. (Be patient)
Kid: What will be there? (obvious)
Stargazer: Anything you can imagine! (We'll take your feedback into account)
Stargazer: ...and every life is a special story of its own (everyone's story will be wrapped up when we're done)
Kid: Tell me another story about the Shepard (obvious)
Stargazer: It's getting late but, okay, one more story... ()

I agree with this interpretation of it. It hinges on the idea that BioWare thought people would be more pleased with the ending than they were, which has been my opinion ever since the initial shock of the ending wore off for me.

I agree. Thanks! 

[MegumiAzusa]

HellishFiend wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

I interpreted it as BioWares way of trying to cement in our heads the belief that the war really was over, what we did led to some sort of peace sans Reapers. Something to make you believe in the illusion that much more.

I believe that entire scene is actually complete fiction, speaking directly to the player, hinting that there is more to come. 

Before you say "Fiction within fiction? lolwut Blasto the Hanar Spectre?" Allow me to explain. 

Kid (representing the player): Did that all really happen? (Is that really the ending?)
Stargazer (representing Bioware): Yes, but some of the details have been lost in time (The details are coming, but they will take some time)
Kid: When can I go to the stars? (When is the real ending/dlc coming?)
Stargazer: One day my sweet. (Be patient)
Kid: What will be there? (obvious)
Stargazer: Anything you can imagine! (We'll take your feedback into account)
Stargazer: ...and every life is a special story of its own (everyone's story will be wrapped up when we're done)
Kid: Tell me another story about the Shepard (obvious)
Stargazer: It's getting late but, okay, one more story... ()

I agree with this interpretation of it. It hinges on the idea that BioWare thought people would be more pleased with the ending than they were, which has been my opinion ever since the initial shock of the ending wore off for me.

I agree. Thanks! 

I can agree, we are the Child, and BioWare is Stargazer.
I would just do a some tweaks like: "Yes, but some of the details have been lost in time" to "there was some stuff (missions, quests etc) we couldn't implement at the time or because of time constraints".

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 23 mai 2012 - 05:08 .

[llbountyhunter]

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Hello, new here. I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

1. yeah I agree that they wanted some wiggle room, but I also think IT was maybe their "ideal" ending of the ones they had based on the sheer amount of evidence


2. thats pretty much what most people think an every mass effect game. shepard proves them all wrong. twice.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 23 mai 2012 - 05:17 .

[HellishFiend]

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Hello, new here. I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

1 - I disagree, actually. I believe Indoctrination was the intended ending all along, and that belief is reinforced by the statements from Bioware that, in no uncertain terms, state that they are not "changing" the ending, and that they believe in their "artistic vision" for it. As for full-on hallucinations, I'm not sure if that has any precedent, but even if it doesnt, that doesnt necessarily preclude it. 

2 - I dont agree with that interpretation, actually. If anything, I think the Reapers are the very thing they insist was inevitable - a creation that rebelled against it's creators, and is a threat to all organic life. They arent our protectors and guardians against that inevitability, they are that inevitability. 


edit: Sorry, I'm being rude. Firstly, welcome to the topic. Feel free to post anytime.  

Modifié par HellishFiend, 23 mai 2012 - 05:13 .

[HellishFiend]

MegumiAzusa wrote...


I can agree, we are the Child, and BioWare is Stargazer.
I would just do a some tweaks like: "Yes, but some of the details have been lost in time" to "there was some stuff (missions, quests etc) we couldn't implement at the time or because of time constraints".

Wow, I hadnt considered that. I like that better than my version. I will update the post. 

[Lord Luc1fer]

Just thought of something, If (just for a moment) we took the endings at face value, wasn't shepard the VERY WORST person to allow to reach the conduit and use the crucible. The greatest enemy of the reapers, who has all along sworn to destroy them? As has been mentioned previously anyway, the practicalities of control and synthesis are ridculous - if the reapers had the ability to synethise all life together by someone chucking themself into a beam, why didn't they just throw somebody in themselves, as it is obviously their goal?

But no, for some reason, an organic has to CHOOSE the synthesis or control options and by the way; what technically dictates this person would have to be Shep? He has no actually physically unique about him that makes this role necessary for Shepard an only Shepard.

Once we have this established, we can assume it did not *have to be* Shepard, and with the Reaper's military superiority, they could easily have stopped him getting as far as the crucible. This suggests the reapers, in face-value, WANTED Shepard to reach the crucible.

Now I'll go back to the start of my logic. Why is Shepard, of all people, given the choice that will decide the Reaper's fate when he is very clearly the person the reapers don't want to give a destroy option to? ANYBODY else is more likely to choose control or synthesis than Shepard.

TL;DR? The reapers, even in face value, obviously allow shepard to reach the crucible and this goes agaist all their motives considering shepard is the least likely person to choose the "ending" they want to the cycle


Hope this makes some sort of sense? I know my contributions are always of little to no interest or use

[HellishFiend]

Ok MegumiAzusa, I updated the OP of the topic I made for my idea:

http://social.biowar...ndex/12200743/1

Again, thanks for the suggestion! It's a good one.

[TSA_383]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Thomasrifkins wrote...

Dracorequiem wrote...

Dracorequiem wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

prettz wrote...

hears a short video of some strange sounds I noticed at end game.
www.youtube.com/watch

Nice! Can any people knowledgable about music determine what notes those chimes are at the beginning of that vid? Could potentially be a clue. 

no joke, the chime notes are A, B, C.

My mind = blown to smithereeens. It's like inception and they're trying desperately to tell us how terrible the literal ending is.

ah nvm just doublechecked it's ACE. i just wanted to believe the other

Neither, I get D E G

So its D E G then? Anyone able to speculate what that might mean? I got nothing. Perhaps it's meaningless.

Maybe it's along the lines of this?

The notes are pitch-modulated with a fast LFO so whatever note you think they're on you'll tend to aim high of the average.

That said, the train noises are interesting, has anyone tried recording the synthesis and destroy ending in the same way? I've said for a while we've been missing a lot in the sounds...

[MegumiAzusa]

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Just thought of something, If (just for a moment) we took the endings at face value, wasn't shepard the VERY WORST person to allow to reach the conduit and use the crucible. The greatest enemy of the reapers, who has all along sworn to destroy them? As has been mentioned previously anyway, the practicalities of control and synthesis are ridculous - if the reapers had the ability to synethise all life together by someone chucking themself into a beam, why didn't they just throw somebody in themselves, as it is obviously their goal?

Because "but I can't make it happen" they can't, let it be programming constraints or whatever, but they just can't.

[Dwailing]

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Just thought of something, If (just for a moment) we took the endings at face value, wasn't shepard the VERY WORST person to allow to reach the conduit and use the crucible. The greatest enemy of the reapers, who has all along sworn to destroy them? As has been mentioned previously anyway, the practicalities of control and synthesis are ridculous - if the reapers had the ability to synethise all life together by someone chucking themself into a beam, why didn't they just throw somebody in themselves, as it is obviously their goal?

But no, for some reason, an organic has to CHOOSE the synthesis or control options and by the way; what technically dictates this person would have to be Shep? He has no actually physically unique about him that makes this role necessary for Shepard an only Shepard.

Once we have this established, we can assume it did not *have to be* Shepard, and with the Reaper's military superiority, they could easily have stopped him getting as far as the crucible. This suggests the reapers, in face-value, WANTED Shepard to reach the crucible.

Now I'll go back to the start of my logic. Why is Shepard, of all people, given the choice that will decide the Reaper's fate when he is very clearly the person the reapers don't want to give a destroy option to? ANYBODY else is more likely to choose control or synthesis than Shepard.

TL;DR? The reapers, even in face value, obviously allow shepard to reach the crucible and this goes agaist all their motives considering shepard is the least likely person to choose the "ending" they want to the cycle


Hope this makes some sort of sense? I know my contributions are always of little to no interest or use

Actually, that's an interesting point.  Assuming face value, we KNOW that Harbinger chose not to kill Shepard.  Think about it, the beam didn't directly hit him, it hit right in front of him.  If it had hit Shepard, he would have been vaporized (Or close to it, anyway.).  Instead, he survives (Admitedly in bad shape.).  Why?

[Lord Luc1fer]

Dwailing wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Just thought of something, If (just for a moment) we took the endings at face value, wasn't shepard the VERY WORST person to allow to reach the conduit and use the crucible. The greatest enemy of the reapers, who has all along sworn to destroy them? As has been mentioned previously anyway, the practicalities of control and synthesis are ridculous - if the reapers had the ability to synethise all life together by someone chucking themself into a beam, why didn't they just throw somebody in themselves, as it is obviously their goal?

But no, for some reason, an organic has to CHOOSE the synthesis or control options and by the way; what technically dictates this person would have to be Shep? He has no actually physically unique about him that makes this role necessary for Shepard an only Shepard.

Once we have this established, we can assume it did not *have to be* Shepard, and with the Reaper's military superiority, they could easily have stopped him getting as far as the crucible. This suggests the reapers, in face-value, WANTED Shepard to reach the crucible.

Now I'll go back to the start of my logic. Why is Shepard, of all people, given the choice that will decide the Reaper's fate when he is very clearly the person the reapers don't want to give a destroy option to? ANYBODY else is more likely to choose control or synthesis than Shepard.

TL;DR? The reapers, even in face value, obviously allow shepard to reach the crucible and this goes agaist all their motives considering shepard is the least likely person to choose the "ending" they want to the cycle


Hope this makes some sort of sense? I know my contributions are always of little to no interest or use

Actually, that's an interesting point.  Assuming face value, we KNOW that Harbinger chose not to kill Shepard.  Think about it, the beam didn't directly hit him, it hit right in front of him.  If it had hit Shepard, he would have been vaporized (Or close to it, anyway.).  Instead, he survives (Admitedly in bad shape.).  Why?

 Yay! My point is interesting!  I honestly can't think why shep could live in a face value ending unless the reapers were dumb enough to trust everything into starbinger's transparent powers of persuasion

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Just thought of something, If (just for a moment) we took the endings at face value, wasn't shepard the VERY WORST person to allow to reach the conduit and use the crucible. The greatest enemy of the reapers, who has all along sworn to destroy them? As has been mentioned previously anyway, the practicalities of control and synthesis are ridculous - if the reapers had the ability to synethise all life together by someone chucking themself into a beam, why didn't they just throw somebody in themselves, as it is obviously their goal?

But no, for some reason, an organic has to CHOOSE the synthesis or control options and by the way; what technically dictates this person would have to be Shep? He has no actually physically unique about him that makes this role necessary for Shepard an only Shepard.

Once we have this established, we can assume it did not *have to be* Shepard, and with the Reaper's military superiority, they could easily have stopped him getting as far as the crucible. This suggests the reapers, in face-value, WANTED Shepard to reach the crucible.

Now I'll go back to the start of my logic. Why is Shepard, of all people, given the choice that will decide the Reaper's fate when he is very clearly the person the reapers don't want to give a destroy option to? ANYBODY else is more likely to choose control or synthesis than Shepard.

TL;DR? The reapers, even in face value, obviously allow shepard to reach the crucible and this goes agaist all their motives considering shepard is the least likely person to choose the "ending" they want to the cycle


Hope this makes some sort of sense? I know my contributions are always of little to no interest or use

Actually, that's an interesting point.  Assuming face value, we KNOW that Harbinger chose not to kill Shepard.  Think about it, the beam didn't directly hit him, it hit right in front of him.  If it had hit Shepard, he would have been vaporized (Or close to it, anyway.).  Instead, he survives (Admitedly in bad shape.).  Why?

Yep, I agree. Except I'd take it a step further and say the events laid out in Lord Luc1fer's post (as well as Harbinger not killing Shepard, as you say) make it almost impossibly unlikely that the ending can be taken at face value at all. 

[Lord Luc1fer]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Just thought of something, If (just for a moment) we took the endings at face value, wasn't shepard the VERY WORST person to allow to reach the conduit and use the crucible. The greatest enemy of the reapers, who has all along sworn to destroy them? As has been mentioned previously anyway, the practicalities of control and synthesis are ridculous - if the reapers had the ability to synethise all life together by someone chucking themself into a beam, why didn't they just throw somebody in themselves, as it is obviously their goal?

Because "but I can't make it happen" they can't, let it be programming constraints or whatever, but they just can't.

 OK, starkid can't make it happen himself, but he could persuade someone more complient to do what he wants? more compliant than shep anyway

[llbountyhunter]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Just thought of something, If (just for a moment) we took the endings at face value, wasn't shepard the VERY WORST person to allow to reach the conduit and use the crucible. The greatest enemy of the reapers, who has all along sworn to destroy them? As has been mentioned previously anyway, the practicalities of control and synthesis are ridculous - if the reapers had the ability to synethise all life together by someone chucking themself into a beam, why didn't they just throw somebody in themselves, as it is obviously their goal?

But no, for some reason, an organic has to CHOOSE the synthesis or control options and by the way; what technically dictates this person would have to be Shep? He has no actually physically unique about him that makes this role necessary for Shepard an only Shepard.

Once we have this established, we can assume it did not *have to be* Shepard, and with the Reaper's military superiority, they could easily have stopped him getting as far as the crucible. This suggests the reapers, in face-value, WANTED Shepard to reach the crucible.

Now I'll go back to the start of my logic. Why is Shepard, of all people, given the choice that will decide the Reaper's fate when he is very clearly the person the reapers don't want to give a destroy option to? ANYBODY else is more likely to choose control or synthesis than Shepard.

TL;DR? The reapers, even in face value, obviously allow shepard to reach the crucible and this goes agaist all their motives considering shepard is the least likely person to choose the "ending" they want to the cycle


Hope this makes some sort of sense? I know my contributions are always of little to no interest or use

Actually, that's an interesting point.  Assuming face value, we KNOW that Harbinger chose not to kill Shepard.  Think about it, the beam didn't directly hit him, it hit right in front of him.  If it had hit Shepard, he would have been vaporized (Or close to it, anyway.).  Instead, he survives (Admitedly in bad shape.).  Why?

Yep, I agree. Except I'd take it a step further and say the events laid out in Lord Luc1fer's post (as well as Harbinger not killing Shepard, as you say) make it almost impossibly unlikely that the ending can be taken at face value at all. 

dont forget shepards sudden imunity to explosions....

[MegumiAzusa]

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Thomasrifkins wrote...

Dracorequiem wrote...

Dracorequiem wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

prettz wrote...

hears a short video of some strange sounds I noticed at end game.
www.youtube.com/watch

Nice! Can any people knowledgable about music determine what notes those chimes are at the beginning of that vid? Could potentially be a clue. 

no joke, the chime notes are A, B, C.

My mind = blown to smithereeens. It's like inception and they're trying desperately to tell us how terrible the literal ending is.

ah nvm just doublechecked it's ACE. i just wanted to believe the other

Neither, I get D E G

So its D E G then? Anyone able to speculate what that might mean? I got nothing. Perhaps it's meaningless.

Maybe it's along the lines of this?

The notes are pitch-modulated with a fast LFO so whatever note you think they're on you'll tend to aim high of the average.

That said, the train noises are interesting, has anyone tried recording the synthesis and destroy ending in the same way? I've said for a while we've been missing a lot in the sounds...

Now again for the ones who have no clue about music?
You can find them in the game files:
biod_end002_510red.Wwise_End002_Streaming.cineanim_end02_flashback_anderson
biod_end002_510red.Wwise_End002_Streaming.cineanim_end02_flashback_joker
biod_end002_510red.Wwise_End002_Streaming.cineanim_end02_flashback_rom

The sound with the "train" would be
biod_end002_520blue.Wwise_End002_Streaming.cineanim_end02_blue_insert

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 23 mai 2012 - 05:26 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Just thought of something, If (just for a moment) we took the endings at face value, wasn't shepard the VERY WORST person to allow to reach the conduit and use the crucible. The greatest enemy of the reapers, who has all along sworn to destroy them? As has been mentioned previously anyway, the practicalities of control and synthesis are ridculous - if the reapers had the ability to synethise all life together by someone chucking themself into a beam, why didn't they just throw somebody in themselves, as it is obviously their goal?

Because "but I can't make it happen" they can't, let it be programming constraints or whatever, but they just can't.

 OK, starkid can't make it happen himself, but he could persuade someone more complient to do what he wants? more compliant than shep anyway

No, it can't. If it could do that it could make it happen.

[paxxton]

So while checking the presence of the Stargazer scene in a non-import playthrough I got an answer from TIM. He says "Because I NEED you to believe." Why does he need Shepard to be on his side?

[MegumiAzusa]

paxxton wrote...

So while checking the presence of the Stargazer scene in a non-import playthrough I got an answer from TIM. He says "Because I NEED you to believe." Why does he need Shepard to be on his side?

Because he said on Mars he didn't care if Shep believes. It should have been a hint.