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[Arian Dynas]

WandySilva wrote...

Anyone else wonder if there is some deep seeded symbolism in shepards gun in the rbg endings? the camera makes specific note to show shepards actions with his gun in all three endings, dropping it both control and synthesis (his will to fight the reapers is gone, essencially, giving into their will), whereas he grips the gun with both hands and fires in the destroy ending, where, during all scenes after being hit by harbinger, he is only ever seen holding and shooting his gun with his right hand (possibly alluding to a strengthened resolve to destroy the reapers?). If nothing else, it is interesting the amount of emphasis placed is on his gun.

...

Either you're new here, or you haven't been paying much attention. 

[Simon_Says]

The guns are definitely symbolic. Bioware even specifically brought it up during the geth consensus mission.

Oh, and a little something from our friend Wiks.

Padok Wiks said...

All I've ever done my entire career is destroy the natural course of the universe. This is my chance to make amends.

Anti-synthesis. Possibly anti-control. Throw this quote on the pile.

[WandySilva]

Arian Dynas wrote...

WandySilva wrote...

Anyone else wonder if there is some deep seeded symbolism in shepards gun in the rbg endings? the camera makes specific note to show shepards actions with his gun in all three endings, dropping it both control and synthesis (his will to fight the reapers is gone, essencially, giving into their will), whereas he grips the gun with both hands and fires in the destroy ending, where, during all scenes after being hit by harbinger, he is only ever seen holding and shooting his gun with his right hand (possibly alluding to a strengthened resolve to destroy the reapers?). If nothing else, it is interesting the amount of emphasis placed is on his gun.

...

Either you're new here, or you haven't been paying much attention. 

or i dont have time to go through ~4000 pages

[smokingotter1]

WandySilva wrote...

Anyone else wonder if there is some deep seeded symbolism in shepards gun in the rbg endings? the camera makes specific note to show shepards actions with his gun in all three endings, dropping it both control and synthesis (his will to fight the reapers is gone, essencially, giving into their will), whereas he grips the gun with both hands and fires in the destroy ending, where, during all scenes after being hit by harbinger, he is only ever seen holding and shooting his gun with his right hand (possibly alluding to a strengthened resolve to destroy the reapers?). If nothing else, it is interesting the amount of emphasis placed is on his gun.

THIS x9000.

Not only does Shepard's physically change in ME3 from carnifex to his standard Predator but if you listen closely to the destroy ending the 2nd-3rd shot Shepard takes you can actually hear the sound of the gun change from carnifex to predator.

The argument I'm working on is that the decision chamber is an overlay of the conduit run. The decision chamber is also an allusion to Arthur Miller's "The Crucible" where the protagonist John Proctor is put on trial and at the end is given the option to repent or to go to the gallows. John Proctor chooses not to repent and is executed.

The decision chamber is Shepard's trial and the jury/judge/executioner is the Reapers. The reapers give Shepard two options to repent his sins, throw his gun down and embrace the reapers.

The third option "destroy" involves Shepard refusing to confess even though he is partly synthetic, the reapers imply heavily that the destroy option will kill Shepard.

Since the decision chamber is an overlay of the conduit run what is "happening" in the decision chamber is happening in real life. When Shepard chooses destroy he heads to the right in the same direction that Harbinger's beam was coming from. Like John Proctor John Shepard (or Jane) is being sent to his execution. Only if you EMS is high enough does Harbinger flub it and you survive.

I'm about to go to bed so there might be a ton of grammer/spelling gibberish in my explanation.

Please watch the Crucible if you have the chance.

[byne]

About the guns. I noticed on my most recent playthrough that when you get knocked unconscious in Vancouver, after Anderson wakes you up, he hands you a Predator.

Kind of interesting that if you choose destroy (represented by Anderson) your Carnifex turns into a Predator.

Maybe as well as symbolizing breaking free of Reaper control, the Predator could also symbolize waking up?

[smokingotter1]

A quick preventive counter-argument to "ok so OTH is correct why are their slides and cutscenes at the end"

Easy, precendent is that the reapers can and have put visions of stuff that happens (or does not happen) in Shepard's mind. The minute he is mind bombed by reaper artifact Object Rho he is given "visions" by the reapers, so it can and does happen. (You don't know how much clicking/pausing/playing I had to do to get these clips because the visions are so short.) Anyway presenting stuff the reapers show you that does not happen:

[masster blaster]

Night otter and I to should go dream of Shepard on trial and the Reapers are the jury Judge and the whole court rooms it'self.

[smokingotter1]

byne wrote...

About the guns. I noticed on my most recent playthrough that when you get knocked unconscious in Vancouver, after Anderson wakes you up, he hands you a Predator.

Kind of interesting that if you choose destroy (represented by Anderson) your Carnifex turns into a Predator.

Maybe as well as symbolizing breaking free of Reaper control, the Predator could also symbolize waking up?

That or according to OTH the minute Shepard starts walking toward's Harbinger's beam (destroy ending) reality comes crashing in on Shepard. That's why he's not limping towards the end of his shooting spree at the tube. The overlay is breaking down and Shepard is breaking free and- oh no! explosion! Shepard is knocked back just like in the beginning of ME3



and than you get breathe scene.

[Bill Casey]

[Arian Dynas]

smokingotter1 wrote...

WandySilva wrote...

Anyone else wonder if there is some deep seeded symbolism in shepards gun in the rbg endings? the camera makes specific note to show shepards actions with his gun in all three endings, dropping it both control and synthesis (his will to fight the reapers is gone, essencially, giving into their will), whereas he grips the gun with both hands and fires in the destroy ending, where, during all scenes after being hit by harbinger, he is only ever seen holding and shooting his gun with his right hand (possibly alluding to a strengthened resolve to destroy the reapers?). If nothing else, it is interesting the amount of emphasis placed is on his gun.

THIS x9000.

Not only does Shepard's physically change in ME3 from carnifex to his standard Predator but if you listen closely to the destroy ending the 2nd-3rd shot Shepard takes you can actually hear the sound of the gun change from carnifex to predator.

The argument I'm working on is that the decision chamber is an overlay of the conduit run. The decision chamber is also an allusion to Arthur Miller's "The Crucible" where the protagonist John Proctor is put on trial and at the end is given the option to repent or to go to the gallows. John Proctor chooses not to repent and is executed.

The decision chamber is Shepard's trial and the jury/judge/executioner is the Reapers. The reapers give Shepard two options to repent his sins, throw his gun down and embrace the reapers.

The third option "destroy" involves Shepard refusing to confess even though he is partly synthetic, the reapers imply heavily that the destroy option will kill Shepard.

Since the decision chamber is an overlay of the conduit run what is "happening" in the decision chamber is happening in real life. When Shepard chooses destroy he heads to the right in the same direction that Harbinger's beam was coming from. Like John Proctor John Shepard (or Jane) is being sent to his execution. Only if you EMS is high enough does Harbinger flub it and you survive.

I'm about to go to bed so there might be a ton of grammer/spelling gibberish in my explanation.

Please watch the Crucible if you have the chance.

I would argue with the comparisons you have drawn to The Crucible.

Yes, there are similarities, but not paticularly compelling ones, nor is the book referenced in the notes we recieved from Casey and Mac (What is? The Ending Of the First Matrix and A Brave New World) I would argue what you are seeing is in fact, applicability, as opposed to reference or allegory.

I've read The Crucible, and to be honest, found it terminally boring. (Proctor is however, a badass. "More weight" gotta love that man.)

[Arian Dynas]

MORE THAN AN HOUR WITH NO POSTS?! THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!

[prettz]

WandySilva wrote...

Anyone else wonder if there is some deep seeded symbolism in shepards gun in the rbg endings? the camera makes specific note to show shepards actions with his gun in all three endings, dropping it both control and synthesis (his will to fight the reapers is gone, essencially, giving into their will), whereas he grips the gun with both hands and fires in the destroy ending, where, during all scenes after being hit by harbinger, he is only ever seen holding and shooting his gun with his right hand (possibly alluding to a strengthened resolve to destroy the reapers?). If nothing else, it is interesting the amount of emphasis placed is on his gun.

you don't say.  you sure about this whole gun thing.
.
.
.

[Starbuck8]

Arian Dynas wrote...

MORE THAN AN HOUR WITH NO POSTS?! THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!

Quite right.

[Rosewind]

Arian Dynas wrote...

MORE THAN AN HOUR WITH NO POSTS?! THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!

Don't worry I am here now.

[UltimateTobi]

Good morning everybody!

[Rosewind]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Good morning everybody!

Good afternoon.

[Leonia]

Lovely analysis, Otter, I had always expected the Crucible's name to be more than just something that "sounds cool". Remember how we all expected there to be a trial at the start of ME3? Either that idea got scrapped or.. moved to the end.

As for things happening that resemble other things happening.. there's quite a few, namely TIM's suicide being nearly identical to Saren's and something else with the EC, that Normandy evac sequence looks nearly identical to the Normandy pick-up at the start of the game (minus the farewells with the squad-mates). The Reject Ending seems to imply strongly that Liara's capsule is on Eden Prime, which is where the story began all that time ago in ME1.

What other "I've seen this scene before" moments can we think of?

Modifié par leonia42, 20 juillet 2012 - 07:13 .

[UltimateTobi]

WandySilva wrote...

or i dont have time to go through ~4000 pages

Just don't mind the "sarcastic" answers. They're not meant seriously.
But Prettz replied to you, and you then definitely have a look at his videos on YouTube, if you're interested in speculating about the ending. He has videos about the gun and Major Coats.

Also I suggest you have a look at ACAVYOS' video about Indoctrination. For starters that is.

If you can't find the videos, tell me, I'll link them.

[UltimateTobi]

leonia42 wrote...

[...] namely TIM's suicide being nearly identical to Saren's [...] What other "I've seen this scene before" moments can we think of?

And that there's no blood at all. No Illusive Man's, nor Anderson's (if he gets shot).

As otter said once, Synthesis looks remarkably like Overlord DLC.

Kneeling before the Catalyst looks like kneeling before Object Rho.

(Just try to get the ball rolling here.)

Edit: A post I made on CleverNoobNetwork: http://www.clevernoo...ndpost__p__7259

Y'all agree? :happy:

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 20 juillet 2012 - 07:36 .

[RavenEyry]

Minor thing about the guns I didn't see come up in this recent discussion: TIMs predator uses the carnifex's sound effect. It reminds me of fightclub "You can't shoot me because I'm holding the gun".

Also, I only recall seeing Shep drop the gun in synthesis before. Has the shot of Shep dropping it in control been added in EC?

[RavenEyry]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Oh yeah. Arian. I was a little disappointed I didn't get a wall of text full of quotes relating to dreams/nightmares/things can't be real. Why Arian? Why!!?!?! 

If you're still here, the link in my sig is to a list of dreamlike things.

[UltimateTobi]

RavenEyry wrote...

Has the shot of Shep dropping it in control been added in EC?

No, the "dropping the gun" in Control was there pre-EC.

[RavenEyry]

UltimateTobi wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Has the shot of Shep dropping it in control been added in EC?

No, the "dropping the gun" in Control was there pre-EC.

Ah right, I'm just blind. Still notable that they added the soldiers losing in con/syn but winning in des. Really mirrors the gun thing.

[UltimateTobi]

RavenEyry wrote...

Still notable that they added the soldiers losing in con/syn but winning in des. Really mirrors the gun thing.

Yeah. Also, Destroy is the most "victorious", scene- and music-wise. Control and Synthesis have sinister themes and musics.

Reject is just a big fail, and was never planned. So I don't think it counts, though the "So be it!" could be a little hint.

[RavenEyry]

UltimateTobi wrote...
Reject is just a big fail, and was never planned. So I don't think it counts, though the "So be it!" could be a little hint.

The voice change, as well as giving you a big clue to Mr. Sparkle's true identity, also shows how angry he is that you wouldn't make a choice. He's supposedly been doing this cycle for millions of years, but now he's bigging up synthesis and getting upset if you let the cycle continue.

My interpretation is Harby gets very angry that you wont play his little game.