55528 réponses à ce sujet

[UltimateTobi]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris still had a po at me, mind

He has his opinion. He doesn't agree with us, but neither does he agree with shepdog.

[MaximizedAction]

UltimateTobi wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris still had a po at me, mind

He has his opinion. He doesn't agree with us, but neither does he agree with shepdog.

He's just too much of a free spirit!

[paxxton]

IT thread has frozen.

[Dwailing]

OK, everyone interested in seeing a wall of text from ME of all people, check he previous page.

[Ageless Face]

I haven't followed the IT for a while, so forgive me for asking.

Is destroy still the choice that breaks the indoctrination? Or is it now refuse? Or both?

[Dwailing]

HagarIshay wrote...

I haven't followed the IT for a while, so forgive me for asking.

Is destroy still the choice that breaks the indoctrination? Or is it now refuse? Or both?

We all pretty much agree that Destroy breaks the indoctrination, but whether Rejection does as well is a... controversial topic.  In my opinion, it breaks the indoctrination, but not the hallucination.  Destroy is the only one that does both, though since it's a Catalyst choice, I'm not sure if it breaks the indoctrination as fully as Rejection.  See the last page for my thoughts on the endings.

[MaximizedAction]

Dwailing wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

I haven't followed the IT for a while, so forgive me for asking.

Is destroy still the choice that breaks the indoctrination? Or is it now refuse? Or both?

We all pretty much agree that Destroy breaks the indoctrination, but whether Rejection does as well is a... controversial topic.  In my opinion, it breaks the indoctrination, but not the hallucination.  Destroy is the only one that does both, though since it's a Catalyst choice, I'm not sure if it breaks the indoctrination as fully as Rejection.  See the last page for my thoughts on the endings.

I agree with everything you wrote.

[CoolioThane]

I didn't mean it as having a go at Sub, I just love that even when siding with us he still doesn't if you get me xD

[Quackjack]

HagarIshay wrote...

I haven't followed the IT for a while, so forgive me for asking.

Is destroy still the choice that breaks the indoctrination? Or is it now refuse? Or both?

Destroy, refuse is where Sheps mind breaks appearently

[Ageless Face]

Dwailing wrote...
We all pretty much agree that Destroy breaks the indoctrination, but whether Rejection does as well is a... controversial topic.  In my opinion, it breaks the indoctrination, but not the hallucination.  Destroy is the only one that does both, though since it's a Catalyst choice, I'm not sure if it breaks the indoctrination as fully as Rejection.  See the last page for my thoughts on the endings.

So, Shepard is in some kind of coma in refuse?

[comrade gando]

[quote]TSA_383 wrote...

[quote]comrade gando wrote...

I think I'm going to need clarifications for the clarifications, because these endings still make no sense whatsoever and are anticlimactic as all hell. It's literally the most anticlimactic ending I've ever seen to any video game, movie, book, comic, anything. That's why I'm still here after 4 months *sigh*.

it's like, shoot this tube to win... really bioware?
[/quote]

Well then it's a good thing we know that Leviathan will be altering the choice sequence at least a bit


I hope so, problem is, the maximum allowable size for an xbox live DLC is 2 gigs (or was it 1.9 gigs?), and they have to include whatever mission it is that gets you leviathan. How can they possibly solve the myriad of problems with the ending right now AND include leviathan in just a 2 gig download?

come to think of it, extended cut did NOT seem like 2 gigs of content. It was more like 500 megs it felt like, where did the rest of the content go?? what comprised 2 gigs in the extended cut in other words?

Modifié par comrade gando, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:02 .

[Dwailing]

HagarIshay wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
We all pretty much agree that Destroy breaks the indoctrination, but whether Rejection does as well is a... controversial topic.  In my opinion, it breaks the indoctrination, but not the hallucination.  Destroy is the only one that does both, though since it's a Catalyst choice, I'm not sure if it breaks the indoctrination as fully as Rejection.  See the last page for my thoughts on the endings.

So, Shepard is in some kind of coma in refuse?

Not really.  Like I said, see my post on the last page.  He's "awake" but he's hallucinating.  And it will take some serious work to break him out of the hallucination.  But that's what friends are for, right?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

HagarIshay wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
We all pretty much agree that Destroy breaks the indoctrination, but whether Rejection does as well is a... controversial topic.  In my opinion, it breaks the indoctrination, but not the hallucination.  Destroy is the only one that does both, though since it's a Catalyst choice, I'm not sure if it breaks the indoctrination as fully as Rejection.  See the last page for my thoughts on the endings.

So, Shepard is in some kind of coma in refuse?

That is one interpretation, but as said it is beeing discussed.

It is not really easy to answer, but Starbrats reaction indicates it was not part of his plan for Shepard not to take an action.

On the other hand it is then strange he dosent react in that way with Destroy, but as Arian has brought up that might simply be because Shepard is not a lost cause in Destroy. So what if Shepard breaks out, the Reapers can try again later.

But with reject Shepard is broken and thus of no use to the Reapers, hence the angry reaction.

At least that is the part i support.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:05 .

[Leonia]

It would be a nice twist to see the squad rescuing Shepard for once after everything he/she has done for each of them but that runs the risk of removing control from the player which many gamers will have a freak out about.

[Dwailing]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

I haven't followed the IT for a while, so forgive me for asking.

Is destroy still the choice that breaks the indoctrination? Or is it now refuse? Or both?

We all pretty much agree that Destroy breaks the indoctrination, but whether Rejection does as well is a... controversial topic.  In my opinion, it breaks the indoctrination, but not the hallucination.  Destroy is the only one that does both, though since it's a Catalyst choice, I'm not sure if it breaks the indoctrination as fully as Rejection.  See the last page for my thoughts on the endings.

I agree with everything you wrote.

Aw, thanks!  I feel all warm and fuzzy inside now!  To be completely serious, I'm very happy that you like it.  I put some serious work into that.  It's nice to be recognized.

[Ageless Face]

All right, Thanks for the answers, everyone.

[RavenEyry]

HagarIshay wrote...

I haven't followed the IT for a while, so forgive me for asking.

Is destroy still the choice that breaks the indoctrination? Or is it now refuse? Or both?

Here's the best interpretation of refuse I've seen:

Arian Dynas wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

The voice change, as well as giving you a big clue to Mr. Sparkle's true
identity, also shows how angry he is that you wouldn't make a choice. He's
supposedly been doing this cycle for millions of years, but now he's bigging up
synthesis and getting upset if you let the cycle continue.

My interpretation is Harby gets very angry that you wont play his little game.

Not even that.
He's angry that he ruined the target.
Destroy is him going "Oh, well fine then. Be that way, have your little
tantrum. I WILL have you, soon enough. I can be patient."
Refuse? Refuse means he's broken Shepard.
Shepard by nature is a man of action. Every option you are given, Paragon or
Renegade? You still are taking an action. Only the neutral options let you opt
out, they never turn out well, and they removed them in ME3. Paragon and
Renegade are both still heroes, their methods and motivations vary, but they do
share the same goals, Paragon is not good, merely charming and peaceable.
Likewise Renegade is not evil, merely violent and direct.
Shepard always has a goal. Always. For three games it was "Destroy the
Reapers and damn the consequences, this war WILL have casualties."
And now we have Shepard going "I don't want to be their killer, so I am
going to let everyone die just so I don't have to do something I perceive as
immoral." That's not Shepard. It might not necessarily be wrong, but it's
not Shepard. Even if Destroy was the only option, Shepard would STILL take an
option.
Bill Casey's sig puts it pretty well. Shepard is not a hero or a messiah. He's
a soldier.
Harbinger WANTS Shepard. He wants Shepard exactly as he is. He isn't looking
for "Not-Shepard" choosing Refuse, Shepard has chosen not to commit
one way or another, to opt out. Refuse means he has lost his determination, his
necessary drive that was an integral part of him. He lost the part of himself
that Harbinger wanted. He's useless to them now. What's more, he's a
frustration. Somehow, in the final moment, not only did he deny Harbinger his
prize, he also denied him further methods of acquiring it.
It would be like just before crossing the finish line, watching someone not
only run off with your trophy, but also break it so you couldn't posess it.

Modifié par RavenEyry, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:08 .

[RavenEyry]

Anyway, I don't know why we're still here, we've been objectively and factually proven wrong. The guy didn't give evidence but he used capital letters and personally insulted me several times so he must be right.

[TSA_383]

comrade gando wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

I think I'm going to need clarifications for the clarifications, because these endings still make no sense whatsoever and are anticlimactic as all hell. It's literally the most anticlimactic ending I've ever seen to any video game, movie, book, comic, anything. That's why I'm still here after 4 months *sigh*.

it's like, shoot this tube to win... really bioware?

Well then it's a good thing we know that Leviathan will be altering the choice sequence at least a bit

I hope so, problem is, the maximum allowable size for an xbox live DLC is 2 gigs (or was it 1.9 gigs?), and they have to include whatever mission it is that gets you leviathan. How can they possibly solve the myriad of problems with the ending right now AND include leviathan in just a 2 gig download?

come to think of it, extended cut did NOT seem like 2 gigs of content. It was more like 500 megs it felt like, where did the rest of the content go?? what comprised 2 gigs in the extended cut in other words?

The pre-rendered cinematics were 1.3GB

Then, because the EC was un-planned (ie, they'd not left bridges and "Shared" dialogue like they have with Leviathan) they had to repackage the entire scene for all the bits that were getting alterations (Conversations down in engineering required the entire engineering deck package, then the entire conduit run, the choice sequence, the normandy memorial stuff, all the VA for all those various scenes etc.)

Thankfully, since there's bridging stuff in there for Leviathan (some of which was added in the EC) they don't have to re-do any whole scenes, so the entire file-size of Leviathan can be dedicated to gameplay content.

Besides, a company the size of EA can surely persuade microsoft to increase their DLC size limit for as big a seller as the Mass Effect series - Microsoft get a cut of every sale remember

leonia42 wrote...

Why have an EMS system at all when it changes so little and when the devs want us to see more.

Rumor has it that Bioware Points sales are >$75 million since release.

That's a pretty good reason to incentivise multiplayer [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

[RavenEyry]

Although ems itself is useless, I like the war assets because it's like having a second codex.

[zigamortis]

TSA_383 wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

I think I'm going to need clarifications for the clarifications, because these endings still make no sense whatsoever and are anticlimactic as all hell. It's literally the most anticlimactic ending I've ever seen to any video game, movie, book, comic, anything. That's why I'm still here after 4 months *sigh*.

it's like, shoot this tube to win... really bioware?

Well then it's a good thing we know that Leviathan will be altering the choice sequence at least a bit

Ace7 wrote...

 anyway's........I bid you all a good
(insert part of day in your region) and hopefully this will resolve
itself before people end up getting banned or the thread gets locked.
Just in case my early and first post has been lost in the mayhem i am
posting a snippet of what I was asking earlier....
"There
is one particular part near the end that has always bugged me. When
shepard collapses he takes the magic elevator to the catalysts pad, when
he reaches the top, he gets on his knees and the starchild asks him to
"wake up" even though he apparently is already awake. I know it's only a
small detail but I can't help thinking there is more to this piece. The
recent confirmation of "symbolism" makes me think this even more. What
do you guys think or has this been discussed already?"

He arrives bowing to the catalyst, perhaps treating it with "superstitious awe" if you will
It's also the same pose adopted when seeing Object Rho for the reaper flashback etc.

Wait when did they say that leviathan will change the endings a bit? Can you show me a link or quote?

[Dwailing]

zigamortis wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

I think I'm going to need clarifications for the clarifications, because these endings still make no sense whatsoever and are anticlimactic as all hell. It's literally the most anticlimactic ending I've ever seen to any video game, movie, book, comic, anything. That's why I'm still here after 4 months *sigh*.

it's like, shoot this tube to win... really bioware?

Well then it's a good thing we know that Leviathan will be altering the choice sequence at least a bit

Ace7 wrote...

 anyway's........I bid you all a good
(insert part of day in your region) and hopefully this will resolve
itself before people end up getting banned or the thread gets locked.
Just in case my early and first post has been lost in the mayhem i am
posting a snippet of what I was asking earlier....
"There
is one particular part near the end that has always bugged me. When
shepard collapses he takes the magic elevator to the catalysts pad, when
he reaches the top, he gets on his knees and the starchild asks him to
"wake up" even though he apparently is already awake. I know it's only a
small detail but I can't help thinking there is more to this piece. The
recent confirmation of "symbolism" makes me think this even more. What
do you guys think or has this been discussed already?"

He arrives bowing to the catalyst, perhaps treating it with "superstitious awe" if you will
It's also the same pose adopted when seeing Object Rho for the reaper flashback etc.

Wait when did they say that leviathan will change the endings a bit? Can you show me a link or quote?

They haven't actually SAID anything, but in the script, there are parts that can ONLY be said by Shepard during the Star-Brat sequence.

[RavenEyry]

zigamortis wrote...

Wait when did they say that leviathan will change the endings a bit? Can you show me a link or quote?

They haven't said anything but the framework included in EC has dialogue with the catalyst about leviathan.

[TSA_383]

RavenEyry wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

Wait when did they say that leviathan will change the endings a bit? Can you show me a link or quote?

They haven't said anything but the framework included in EC has dialogue with the catalyst about leviathan.

This.
Unfortunately due to the way the scripts work we only have the lines that exist in scenes that already exist within the game. This appears to be onboard the normandy and during the choice sequence.

[Dwailing]

RavenEyry wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

I haven't followed the IT for a while, so forgive me for asking.

Is destroy still the choice that breaks the indoctrination? Or is it now refuse? Or both?

Here's the best interpretation of refuse I've seen:

Arian Dynas wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

The voice change, as well as giving you a big clue to Mr. Sparkle's true
identity, also shows how angry he is that you wouldn't make a choice. He's
supposedly been doing this cycle for millions of years, but now he's bigging up
synthesis and getting upset if you let the cycle continue.

My interpretation is Harby gets very angry that you wont play his little game.

Not even that.
He's angry that he ruined the target.
Destroy is him going "Oh, well fine then. Be that way, have your little
tantrum. I WILL have you, soon enough. I can be patient."
Refuse? Refuse means he's broken Shepard.
Shepard by nature is a man of action. Every option you are given, Paragon or
Renegade? You still are taking an action. Only the neutral options let you opt
out, they never turn out well, and they removed them in ME3. Paragon and
Renegade are both still heroes, their methods and motivations vary, but they do
share the same goals, Paragon is not good, merely charming and peaceable.
Likewise Renegade is not evil, merely violent and direct.
Shepard always has a goal. Always. For three games it was "Destroy the
Reapers and damn the consequences, this war WILL have casualties."
And now we have Shepard going "I don't want to be their killer, so I am
going to let everyone die just so I don't have to do something I perceive as
immoral." That's not Shepard. It might not necessarily be wrong, but it's
not Shepard. Even if Destroy was the only option, Shepard would STILL take an
option.
Bill Casey's sig puts it pretty well. Shepard is not a hero or a messiah. He's
a soldier.
Harbinger WANTS Shepard. He wants Shepard exactly as he is. He isn't looking
for "Not-Shepard" choosing Refuse, Shepard has chosen not to commit
one way or another, to opt out. Refuse means he has lost his determination, his
necessary drive that was an integral part of him. He lost the part of himself
that Harbinger wanted. He's useless to them now. What's more, he's a
frustration. Somehow, in the final moment, not only did he deny Harbinger his
prize, he also denied him further methods of acquiring it.
It would be like just before crossing the finish line, watching someone not
only run off with your trophy, but also break it so you couldn't posess it.

 
But Shepard IS taking action.  Shepard hasn't just given up in Rejection.  He's saying, "I'm not just going to blindly accept what I see, I'm going to find my own path, because that's what I've done from the beginning.  I've made sacrifices, and I'll make more if I have to.  But I will NOT just give in to what you want."