55528 réponses à ce sujet

[comrade gando]

How can they significantly alter the ending in a satisfying conclusion where you choices actually matter and not use space magic. that's something so big only an official xpac can actually make that work if you ask me.

[RavenEyry]

http://social.biowar...05/polls/37141/
There's a poll to move this thread now. I suggest everyone vote potatoes to make the results as inconclusive as everything bioware says.

[TSA_383]

RavenEyry wrote...

http://social.biowar...05/polls/37141/
There's a poll to move this thread now. I suggest everyone vote potatoes to make the results as inconclusive as everything bioware says.

That's pretty damn inconclusive.

[Dwailing]

RavenEyry wrote...

http://social.biowar...05/polls/37141/
There's a poll to move this thread now. I suggest everyone vote potatoes to make the results as inconclusive as everything bioware says.

I just voted potatoes.  Am I a horrible person?

[paxxton]

RavenEyry wrote...

http://social.biowar...05/polls/37141/
There's a poll to move this thread now. I suggest everyone vote potatoes to make the results as inconclusive as everything bioware says.

[MaximizedAction]

Dwailing wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

http://social.biowar...05/polls/37141/
There's a poll to move this thread now. I suggest everyone vote potatoes to make the results as inconclusive as everything bioware says.

I just voted potatoes.  Am I a horrible person?

You and me both.

[byne]

Dwailing wrote...

But Shepard IS taking action.  Shepard hasn't just given up in Rejection.  He's saying, "I'm not just going to blindly accept what I see, I'm going to find my own path, because that's what I've done from the beginning.  I've made sacrifices, and I'll make more if I have to.  But I will NOT just give in to what you want."

No. Shepard has given up in the refuse. She is presented with three options, however horrible they may be, to end the Reaper threat, and chooses not to do it.

She knows  the fleet she has gathered is not strong enough to defeat the Reapers conventionally. They were just a distraction to get the Crucible into position.

The fleets went to Earth and attacked the Reapers head on to clear the way for the Crucible, and would therefor have taken far heavier losses than if they were actually there solely to fight the Reapers.

Maybe if they had just left the Crucible behind and used tactics similar to what the asari used in the early stages of the Fall of Thessia, they'd have had a chance, but they charged in head first, meaning they lost a hell of a lot of ships.

Shepard can make all the pretty speeches about how refusal is her being a maverick and playing by her own rules, but that doesnt change the fact that when presented with the key to winning the war, she turned away and said no.

"And if I die, I'll die knowing I did everything I could to stop you. Except for shooting that tube over there. That would have stopped you permanently. So yknow, I did everything I could to stop you, except for actually stopping you when I had the chance."

[UltimateTobi]

I stood honest and voted Yes.

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:39 .

[Dwailing]

UltimateTobi wrote...

I stood honest and voted Yes.

But this ISN'T a fan creation.  A fan creation would be a fanfiction written about what happens afterwards.  This is an interpretation of the events in the endings.  Would an interpretation of a surreal book that's clearly not meant to be taken literally be classed as a fan creation?  No.  And neither does an interpretation of the clearly surreal, definitely not meant to be taken completely literally ending of ME3.

[paxxton]

UltimateTobi wrote...

I stood honest and voted Yes.

What?

[masster blaster]

I say no that IT should be moved to the fan thing, and has every right to stay here. And why do people want this. It's because they know we have prof to back IT up, and they know that IT is not dead, so they want to move IT to the Fan forum because that's the only way IT could die.

[smokingotter1]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
We all pretty much agree that Destroy breaks the indoctrination, but whether Rejection does as well is a... controversial topic.  In my opinion, it breaks the indoctrination, but not the hallucination.  Destroy is the only one that does both, though since it's a Catalyst choice, I'm not sure if it breaks the indoctrination as fully as Rejection.  See the last page for my thoughts on the endings.

So, Shepard is in some kind of coma in refuse?

That is one interpretation, but as said it is beeing discussed.

It is not really easy to answer, but Starbrats reaction indicates it was not part of his plan for Shepard not to take an action.

On the other hand it is then strange he dosent react in that way with Destroy, but as Arian has brought up that might simply be because Shepard is not a lost cause in Destroy. So what if Shepard breaks out, the Reapers can try again later.

But with reject Shepard is broken and thus of no use to the Reapers, hence the angry reaction.

At least that is the part i support.

Overlay theorist here, time to explain refuse (warning warning warning long text):

The catayst and indoctrination has begun to affect Shepards vision and has presented an overlay hallucination of what is happening in real life.

Now remember when Shepard is running towards the conduit initially Harbinger easily picks off all of Shepard fellow soldiers. Right before Harbinger says "serve us" Harbinger pretty much has Shepard right were he wants him. As Harbinger's red laser approaches Shepard a Hallucination begins.

Basically the decision chamber is an attemp to compromise Shepard's character and thus open him for indoctrination. Control and synthesis doesn't kill Shepard, but it does destroy his essence, who he is is no more. The reapers offer destroy as an option because if the reapers still can't convince you to give up the fight they will kill you. That's the reason why with most EMS setting Shepard dies in destroy. Only with a large EMS does Shepard survive.

Shepard is shooting at a tube because tubes and wires are the essence of reaper tech. You see them on husks, basically all reaper abominations, whever you're on a mission and you see weird wires and tubes= reaper tech. The glass tube is symbolic of the glass tubes used to feed genetic material into the human reaper in ME2.

Shepard really is not shooting a tube. Remember the decision chamber is an overlay of reality. The tube is in reality Harbinger's red laser which should kill Shepard on most EMS settings (wonder if something interrupts Harbinger?).

Anyway refuse is Shepard not even trying to get to the conduit. He's not taken the options presented by Harbinger, but he's still trapped in Harbinger's overlay reality. If Shepard won't try to make it to the conduit Harbinger has no need anymore to continue the illusion, he breaks character "so be it" and he can rest assured that Shepard will stay in place. No one will reach the conduit and the reapers win.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:45 .

[TSA_383]

Just put this up in a thread regarding the EC:

TSA_383 wrote...

The EC, as far as I see it, was likely damage control.
You can tell the planned-in-advance DLCs (like Leviathan) because they have to leave cues in the game files for certain scenes to avoid having to re-package those scenes on release (they had to do this with the EC which is part of the reason for the massive file size, the rest being pre-rendered movies.

I think we'll get a bit more context for our endings one way or another, we know, for example, that the Leviathan DLC adds more conversation to the Choice sequence, and we know that it involves a rogue reaper from the original species that was "ascended" into reaper form (known as Leviathan).
We also know that the DLC deals with a group of indoctrinated workers on an Asteroid mining colony, and explores indoctrination a little more in-depth.

One way or another, I'm pretty sure this next DLC will give us more to work from in figuring out these endings

[UltimateTobi]

That was a joke. [/EDI]

I can't believe that you believed I'd vote Yes...

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:45 .

[Cyberfrog81]

byne wrote...

No. Shepard has given up in the refuse. She is presented with three options, however horrible they may be, to end the Reaper threat, and chooses not to do it.

Then you prefer to negotiate with the Reapers rather than fight them.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Dunno if this has been answered already but...

I read a few pages ago you guys were interested in housing all evidence into one easy to reference page that IT supporters could add to. If anyone is interested I would really like to contribute to the group by starting a google doc page to organize all gathered evidence. Let me know what you think.

[UltimateTobi]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Dunno if this has been answered already but...

I read a few pages ago you guys were interested in housing all evidence into one easy to reference page that IT supporters could add to. If anyone is interested I would really like to contribute to the group by starting a google doc page to organize all gathered evidence. Let me know what you think.

If you'd do that, I'd like to contribute, in any way.

[Rifneno]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

http://social.biowar...05/polls/37141/
There's a poll to move this thread now. I suggest everyone vote potatoes to make the results as inconclusive as everything bioware says.

I just voted potatoes.  Am I a horrible person?

You and me both.

Sounds about right.  Answer nonsense with nonsense.

[byne]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

byne wrote...

No. Shepard has given up in the refuse. She is presented with three options, however horrible they may be, to end the Reaper threat, and chooses not to do it.

Then you prefer to negotiate with the Reapers rather than fight them.

Destroy isnt really negotiating. You could call synthesis and control negotiating, but not destroy. I dont know of any negotiations that ended with one side all dead.

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

But Shepard IS taking action.  Shepard hasn't just given up in Rejection.  He's saying, "I'm not just going to blindly accept what I see, I'm going to find my own path, because that's what I've done from the beginning.  I've made sacrifices, and I'll make more if I have to.  But I will NOT just give in to what you want."

No. Shepard has given up in the refuse. She is presented with three options, however horrible they may be, to end the Reaper threat, and chooses not to do it.

She knows  the fleet she has gathered is not strong enough to defeat the Reapers conventionally. They were just a distraction to get the Crucible into position.

The fleets went to Earth and attacked the Reapers head on to clear the way for the Crucible, and would therefor have taken far heavier losses than if they were actually there solely to fight the Reapers.

Maybe if they had just left the Crucible behind and used tactics similar to what the asari used in the early stages of the Fall of Thessia, they'd have had a chance, but they charged in head first, meaning they lost a hell of a lot of ships.

Shepard can make all the pretty speeches about how refusal is her being a maverick and playing by her own rules, but that doesnt change the fact that when presented with the key to winning the war, she turned away and said no.

"And if I die, I'll die knowing I did everything I could to stop you. Except for shooting that tube over there. That would have stopped you permanently. So yknow, I did everything I could to stop you, except for actually stopping you when I had the chance."

To accept one of the choices, even Destroy, is to admit that we can't win this on our own without the help of some kind of God-like being.  I refuse to accept that.  One of the key themes of the series is the belief that everyone has the right to choose their own fate.  Remember Legion's dialogue about the choice the Reapers gave them?  They chose not to accept the Reapers "gift" because to do so would reduce the value of the end.  It's the path you take to reach the end that's most important, not the end itself.  And what the Star-Brat offers you is a shortcut that would require sacrificing the right to self-determination that is inherent in every lifeform, organic or synthetic.

[RavenEyry]

TSA_383 wrote...

Just put this up in a thread regarding the EC:

TSA_383 wrote...

The EC, as far as I see it, was likely damage control.
You can tell the planned-in-advance DLCs (like Leviathan) because they have to leave cues in the game files for certain scenes to avoid having to re-package those scenes on release (they had to do this with the EC which is part of the reason for the massive file size, the rest being pre-rendered movies.

I think we'll get a bit more context for our endings one way or another, we know, for example, that the Leviathan DLC adds more conversation to the Choice sequence, and we know that it involves a rogue reaper from the original species that was "ascended" into reaper form (known as Leviathan).
We also know that the DLC deals with a group of indoctrinated workers on an Asteroid mining colony, and explores indoctrination a little more in-depth.

One way or another, I'm pretty sure this next DLC will give us more to work from in figuring out these endings

If the 'big plans' are to do an IT expansion after adding more hints in each DLC as some of us theorized, then EC was just to calm down the rage a bit and try to boost the amount of people who'd actually buy the DLC. It makes sense it wouldn't outright call us right because that would ruin their plans, but they did make sure to include more hints without removing most others.

[Dwailing]

UltimateTobi wrote...

That was a joke. [/EDI]

I can't believe that you believed I'd vote Yes...

Sorry, you should have made some indication that you were kidding.  For future reference, this is the joke smiley: 

[MaximizedAction]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

But Shepard IS taking action.  Shepard hasn't just given up in Rejection.  He's saying, "I'm not just going to blindly accept what I see, I'm going to find my own path, because that's what I've done from the beginning.  I've made sacrifices, and I'll make more if I have to.  But I will NOT just give in to what you want."

No. Shepard has given up in the refuse. She is presented with three options, however horrible they may be, to end the Reaper threat, and chooses not to do it.

She knows  the fleet she has gathered is not strong enough to defeat the Reapers conventionally. They were just a distraction to get the Crucible into position.

The fleets went to Earth and attacked the Reapers head on to clear the way for the Crucible, and would therefor have taken far heavier losses than if they were actually there solely to fight the Reapers.

Maybe if they had just left the Crucible behind and used tactics similar to what the asari used in the early stages of the Fall of Thessia, they'd have had a chance, but they charged in head first, meaning they lost a hell of a lot of ships.

Shepard can make all the pretty speeches about how refusal is her being a maverick and playing by her own rules, but that doesnt change the fact that when presented with the key to winning the war, she turned away and said no.

"And if I die, I'll die knowing I did everything I could to stop you. Except for shooting that tube over there. That would have stopped you permanently. So yknow, I did everything I could to stop you, except for actually stopping you when I had the chance."

From a purely logical point of view, the choices are as trustworthy as the Catalyst itself, after all if at least parts of it are hallucinations then what is real and what not?

Practically I'd agree that the choices must bear some truth to them in order for indoc. to work (the to-be-indoc. has to give in voluntarily).

But nonetheless, Refuse is a completely creative choice, i.e. Shepard comes up with it on his own, it is not something that is offered by the Catalyst. But that particular choice remains mysterious, as it's outcome is equally...untypical.

[CoolioThane]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Dunno if this has been answered already but...

I read a few pages ago you guys were interested in housing all evidence into one easy to reference page that IT supporters could add to. If anyone is interested I would really like to contribute to the group by starting a google doc page to organize all gathered evidence. Let me know what you think.

I'd gladly contribute! Whatever anyone needs me to write I will do so! 

[UltimateTobi]

Dwailing wrote...

Sorry, you should have made some indication that you were kidding.  For future reference, this is the joke smiley: 

But I really voted No, most voted Potatoes as far as I noticed.