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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#50601
TSA_383

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Guys, I just noticed this Chris Priestly quote from a couple of days ago:

After I get to the office I read and respond to all the emails that came
though since I left work the day before. Emails happen throughout the
day along with IMs, drop by meetings, etc

I usually have meetings during the day that take up time. I always have a
chat window open with Jessica (she works in our Los Angeles studio and I
am in Edmonton) so we can talk about things.

I read through the BioWare Social Network threads, answering PMs,
working with moderators, replying in threads, enforcing the rules, etc

Jessica and I are currently planning our convention plans, so we send emails to vendors and partners while we get our plans set.

If the game is ready, I play through upcoming content (I am playing through the next SP DLC for example)


And I drink a lot of coffee.


EEEEEEE :o

#50602
Quackjack

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UltimateTobi wrote...

I stood honest and voted Yes.


Nice sig bro

#50603
MaximizedAction

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TSA_383 wrote...
EEEEEEE :o


Soon :ph34r:

#50604
Dwailing

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UltimateTobi wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Sorry, you should have made some indication that you were kidding.  For future reference, this is the joke smiley: =]

But I really voted No, most voted Potatoes as far as I noticed. :lol:


Like Rifneno said, answer nonsense with nonsense.

#50605
byne

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Dwailing wrote...

To accept one of the choices, even Destroy, is to admit that we can't win this on our own without the help of some kind of God-like being.  I refuse to accept that.  One of the key themes of the series is the belief that everyone has the right to choose their own fate.  Remember Legion's dialogue about the choice the Reapers gave them?  They chose not to accept the Reapers "gift" because to do so would reduce the value of the end.  It's the path you take to reach the end that's most important, not the end itself.  And what the Star-Brat offers you is a shortcut that would require sacrificing the right to self-determination that is inherent in every lifeform, organic or synthetic.


Using Legion as an example isnt really a good idea, since in ME3 he chose to take the way to full sentience offered by the Reapers and give it to all geth. He didnt choose to find sentience for the geth their own way.

Also, godchild doesnt actually do anything, so you're not exactly being helped by him. All he does is explain the possible choices.

Everyone in the galaxy, Shepard included, had already accepted that they cant win the war without the Crucible. She knows refusing to use the Crucible means losing the war.

Even if simply building tons of dreadnoughts with Thanix cannons was enough to win the war, they cant do that now, because they spent all their time and resources building the Crucible.

#50606
UltimateTobi

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Quackjack wrote...

Nice sig bro

Thanks. ^_^

#50607
shepdog77

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POTATOES

#50608
RavenEyry

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MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...
EEEEEEE :o


Soon :ph34r:

Posted Image

#50609
smokingotter1

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byne wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

byne wrote...

No. Shepard has given up in the refuse. She is presented with three options, however horrible they may be, to end the Reaper threat, and chooses not to do it.

Then you prefer to negotiate with the Reapers rather than fight them.



Destroy isnt really negotiating. You could call synthesis and control negotiating, but not destroy. I dont know of any negotiations that ended with one side all dead.


One thing the extended cut did change was to increase emphasis on Shepard's "negotiating position." I'm no fancy big city lawyer but I'm pretty sure at this point Harbinger and the reapers are holding all the cards. I think they will be the ones dictating terms to Shepard: submit to indoctrination or die.

Posted Image

#50610
paxxton

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Dwailing wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

That was a joke. [/EDI]

I can't believe that you believed I'd vote Yes... :crying:


Sorry, you should have made some indication that you were kidding.  For future reference, this is the joke smiley: =]

No, this is the joke smiley. Posted Image At least it's too.

Modifié par paxxton, 20 juillet 2012 - 03:59 .


#50611
Dwailing

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byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

To accept one of the choices, even Destroy, is to admit that we can't win this on our own without the help of some kind of God-like being.  I refuse to accept that.  One of the key themes of the series is the belief that everyone has the right to choose their own fate.  Remember Legion's dialogue about the choice the Reapers gave them?  They chose not to accept the Reapers "gift" because to do so would reduce the value of the end.  It's the path you take to reach the end that's most important, not the end itself.  And what the Star-Brat offers you is a shortcut that would require sacrificing the right to self-determination that is inherent in every lifeform, organic or synthetic.


Using Legion as an example isnt really a good idea, since in ME3 he chose to take the way to full sentience offered by the Reapers and give it to all geth. He didnt choose to find sentience for the geth their own way.

Also, godchild doesnt actually do anything, so you're not exactly being helped by him. All he does is explain the possible choices.

Everyone in the galaxy, Shepard included, had already accepted that they cant win the war without the Crucible. She knows refusing to use the Crucible means losing the war.

Even if simply building tons of dreadnoughts with Thanix cannons was enough to win the war, they cant do that now, because they spent all their time and resources building the Crucible.


I know that about Legion, and it's still a weird moment, in some ways.  However, it could be argued that, without those upgrades, the Geth would have been destoyed.  If he hadn't done it, he would be dooming his race to extiction.  Wait a minute...

Also, I should point out that God-Child IS doing something.  Have you chosen Rejection ever?  Well, if you tell him to go get stuffed, all the choices shut down.  Basically, without him, you wouldn't be able to win.  So, your survival (Apparently.) depends entirely on his being willing to help you.  Weird, right?

#50612
Either.Ardrey

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UltimateTobi wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

2000 pages for this thread
*snip*

I'm...
I'm...
I'm... not in the list... :crying:

Don't worry about it. I'm not on the list Either (lol. pun intended). And I missed it by almost 24 hours because of work and KotOR 1.;)

#50613
Cyberfrog81

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byne wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

byne wrote...

No. Shepard has given up in the refuse. She is presented with three options, however horrible they may be, to end the Reaper threat, and chooses not to do it.

Then you prefer to negotiate with the Reapers rather than fight them.



Destroy isnt really negotiating. You could call synthesis and control negotiating, but not destroy. I dont know of any negotiations that ended with one side all dead.

When rejecting the offers on the table, my Shepard sure as heck doesn't trust that Destroy really gets rid of the Reapers forever. More importantly, Destroy kills synthetics. So that's the negotiation - we disappear IF you kill the geth and every other synthetic.

Reject really should be better for IT. In that ending, you don't go for one of the crazy ways to kill yourself. You don't submit, you fight.

#50614
UltimateTobi

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Either.Ardrey wrote...

Don't worry about it. I'm not on the list Either (lol. pun intended). And I missed it by almost 24 hours because of work and KotOR 1.;)

Old cheese. I am on the list now. ^.^
PM lex0r to fix it. He got the permission by Arian.

#50615
paxxton

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@Dwailing: I read your thoughts on UNIT. Makes quite sense that both the Control conduit and the Synthesis beam use nanides to complete the indoctrination. In Control on Shepard and in Synthesis on the whole Galaxy.

Modifié par paxxton, 20 juillet 2012 - 04:02 .


#50616
Dwailing

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I'm actually starting to think that any one of the choices could be considered giving up because it requires you accepting that you can't win without the help of Star-Brat. I mean, I still think that Destroy breaks the indoctrination, but...

#50617
Dwailing

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paxxton wrote...

@Dwailing: I read your thoughts on UNIT. Makes quite sense that both the Control conduit and the Synthesis beam use nanides to complete the indoctrination. In Control on Shepard and in Synthesis on the whole Galaxy.


No, it's just Synthesis that infects Shepard with nanites on the way up.  Nanites based indoctrination in Synthesis, traditional indoctrination in Control.

#50618
CoolioThane

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Correct me if I'm wrong...do we ever actually see the beam hit Shep or does the screen "halo" when it's just about to hit him.

It could be argued that in the split second before being hit "the flash before the eyes" the Reapers are attempting a final act of indoctrination. The beam stops if Control/Synthesis are chosen, but if Destroy is chosen, the beam continues and "kills" Shep with low EMS but high means we survive the beam?

Silly theory probs

#50619
paxxton

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Either.Ardrey wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

2000 pages for this thread
*snip*

I'm...
I'm...
I'm... not in the list... :crying:

Don't worry about it. I'm not on the list Either (lol. pun intended). And I missed it by almost 24 hours because of work and KotOR 1.;)

LOL. It's on sale on Steam now.

#50620
RavenEyry

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Destroy being presented by Mr. Sparkle doesn't bother me because the devil can't force your hand, only give temptation.

#50621
UltimateTobi

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CoolioThane wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong...do we ever actually see the beam hit Shep or does the screen "halo" when it's just about to hit him.

It could be argued that in the split second before being hit "the flash before the eyes" the Reapers are attempting a final act of indoctrination. The beam stops if Control/Synthesis are chosen, but if Destroy is chosen, the beam continues and "kills" Shep with low EMS but high means we survive the beam?

Silly theory probs

I don't think that Shep would survive that beam with just EMS. Maybe we can say, that when we have high enough EMS, he's capable enough to jump in the right second to get not hit by the beam.

#50622
RavenEyry

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CoolioThane wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong...do we ever actually see the beam hit Shep or does the screen "halo" when it's just about to hit him.

It could be argued that in the split second before being hit "the flash before the eyes" the Reapers are attempting a final act of indoctrination. The beam stops if Control/Synthesis are chosen, but if Destroy is chosen, the beam continues and "kills" Shep with low EMS but high means we survive the beam?

Silly theory probs

No, it just hits the ground near Shep (no closer than some other hits). Shep then recoils from it and the white flash appears. You don't even see Shep fall over.

#50623
paxxton

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Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@Dwailing: I read your thoughts on UNIT. Makes quite sense that both the Control conduit and the Synthesis beam use nanides to complete the indoctrination. In Control on Shepard and in Synthesis on the whole Galaxy.


No, it's just Synthesis that infects Shepard with nanites on the way up.  Nanites based indoctrination in Synthesis, traditional indoctrination in Control.

That electricity in Control might reactivate the nanides TIM spread earlier to complete the indoctrination.

You should repost it in the UNIT thread.

Modifié par paxxton, 20 juillet 2012 - 04:06 .


#50624
CoolioThane

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UltimateTobi wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong...do we ever actually see the beam hit Shep or does the screen "halo" when it's just about to hit him.

It could be argued that in the split second before being hit "the flash before the eyes" the Reapers are attempting a final act of indoctrination. The beam stops if Control/Synthesis are chosen, but if Destroy is chosen, the beam continues and "kills" Shep with low EMS but high means we survive the beam?

Silly theory probs

I don't think that Shep would survive that beam with just EMS. Maybe we can say, that when we have high enough EMS, he's capable enough to jump in the right second to get not hit by the beam.


Orr maybe with high EMS, as others have theorised, a ship can hit Harby and knock the beam off course?

#50625
masster blaster

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GUYS DON"T FORGET TDKR COMES OUT TODAY XD.