Aller au contenu

Photo

Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


55528 réponses à ce sujet

#50751
MaximizedAction

MaximizedAction
  • Members
  • 3 293 messages

smokingotter1 wrote...

Also I mentioned this before but with synthesis is you listen after Shepard jumps into the synthesis beam even though Shepard is still "falling" into the beam you hear a very audible "thud" that sounds like a person dropping to the ground. When I played it on my crappy speakers I thought it might have been the sound of a gun, but when I put on my headphones (klispsh ftw!) it clearly sounds like a person hitting the ground implying that falling is an illusion.

Video @ 0.22

Use good quality headphones and you'll see what I'm talking about:wizard:

Also the high pitched sounds are very similar to the sounds Object Rho makes when Shepard first meets "it"

Video of Object Rho @7:12 put some good quality headphones on and listen to those high pitched sounds, same sounds you get with the control/synthesis

Bioware: hint hint hint! ;)


I might be wrong but don't we hear that 'hitting the ground' sound in every ending when the Citadel flower fires it's blast?

#50752
zigamortis

zigamortis
  • Members
  • 543 messages

smokingotter1 wrote...

Also I mentioned this before but with synthesis is you listen after Shepard jumps into the synthesis beam even though Shepard is still "falling" into the beam you hear a very audible "thud" that sounds like a person dropping to the ground. When I played it on my crappy speakers I thought it might have been the sound of a gun, but when I put on my headphones (klispsh ftw!) it clearly sounds like a person hitting the ground implying that falling is an illusion.

Video @ 0.22

Use good quality headphones and you'll see what I'm talking about:wizard:

Also the high pitched sounds are very similar to the sounds Object Rho makes when Shepard first meets "it"

Video of Object Rho @7:12 put some good quality headphones on and listen to those high pitched sounds, same sounds you get with the control/synthesis

Bioware: hint hint hint! ;)

The thud still sounds like the gunshots in the soldiers scene. you know the ones who either kill the husks or dont depending on destroy or not.

#50753
Eryri

Eryri
  • Members
  • 1 853 messages
Hi everyone, I'm de-lurking for a bit. I've had a bit of a text wall building up so here goes.
  • TLDR
  • Assuming for a minute that the end choices are real or partially real; Destroy is also a reaper trap because it only destroys pure synthetics like the Geth, but merely stuns hybrids like the Reapers.
  • Any post game IT based DLC would be more acceptable to Anti-IT people if Shepard's choices have some real world consequence.
  • It might be fun for the choice to give him or her a bonus power from the multiplayer list - similarly to Baldur's Gate's dream sequences.
A few pages ago I was interested to read (sorry I can't remember the poster's name, I think it might have been Dwailing) a post theorising that Destroy represents the option to jolt Shepard completely out of the illusion, but Reject just leaves him hanging, and Control and Synthesis leaves him/her indoctrinated, but open to being temporarily jolted out of it with an intervention from the crew or L.I. 

I'm leaning towards TBartelmus's Waking Nightmare theory. I think Shepard did make it to the Citadel, but some or all of the people he/she meets there are illusions. I also think the Catalyst is lying his little blue butt off, and is not the controlling AI of the citadel (so the plot of ME1 isn't invalidated), but a projection of Harbinger.

I'm also really intrigued by the idea that the crucible is a reaper trap, and all three original options are designed by the reapers, hence the Catalyst's annoyance if all three are rejected. Synthesis is their ultimate goal, but they're also happy with Control - as they know they can eventually corrupt the Shepard construct and turn it to their point of view.

I think Destroy, might also be beneficial to the Reapers, albeit as their third choice. We know it damages synthetics and technology, but the Reapers, like Shepard, aren't pure machines. They're hybrids. Maybe the Destroy wave just kills pure synthetics like EDI and the Geth, but only stuns hybrids like the Reapers. We know Shepard can survive Destroy, perhaps the Reapers know they can too.

After a couple of minutes to re-boot they can start reaping again, this time without interference from the Geth. Sovereign regarded the Geth with almost as much contempt as he had for organics, they see themselves as above all other life, both synthetic and organic. They'd be quite happy to see all other synthetic life destroyed.

That's why they leaked the plans for the crucible. They want one of the options that the crucible can provide, but they're infinitely patient and happy to wait while the organics to waste all their resources building it for them. An elegant solution that kills two birds with one stone.

However, Harbinger needs Shepard to make this happen, because of the Prothean's sabotage of the Citadel. They can't completely control the damaged citadel anymore, so they need a handy organic to press the button (or shoot the tube - whatever) for him.
(I realise there's a possible plothole here, as the Reapers can control the citadel well enough to move it and close the ward arms - but bare with me I'm doing this for speculation purposes).

I think something leading from this could address the problems a lot of anti-IT people have with the ending - namely that the final choice is meaningless if it's all a "Bobby-Ewing-in-the-shower" dream sequence. Shepard really is making a choice that affects the real world, just not the one we though we were making. An endgame sequence leading from the above could have its starting conditions set by the choice. All the choices have both positive and negative consequences, but the latter can be mitigated by prior decisions.

Picking Control or Synthesis leads to an indoctrinated Shepard. We as players take control of another important character guarenteed to be alive - like James or Shepard's L.I. to fight our way to him/her and talk her out of it. If the Rachni Queen was saved, or Shepard accepted Liara's Gift - this makes the odds of this much better. Shepard snaps out of indoctrination long enough to defeat the Reapers conventionally, but there's a time limit before he/she relapses.

Picking Destroy leads to an unindoctrinated Shepard, but the Geth and EDI are offline, and the Geth war assets are subtracted from the total needed for conventional victory. However, if the Quarians are still alive, they can use their expertise to reboot the Geth and EDI and get them back into the fight.

Refuse would also lead to a free Shepard, but the EMS needed for success with conventional victory would be higher as the Reapers would not be partially damaged from the Destroy wave.

Lastly I think it would be cool if Shepard's exposure to Reaper tech earned him or her a bonus power from the multiplayer list depending on the choice made - similar to the bonus powers earned in Baldur's Gate depending on actions in the dream sequences. This would really make the dreams mean something in the "real world". Something like a tech power for picking control, a biotic power for synthesis and a combat power for destroy.

Phew, that's better. If you've got this far thanks for putting up with me. What does everyone else think? Apologies if I'm retreading old ground, this thread moves way too fast to read every page.

Modifié par Eryri, 20 juillet 2012 - 08:21 .


#50754
TSA_383

TSA_383
  • Members
  • 2 013 messages
Okay, Shepard's new lines when speaking to the catalyst - this is from the older version of the leak as I'm on my laptop, we don't have the catalyst's own lines in this:

"The Leviathans created you, didn't they?"
"Tell me what you know about the Leviathans."
"But you turned on the Leviathans. You harvested them."
"Who is OLD TONGUE NAME OF HARBINGER?"

Obviously this comes from an early copy which may be amended by anything between now and the leviathan DLC, but I can't see how the "catalyst" can get around these questions without the ending being altered...

#50755
smokingotter1

smokingotter1
  • Members
  • 735 messages

zigamortis wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Also I mentioned this before but with synthesis is you listen after Shepard jumps into the synthesis beam even though Shepard is still "falling" into the beam you hear a very audible "thud" that sounds like a person dropping to the ground. When I played it on my crappy speakers I thought it might have been the sound of a gun, but when I put on my headphones (klispsh ftw!) it clearly sounds like a person hitting the ground implying that falling is an illusion.

Video @ 0.22

Use good quality headphones and you'll see what I'm talking about:wizard:

Also the high pitched sounds are very similar to the sounds Object Rho makes when Shepard first meets "it"

Video of Object Rho @7:12 put some good quality headphones on and listen to those high pitched sounds, same sounds you get with the control/synthesis

Bioware: hint hint hint! ;)

The thud still sounds like the gunshots in the soldiers scene. you know the ones who either kill the husks or dont depending on destroy or not.


If there were multiple thuds I would be inclined to think that too but there is only one thud.

#50756
Either.Ardrey

Either.Ardrey
  • Members
  • 473 messages

Big_Boss9 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

Big_Boss9 wrote...

zigamortis wrote...

@ big_boss
I never said it wasnt out of the question but simply improbable.

Your assertion is based on the false presumption that the majority of people wouldn't buy a prequel. The fact is, the majority of people don't visit forums, don't engage in these discussions, and probably don't even know what IT is. They buy the games, play them, and move on. That's EA's primary audience. Bioware is different, of course, but they're now under EA's umbrella. They have some freedom, naturally, and want to cater to their hardcore audience as well, but an ME prequel would sell well among that larger group.

Perhaps i should clarify. when i say Majority i am refering to the hardcore fans, You know the ones that you want to keep since they buy the most merchandise and purchase all the dlc and buy the other content like books and comics and ios games and etc. The people who spend the most money in the long term are the hardcore fans, the people who keep comming back.


Perhaps individually, but when looking at a hypothetical pie chart of the percentage of profits, I find it hard to believe that a handful of people who buy every piece of ME material would overcome a bigger group who just buy the game. Now we're just speculating without any empirical data, though, and that's not productive. Let me just say this, if Bioware were still operating independantly, I would have a lot more faith where they might be going. Now that they're in EA's sphere, it causes more than a little concern.

This is an old post and my answer may have been presented, but I'm still catching up and wanted to add to this.

The problem I see here is that you (and likely EA/the rest of the industry as well) are looking at the market as a pie chart when it should be a Venn Diagram. A bulk of the market (casual) will buy just about anything as long as it doesn't flat-out suck, has accessible controls, and is tied in any way to the major franchise. The hardcore fans will only buy if it's good and they can see that the developer's still care about them, and if they have done that, they reward them with DLC and merch purchases that the casuals likely won't do. These are not mutually exclusive ideas, and because of this, it would be even better to catch both markets, in this case making a good game with accessible controls that doesn't alienate the major fanbase. If done right, the casual fanbase that doesn't look into things will pull a collective Keanu "Whoa..." and the major fanbase will congratulate Bioware for not screwing up their favorite franchise.

#50757
paxxton

paxxton
  • Members
  • 8 445 messages
TSA, why are you spoiling future DLC for us? Image IPB

Modifié par paxxton, 20 juillet 2012 - 06:33 .


#50758
masster blaster

masster blaster
  • Members
  • 7 278 messages
TSA can you post me the files that have Shepard's helmet in the Citadel return.

#50759
Rifneno

Rifneno
  • Members
  • 12 076 messages

paxxton wrote...

TSA, why are you spoiling future DLC for us? Image IPB


<Shepbinger voice> There is wisdom in harnessing the strength of spoilers.

#50760
paxxton

paxxton
  • Members
  • 8 445 messages
@smokingotter1: I wasn't joking. There's a sound of a train in the Control ending.

#50761
MaximizedAction

MaximizedAction
  • Members
  • 3 293 messages

TSA_383 wrote...

Okay, Shepard's new lines when speaking to the catalyst - this is from the older version of the leak as I'm on my laptop, we don't have the catalyst's own lines in this:

SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER

SPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILER


Good god man, use Spoiler warnings!

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 20 juillet 2012 - 06:34 .


#50762
Guest_Flog61_*

Guest_Flog61_*
  • Guests

RavenEyry wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

Guys, in the 2000th page list, im listed as 'nonpartisan'. What does this mean?

Don't have strong feelings either way

 But i'm fully pro-IT Image IPB

#50763
paxxton

paxxton
  • Members
  • 8 445 messages

Rifneno wrote...

paxxton wrote...

TSA, why are you spoiling future DLC for us? Image IPB


<Shepbinger voice> There is wisdom in harnessing the strength of spoilers.

LOL.

#50764
TSA_383

TSA_383
  • Members
  • 2 013 messages

paxxton wrote...

TSA, why are you spoiling future DLC for us? Image IPB


Image IPB
It's my job as a time-traveller.

masster blaster wrote...

TSA can you post me the files that have Shepard's helmet in the Citadel return.

Not right now I can't, on my laptop.

#50765
smokingotter1

smokingotter1
  • Members
  • 735 messages

paxxton wrote...

@smokingotter1: I wasn't joking. There's a sound of a train in the Control ending.


No I know, I just don't know what to make of it, my mind trying to figure it out.

buffering* ....buffering*

#50766
paxxton

paxxton
  • Members
  • 8 445 messages

smokingotter1 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@smokingotter1: I wasn't joking. There's a sound of a train in the Control ending.


No I know, I just don't know what to make of it, my mind trying to figure it out.

buffering* ....buffering*

A couple of months ago someone posted info on how to interpret it when you dream of trains. It symbolizes losing control.

Modifié par paxxton, 20 juillet 2012 - 06:39 .


#50767
masster blaster

masster blaster
  • Members
  • 7 278 messages

TSA_383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

TSA, why are you spoiling future DLC for us? Image IPB


Image IPB
It's my job as a time-traveller.

masster blaster wrote...

TSA can you post me the files that have Shepard's helmet in the Citadel return.

Not right now I can't, on my laptop.


okay but when ever you can okay.

#50768
smokingotter1

smokingotter1
  • Members
  • 735 messages

paxxton wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@smokingotter1: I wasn't joking. There's a sound of a train in the Control ending.


No I know, I just don't know what to make of it, my mind trying to figure it out.

buffering* ....buffering*

A couple of months ago someone posted info on how to interpret it when you dream of trains. It symbolizes losing control.


This comes to mind.

*Warning link to tv tropes*:wizard:

#50769
TSA_383

TSA_383
  • Members
  • 2 013 messages
Seriously, after the conversation I've just been a total bastard and spoiled, I think the average reaction to synthesis will be something more along the lines of:

Image IPB

#50770
paxxton

paxxton
  • Members
  • 8 445 messages

TSA_383 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

TSA, why are you spoiling future DLC for us? Image IPB


Image IPB
It's my job as a time-traveller.

LOL. Don't mind but I have to watch out not to read it. Image IPB

#50771
smokingotter1

smokingotter1
  • Members
  • 735 messages

TSA_383 wrote...

Seriously, after the conversation I've just been a total bastard and spoiled, I think the average reaction to synthesis will be something more along the lines of:

Image IPB


Reaper: "We got Shepard indoctrinated... now what?"

Harbinger: "Put him in a box."

Reaper: "Done, now what?"

Harbinger: "Shake the box":devil:

#50772
UltimateTobi

UltimateTobi
  • Members
  • 727 messages
I tried to find that smeary smile what the Catalyst does, when you choose destroy.

I tried to caught the best moment, when is mouth and eye is visible.

I got this:

Head's cut out.

%3Ca%20href=Image IPB

Here're the colours reversed (via Paint).

%3Ca%20href=Image IPB

Here I put both next to each other as a comparison.

%3Ca%20href=Image IPB

Don't know if you can make it out. A little maybe.

Edit: Now the links aren't visible anymore, when I edit this post. -.-
Right click the images and click "View Image". Works too.

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 20 juillet 2012 - 06:47 .


#50773
DirtyPhoenix

DirtyPhoenix
  • Members
  • 3 938 messages

TSA_383 wrote...

Obviously this comes from an early copy which may be amended by anything between now and the leviathan DLC, but I can't see how the "catalyst" can get around these questions without the ending being altered...


By simply answering the question and afterwards giving you RGB choices? Or am I missing something important here?

#50774
TSA_383

TSA_383
  • Members
  • 2 013 messages

UltimateTobi wrote...

I tried to find that smeary smile what the Catalyst does, when you choose destroy.

I tried to caught the best moment, when is mouth and eye is visible.

I got this:

Head's cut out.

%3Ca%20href=Image IPB

Here're the colours reversed (via Paint).

%3Ca%20href=Image IPB

Here I put both next to each other as a comparison.

%3Ca%20href=Image IPB

Don't know if you can make it out. A little maybe.

Edit: Now the links aren't visible anymore, when I edit this post. -.-


Okay, now that's officially creepy as hell.

pirate1802 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Obviously
this comes from an early copy which may be amended by anything between
now and the leviathan DLC, but I can't see how the "catalyst" can get
around these questions without the ending being altered...


By simply answering the question and afterwards giving you RGB choices? Or am I missing something important here?

So, by this point in the story:

-We have conversed with Leviathan, the original reaper.
-We know that the "catalyst" turned against them and forced them into synthesis.
-We know more about Harbinger (although what is not clear).

How can that not alter the choice sequence at all?

#50775
paxxton

paxxton
  • Members
  • 8 445 messages

smokingotter1 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@smokingotter1: I wasn't joking. There's a sound of a train in the Control ending.


No I know, I just don't know what to make of it, my mind trying to figure it out.

buffering* ....buffering*

A couple of months ago someone posted info on how to interpret it when you dream of trains. It symbolizes losing control.


This comes to mind.

*Warning link to tv tropes*:wizard:

Death Train? That's a literal interpretation. Image IPBImage IPB