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[FifthBeatle]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Hey all, sorry I haven't had time to work on my part 2 of overlay theory. I'm throwing a kegger so I just wanted to update before I'm swimming in libations


Despite Arian's doubts I'm adding my analysis of "The Crucible" to my overlay theory, the play has changed my hypothesis, altered the variables and created new possibilities you could say. Hopefully I'll have it all put together by Monday.

Not you leave you empty handed here is something I wrote when I was a wee pup a few months ago when I was more of a literalist. It is my humorous take on how the crucible was constructed, enjoy:wizard:

(I borrowed heavily from the dialogue from Family Guy Blue Harvest episode in writing this)

Contractor: Any attack made by the reapers against the
crucible would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data
they've obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the
universe.

Admiral Hackett: That is fantastic. Terrific work. So no problems at all?

Contractor: N... no.

Admiral Hacket: You, uh, you hesitated there. Is there something I should know?

Contractor: Just a minor issue with the controls of the device.

Admiral Hackett: Uh, okay, wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask what's the problem?

Contractor: It was kind of an aesthetic choice by the
architect, some artists a couple of cycles ago made revisions to the
design according to the notes. Thus, the crucible has three ways to be
activated. The operator could try to control the reapers, but right now
there is a strong current going through the levers right now, it would
end up frying anyone who operated the device.

Admiral Hackett: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! That sounds like a pretty big design flaw.

Contractor: Well kinda. Think that’s bad wait till
you hear this. We followed the instructions and installed a mechanism
based on the blue prints that would allow a user to synthesize all
organic and inorganic life.

Admiral Hackett: What does that even mean? That we’ll
all have hard drives and intel chips in our ass? Binary code in our
DNA? How is that even possible? We’ll all become husks?

Contractor: Hey, you paid me to put this thing together from the blueprints, you didn’t ask me to design it.

Admiral Hackett: Well how do you activate that?

Contractor: Well again we had another potential
problem. The operator has to jump into the beam which would uh… melt the
operator and … yeah.

Admiral Hackett: Can’t a person just drop a blood sample or upload some DNA into the machine? Isn’t there a button we can press instead?

Contractor: Yeah, but that would be an insult on the work of the previous cycles and would ruin their artistic integrity.

Admiral Hackett: Forget all this nonsense. We built this thing to kill the reapers, how do we do that?

Contractor: It says in the blue prints to activate it
you have to shoot at this tube while walking towards it. Also the tube
is filled with explosives.

Admiral Hackett: Who in their right mind would design
this machine this way? Can’t we just go back and look over the
blueprints to see if we made an error in putting this thing together;
and for crying out loud install a control panel with buttons! Can you
do that?

Contractor: Yeah, we can get it done tomorrow if price is no object.

Admiral Hackett: Ehhhh...

Contractor: We'll get you some estimates.

Hackett: Get estimates, yeah, yeah.

I am only postulating as to how reading the Crucible has influenced your theory, but going back to what I remember about the play from high school (that was back in the 90's, so if I am misremembering, please ignore this post) the reason it was titled the Crucible is because each character in the play was facing intense societal "heat" and they were being tested to see if they would "melt" or if they would stay true to their beliefs.



This seems quite analogous to what happens at the end of ME3. Shepard is being tested and either he can hold fast to the principles he has had through out the previous 100+ hours of gameplay or he can "melt" under the Reapers' heat and give in to indoctrination. 



The fact that they call it the crucible when they could have called it anything seems to show that this is what they are going for. In my mind, it is a big clue as to what is really happening in those final minutes of the game. 

I really look forward to seeing what you come up with. 

[CoolioThane]

But it seems too much of a coincidence for there to be infrasonic noise where things feel off (hum in Normandy, Coats etc.) Certainly points to Indoc, considering the codex entry and stuff

[UltimateTobi]

CoolioThane wrote...

But it seems too much of a coincidence for there to be infrasonic noise where things feel off (hum in Normandy, Coats etc.) Certainly points to Indoc, considering the codex entry and stuff

True. I mean, it's not audible, why putting in then at all?

[CoolioThane]

WHOAH! I think I may have found something, sorry if it's been mentioned before...

In the Bioware blog: http://blog.bioware....stems-alliance/

They mention N7 forces training at Vila Militar which is in Western Rio...

So what exactly is the Rio map in MP meant to represent? I'm with Banshee in thinking a DLC will take us to this map in some situation, as to me it seems weird to put it in the game with no real purpose? Unless this has already been debunked of course

[Turbo_J]

SubAstris wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Infrasonic sounds are not uncommon in many other video game titles

Do they have a codex entry specifically mentioning infrasonic noise hidden in the mind-warping power of the villain?

No, but they are common for one reason or another. Everyone should be aware of that.

Agreed. Despite infrasonic and ultrasonic noise being mentioned in the codec as primary tools use in the process of indoctrination, players; and only those with the audio diagnostics tools, have to break the 4th wall to get the 'proof'.

Although I appreciate the discovery and the effort that went into the analysis and creation of the video, it is still 'evidence' that is outside the scope of in game thematic evidence. Discuss it all you want, but personally I'll never take it seriously.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 21 juillet 2012 - 12:08 .

[RavenEyry]

Hey, has anyone ever analysed the beacon visions? I doubt theres anything useful in them but we've done a frame by frame look through of the arrival failure vision. Might be worth a gander.

[Gwyphon]

CoolioThane wrote...

WHOAH! I think I may have found something, sorry if it's been mentioned before...

In the Bioware blog: http://blog.bioware....stems-alliance/

They mention N7 forces training at Vila Militar which is in Western Rio...

So what exactly is the Rio map in MP meant to represent? I'm with Banshee in thinking a DLC will take us to this map in some situation, as to me it seems weird to put it in the game with no real purpose? Unless this has already been debunked of course

There was originally plans to have some SP content in Rio I'm fairly sure.

[CoolioThane]

Gwyphon wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

WHOAH! I think I may have found something, sorry if it's been mentioned before...

In the Bioware blog: http://blog.bioware....stems-alliance/

They mention N7 forces training at Vila Militar which is in Western Rio...

So what exactly is the Rio map in MP meant to represent? I'm with Banshee in thinking a DLC will take us to this map in some situation, as to me it seems weird to put it in the game with no real purpose? Unless this has already been debunked of course

There was originally plans to have some SP content in Rio I'm fairly sure.

How likely do you think it would be if IT were to be revealed we'd end up visiting Rio?

[Arian Dynas]

FifthBeatle wrote...


I am only postulating as to how reading the Crucible has influenced your theory, but going back to what I remember about the play from high school (that was back in the 90's, so if I am misremembering, please ignore this post) the reason it was titled the Crucible is because each character in the play was facing intense societal "heat" and they were being tested to see if they would "melt" or if they would stay true to their beliefs.



This seems quite analogous to what happens at the end of ME3. Shepard is being tested and either he can hold fast to the principles he has had through out the previous 100+ hours of gameplay or he can "melt" under the Reapers' heat and give in to indoctrination. 



The fact that they call it the crucible when they could have called it anything seems to show that this is what they are going for. In my mind, it is a big clue as to what is really happening in those final minutes of the game. 

I really look forward to seeing what you come up with. 

I believe there is an apropos quote here: "And let them be assayed as gold is in a furnace and purged by proper judicial examination."

I still say that yes, you can find comparison and things that match, there is nothing new under the sun after all, but I doubt personally that a (to be honest) rather boring play about the Salem witch trials was what was on their minds.

The meaning of the word Crucible is merely what they share, and it's a definition that is not at all uncommon.

[Gwyphon]

CoolioThane wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

WHOAH! I think I may have found something, sorry if it's been mentioned before...

In the Bioware blog: http://blog.bioware....stems-alliance/

They mention N7 forces training at Vila Militar which is in Western Rio...

So what exactly is the Rio map in MP meant to represent? I'm with Banshee in thinking a DLC will take us to this map in some situation, as to me it seems weird to put it in the game with no real purpose? Unless this has already been debunked of course

There was originally plans to have some SP content in Rio I'm fairly sure.

How likely do you think it would be if IT were to be revealed we'd end up visiting Rio?

I think Rio was thrown around as the site Shepard is when the reapers invade but they eventually settled on Vancouver. Don't quote me on that. But I think if we're going to be on Earth anymore, it's going to be London.

[RavenEyry]

'Crucible' can also mean 'test'.

[FifthBeatle]

Arian Dynas wrote...

FifthBeatle wrote...


I am only postulating as to how reading the Crucible has influenced your theory, but going back to what I remember about the play from high school (that was back in the 90's, so if I am misremembering, please ignore this post) the reason it was titled the Crucible is because each character in the play was facing intense societal "heat" and they were being tested to see if they would "melt" or if they would stay true to their beliefs.



This seems quite analogous to what happens at the end of ME3. Shepard is being tested and either he can hold fast to the principles he has had through out the previous 100+ hours of gameplay or he can "melt" under the Reapers' heat and give in to indoctrination. 



The fact that they call it the crucible when they could have called it anything seems to show that this is what they are going for. In my mind, it is a big clue as to what is really happening in those final minutes of the game. 

I really look forward to seeing what you come up with. 

I believe there is an apropos quote here: "And let them be assayed as gold is in a furnace and purged by proper judicial examination."

I still say that yes, you can find comparison and things that match, there is nothing new under the sun after all, but I doubt personally that a (to be honest) rather boring play about the Salem witch trials was what was on their minds.

The meaning of the word Crucible is merely what they share, and it's a definition that is not at all uncommon.

Precisely, I'm not suggesting that the ending of the game is supposed to mirror the play, simply that they could have called it the device anything, but specifically chose Crucible which has a much deeper metaphorical meaning. Though, there are several instances in the series that show that the writers do have a deep appreciation of literature, so it would not surprise me if this were a reference to the play (which I agree is totally boring). If, as the IT suggests, the final moments are the Reapers' attempt at breaking Shepard's will and indoctrinate him they couldn't have chosen a better word. 

Anyway, it was Otter who first suggested it, so he deserves the credit. But, it seems too coincidental to be overlooked completely. 

[FifthBeatle]

RavenEyry wrote...

'Crucible' can also mean 'test'.

Yes, exactly. This is a test. A test of Shepard's will. It fits perfectly with IT. 

[Turbo_J]

RavenEyry wrote...

Hey, has anyone ever analysed the beacon visions? I doubt theres anything useful in them but we've done a frame by frame look through of the arrival failure vision. Might be worth a gander.

I did some. BW either retconned the Protheans or the Collectors, and thus Javik, are one of the lesser Prothean races. This could fit in with how the Reapers like to identify weak minds or groups within a species and create a splinter group. It does not necessarily mean the splinter group is going to be of the same race as a primary target. It seems the Rachni and Zha'Till were also used as a kind of splinter to create diversionary conflicts at the same time. Just like we see the Geth and a second attempt at using the Rachni in the same manner during the current cycle.

We don't even know if identifying a primary target is something that happens in every cycle. You'd think vigil or vendetta would have mentions something along those lines. Vigil actually had a few insights that were contrary to how things pan out in ME3. He claimed that at no time was there any offer of surrender. The Reapers simply had one goal; to wipe out all advanced organic life.

Anyway, we know only on Liara's word that the 'true' Protheans were the dominant species and uplifted others to join the empire, but we have no way of knowing if Javik's kind really were that domenant race; save for his word and a few videos (DLC) - which could easily be fake.

I still suspect Javik is a plant, just like the VI's and the Crucible plans, but that's a personal inference based on casual analysis. It just bothers me that 'we' as in Shep, Liara, the Alliance, Thessians and others, went from having little information about the previous cycle(s) suddenly come upon 'treasure troves' of data in the 11th hour. It seems all to convenient.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 21 juillet 2012 - 12:38 .

[MaximizedAction]

Turbo_J wrote...

I still suspect Javik is a plant, just like the VI's and the Crucible plans, that that's a personal inference based on casual analysis. It just bothers me that 'we' as in Shep, Liara, the Alliance, Thessians and others, went from having little information about the previous cycle(s) suddenly come upon 'treasure troves' of data in the 11th hour. It seems all to convenient.

I don't know if this qualifies as evidence. After all, ME3 is he last part of the trilogy and if BW's goal was to answer as many questions and offer as much insight into the lore as possible, then that is the best oportunity for them. This is not taking the 'literalist's' stand point, it merely seems like a convention for the final part of the story.

You know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[TSA_383]

SubAstris wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Infrasonic sounds are not uncommon in many other video game titles

Do they have a codex entry specifically mentioning infrasonic noise hidden in the mind-warping power of the villain?

No, but they are common for one reason or another. Everyone should be away of that.

Yes, they appear in the vast majority of video game titles, usually due to sound people not filtering certain sounds properly, or applying filters and then afterwards downsampling the sounds to save on space (which happens with some ME3 sounds).
I happen to believe that the example posted a few pages back is probably not entirely legit, but the simple way to work it out is to pitch-shift the whole thing up 200-300% and see what's there

UltimateTobi wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

But
it seems too much of a coincidence for there to be infrasonic noise
where things feel off (hum in Normandy, Coats etc.) Certainly points to
Indoc, considering the codex entry and stuff

True. I mean, it's
not audible, why putting in then at all?

I get to break out my MS paint thing now to explain why downsampling can cause infrasound in a signal:


If you have a signal above the nyquist frequency given the sample rate of your audio, (high frequency represented in blue, sampling points in red) then you can end up with an erroneous low-frequency noise (green).

The other issue we have is the relatively short window function used - if you don't use an appropriate hanning function or somesuch then narrowband peaks appear much wider and there is more background noise.

For example, last year I did an experiment measuring the sound of turbojets and made a custom filter, so you can see the effect this sort of thing has on peak width:




BUT

Some scenes in ME3 contain levels of barely-audible or outright infrasonic noise that are stable and LOUD. Loud enough that I don't see how these phenomena could have created them.

The biggest candidates for this are:

-The dream scene "whispers"
-The hum that pervades the normandy.

In both cases, I've pitch-shifted these and there is true infrasonic in the signal.

magnetite wrote...

I ran that indoctrination sound through
an audio spectrum analyzer, and it does confirm the presence of
"infrasonic noise". Sounds like buzzing during the conversation with the
Illusive Man, followed by the screen turning kind of red. According to
the codex, infrasonic noise is a subliminal signal that the Reapers use
to indoctrinate people. Anything below +20 db cannot be heard by the
normal human ear. According to this program, the sound goes as low as
-120 db or so.

Audio spectrum analyzer

-120db is quiet.
Like, really really quiet.
Like, roughly a trillion times quieter than the loudest possible signal.
Like, so quiet it's more likely to be noise from the signal processing software than actual sound.

Which sounds are you looking at, what sort of window function etc?
I've got to be a bit skeptical, as we need to check our sources

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

Just did 4 successful platinum extractions in a row. WOO! (don't worry I didn't get anything from the packs).

Well done sir, well done.
How? 

Simon_Says wrote...

I'm looking at the endings again on YouTube.

In
Control, I now only really noticed that it looks like a reaper. There
are 'tentacles' flanking the walkway to the handles, which itself would
correlate with where the reapers' thanix weapon is located.



Basically, it looks like Shepard is embracing death (which happens to be the actual case).

And Destroy. Other than the tubes feeding the protoreaper, there was something else familiar with it.



I remembered what: it looks sorta like a dreadnought cannon.

Shepard must really, really love guns.

The destroy tube surround is actually made of bits of dreadnought cannon (according to the game files) - it may well be another thing pulled from Shepard's memories...

[RavenEyry]

It seems we're running out of ending bits that DON'T look like something we've seen before.

[Turbo_J]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

I still suspect Javik is a plant, just like the VI's and the Crucible plans, but that's a personal inference based on casual analysis. It just bothers me that 'we' as in Shep, Liara, the Alliance, Thessians and others, went from having little information about the previous cycle(s) suddenly come upon 'treasure troves' of data in the 11th hour. It seems all to convenient.

I don't know if this qualifies as evidence. After all, ME3 is he last part of the trilogy and if BW's goal was to answer as many questions and offer as much insight into the lore as possible, then that is the best oportunity for them. This is not taking the 'literalist's' stand point, it merely seems like a convention for the final part of the story.

You know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Did you miss the bold part? It's not evidence nor did I ever present it that way... it's actually nothing more than odd.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 21 juillet 2012 - 12:57 .

[Turbo_J]

RavenEyry wrote...

It seems we're running out of ending bits that DON'T look like something we've seen before.

That's why Hellish and I are making a video that contains thematic and lore links from ME1 to ME3. The ending is not as important as many believe. It's all that came before it that can aid us in understanding it.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Any word on the Leviathan DLC arrival date?

[RavenEyry]

Turbo_J wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

It seems we're running out of ending bits that DON'T look like something we've seen before.

That's why Hellish and I are making a video that contains thematic and lore links from ME1 to ME3. The ending is not as important as many believe. It's all that came before it that can aid us in understanding it.

Oh I agree. When the game came out everyone thought the endings came out of nowhere, but all analysis since has shown the options were foreshadowed, but in such a way that makes that far from being equal and valid options. Destroy has been bigged up since day one while the others have been shown to be wrong.

[SubAstris]

FifthBeatle wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

'Crucible' can also mean 'test'.

Yes, exactly. This is a test. A test of Shepard's will. It fits perfectly with IT. 

As it does a literal interpretation, well not the "test" part, but other definitions

[Cucobr]

Lion Martinez wrote...

Wow, some great theorizing going on in this thread. I'm really enjoying it, it intrigues me. Keep it up

yeah.

because Headcannon Ending >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current ending.


deal with it.


=/

[Silhouett3]

SubAstris wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Infrasonic sounds are not uncommon in many other video game titles

Do they have a codex entry specifically mentioning infrasonic noise hidden in the mind-warping power of the villain?

No, but they are common for one reason or another. Everyone should be away of that.

But in Mass Effect universe, infasonic noise were intentionally identified to be serving a specific function. You should have been aware of that.

Modifié par Silhouett3, 21 juillet 2012 - 01:40 .

[MegumiAzusa]

TSA_383 wrote...

Yes, they appear in the vast majority of video game titles, usually due to sound people not filtering certain sounds properly, or applying filters and then afterwards downsampling the sounds to save on space (which happens with some ME3 sounds).
I happen to believe that the example posted a few pages back is probably not entirely legit, but the simple way to work it out is to pitch-shift the whole thing up 200-300% and see what's there
[...]
BUT

Some scenes in ME3 contain levels of barely-audible or outright infrasonic noise that are stable and LOUD. Loud enough that I don't see how these phenomena could have created them.

The biggest candidates for this are:

-The dream scene "whispers"
-The hum that pervades the normandy.

In both cases, I've pitch-shifted these and there is true infrasonic in the signal.

Again the volume itself has nothing to do with it, I would claim coincidence on these two. For example in the generated sounds for the Scrin in C&C3 the infrasonic portion is louder than anything else, but it still means nothing. The only way you can really be sure is if you use the steps you described above and it produces something that makes "sense" and not being random noise.