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[RavenEyry]

byne wrote...
Considering my renegade Shep is a Colonist, she saw way worse happen to children when slavers raided her home planet. After the kind of crap she saw on Mindoir, which, if you'll remember from the Spacer only mission in ME1, was bad enough to mentally scar even a veteran soldier like Zabaleta, the fact that a single kid can affect her so much is a bit odd.

And the butcher of Torfan suddenly gets all melancholy about losing people. Without IT it really seems that Bioware decided Shep was their character and not the players, which is a terrible move in an RPG.

[masster blaster]

I also like that in Control everyone is cheering. Why are they cheering. I can see that in Destroy, but Control NO. If I saw the Reapers flying up in the air I would be not cherring, but running because. Just imagen hundreds of thousands of Reaper lazers comming down from the sky. Now that's something I would expect in Control, if they thought of that.

[byne]

Just had this conversation with Javik. I always find it odd.

Shep: The goal of this ship is to wipe the Reapers from existence.

Javik: But how far are you willing to go? I do not believe you Commander. Lying is a physiological marker. There is doubt behind your words.

Can anyone give a satisfactory explanation as to why there would be any doubt in Shepard's words when she is stating that her goal is to destroy the Reapers?

(I mean a literalist explanation. The reason is clear if you take IT into account)

[byne]

RavenEyry wrote...

byne wrote...
Considering my renegade Shep is a Colonist, she saw way worse happen to children when slavers raided her home planet. After the kind of crap she saw on Mindoir, which, if you'll remember from the Spacer only mission in ME1, was bad enough to mentally scar even a veteran soldier like Zabaleta, the fact that a single kid can affect her so much is a bit odd.

And the butcher of Torfan suddenly gets all melancholy about losing people. Without IT it really seems that Bioware decided Shep was their character and not the players, which is a terrible move in an RPG.

Speaking of butcher of Torfan, my renegade colonist shep is also ruthless.

I like to think of the whole Torfan incident as her showing no mercy to the batarians, since they never showed her any.

I play her as kind of racist against batarians.

[HyperGlass]

RavenEyry wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Hey Raven could I add to your ending oddties by saying that Shep can somehow see a vision of a choice after asking about it as if he/she has already picked that. e.g. Reapers leave when asking about control. It just don't get that. I can guess it would make it easier for the audience to comprehend but come on it's easy for them to understand already.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, I've got the shot of TIM and Anderson choosing listed if that's what you refer too.

No no. I mean after you see the vision of Anderson shooting the off-switch -let's stick with destroy- you pick "I want details" and after his lecture a black & white vision of the consequences; Husks being blow up, Reapers falling over etc.
That any better?

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

Just had this conversation with Javik. I always find it odd.

Shep: The goal of this ship is to wipe the Reapers from existence.

Javik: But how far are you willing to go? I do not believe you Commander. Lying is a physiological marker. There is doubt behind your words.

Can anyone give a satisfactory explanation as to why there would be any doubt in Shepard's words when she is stating that her goal is to destroy the Reapers?

(I mean a literalist explanation. The reason is clear if you take IT into account)

Uh, Shepard could be thinking that TIM might be right about being able to control the Reapers and every single thing s/he says to the contrary is just a front.

[RavenEyry]

HyperGlass wrote...
No no. I mean after you see the vision of Anderson shooting the off-switch -let's stick with destroy- you pick "I want details" and after his lecture a black & white vision of the consequences; Husks being blow up, Reapers falling over etc.
That any better?

Right. I haven't actually played EC, but I can imagine what you mean. I'll add a note to the other visions bit.

[RavenEyry]

byne wrote...

Just had this conversation with Javik. I always find it odd.

Shep: The goal of this ship is to wipe the Reapers from existence.

Javik: But how far are you willing to go? I do not believe you Commander. Lying is a physiological marker. There is doubt behind your words.

The new improved mopey!Shep of ME3 doubts their chances at winning?

[SubAstris]

Turbo_J wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I'm not trying to be, but that's probably more to do with the fact that you think he is a Reaper manifestation.

People can have their interpretations, I agree wholeheartedly, I'm just saying BW's intention wasn't to make it that way.

Stating facts... how exactly do you know this? Did someone from BW  call you up and tell you?

Comic Con 2012 Mass Effect: Past, Present and Future, search on Youtube, last 10 minutes

Sorry for the delay, making food...

Saw it a few days ago. It's not enough to draw a counter conclusion from. At no time did Mike say it was not an Indoctrination attempt. He said it was representative of losses. The funny thing with that is by the third dream, I have a total of 3 losses that matter, and one of them is questionable given 'Shepard's' relationship with them.

You are stating fact that Mikes comments are counter to an Indoctrination perspective when he actually says no such thing.

In my opinion, you are grasping at straws this time... and I don't say that much because I hate the saying.

Edit: Love how you ignored my observations regarding the 'boy' at the beginning of the game, though. Seem common that you focus on menial crap and never on the more pointed observations.

You're right, I shouldn't have said that it doesn't mean IT entirely, just that it fits so perfectly with the face interpretation. As for your other comments, I'll see to them in a bit

[byne]

HyperGlass wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Hey Raven could I add to your ending oddties by saying that Shep can somehow see a vision of a choice after asking about it as if he/she has already picked that. e.g. Reapers leave when asking about control. It just don't get that. I can guess it would make it easier for the audience to comprehend but come on it's easy for them to understand already.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, I've got the shot of TIM and Anderson choosing listed if that's what you refer too.

No no. I mean after you see the vision of Anderson shooting the off-switch -let's stick with destroy- you pick "I want details" and after his lecture a black & white vision of the consequences; Husks being blow up, Reapers falling over etc.
That any better?

Doesnt Shepard conveniently get a completely accurate vision of the future of all the choices when she asks for details on them?

Unless Shepard can literally see into the future, how is that even possible?

Even if its just the godchild showing that vision to her, can he see the future? If so, why didnt he see the Crucible coming?

[byne]

Dwailing wrote...

Uh, Shepard could be thinking that TIM might be right about being able to control the Reapers and every single thing s/he says to the contrary is just a front.

Except you only get that line if you're paragon and take a renegade choice. Paragon has always argued against control up to that point. If you're renegade and just called TIM crazy, that argument would make sense, but you wouldnt get that line.

RavenEyry wrote...

The new improved mopey!Shep of ME3 doubts their chances at winning?

But Shepard is not talking about whether or not she thinks it is possible to destroy the Reapers, she is just stating that doing so is her goal.

[HyperGlass]

byne wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Hey Raven could I add to your ending oddties by saying that Shep can somehow see a vision of a choice after asking about it as if he/she has already picked that. e.g. Reapers leave when asking about control. It just don't get that. I can guess it would make it easier for the audience to comprehend but come on it's easy for them to understand already.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, I've got the shot of TIM and Anderson choosing listed if that's what you refer too.

No no. I mean after you see the vision of Anderson shooting the off-switch -let's stick with destroy- you pick "I want details" and after his lecture a black & white vision of the consequences; Husks being blow up, Reapers falling over etc.
That any better?

Doesnt Shepard conveniently get a completely accurate vision of the future of all the choices when she asks for details on them?

Unless Shepard can literally see into the future, how is that even possible?

Even if its just the godchild showing that vision to her, can he see the future? If so, why didnt he see the Crucible coming?

Yes that is exactly my point.
I can understand the whole Anderson/TIM vision (no Sarren WHY?!) but that was excessive.

[SubAstris]

masster blaster wrote...

I also like that in Control everyone is cheering. Why are they cheering. I can see that in Destroy, but Control NO. If I saw the Reapers flying up in the air I would be not cherring, but running because. Just imagen hundreds of thousands of Reaper lazers comming down from the sky. Now that's something I would expect in Control, if they thought of that.

Yeah, but the lazers would be rendered inoperable by Shepard controlling them. It would be a bit like **** war criminals, instead of being executed, were doing manual labour; their past actions were horrific but they can't hurt anyone anymore

[byne]

HyperGlass wrote...

Yes that is exactly my point.
I can understand the whole Anderson/TIM vision (no Sarren WHY?!) but that was excessive.

I figure having Saren there would make it far too obvious.

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I also like that in Control everyone is cheering. Why are they cheering. I can see that in Destroy, but Control NO. If I saw the Reapers flying up in the air I would be not cherring, but running because. Just imagen hundreds of thousands of Reaper lazers comming down from the sky. Now that's something I would expect in Control, if they thought of that.

Yeah, but the lazers would be rendered inoperable by Shepard controlling them. It would be a bit like **** war criminals, instead of being executed, were doing manual labour; their past actions were horrific but they can't hurt anyone anymore

What masster is saying is that while we know that, the soldiers on the ground dont know that. Seeing the Reapers going into orbit would seem like the beginnings of orbital bombardment, not the machinations of Reaper!Shep

Also, I'm assuming the censored word is National Socialist, aye?

Modifié par byne, 21 juillet 2012 - 10:04 .

[Turbo_J]

byne wrote...

Just had this conversation with Javik. I always find it odd.

Shep: The goal of this ship is to wipe the Reapers from existence.

Javik: But how far are you willing to go? I do not believe you Commander. Lying is a physiological marker. There is doubt behind your words.

Can anyone give a satisfactory explanation as to why there would be any doubt in Shepard's words when she is stating that her goal is to destroy the Reapers?

(I mean a literalist explanation. The reason is clear if you take IT into account)

Even with IT, there is more to it. This backs up my discovery months ago regarding Paragon and Renegade points and their subsequent means being altered in the third game. They are no longer representative of good and badass, but seem to represent 'weak and doubtful'  / 'strong and confident'. This alteration seems semi-consistant throughout the game and has nothing to do with the renegade and paragon 'color' options; which seem to retain their good and badass qualities.

If you are a Renegade, Javik believes you.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 21 juillet 2012 - 10:09 .

[masster blaster]

Subarts I ment they should not be cheering at all. Even if they did not fire I would fire, or fall back and would gather whatever forces are left to be ready when they come back. Also why cheer again. Just because they leave they should celebrate. They are in the middle of war. For all they know the Reapers are gathering for a massive final assult. Think about it.

[HyperGlass]

byne wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

Yes that is exactly my point.
I can understand the whole Anderson/TIM vision (no Sarren WHY?!) but that was excessive.

I figure having Saren there would make it far too obvious.

But everyone figured that out eventully even if someone vividly remembers Saren's intentions(details vary a little). It would have been a nice nod seeing him run towards the beam though.

[Turbo_J]

masster blaster wrote...

Subarts I ment they should not be cheering at all. Even if they did not fire I would fire, or fall back and would gather whatever forces are left to be ready when they come back. Also why cheer again. Just because they leave they should celebrate. They are in the middle of war. For all they know the Reapers are gathering for a massive final assult. Think about it.

Completely agree and very good observation. I also found it strange how they could possibly know what was going on. This happens even more in the CE . People just seem to know everything Shepard knows somehow.

There is only one way to explain this at face value - trust me, it will be handwaved with the 'bad writing' slogan.

[SubAstris]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I also like that in Control everyone is cheering. Why are they cheering. I can see that in Destroy, but Control NO. If I saw the Reapers flying up in the air I would be not cherring, but running because. Just imagen hundreds of thousands of Reaper lazers comming down from the sky. Now that's something I would expect in Control, if they thought of that.

Yeah, but the lazers would be rendered inoperable by Shepard controlling them. It would be a bit like **** war criminals, instead of being executed, were doing manual labour; their past actions were horrific but they can't hurt anyone anymore

What masster is saying is that while we know that, the soldiers on the ground dont know that. Seeing the Reapers going into orbit would seem like the beginnings of orbital bombardment, not the machinations of Reaper!Shep

Also, I'm assuming the censored word is National Socialist, aye?

I'm not quite sure when it became an offensive word...

[HyperGlass]

masster blaster wrote...

Subarts I ment they should not be cheering at all. Even if they did not fire I would fire, or fall back and would gather whatever forces are left to be ready when they come back. Also why cheer again. Just because they leave they should celebrate. They are in the middle of war. For all they know the Reapers are gathering for a massive final assult. Think about it.

Do they cheer in Synthesis? If so then that is messed up. Sure the Reapers leave, but they're part synthetic!

[byne]

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I also like that in Control everyone is cheering. Why are they cheering. I can see that in Destroy, but Control NO. If I saw the Reapers flying up in the air I would be not cherring, but running because. Just imagen hundreds of thousands of Reaper lazers comming down from the sky. Now that's something I would expect in Control, if they thought of that.

Yeah, but the lazers would be rendered inoperable by Shepard controlling them. It would be a bit like **** war criminals, instead of being executed, were doing manual labour; their past actions were horrific but they can't hurt anyone anymore

What masster is saying is that while we know that, the soldiers on the ground dont know that. Seeing the Reapers going into orbit would seem like the beginnings of orbital bombardment, not the machinations of Reaper!Shep

Also, I'm assuming the censored word is National Socialist, aye?

I'm not quite sure when it became an offensive word...

Yeah, I dont know when either. Lots of sites filter it. WoW filters it too.

Its like that old saying goes: Those who forget history never have anything bad happen to them.

No wait, thats not right...

[byne]

HyperGlass wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Subarts I ment they should not be cheering at all. Even if they did not fire I would fire, or fall back and would gather whatever forces are left to be ready when they come back. Also why cheer again. Just because they leave they should celebrate. They are in the middle of war. For all they know the Reapers are gathering for a massive final assult. Think about it.

Do they cheer in Synthesis? If so then that is messed up. Sure the Reapers leave, but they're part synthetic!

I dont know about post-EC, but pre-EC they didnt cheer during Space Magic.

They had the 'What the hell is going on' sort of reaction that you'd expect.

[SubAstris]

masster blaster wrote...

Subarts I ment they should not be cheering at all. Even if they did not fire I would fire, or fall back and would gather whatever forces are left to be ready when they come back. Also why cheer again. Just because they leave they should celebrate. They are in the middle of war. For all they know the Reapers are gathering for a massive final assult. Think about it.

Presumably all the forces know about the Crucible and its potential power to remove the Reaper threat and so when they see the Reapers retreating and not firing back that's the sign that the Crucible has worked and the Reapers are finished.

But anyway, what's the point of the scene? It is to show the situation on the ground and show how the Reapers are going. Now technically they might not know but it's meant to be an optimistic scene following Shepard's choices. Having them just shoot the Reapers wouldn't lead to quite the same effect IMO

[HyperGlass]

byne wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Subarts I ment they should not be cheering at all. Even if they did not fire I would fire, or fall back and would gather whatever forces are left to be ready when they come back. Also why cheer again. Just because they leave they should celebrate. They are in the middle of war. For all they know the Reapers are gathering for a massive final assult. Think about it.

Do they cheer in Synthesis? If so then that is messed up. Sure the Reapers leave, but they're part synthetic!

I dont know about post-EC, but pre-EC they didnt cheer during Space Magic.

They had the 'What the hell is going on' sort of reaction that you'd expect.

For EC Synthesis they didn't cheer and also the London soilders don't seem to be aware of the transformation. You expect that reaction though for control; them just looking up. It's not likely they know what went on between they 2 choices as both have the Reapers leaving.