55528 réponses à ce sujet

[smokingotter1]

byne wrote...

So, this conversation on Thessia is pretty intriguing.

Shep: Listen to yourself! The Reapers have it right?! You're indoctrinated! You're doing exactly what the Reapers want!

TIM: I could say the same of you. Wasting time on a war that cant be won.

Oh TIM, you tease.

Dr. Kenson from ME2 Arrival DLC on her project to delay the reapers by blowing up a Mass Relay in the Viper System

Dr. Kenson: "The Project is almost complete. I thought I'd feel a sense of accomplishment. I can't help but think we're doing something terrible."

Decision Chamber in a nutshell.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:01 .

[Turbo_J]

So... um, if a Collector ship can detect the Normandy when the stealth systems are activated, how hard do you think it would be for a full fledged Reaper to detect the ship? you know, like when it's 20-120 yards away... never mind the few hundred kilometers away it was from the Collector ship in ME2.

Which didn't miss when it fired.

Just putting that out there.

[Simon_Says]

The standard answer is Reaper IFF. But again the collector oculi weren't fooled.

[MaximizedAction]

Simon_Says wrote...
...
Whatever the case, in that crucible chamber, Shepard (and the player) is not observing un-manipulated reality. Some entity, either the Catalyst, the entity presenting the Catalyst, or Shepard's broken mind is directing what Shepard sees to some unknown end. And it has already been demonstrated in the series that Indoctrination involves exactly that.

From this, the rest of Indoctrination Theory follows.

Very approvable analysis and conclusion!

I find it especially interesting how once I take into account all of the observations and direct conclusions from them, no matter how, I always arrive to some form of manipulation of Shepard's mind. And as you write, indoctrination (by taking the in-game definitions) follows almost immediately from all of this.

This actually is the literal interpretation of the game; there is no clutching at straws here, it is there, only a few steps of thinking away: Shepard's mind is becoming messed up in ME3.

What the implications are to the ending and it really happening or not, that is the interpretation that is up to the player.

[MaximizedAction]

Turbo_J wrote...

So... um, if a Collector ship can detect the Normandy when the stealth systems are activated, how hard do you think it would be for a full fledged Reaper to detect the ship? you know, like when it's 20-120 yards away... never mind the few hundred kilometers away it was from the Collector ship in ME2.

Which didn't miss when it fired.

Just putting that out there.

Lol, you mean at the beginning or the end? (See what Bioware did there?)

[Bill Casey]

Simon_Says wrote...
...
Whatever the case, in that crucible chamber, Shepard (and the player) is not observing un-manipulated reality. Some entity, either the Catalyst, the entity presenting the Catalyst, or Shepard's broken mind is directing what Shepard sees to some unknown end. And it has already been demonstrated in the series that Indoctrination involves exactly that.

From this, the rest of Indoctrination Theory follows.

No, Shepard is literally running through the forest and then he's on his spaceship...
How'd he get there?

IT. DOESN'T. MAKE. SENSE.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:10 .

[byne]

So, I just got an email in the game about Wrex's death. Its one of those ANN news articles.

Citadel - A violent confrontation erupted on the Citadel today when Urdnot Wrex, a known krogan mercenary, accosted an Alliance soldier over an unpaid gambling debt.

I seriously want to hurt whoever wrote that article. Sure, my Shepard killed Wrex, but Wrex was a good friend and had a legitimate problem with my actions. Whoever just wrote him off as a crazy merc going after an unpaid gambling debt needs to be hurt.

Badly.

[Simon_Says]

MaximizedAction wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...
Harbinger says 'Serve me' when he shoots Shep. Also the catalyst uses a reaper voice in refuse. They also failed to remove any of the 'bugs and oversights' in the ending sequence, so IT is no weaker than before, although many who dislike the theory seem to think if they say it's dead enough it'll come true.

According to Chris Priestly (the Q&A on that german forum this week) that sound was not a spoken line, i.e. was not supposed to have a meaning.

Except it certainly does. It's not in any language we can decipher. It may not even be in any language per se. But there's communication.

Harbinger sees Shepard.
Harbinger recognizes Shepard.
Harbinger expresses something when recognizing Shepard.
Harbinger sweeps the beam, deliberately, towards Shepard.
Harbinger somehow manages not to kill Shepard.

*rewind a few months*

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine"

Modifié par Simon_Says, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:15 .

[munnellyladt]

byne wrote...

So, I just got an email in the game about Wrex's death. Its one of those ANN news articles.

Citadel - A violent confrontation erupted on the Citadel today when Urdnot Wrex, a known krogan mercenary, accosted an Alliance soldier over an unpaid gambling debt.

I seriously want to hurt whoever wrote that article. Sure, my Shepard killed Wrex, but Wrex was a good friend and had a legitimate problem with my actions. Whoever just wrote him off as a crazy merc going after an unpaid gambling debt needs to be hurt.

Badly.

Wait you didn't cure the genophage for wrex?!?

Talk about stabbing a friend in the back.

[byne]

munnellyladt wrote...

byne wrote...

So, I just got an email in the game about Wrex's death. Its one of those ANN news articles.

Citadel - A violent confrontation erupted on the Citadel today when Urdnot Wrex, a known krogan mercenary, accosted an Alliance soldier over an unpaid gambling debt.

I seriously want to hurt whoever wrote that article. Sure, my Shepard killed Wrex, but Wrex was a good friend and had a legitimate problem with my actions. Whoever just wrote him off as a crazy merc going after an unpaid gambling debt needs to be hurt.

Badly.

Wait you didn't cure the genophage for wrex?!?

Talk about stabbing a friend in the back.

Yeah, this is my renegade playthrough. My renegade character is a bloody moron. I plan to pick Synthesis on her.

[CoolioThane]

I've also found Renegade very difficult to play through considering how feckin' dumb the renegade Shep is ¬_¬

Night all 

Modifié par CoolioThane, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:20 .

[byne]

CoolioThane wrote...

I've also found Renegade very difficult to play through considering how feckin' dumb the renegade Shep is ¬_¬

When people tell me Renegade Shep is just pragmatic and not stupid, I laugh at them.

Clearly they need to justify their need to be a jerk, but pretending to be a pragmatist is not a good excuse.

Not curing the genophage is not pragmatic. A pragmatic Shepard would understand that they dont actually know how long the war is going to last, and that they're going to need a lot of krogan footsoldiers. A pragmatic Shepard would understand that if the krogan became a problem again, they could most likely find a way make them sterile again.

No, Renegade Shep is impulsive and hotheaded, not pragmatic.

[munnellyladt]

Simon_Says wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...
Harbinger says 'Serve me' when he shoots Shep. Also the catalyst uses a reaper voice in refuse. They also failed to remove any of the 'bugs and oversights' in the ending sequence, so IT is no weaker than before, although many who dislike the theory seem to think if they say it's dead enough it'll come true.

According to Chris Priestly (the Q&A on that german forum this week) that sound was not a spoken line, i.e. was not supposed to have a meaning.

Except it certainly does. It's not in any language we can decipher. It may not even be in any language per se. But there's communication.

Harbinger sees Shepard.
Harbinger recognizes Shepard.
Harbinger expresses something when recognizing Shepard.
Harbinger sweeps the beam, deliberately, towards Shepard.
Harbinger somehow manages not to kill Shepard.

*rewind a few months*

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine"

I toataly agree with what you say,another thing that struck me as odd is when your running down to the beam,harbinger simply discintegrates all the soilders running around you.

While shepard is right next to the beam,not moving,on the ground and harbinger does not instantly destory him but instead tries to mame shepard,or it could be that he screwed up when he was aiming with his controler. 

Modifié par munnellyladt, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:26 .

[legaldinho]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...
...
Whatever the case, in that crucible chamber, Shepard (and the player) is not observing un-manipulated reality. Some entity, either the Catalyst, the entity presenting the Catalyst, or Shepard's broken mind is directing what Shepard sees to some unknown end. And it has already been demonstrated in the series that Indoctrination involves exactly that.

From this, the rest of Indoctrination Theory follows.

Very approvable analysis and conclusion!

I find it especially interesting how once I take into account all of the observations and direct conclusions from them, no matter how, I always arrive to some form of manipulation of Shepard's mind. And as you write, indoctrination (by taking the in-game definitions) follows almost immediately from all of this.

This actually is the literal interpretation of the game; there is no clutching at straws here, it is there, only a few steps of thinking away: Shepard's mind is becoming messed up in ME3.

What the implications are to the ending and it really happening or not, that is the interpretation that is up to the player.

At the Q&A, the question was asked  "why that kid", and the answer was quite telling: the catalyst had to take a non-threatening form, because the holograms and actual reapers would not be trusted. The child represents those that shepard cannot save. Okay, then. How does the catalyst know what form to take? How does it access the image and voice of the child that shepard saw, citadel nowhere in sight? The literal interpretation of the ending must, ipso facto, require some access to shepard's innermost thoughts, a capacity either for him to have visions, or a capacity for the catalyst to have access to his mind.

There is no other explanation, I challenge anyone to come to a literal interpretation of the ending that escapes the conclusion that reaperbieber had access to shepard's mind.

Modifié par legaldinho, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:26 .

[munnellyladt]

byne wrote...

munnellyladt wrote...

byne wrote...

So, I just got an email in the game about Wrex's death. Its one of those ANN news articles.

Citadel - A violent confrontation erupted on the Citadel today when Urdnot Wrex, a known krogan mercenary, accosted an Alliance soldier over an unpaid gambling debt.

I seriously want to hurt whoever wrote that article. Sure, my Shepard killed Wrex, but Wrex was a good friend and had a legitimate problem with my actions. Whoever just wrote him off as a crazy merc going after an unpaid gambling debt needs to be hurt.

Badly.

Wait you didn't cure the genophage for wrex?!?

Talk about stabbing a friend in the back.

Yeah, this is my renegade playthrough. My renegade character is a bloody moron. I plan to pick Synthesis on her.

Well at least she gets whats comming to her.

[Simon_Says]

byne wrote...

When people tell me Renegade Shep is just pragmatic and not stupid, I laugh at them.

Clearly they need to justify their need to be a jerk, but pretending to be a pragmatist is not a good excuse.

Not curing the genophage is not pragmatic. A pragmatic Shepard would understand that they dont actually know how long the war is going to last, and that they're going to need a lot of krogan footsoldiers. A pragmatic Shepard would understand that if the krogan became a problem again, they could most likely find a way make them sterile again.

No, Renegade Shep is impulsive and hotheaded, not pragmatic.

If Wrex or Eve is not alive, the pragmatic thing to do would be to not cure the genophage.

Problem is that not killing Wrex in ME1 is the pragmatic thing to do, and saving Maelon's data (thereby saving Eve) in ME2 is the pragmatic thing to do.

Uuuhhh...

Modifié par Simon_Says, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:24 .

[legaldinho]

byne wrote...

munnellyladt wrote...

byne wrote...

So, I just got an email in the game about Wrex's death. Its one of those ANN news articles.

Citadel - A violent confrontation erupted on the Citadel today when Urdnot Wrex, a known krogan mercenary, accosted an Alliance soldier over an unpaid gambling debt.

I seriously want to hurt whoever wrote that article. Sure, my Shepard killed Wrex, but Wrex was a good friend and had a legitimate problem with my actions. Whoever just wrote him off as a crazy merc going after an unpaid gambling debt needs to be hurt.

Badly.

Wait you didn't cure the genophage for wrex?!?

Talk about stabbing a friend in the back.

Yeah, this is my renegade playthrough. My renegade character is a bloody moron. I plan to pick Synthesis on her.

I think a true renegade would pick control, and headcannon the ending as "I am ur nu overlord bow down to me minions".

[byne]

Simon_Says wrote...

byne wrote...

When people tell me Renegade Shep is just pragmatic and not stupid, I laugh at them.

Clearly they need to justify their need to be a jerk, but pretending to be a pragmatist is not a good excuse.

Not curing the genophage is not pragmatic. A pragmatic Shepard would understand that they dont actually know how long the war is going to last, and that they're going to need a lot of krogan footsoldiers. A pragmatic Shepard would understand that if the krogan became a problem again, they could most likely find a way make them sterile again.

No, Renegade Shep is impulsive and hotheaded, not pragmatic.

If Wrex or Eve is not alive, the pragmatic thing to do would be to not cure the genophage.

Problem is that not killing Wrex in ME1 is the pragmatic thing to do, and saving Maelon's data (thereby saving Eve) in ME2 is the pragmatic thing to do.

Uuuhhh...

Right, you cant be consistently pragmatic and consistently renegade at the same time.

Anyone claiming renegade is the pragmatic path is full of it.

[byne]

legaldinho wrote...

byne wrote...

Yeah, this is my renegade playthrough. My renegade character is a bloody moron. I plan to pick Synthesis on her.

I think a true renegade would pick control, and headcannon the ending as "I am ur nu overlord bow down to me minions".

I agree, but she doesnt deserve to be a god.

[xxclonexx2]

Simon_Says wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...
Harbinger says 'Serve me' when he shoots Shep. Also the catalyst uses a reaper voice in refuse. They also failed to remove any of the 'bugs and oversights' in the ending sequence, so IT is no weaker than before, although many who dislike the theory seem to think if they say it's dead enough it'll come true.

According to Chris Priestly (the Q&A on that german forum this week) that sound was not a spoken line, i.e. was not supposed to have a meaning.

Except it certainly does. It's not in any language we can decipher. It may not even be in any language per se. But there's communication.

Harbinger sees Shepard.
Harbinger recognizes Shepard.
Harbinger expresses something when recognizing Shepard.
Harbinger sweeps the beam, deliberately, towards Shepard.
Harbinger somehow manages not to kill Shepard.

*rewind a few months*

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine"

I believe that he was probably saying something, but the only problem is how they used an old sound from a reaper destroyer in that part. That would be really the only counter to that.

[smokingotter1]

munnellyladt wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...
Harbinger says 'Serve me' when he shoots Shep. Also the catalyst uses a reaper voice in refuse. They also failed to remove any of the 'bugs and oversights' in the ending sequence, so IT is no weaker than before, although many who dislike the theory seem to think if they say it's dead enough it'll come true.

According to Chris Priestly (the Q&A on that german forum this week) that sound was not a spoken line, i.e. was not supposed to have a meaning.

Except it certainly does. It's not in any language we can decipher. It may not even be in any language per se. But there's communication.

Harbinger sees Shepard.
Harbinger recognizes Shepard.
Harbinger expresses something when recognizing Shepard.
Harbinger sweeps the beam, deliberately, towards Shepard.
Harbinger somehow manages not to kill Shepard.

*rewind a few months*

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine"

I toataly agree with what you say,another thing that struck me as odd is when your running down to the beam,harbinger simply discintegrates all the soilders running around you.

While shepard is right next to the beam,not moving,on the ground and harbinger does not instantly destory him but instead tries to mame shepard,or it could be that he screwed up when he was aiming with his controler. 

Hate to admit it but Harbinger is just pure ninja compared to other reapers with their slower red lasers. Harbinger must have worked at Benihana the way he was slicing and dicing everyone. He did a pretty good job of not killing Shepard's squad and Shepard himself despite the power of a reaper laser which is not exactly known for surgical strikes.

Modifié par smokingotter1, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:32 .

[xxclonexx2]

munnellyladt wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...
Harbinger says 'Serve me' when he shoots Shep. Also the catalyst uses a reaper voice in refuse. They also failed to remove any of the 'bugs and oversights' in the ending sequence, so IT is no weaker than before, although many who dislike the theory seem to think if they say it's dead enough it'll come true.

According to Chris Priestly (the Q&A on that german forum this week) that sound was not a spoken line, i.e. was not supposed to have a meaning.

Except it certainly does. It's not in any language we can decipher. It may not even be in any language per se. But there's communication.

Harbinger sees Shepard.
Harbinger recognizes Shepard.
Harbinger expresses something when recognizing Shepard.
Harbinger sweeps the beam, deliberately, towards Shepard.
Harbinger somehow manages not to kill Shepard.

*rewind a few months*

"Struggle if you wish... your mind will be mine"

I toataly agree with what you say,another thing that struck me as odd is when your running down to the beam,harbinger simply discintegrates all the soilders running around you.

While shepard is right next to the beam,not moving,on the ground and harbinger does not instantly destory him but instead tries to mame shepard,or it could be that he screwed up when he was aiming with his controler. 

Another funny thing about that is how there are no lasers being shot when Shep is making his or her goodbyes. What a gent that Harbi.

[FellishBeast]

Bill Casey wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...
...
Whatever the case, in that crucible chamber, Shepard (and the player) is not observing un-manipulated reality. Some entity, either the Catalyst, the entity presenting the Catalyst, or Shepard's broken mind is directing what Shepard sees to some unknown end. And it has already been demonstrated in the series that Indoctrination involves exactly that.

From this, the rest of Indoctrination Theory follows.

No, Shepard is literally running through the forest and then he's on his spaceship...
How'd he get there?

IT. DOESN'T. MAKE. SENSE.

Yeah, I didn't get that. And didn't that kid die? And how were dead squadmates even talking to you?

[MaximizedAction]

xxclonexx2 wrote...

Another funny thing about that is how there are no lasers being shot when Shep is making his or her goodbyes. What a gent that Harbi.

Interestingly, there is some Reaper comm going on during that scene. Listen closely:
www.youtube.com/watch (at 1:30-1:31)

It's also there on low EMS, that is when your squad gets shot down.

EDIT: Even better quality:
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:48 .

[byne]

What the hell? This happened to me again:



I swear, one of these days I'll assault Cronos Station without first dying at the squad selection screen.