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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#51651
Raistlin Majare 1992

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RavenEyry wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

I am pretty sure Rosewind meant for the Doctor Who reference.

Obviously, but to me it would've been as silly as the Enterprise appearing in the fleet and destroyed suspension of disbelief more than synthesis.


As long as they dident outright had the Doctor appear from the Police Box I would simply see it as a nod to another great franchise. I would smile and then get back to business.

#51652
Lyria

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I know! The Doctor plus FemShep as a companion.
So much win.
Now if I could only make my male shep look like David Tennant....

Dr Who ending would've made more sense.

#51653
Zan51

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No, I vote for Captain Jack Harkness and our Cardiff girl, Gwen Cooper! Awesome!! Miracle Day beat the Citadel/Crucible/ Catalyst ending hands down! And they lived.

I grew up in Glasgow beside a blue police box - they were sub-stations where the local beat bobbies phoned their base and got messages from them before the days of radio and mobile phones. Blue light on top would be on when they had to pick up a call. Also I believe members of the public in dire need of the police could also call them from there.

#51654
Rosewind

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

I am pretty sure Rosewind meant for the Doctor Who reference.

Obviously, but to me it would've been as silly as the Enterprise appearing in the fleet and destroyed suspension of disbelief more than synthesis.


As long as they dident outright had the Doctor appear from the Police Box I would simply see it as a nod to another great franchise. I would smile and then get back to business.


Well they had one the ships from Halo in ME2 in the ship grave yard when you enter the omega 4 relay

#51655
Lyria

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You know, Captain Jack would've been awesome as well.
He's be of the best dr who characters.

#51656
Rosewind

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protognosis wrote...

I know! The Doctor plus FemShep as a companion.
So much win.
Now if I could only make my male shep look like David Tennant....

Dr Who ending would've made more sense.


Prefer Matt Smith, David tennet doctor came of to arrogant and pompous.

#51657
Dam0299

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

protognosis wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Over night I thought of something else for the 'dream starts earlier' or 'warped perception' ideas, y'know about London looking like Vancouver crossed with Palavan's moon. The red phone boxes. Yes really. Today there are hardly any of those in London, the ones that are there are preserved because tourists expect to see them, yet not one but several survive the reaper invasion. When I saw them the first time I half expected to see a scots guard and a couple of beefeaters among Anderson's soldiers, thinking Bioware had made the same assumptions as tourists. But last night I thought 'has Shepard ever been to London before?'. Probably not, and they're seeing the phone boxes because they expect to see them in London.



 
Well to be fair, when I saw the red booths I was half expecting a blue police box to suddenly appear, followed by a dashing fellow saying "Hello, I'm the doctor," which would result in the reaper threat being ended by a sonic screwdriver and timey wimey shenanigans. 
Posted Image


Would have been a better ending :lol:

Still The Doctor and Commander Shepard teaming up...the amount of win in that would be unbelievable.


Not exactly them teaming up, but still pretty good. http://cynicalwitch....de-best-picture

#51658
Raistlin Majare 1992

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FreddyCast wrote...

I think we can trust Vendetta, it's the Godbrat we can't trust.
And I completely agree with you on the rest, except for the Reapers surviving part. They need to go. They are an abomination, unworthy of living, having absolutely no justification to keep on existing in any form. Three games is long enough. But that's just me. Plus, they're not the type to retreat or give up.


No the Reapers dont seem liek the types to retreat, but neither do they seem stupid enough to fight a battle they cant win. I am not saying they should survive in any kind of numbers taht makes them a future threat, but enough to keep opputunities like Indoctrination around.

But concerning Vendetta I relaly see no reason to trust him. Off course he still has more credit to him than Godbrat whose trustworthiness is below 0, but Vendetta just knows way, way to much.

Ill try to make it short to not have to post up my entire wall of text on Vendetta again:

Vendetta speaks of how the Reapers ar only a part of the cycle, not the creators of it, but have you ever asked yourself how he knows?

The Reapers are not exactly talktive or understandable when it comes to their motives and the Protheans were even cut of, their Relay newtowrk shut down. Whoever made Vendetta and found out ab out the cycle did so from ressearch only based in the Athena Cluster. Whoever did it had no acess to the Citadel and by extension the Catalyst and I doubt there was alot of opputunities to study the reapers patterns while they were harvesting the cluster...inf act even if you study their patterns how do you reach such a conclusion?

Vendetta also knows what the Catalyst is, but based on the same criteria as above how does he know? It cant ahve been information obtained before the Reapers arrived because then it makes no sense that the information was not in the mars Archive.

In fact it makes no sense that they never told or tried to spread the information of the Catalyst. We know there was a working Prothean Beacon in the Athena Cluster as Javik all the way over in the Exodus Cluster on Eden Prime knew about the Crucible beeing build in the Athena Cluster (Vendetta is based on the Protheans Crucible Project Overseer according to what it says). A simple quick sentence to Javik (since he is supposed to lead the next cycle) saying the Citadel is the Catalyst woudl have helped immnesely...but gameplay reason on that one.

But this is just a little part of the strange things sourrounding Vendetta. Its strangeness ony becomes more apperent when compared to Vigil from ME1 who does a great number out of pointing out that every piece of information concerning the Reapers is theory and not fact...where as Vendetta states everything as fact without anything to back it up.

Tell me if youw ant the entire write up I did, because the way I see it Vendetta is not to be trusted, there is simply to many ifs and hows in it. 

#51659
BleedingUranium

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What if the Crucible is both a mass indoctrination device, and our means of winning?

The Crucible turns out to be a mass indoctrination device, one that, when connected to the Citadel Relay, would spread it's indoctrination-ness throughout the entire galaxy. Not long after waking up, Shepard (& co) learn of this and attempt to stop it. Rather than destroying it, they come up with a better plan: sabotage it. I'm not going to attempt at details, but basically they'd reverse the Crucible's effects, resulting in an anti-indoctrination weapon, thus freeing all the people under the Reaper's control, notably the indoctrinated civilians turned into Cerberus troops, as well as, according to my other theory, the Reapers themselves! My "Reapers are indoctrinated" idea is key here, obviously, otherwise it wouldn't really help us. We know Reaper tech indoctrinates, so it's not much of a stretch to think that they Reapers themselves are too. Whether they did it to themselves (by accident) like TIM and Saren, or by their creators, etc, that doesn't matter. What matters (for this) is that they are.

-How could the Reapers not know about the Crucible? Solved!
-How do we defeat the Reapers without some kind of super weapon type thing? Solved!

Also, I've yet to see another idea adress both of these points Posted Image


It would also reinforce the that the enemy we've been fighting throughout the entire series is actually indoctrination, both on a personal (Shepard) level, and as a galaxy.

-Geth Heretics: Indoctrinated
-Some ME1 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Benezia & Co: Indoctrinated
-Saren: Indoctrinated
-Collectors: Indoctrinated
-Some ME2 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Kenson & Co: Indoctrinated
-Some ME3 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Cerberus: Indoctrinated
-Kai Leng: Indoctrinated
-Illusive Man: Indoctrinated

Posted Image

The vast majority of our time in ME1/2/3 is spent fighting indoctrinated agents, not Reapers, and that doesn't even touch all the times it's talked about and such.

It's just after 01:00 here, so I'm pretty tired and I hope this makes sense Posted Image

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 22 juillet 2012 - 08:15 .


#51660
RavenEyry

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BleedingUranium wrote...
What if the Crucible is both a mass indoctrination device, and our means of winning?

They don't have to be indoctrinated, you could mess with the targeting to brainwash the reapers or something.

#51661
Rosewind

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OMFG I just realised something, You know when you at the base just before the beam run and how everything seems off. Well you remember just after Liara you can hear a doctor talking to a women on the radio about some ones leg.
Well at the start when Shepard and Anderson go to the radio they pull the bridge thingy off someone, well anyone noticed it was on his leg?

#51662
Turbo_J

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

I also did my own counts of the Reapers and the Dreadnoughts and I was being VERY conservative for both of them. I calculated that there was AT LEAST 900 Sovereign-class Reapers throughout the Galaxy (this is not even counting those that were in other clusters that didn't make it into ME3) and 140 Dreadnoughts. Even with unconventional means, we would do better in combat, but we would still fail, for the Reaper's REAL strength is not their firepower, but their NUMBERS.


Well if you believe what Vendetta says the Reapers have concentrated their forces around Earth, but as I pointed out in a massive post a week or so ago Vendetta has more than a few strange circumstances sourrounding it which makes me question how much we can trust it.

What idd like to see actually would be that Earth is simply the turning point in the war. That we defeat the Reapers at Earth with the help of the Crucible and then go on to retake the Council worlds one by one, driving the Reapers out of the Galaxy.

But more than anything I actually want some Reapers to survive. They have harvested the gaalxy for more than a billion years (based on dating of the Leviathan of Dis) and it would be wrong if they were simply completely wiped out in a single cycle. Defeated and forced to retreat, sure, but utterly annihilated, no thanks.


Still not caught up but had to respond to this. You and I both formed a very similar hypothesis on what is potentially 'really happening/still needs to happen' once Shepard wakes up and I've always concluded that there is some truth to comments made by NPCs throughout the game. Liara's comment on the war lasting at least 100 years and Vigil's comment that the war took centuries, as the Reapers are infinitely patient. There is no way this war can end within the scope of one game unless that game takes place over 30-40 years. Even to that end, I can't possibly see a 'total' defeat without using some form of 'space magic'... or 'lots of giant guns' as Garrus would say.

Hell, even if the Reapers did retreat with 30-50% losses and stayed out in dark space, a war of attrition to take back worlds from Reaper ground forces could still take decades. Maybe multiplayer will have a purpose beyond horde mode in the future.

#51663
JasonSic

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This plus this gives me hope.

#51664
Turbo_J

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Rosewind wrote...

OMFG I just realised something, You know when you at the base just before the beam run and how everything seems off. Well you remember just after Liara you can hear a doctor talking to a women on the radio about some ones leg.
Well at the start when Shepard and Anderson go to the radio they pull the bridge thingy off someone, well anyone noticed it was on his leg?


I'd actually say there was more of a link to the person missing their leg 'below the knee' in Huerta than with someone with an injured leg at the beginning of the game. Remember - the person on the radio said he 'lost his leg below the knee'. Just like the poor guy on the Citadel.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 22 juillet 2012 - 08:40 .


#51665
JasonSic

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Rosewind wrote...

OMFG I just realised something, You know when you at the base just before the beam run and how everything seems off. Well you remember just after Liara you can hear a doctor talking to a women on the radio about some ones leg.
Well at the start when Shepard and Anderson go to the radio they pull the bridge thingy off someone, well anyone noticed it was on his leg?

I don't think those two events are related, unless you are suggesting that Shepard is hallucinating by that point.

#51666
Rosewind

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Turbo_J wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

OMFG I just realised something, You know when you at the base just before the beam run and how everything seems off. Well you remember just after Liara you can hear a doctor talking to a women on the radio about some ones leg.
Well at the start when Shepard and Anderson go to the radio they pull the bridge thingy off someone, well anyone noticed it was on his leg?


I'd actually say there was more of a link to the person missing their leg 'below the knee' in Huerta than with someone with an injured leg at the beginning of the game. Remember - the person on the radio said he 'lost his leg below the knee'. Just like the poor gue on the Citadel.


Forgot about him..... lol Still!! Way to burts my bubble thanks :(

#51667
RavenEyry

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You know ME1 has unbalanced level scaling when it becomes quicker and easier to fight a colossus on foot than in the mako. OT but I thought it was funny.

#51668
Bushido Effect

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JasonSic wrote...

This plus this gives me hope.


Sorry but that GameInformer interview was from NOV 2011.  The EC is out now, and feedback was already recieved by Hudson.

#51669
Leonia

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Rosewind wrote...

OMFG I just realised something, You know when you at the base just before the beam run and how everything seems off. Well you remember just after Liara you can hear a doctor talking to a women on the radio about some ones leg.
Well at the start when Shepard and Anderson go to the radio they pull the bridge thingy off someone, well anyone noticed it was on his leg?


Whoa, mind blown. There's so much in London that resembles the start of the game in Vancouver.

#51670
Rosewind

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leonia42 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

OMFG I just realised something, You know when you at the base just before the beam run and how everything seems off. Well you remember just after Liara you can hear a doctor talking to a women on the radio about some ones leg.
Well at the start when Shepard and Anderson go to the radio they pull the bridge thingy off someone, well anyone noticed it was on his leg?


Whoa, mind blown. There's so much in London that resembles the start of the game in Vancouver.


According to Turbo it is not relevant ....

#51671
gunslinger_ruiz

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Rosewind wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

OMFG I just realised something, You know when you at the base just before the beam run and how everything seems off. Well you remember just after Liara you can hear a doctor talking to a women on the radio about some ones leg.
Well at the start when Shepard and Anderson go to the radio they pull the bridge thingy off someone, well anyone noticed it was on his leg?


Whoa, mind blown. There's so much in London that resembles the start of the game in Vancouver.


According to Turbo it is not relevant ....


Coincidental is all....Very coincidental.

#51672
RavenEyry

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"This room's too small and something keeps talking" -salarian succumbing to indoctrination.

#51673
Zan51

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Rosewind wrote...

OMFG I just realised something, You know when you at the base just before the beam run and how everything seems off. Well you remember just after Liara you can hear a doctor talking to a women on the radio about some ones leg.
Well at the start when Shepard and Anderson go to the radio they pull the bridge thingy off someone, well anyone noticed it was on his leg?


Yes, but there is also a marine in the Huerta Hospital on the Citadel with a leg injury. It's just easier to do leg or arm injuries for non-essential wounded persons when writing SF warfare, means less descripton, or rather, less art work for the injury - just hide it under a blanket etc. I don't think it is significant.

#51674
FreddyCast

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Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

I think we can trust Vendetta, it's the Godbrat we can't trust.
And I completely agree with you on the rest, except for the Reapers surviving part. They need to go. They are an abomination, unworthy of living, having absolutely no justification to keep on existing in any form. Three games is long enough. But that's just me. Plus, they're not the type to retreat or give up.


No the Reapers dont seem liek the types to retreat, but neither do they seem stupid enough to fight a battle they cant win. I am not saying they should survive in any kind of numbers taht makes them a future threat, but enough to keep opputunities like Indoctrination around.

But concerning Vendetta I relaly see no reason to trust him. Off course he still has more credit to him than Godbrat whose trustworthiness is below 0, but Vendetta just knows way, way to much.

Ill try to make it short to not have to post up my entire wall of text on Vendetta again:

Vendetta speaks of how the Reapers ar only a part of the cycle, not the creators of it, but have you ever asked yourself how he knows?

The Reapers are not exactly talktive or understandable when it comes to their motives and the Protheans were even cut of, their Relay newtowrk shut down. Whoever made Vendetta and found out ab out the cycle did so from ressearch only based in the Athena Cluster. Whoever did it had no acess to the Citadel and by extension the Catalyst and I doubt there was alot of opputunities to study the reapers patterns while they were harvesting the cluster...inf act even if you study their patterns how do you reach such a conclusion?

Vendetta also knows what the Catalyst is, but based on the same criteria as above how does he know? It cant ahve been information obtained before the Reapers arrived because then it makes no sense that the information was not in the mars Archive.

In fact it makes no sense that they never told or tried to spread the information of the Catalyst. We know there was a working Prothean Beacon in the Athena Cluster as Javik all the way over in the Exodus Cluster on Eden Prime knew about the Crucible beeing build in the Athena Cluster (Vendetta is based on the Protheans Crucible Project Overseer according to what it says). A simple quick sentence to Javik (since he is supposed to lead the next cycle) saying the Citadel is the Catalyst woudl have helped immnesely...but gameplay reason on that one.

But this is just a little part of the strange things sourrounding Vendetta. Its strangeness ony becomes more apperent when compared to Vigil from ME1 who does a great number out of pointing out that every piece of information concerning the Reapers is theory and not fact...where as Vendetta states everything as fact without anything to back it up.

Tell me if youw ant the entire write up I did, because the way I see it Vendetta is not to be trusted, there is simply to many ifs and hows in it. 

The Protheans probably learned and knew all about this before the Reapers invaded and kept it secret, not wanting to believe, just like the Citadel Council didn't want to believe the Reapers existed or that there was a pattern of extinction evry 50,000 years, until the Reapers came and began attacking them. Javik even said that they believed the Mass relays came from the Innusannon and kept it a secret for centuries.
Gotta go to bed now, see ya guys.

#51675
RavenEyry

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And now I'm at the friendly chat with Sovereign, completely at odds with everything Mr. Sparkle says.