55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Rosewind]

Man that old lady with dementia and her daughter law in the embassy makes me cry everytime.

[TSA_383]

FreddyCast wrote...

Hey guys, I know I already mentioned this before, but what do you think the Crucible actually does?
Some have said it is a time machine that pulls past armadas into the present outnumbering the reapers and defeating them, others say it's a combination of an EMP bomb and an indoctrination canceller?
Is there any other idea that you think the Crucible does?
And please don't say it's a Reaper Trap.
Just think for a moment and say that it's not a reaper trap, but a superweapon meant to stop the Reapers. How would the Crucible stop them?

For the record, here's how I think it's going to go down:

-Harbinger tries to control Shepard
-Shepard breaks free (destroy ending)
-This weakens Harbinger/drops its shields, similarly to the Saren/Sovereign connection break in ME1.
-Harbinger is killed, either in a boss battle or by the normandy or some such thing.
-Harbinger, as the original successful reaper, exerted control over the reaper fleets. With Harbinger gone their command is shattered.
-Epic victory etc.

Also, can't wait for Leviathan.


ALSO
I'm about to move 500 miles, so I'll not be on properly for a bit - might pop by with my laptop when I get there, which knowing my driving will take about 6 hours

[RavenEyry]

TSA_383 wrote...

I'm about to move 500 miles, so I'll not be on properly for a bit - might pop by with my laptop when I get there, which knowing my driving will take about 6 hours

The law caught up with you again?

[Dam0299]

Rosewind wrote...

Man that old lady with dementia and her daughter law in the embassy makes me cry everytime.

I dont think the asari the old lady is talking to is her daughter in law, I think she just thinks it's her daughter in law cause her son married a asari.

[Rosewind]

Dam0299 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Man that old lady with dementia and her daughter law in the embassy makes me cry everytime.

I dont think the asari the old lady is talking to is her daughter in law, I think she just thinks it's her daughter in law cause her son married a asari.

Think she is cause she calls the women by her first name at one stage and the lady tells her off.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

FreddyCast wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

No the Reapers dont seem liek the types to retreat, but neither do they seem stupid enough to fight a battle they cant win. I am not saying they should survive in any kind of numbers taht makes them a future threat, but enough to keep opputunities like Indoctrination around.

But concerning Vendetta I relaly see no reason to trust him. Off course he still has more credit to him than Godbrat whose trustworthiness is below 0, but Vendetta just knows way, way to much.

Ill try to make it short to not have to post up my entire wall of text on Vendetta again:

Vendetta speaks of how the Reapers ar only a part of the cycle, not the creators of it, but have you ever asked yourself how he knows?

The Reapers are not exactly talktive or understandable when it comes to their motives and the Protheans were even cut of, their Relay newtowrk shut down. Whoever made Vendetta and found out ab out the cycle did so from ressearch only based in the Athena Cluster. Whoever did it had no acess to the Citadel and by extension the Catalyst and I doubt there was alot of opputunities to study the reapers patterns while they were harvesting the cluster...inf act even if you study their patterns how do you reach such a conclusion?

Vendetta also knows what the Catalyst is, but based on the same criteria as above how does he know? It cant ahve been information obtained before the Reapers arrived because then it makes no sense that the information was not in the mars Archive.

In fact it makes no sense that they never told or tried to spread the information of the Catalyst. We know there was a working Prothean Beacon in the Athena Cluster as Javik all the way over in the Exodus Cluster on Eden Prime knew about the Crucible beeing build in the Athena Cluster (Vendetta is based on the Protheans Crucible Project Overseer according to what it says). A simple quick sentence to Javik (since he is supposed to lead the next cycle) saying the Citadel is the Catalyst woudl have helped immnesely...but gameplay reason on that one.

But this is just a little part of the strange things sourrounding Vendetta. Its strangeness ony becomes more apperent when compared to Vigil from ME1 who does a great number out of pointing out that every piece of information concerning the Reapers is theory and not fact...where as Vendetta states everything as fact without anything to back it up.

Tell me if youw ant the entire write up I did, because the way I see it Vendetta is not to be trusted, there is simply to many ifs and hows in it. 

The Protheans probably learned and knew all about this before the Reapers invaded and kept it secret, not wanting to believe, just like the Citadel Council didn't want to believe the Reapers existed or that there was a pattern of extinction evry 50,000 years, until the Reapers came and began attacking them. Javik even said that they believed the Mass relays came from the Innusannon and kept it a secret for centuries.
Gotta go to bed now, see ya guys.

I know he is not here but gotta post my reply:

Even if the Protheans knew the Reapers existed it is still a massive jump between that and knowing about the Catalyst. I mean Liara knew about the cycle of extinction, that part si not to hard to find out, it is figuring out what and how that is hard.

Even with all their knowledge the Protheans still did not know the Reapers would come through the Citadel and lost it near instantly.

They knew about the Reapers but Vigil, the VI created by the Protheans to scienctists, knows nothing certain about except taht they come through the Citadel Relay and wipe out Organic life. Everything beyond that he can only theorize about and not even once does he bring the possibility of a guiding force up, unlike Vendetta.

There is no logical way Vendetta knew about the Reapers having a guiding force nor what the Catalyst, because if they knew about it before the Reapers arrived why didnt they ahd vital information like that to the Mars Archive or spread it out. And i dont see how they could have learned of it sooner considering whoever made Vendetta was isolated in the Athena Cluster with no acess to the Citadel or anything which they supposedly no so much about.

[Dam0299]

Rosewind wrote...

Dam0299 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Man that old lady with dementia and her daughter law in the embassy makes me cry everytime.

I dont think the asari the old lady is talking to is her daughter in law, I think she just thinks it's her daughter in law cause her son married a asari.

Think she is cause she calls the women by her first name at one stage and the lady tells her off.

Is this the one your referring to?

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

Are you not going to respond to the point then? How can they access his memories then?

Ahhh, I see where you're coming from Turbo Won't answer reasonable questions

I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

[RavenEyry]

SubAstris wrote...
I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

Debunk isn't the right word. You make counterpoints, some rather good, but you haven't debunked anything.

[SubAstris]

Simon_Says wrote...

Okay, so I'm gone for only a few hours and several pages pop up, mostly talking about infrasonic noise (which hasn't been discredited yet, and efforts should go towards attempting to*) and the whole problem about the Catalyst's image being that of Earthkid. I'll expand something I wrote earlier in an attempt to finally put this topic to rest.

Subastris, I hope you're reading this.

Right, we know two definite facts.
1 - The Catalyst appears as the Earthchild. (Self evident)
2 - The image of the Earthchild is a significant symbol in Shepard's psyche. (Obvious conclusion of the dreams)

Now, assuming the Earthchild was real, Shepard has had a grand total of three interactions with him. First, watching the Child in the garden from the window. Second, talking with him in the vent. And third, Shepard witnesses his death from the Normandy. If there were more events than these it was never revealed explicitly or implicitly and therefore are irrelevant to this analysis.

That means the reapers had a grand total of three opportunities to observe Shepard and the child together. The first is from orbit (when Shepard is obscured by a building), the second through walls and vents (where both Shepard and the child were obscured), and only the third being in plain sight.

Considering Shepard's multiple-choice histories, which canonically involve the death of two subordinates in ME1 (Jenkins and either Kaiden/Ashley), and potentially involve an entire crew on Akuze, members (even potentially love interests) lost during the Suicide Mission, and the psychologically significant effects of Mindoir, Torfan, Elysium, even Shepard's potential childhood on Earth, etc. How do the reapers extrapolate that Shepard would be significantly affected by the image of the Earthchild based on three encounters, two of which are long shots? If they didn't extrapolate this and the Catalyst chose to use the Earthchild's image for a different reason, what then is the reason it specifically chose the Earthchild and not something else? And to what purpose exactly?

Your assumption here is that they chose the form of the kid because Shepard felt some emotional attachment , I'm saying the Catalyst chose it because it was non-threatening. All I am saying is that the fact that the Catalyst is used in the nightmares and he appears at the end aren't necessarily linked.

Not to mention, if the reapers observed Shepard in any of the three events, why did they not take the opportunity to attack Shepard directly? Particularly in the third event, the only one where Shepard is in plain sight, on the Normandy (a very unique vessel the reapers must have been aware of, see: ME1/ME2), with a Destroyer standing right there already firing near the Normandy's location (the shuttles were between the Destroyer and Normandy, remember)?

BW need Shepard off the planet, they can't have him dying in the first quarter of an hour.

So either the reapers saw Shepard and the Earthchild and chose not to attack Shepard, or they didn't and the image of the Earthchild must have been acquired elsewhere. But here's the kicker: from where did the reapers acquire a sample of the child's voice? The only instance where we hear the Earthchild speak is during the vent scene. In the mire of chaos and battle can we really expect the reapers to have heard that discussion when there were literally no reapers, husks, or indoctrinated agents in the immediate vicinity?

To conclude that the reapers saw and heard the child and extrapolated his future signficance to Shepard from a maximum of three tenuous encounters instead of acquiring the image and voice from Shepard's mind, something that is established to be within their capabilities, would be... foolish in my honest opinion, to put it lightly.

And either way, the Catalyst chose to use that image, specifically to appear non-threatening. Bioware confirmed that much. However, "to appear non-threatening" is not a goal. It's a means to a goal. Therefore it's obvious that the Catalyst was employing psychological manipulations on Shepard. Note that manipulation in and of itself is not a sign of antagonism or malice. If the Catalyst was genuinely trying to not be Shepard's enemy then not appearing as a terrible tentacled titan would be just common sense


The problem is that the Catalyst, whatever it is, was associated with The Enemy right up to the point when the Crucible docked. We didn't, and still don't know for certain what the Crucible is or what it actually does for certain, and thus we can't actually ascertain whether the Catalyst's stance actually had changed when the Crucible docked. The Catalyst also admits its associatation with The Enemy and even claims responsibility for their actions, which may I remind you, constitute heinous war crimes never once involving any extenuating circumstances whatsoever

We can't know for sure, the only evidence we can use is his words, and they seem to suggest that has in fact changed, and there is little evidence that he hasn't in fact changed.

As for the last point, I realise the Catalyst has done wrong, but it's odd that having done all that he would be frank about all considering he wants to portray himself as a "good guy" in your eyes.

The Catalyst is manipulating Shepard. The Catalyst was the enemy. "Innocent until proven guilty" does not apply here. Whatever the Catalyst said should be met with extreme skepticism. And, as has been demonstrated a thousand times before, the Catalyst's arguments just don't hold up to scrutiny. Therefore we must conclude that the Catalyst is not telling us the whole truth, and that it's still the enemy one way or another.

The only other way for the Catalyst to appear as the Starchild would be if Shepard him/herself endowed the Catalyst with that image in Shepard's own mind. The problem here of course is that that would imply that Shepard is definitely hallucinating by definition.

Whatever the case, in that crucible chamber, Shepard (and the player) is not observing un-manipulated reality. Some entity, either the Catalyst, the entity presenting the Catalyst, or Shepard's broken mind is directing what Shepard sees to some unknown end. And it has already been demonstrated in the series that Indoctrination involves exactly that.

From this, the rest of Indoctrination Theory follows.

Why not? You have to come from somewhere when assessing the validity and truthfulness of someone's statement, why does that suddenly not apply here? Presumably you agree with the principle when it comes to real people, right?

Of course his arguments don't hold up to scrutiny, if they did what would be the point fighting the Reapers? The fact is that circumstances have changed and now new paths are open. Just because it is wrong doesn't necessarily imply it is lying but made a genuine mistake, albeit one that killed trillions of beings.

Modifié par SubAstris, 22 juillet 2012 - 11:18 .

[SubAstris]

RavenEyry wrote...

SubAstris wrote...
I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

Debunk isn't the right word. You make counterpoints, some rather good, but you haven't debunked anything.

You're right. It is kinda like the term "literalist" in that respect

[MaximizedAction]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Wrong, Its not an A,B,or C ending. Its a Blue,Green,Red ending. Casey was telling the truth

Ctr - Alt - Del 

*motherofgod.jpg*

JasonSic wrote...

KevShep wrote...

byne wrote...

BioWare straight up said there wouldnt be a 'Reaper off switch.'

Then they gave us a Reaper off switch.

I
mean, that cant even be excused as bad writing. Thats deliberate
misinformation. I doubt they'd just straight up lie like that without a
purpose.

This^ was the biggest one for me. The crucible came out of nowhere and at a very convenient time.

Casey also said the ending wasn't A, B, C. That's what we got, so that's not the ending.

Technically, those aren't lies, as they are more than 3 endings and there is no button with "Reaper off".

A wayyy better quote from Casey Hudson is:

We are only part of their reproductive cycle. We're nothing to them"

I also found this great sum up of quotes from the german GameStar magazine article:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9034920/

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 22 juillet 2012 - 11:38 .

[CoolioThane]

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Are you not going to respond to the point then? How can they access his memories then?

Ahhh, I see where you're coming from Turbo Won't answer reasonable questions

I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

So you don't answer the question again...

You haven't debunked anything I've said, and you seem to keep avoiding this question. Is it because you can't answer it?

EDIT: Do you not think it a bit arrogant to claim you've debunked a theory using your opinion?

Modifié par CoolioThane, 22 juillet 2012 - 12:11 .

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Are you not going to respond to the point then? How can they access his memories then?

Ahhh, I see where you're coming from Turbo Won't answer reasonable questions

I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

So you don't answer the question again...

You haven't debunked anything I've said, and you seem to keep avoiding this question. Is it because you can't answer it?

EDIT: Do you not think it a bit arrogant to claim you've debunked a theory using your opinion?

Just read my other posts.

I have no idea how my male Shepard has memories of a female version of himself so I don't know...

Modifié par SubAstris, 22 juillet 2012 - 12:16 .

[CoolioThane]

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Are you not going to respond to the point then? How can they access his memories then?

Ahhh, I see where you're coming from Turbo Won't answer reasonable questions

I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

So you don't answer the question again...

You haven't debunked anything I've said, and you seem to keep avoiding this question. Is it because you can't answer it?

EDIT: Do you not think it a bit arrogant to claim you've debunked a theory using your opinion?

Just read my other posts.

I have no idea how my male Shepard has memories of a female version of himself so I don't know...

So in your opinion is the Catalyst not made from Shepard's memories?

[Lokanaiya]

FellishBeast wrote...

You guys need to learn to ignore SubAstris. He'll just keep coming back if you feed him.

Once again, Fellish speaks words of wisdom.

[RavenEyry]

Lokanaiya wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

You guys need to learn to ignore SubAstris. He'll just keep coming back if you feed him.

Once again, Fellish speaks words of wisdom.

He's not a troll though. We come across as the jerks if we ignore everyone who disagrees.

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Are you not going to respond to the point then? How can they access his memories then?

Ahhh, I see where you're coming from Turbo Won't answer reasonable questions

I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

So you don't answer the question again...

You haven't debunked anything I've said, and you seem to keep avoiding this question. Is it because you can't answer it?

EDIT: Do you not think it a bit arrogant to claim you've debunked a theory using your opinion?

Just read my other posts.

I have no idea how my male Shepard has memories of a female version of himself so I don't know...

So in your opinion is the Catalyst not made from Shepard's memories?

If that is what BW said, then yes, I just don't know what that means

[CoolioThane]

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Are you not going to respond to the point then? How can they access his memories then?

Ahhh, I see where you're coming from Turbo Won't answer reasonable questions

I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

So you don't answer the question again...

You haven't debunked anything I've said, and you seem to keep avoiding this question. Is it because you can't answer it?

EDIT: Do you not think it a bit arrogant to claim you've debunked a theory using your opinion?

Just read my other posts.

I have no idea how my male Shepard has memories of a female version of himself so I don't know...

So in your opinion is the Catalyst not made from Shepard's memories?

If that is what BW said, then yes, I just don't know what that means

Surely it means that the Catalyst is made up at least partly, of Shepard's memories. So, the Reapers must have access to Shepard's mind...right?

[Rosewind]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Are you not going to respond to the point then? How can they access his memories then?

Ahhh, I see where you're coming from Turbo Won't answer reasonable questions

I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

So you don't answer the question again...

You haven't debunked anything I've said, and you seem to keep avoiding this question. Is it because you can't answer it?

EDIT: Do you not think it a bit arrogant to claim you've debunked a theory using your opinion?

Just read my other posts.

I have no idea how my male Shepard has memories of a female version of himself so I don't know...

So in your opinion is the Catalyst not made from Shepard's memories?

I think what Bioware said is that it draws from Shepard's memories, I don't recall them saying it was made entirely of them.

[CoolioThane]

Rosewind wrote...


I think what Bioware said is that it draws from Shepard's memories, I don't recall them saying it was made entirely of them.

Yes, they said it was "partly" made from Shep's memories. The reapers must still have had to have had access to our mind to know our memories

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Are you not going to respond to the point then? How can they access his memories then?

Ahhh, I see where you're coming from Turbo Won't answer reasonable questions

I needed to go sleep, but anyway, your questions are flying here and there as I continually debunk the last one that I can't keep up

So you don't answer the question again...

You haven't debunked anything I've said, and you seem to keep avoiding this question. Is it because you can't answer it?

EDIT: Do you not think it a bit arrogant to claim you've debunked a theory using your opinion?

Just read my other posts.

I have no idea how my male Shepard has memories of a female version of himself so I don't know...

So in your opinion is the Catalyst not made from Shepard's memories?

If that is what BW said, then yes, I just don't know what that means

Surely it means that the Catalyst is made up at least partly, of Shepard's memories. So, the Reapers must have access to Shepard's mind...right?

Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

[CoolioThane]

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

[The Twilight God]

byne wrote...

A) Synthesis is much more boring to watch without this song playing in the background.

Good stuff.

byne wrote...

 Synthesis apparently decides your choices dont matter for crap, and goes ahead and cures the genophage even if you sabotaged it, effectively spitting in my face, and meaning not only did I kill Mordin and Wrex, I did it for absolutely no god damned reason.

Yeah, a Destroy means I got the Geth "true intelligence" and made peace between them and the quarians for nothing. Two games worht of work down the drain. GO CHOICES!!!!

[Leonia]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

Right but why use both genders of Shepard for the voice if only one can exist in any one telling of the story?

Why not combine your chosen gender's voice with some other neutral voice or just leave that voice on its own?

Modifié par leonia42, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:50 .