55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Lokanaiya]

@RavenEyry
First off, sorry I took so long to respond. Second, maybe not a troll in the traditional sense, but he is close-minded and uses logic only to justify what he already believes, not to reach a new conclusion. We've been explaining IT to him for months now and it seems obvious that we're never going to convince him, and, frankly, his arguments aren't that great either. For myself, at least, I just don't see the point in answering him.

[The Twilight God]

comrade gando wrote...

not only that, but pretty much every statement they said pre-release was flat out false by the time the game ended. they straight up lied to everyone and claimed artistic integrity. it sucks and they know it. if you want to get an idea of how little they care it sucks, take a look at tali's face. Let that face be the representation for the amount of effort that went in to this game.

What pisses me of about Tali's face is that they said they didn't want her to have a generic face. She deserved a real face like Liara ,Miranda, Samara, etc.

But they get her a stock photo vs. say.. I don't know... LIZ FREAKIN SROKA'S BEAUTIFUL FACE!!!!! But some unimportant optional nobody reporter who I only spoke to once on the Citadel before I refused her request to come aboard got a face model? W. T. F. ?!?!?!

Modifié par The Twilight God, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:53 .

[CoolioThane]

leonia42 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

Right but why use both genders of Shepard for the voice if only one can exist in any one telling of the story?

Why not combine your chosen gender's voice with some other neutral voice or just leave that voice on its own?

I think "partly" might be the key word in what they said. Your Shepard wouldn't have any idea what the other gender version of yourself would sound like, and so it kinda is neutral in a way? It's still weird, but the Reapers are a bit mental.

[Leonia]

Lokanaiya wrote...

@RavenEyry
First off, sorry I took
so long to respond. Second, maybe not a troll in the traditional sense,
but he is close-minded and uses logic only to justify what he already
believes, not to reach a new conclusion. We've been explaining IT to him
for months now and it seems obvious that we're never going to convince
him, and, frankly, his arguments aren't that great either. For myself,
at least, I just don't see the point in answering him.

Then don't answer him but to ignore something that you don't believe in is just as close-minded. He hasn't insulted anyone here or acted in a troll manner, whether he agrees with IT or not. Don't continue to give ITers a bad rap because someone isn't easily convinced by your argument.

Modifié par leonia42, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:55 .

[RavenEyry]

Lokanaiya wrote...
First off, sorry I took so long to respond. Second, maybe not a troll in the traditional sense, but he is close-minded and uses logic only to justify what he already believes, not to reach a new conclusion. We've been explaining IT to him for months now and it seems obvious that we're never going to convince him, and, frankly, his arguments aren't that great either. For myself, at least, I just don't see the point in answering him.

It's fine if you want to ignore him. I just find it rude to call people trolls when they aren't. We have a bit of a mixed reputation as it is, we don't need to be rude to anyone who disagrees.

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

I don't you quite understand what I'm getting at. Does Shepard have a female part of himself as a memory? No, that doesn't make sense, so I have no idea what BW actually mean by that

[CoolioThane]

Everyone, I need all the quotes you can find that non-ITers use to disprove IT but that we also take in a way that can add credence to IT! If you've got any spare or know of any, I'd be eternally grateful

[Leonia]

CoolioThane wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

Right but why use both genders of Shepard for the voice if only one can exist in any one telling of the story?

Why not combine your chosen gender's voice with some other neutral voice or just leave that voice on its own?

I think "partly" might be the key word in what they said. Your Shepard wouldn't have any idea what the other gender version of yourself would sound like, and so it kinda is neutral in a way? It's still weird, but the Reapers are a bit mental.

So why go through the extra effort having two voices, what's the point? Even if one is "partly" a memory and one isn't.. the other one shouldn't exist at all, memory or not.

[Gwyphon]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

Memories of female shep? Space Mardi Gras.

Modifié par Gwyphon, 22 juillet 2012 - 01:57 .

[RavenEyry]

Tali's face can actually be put down to time constraints unlike the ending. Effort definately went into the game.

(Personally, I'd prefer no face whatsoever to even an exquisitly modelled one.)

[Chriz Tah Fah]

Tali was great because she looked like whatever you wanted her to look like. If they were going to do a face then they should have spent time on it IMO.

[The Twilight God]

RavenEyry wrote...

Tali's face can actually be put down to time constraints unlike the ending. Effort definately went into the game.

(Personally, I'd prefer no face whatsoever to even an exquisitly modelled one.)

There was time for Diana Allers face so there was time for Tali's.

[CoolioThane]

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

I don't you quite understand what I'm getting at. Does Shepard have a female part of himself as a memory? No, that doesn't make sense, so I have no idea what BW actually mean by that

I understand. "Partly" is a word that means "not totally" - so the female part is not from his memories?

[Lokanaiya]

@leonia42
I know this is kind of a cop-out argument, but because that would give the trick away, especially if they had changed it in the EC to what you're suggesting. As soon as people got on YouTube, the forums, or even just played a character of a different gender through, they'd instantly know that something was fishy. If they had changed it the EC, which was supposed to provide clarification, it would prove that the Catalyst was made entirely of Shepard's memories and give it away even more than if it had been in the original game.

[CoolioThane]

leonia42 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

Right but why use both genders of Shepard for the voice if only one can exist in any one telling of the story?

Why not combine your chosen gender's voice with some other neutral voice or just leave that voice on its own?

I think "partly" might be the key word in what they said. Your Shepard wouldn't have any idea what the other gender version of yourself would sound like, and so it kinda is neutral in a way? It's still weird, but the Reapers are a bit mental.

So why go through the extra effort having two voices, what's the point? Even if one is "partly" a memory and one isn't.. the other one shouldn't exist at all, memory or not.

Sounds weird, doesn't it. Catalyst is weird. First time through I thought it was just a neat effect, making it sound creepy. I gave little thought to the voices being evidence for IT...but then Chris goes and says it's partly formed from Shep's memories which makes me think..."Oh, that's weird. That kinda proves they have access to my memories."

It's impossible for me to answer why starkid speaks in an opposite gender voice as well as ours, but it's obviously got something to do with the Reapers.

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

I don't you quite understand what I'm getting at. Does Shepard have a female part of himself as a memory? No, that doesn't make sense, so I have no idea what BW actually mean by that

I understand. "Partly" is a word that means "not totally" - so the female part is not from his memories?

I realise, but why is it there? Is there any symbolism to it? Does it add to IT/non-IT interpretations?

IMO it doesn't add to either and they only made a female voice to add a bit of "weight" to the Catalyst's voice, but then why not just make the voice actors do their lines again and make two male Shep tracks for male Shep and vice versa

[CoolioThane]

Gwyphon wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

Memories of female shep? Space Mardi Gras.

As I've said, "partly", not totally. This is coming from Chris, I don't know why I'm getting questioned 

[CoolioThane]

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

I don't you quite understand what I'm getting at. Does Shepard have a female part of himself as a memory? No, that doesn't make sense, so I have no idea what BW actually mean by that

I understand. "Partly" is a word that means "not totally" - so the female part is not from his memories?

I realise, but why is it there? Is there any symbolism to it? Does it add to IT/non-IT interpretations?

IMO it doesn't add to either and they only made a female voice to add a bit of "weight" to the Catalyst's voice, but then why not just make the voice actors do their lines again and make two male Shep tracks for male Shep and vice versa

I never thought the voices gave credence to either argument. However, Chris specifically stating it was partly made from our memories has got me believing it's pro-IT...

...did Hale and Meer voice any characters sounding very similar/identical to FemShep/Sheploo? That could explain it.

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

I don't you quite understand what I'm getting at. Does Shepard have a female part of himself as a memory? No, that doesn't make sense, so I have no idea what BW actually mean by that

I understand. "Partly" is a word that means "not totally" - so the female part is not from his memories?

I realise, but why is it there? Is there any symbolism to it? Does it add to IT/non-IT interpretations?

IMO it doesn't add to either and they only made a female voice to add a bit of "weight" to the Catalyst's voice, but then why not just make the voice actors do their lines again and make two male Shep tracks for male Shep and vice versa

I never thought the voices gave credence to either argument. However, Chris specifically stating it was partly made from our memories has got me believing it's pro-IT...

...did Hale and Meer voice any characters sounding very similar/identical to FemShep/Sheploo? That could explain it.

Not that I am aware of, so if they were that would be insignificant characters. Why use their voice then?

[nov_pl]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

I don't you quite understand what I'm getting at. Does Shepard have a female part of himself as a memory? No, that doesn't make sense, so I have no idea what BW actually mean by that

I understand. "Partly" is a word that means "not totally" - so the female part is not from his memories?

I realise, but why is it there? Is there any symbolism to it? Does it add to IT/non-IT interpretations?

IMO it doesn't add to either and they only made a female voice to add a bit of "weight" to the Catalyst's voice, but then why not just make the voice actors do their lines again and make two male Shep tracks for male Shep and vice versa

I never thought the voices gave credence to either argument. However, Chris specifically stating it was partly made from our memories has got me believing it's pro-IT...

...did Hale and Meer voice any characters sounding very similar/identical to FemShep/Sheploo? That could explain it.

Well, Mark was actually voicing The Biotic God

[Rosewind]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

I don't you quite understand what I'm getting at. Does Shepard have a female part of himself as a memory? No, that doesn't make sense, so I have no idea what BW actually mean by that

I understand. "Partly" is a word that means "not totally" - so the female part is not from his memories?

I realise, but why is it there? Is there any symbolism to it? Does it add to IT/non-IT interpretations?

IMO it doesn't add to either and they only made a female voice to add a bit of "weight" to the Catalyst's voice, but then why not just make the voice actors do their lines again and make two male Shep tracks for male Shep and vice versa

I never thought the voices gave credence to either argument. However, Chris specifically stating it was partly made from our memories has got me believing it's pro-IT...

...did Hale and Meer voice any characters sounding very similar/identical to FemShep/Sheploo? That could explain it.

I think Mike may have but I doubt Hale did

[Lokanaiya]

RavenEyry and Leonia42,
Ok, good points, I was being rude and a little hypocritical, and for that I apologize both to you and Subastris. I'll try to stay polite and civil in the future.

[Leonia]

They could have "disguised" the voice of the child differently but the fact that they did it in this manner seems to indicate something that none of us can seem to work out.

And now I'm imagining that CE artwork with female Shepard pulling male Shepard out of the rubble. I don't even..

[RavenEyry]

RavenEyry wrote...

Over night I thought of something else for the 'dream starts earlier' or 'warped perception' ideas, y'know about London looking like Vancouver crossed with Palavan's moon. The red phone boxes. Yes really. Today there are hardly any of those in London, the ones that are there are preserved because tourists expect to see them, yet not one but several survive the reaper invasion. When I saw them the first time I half expected to see a scots guard and a couple of beefeaters among Anderson's soldiers, thinking Bioware had made the same assumptions as tourists. But last night I thought 'has Shepard ever been to London before?'. Probably not, and they're seeing the phone boxes because they expect to see them in London.

Reposting this now some different people are on. (No, it's not supposed to inspire Doctor Who talk.)

[Leonia]

RavenEyry wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Over night I thought of something else for the 'dream starts earlier' or 'warped perception' ideas, y'know about London looking like Vancouver crossed with Palavan's moon. The red phone boxes. Yes really. Today there are hardly any of those in London, the ones that are there are preserved because tourists expect to see them, yet not one but several survive the reaper invasion. When I saw them the first time I half expected to see a scots guard and a couple of beefeaters among Anderson's soldiers, thinking Bioware had made the same assumptions as tourists. But last night I thought 'has Shepard ever been to London before?'. Probably not, and they're seeing the phone boxes because they expect to see them in London.

Reposting this now some different people are on. (No, it's not supposed to inspire Doctor Who talk.)

"I was born in London.." - Earthborn Shepard 

But seriously, it's a good question except we definitely see the phone box in the new Firebase London map in MP which we can assume is the "real deal".

Modifié par leonia42, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:30 .