55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwyphon]

Well I guess maybe the male and female Shepard voices are to better represent the entirety of humanity, as Shepard is stated as being several times. But the question of how the starchild knows what the voice sounds like is pretty ridiculous. If they used any other female voice would that not raise even more questions?

[smokingotter1]

leonia42 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


Well his voice is, that's what BW said, yes. I don't know what it really means because if the Reapers were in his mind and they are taking his memories, why does he have a memory of a female part of himself? Does that say anything about IT? I'm not saying I have a better explanation necessarily, just that it is very odd.

They said it was "partly" taken from memories. So the parts were the kid's voice and your Shep's voice. So if they access your memories it's fair to say thay take the form of that child from your memories...and dreams?

Right but why use both genders of Shepard for the voice if only one can exist in any one telling of the story?

Why not combine your chosen gender's voice with some other neutral voice or just leave that voice on its own?

Maybe they wanted to create the feeling of Shepard....yet not quite Shepard (don't know if that makes sense). Indoctrination turns the brain against itself, so you are talking to yourself, but not really yourself. The addition of the female voice lets you know this is not exactly your Shepard talking.

What are the alternatifves? Bioware could have opted to have an "evil Shepard" voice complete with mustache twirling sound effects.

[comrade gando]

BleedingUranium wrote...

What if the Crucible is both a mass indoctrination device, and our means of winning?

The Crucible turns out to be a mass indoctrination device, one that, when connected to the Citadel Relay, would spread it's indoctrination-ness throughout the entire galaxy. Not long after waking up, Shepard (& co) learn of this and attempt to stop it. Rather than destroying it, they come up with a better plan: sabotage it. I'm not going to attempt at details, but basically they'd reverse the Crucible's effects, resulting in an anti-indoctrination weapon, thus freeing all the people under the Reaper's control, notably the indoctrinated civilians turned into Cerberus troops, as well as, according to my other theory, the Reapers themselves! My "Reapers are indoctrinated" idea is key here, obviously, otherwise it wouldn't really help us. We know Reaper tech indoctrinates, so it's not much of a stretch to think that they Reapers themselves are too. Whether they did it to themselves (by accident) like TIM and Saren, or by their creators, etc, that doesn't matter. What matters (for this) is that they are.

-How could the Reapers not know about the Crucible? Solved!
-How do we defeat the Reapers without some kind of super weapon type thing? Solved!

Also, I've yet to see another idea adress both of these points


It would also reinforce the that the enemy we've been fighting throughout the entire series is actually indoctrination, both on a personal (Shepard) level, and as a galaxy.

-Geth Heretics: Indoctrinated
-Some ME1 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Benezia & Co: Indoctrinated
-Saren: Indoctrinated
-Collectors: Indoctrinated
-Some ME2 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Kenson & Co: Indoctrinated
-Some ME3 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Cerberus: Indoctrinated
-Kai Leng: Indoctrinated
-Illusive Man: Indoctrinated



The vast majority of our time in ME1/2/3 is spent fighting indoctrinated agents, not Reapers, and that doesn't even touch all the times it's talked about and such.

It's just after 01:00 here, so I'm pretty tired and I hope this makes sense

for real, that is some garbage. you're telling me that shepard has been around indoctrinated agents and reaper tech the entire trilogy, and has NEVER been indoctrinated? I call bull****. just like the ending epilogues.

[CoolioThane]

SubAstris wrote...

Not that I am aware of, so if they were that would be insignificant characters. Why use their voice then?

That's what we're trying to work out. 

Priestly: "Voice made up partly from Shepard's memories"

Femshep - Starchild voice made up from: memory of own voice, memory of kid's voice + Maleshep voice (Reaper implanted)

Sheploo - Starchild voice made up from: memory of own voice, memory of kid's voice + Femshep voice (Reaper implanted)

Maybe the presence of the opposite gender's voice is more indicative of the attempted indoctrination of the player? Those who are the biggest fans would have most likely played through as both FemShep and Sheploo which is why we've noticed the mixture of voices? <-- that's just a wild theory

Hell, if the Reapers can use spacemagic to turn every organic and synthetic life form into a mutant hybrid I'm sure they'd be able to know what Shepard would sound like as a woman 

That was a joke [/EDI] Honestly, it's crazy Reaper **** is what it is

[Leonia]

smokingotter1 wrote...

Maybe they wanted to create the feeling of Shepard....yet not quite Shepard (don't know if that makes sense). Indoctrination turns the brain against itself, so you are talking to yourself, but not really yourself. The addition of the female voice lets you know this is not exactly your Shepard talking.

What are the alternatifves? Bioware could have opted to have an "evil Shepard" voice complete with mustache twirling sound effects.

What would have been trippier is hearing Shepard's LI (or plot-armoured Liara if there is no LI) talking but that would defeat the effect of a conversaton with one's self (and perhaps the Reapers don't understand emotions well enough to use Shepard's allies against him/her).

[CoolioThane]

comrade gando wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

What if the Crucible is both a mass indoctrination device, and our means of winning?

The Crucible turns out to be a mass indoctrination device, one that, when connected to the Citadel Relay, would spread it's indoctrination-ness throughout the entire galaxy. Not long after waking up, Shepard (& co) learn of this and attempt to stop it. Rather than destroying it, they come up with a better plan: sabotage it. I'm not going to attempt at details, but basically they'd reverse the Crucible's effects, resulting in an anti-indoctrination weapon, thus freeing all the people under the Reaper's control, notably the indoctrinated civilians turned into Cerberus troops, as well as, according to my other theory, the Reapers themselves! My "Reapers are indoctrinated" idea is key here, obviously, otherwise it wouldn't really help us. We know Reaper tech indoctrinates, so it's not much of a stretch to think that they Reapers themselves are too. Whether they did it to themselves (by accident) like TIM and Saren, or by their creators, etc, that doesn't matter. What matters (for this) is that they are.

-How could the Reapers not know about the Crucible? Solved!
-How do we defeat the Reapers without some kind of super weapon type thing? Solved!

Also, I've yet to see another idea adress both of these points


It would also reinforce the that the enemy we've been fighting throughout the entire series is actually indoctrination, both on a personal (Shepard) level, and as a galaxy.

-Geth Heretics: Indoctrinated
-Some ME1 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Benezia & Co: Indoctrinated
-Saren: Indoctrinated
-Collectors: Indoctrinated
-Some ME2 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Kenson & Co: Indoctrinated
-Some ME3 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Cerberus: Indoctrinated
-Kai Leng: Indoctrinated
-Illusive Man: Indoctrinated



The vast majority of our time in ME1/2/3 is spent fighting indoctrinated agents, not Reapers, and that doesn't even touch all the times it's talked about and such.

It's just after 01:00 here, so I'm pretty tired and I hope this makes sense

for real, that is some garbage. you're telling me that shepard has been around indoctrinated agents and reaper tech the entire trilogy, and has NEVER been indoctrinated? I call bull****. just like the ending epilogues.

Bleeding is an IT fan.

[Rosewind]

CoolioThane wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

What if the Crucible is both a mass indoctrination device, and our means of winning?

The Crucible turns out to be a mass indoctrination device, one that, when connected to the Citadel Relay, would spread it's indoctrination-ness throughout the entire galaxy. Not long after waking up, Shepard (& co) learn of this and attempt to stop it. Rather than destroying it, they come up with a better plan: sabotage it. I'm not going to attempt at details, but basically they'd reverse the Crucible's effects, resulting in an anti-indoctrination weapon, thus freeing all the people under the Reaper's control, notably the indoctrinated civilians turned into Cerberus troops, as well as, according to my other theory, the Reapers themselves! My "Reapers are indoctrinated" idea is key here, obviously, otherwise it wouldn't really help us. We know Reaper tech indoctrinates, so it's not much of a stretch to think that they Reapers themselves are too. Whether they did it to themselves (by accident) like TIM and Saren, or by their creators, etc, that doesn't matter. What matters (for this) is that they are.

-How could the Reapers not know about the Crucible? Solved!
-How do we defeat the Reapers without some kind of super weapon type thing? Solved!

Also, I've yet to see another idea adress both of these points


It would also reinforce the that the enemy we've been fighting throughout the entire series is actually indoctrination, both on a personal (Shepard) level, and as a galaxy.

-Geth Heretics: Indoctrinated
-Some ME1 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Benezia & Co: Indoctrinated
-Saren: Indoctrinated
-Collectors: Indoctrinated
-Some ME2 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Kenson & Co: Indoctrinated
-Some ME3 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Cerberus: Indoctrinated
-Kai Leng: Indoctrinated
-Illusive Man: Indoctrinated



The vast majority of our time in ME1/2/3 is spent fighting indoctrinated agents, not Reapers, and that doesn't even touch all the times it's talked about and such.

It's just after 01:00 here, so I'm pretty tired and I hope this makes sense

for real, that is some garbage. you're telling me that shepard has been around indoctrinated agents and reaper tech the entire trilogy, and has NEVER been indoctrinated? I call bull****. just like the ending epilogues.

Bleeding is an IT fan.

I can't quiet tell if he is agreeing with Uranium or not...

[CoolioThane]

Rosewind wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

What if the Crucible is both a mass indoctrination device, and our means of winning?

The Crucible turns out to be a mass indoctrination device, one that, when connected to the Citadel Relay, would spread it's indoctrination-ness throughout the entire galaxy. Not long after waking up, Shepard (& co) learn of this and attempt to stop it. Rather than destroying it, they come up with a better plan: sabotage it. I'm not going to attempt at details, but basically they'd reverse the Crucible's effects, resulting in an anti-indoctrination weapon, thus freeing all the people under the Reaper's control, notably the indoctrinated civilians turned into Cerberus troops, as well as, according to my other theory, the Reapers themselves! My "Reapers are indoctrinated" idea is key here, obviously, otherwise it wouldn't really help us. We know Reaper tech indoctrinates, so it's not much of a stretch to think that they Reapers themselves are too. Whether they did it to themselves (by accident) like TIM and Saren, or by their creators, etc, that doesn't matter. What matters (for this) is that they are.

-How could the Reapers not know about the Crucible? Solved!
-How do we defeat the Reapers without some kind of super weapon type thing? Solved!

Also, I've yet to see another idea adress both of these points


It would also reinforce the that the enemy we've been fighting throughout the entire series is actually indoctrination, both on a personal (Shepard) level, and as a galaxy.

-Geth Heretics: Indoctrinated
-Some ME1 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Benezia & Co: Indoctrinated
-Saren: Indoctrinated
-Collectors: Indoctrinated
-Some ME2 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Kenson & Co: Indoctrinated
-Some ME3 side missions: Indoctrinated
-Cerberus: Indoctrinated
-Kai Leng: Indoctrinated
-Illusive Man: Indoctrinated



The vast majority of our time in ME1/2/3 is spent fighting indoctrinated agents, not Reapers, and that doesn't even touch all the times it's talked about and such.

It's just after 01:00 here, so I'm pretty tired and I hope this makes sense

for real, that is some garbage. you're telling me that shepard has been around indoctrinated agents and reaper tech the entire trilogy, and has NEVER been indoctrinated? I call bull****. just like the ending epilogues.

Bleeding is an IT fan.

I can't quiet tell if he is agreeing with Uranium or not...

Now you say that, I can see how it sounds like he both agrees and disagrees at the same time 

Apologies if you were agreeing xD

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Not that I am aware of, so if they were that would be insignificant characters. Why use their voice then?

That's what we're trying to work out. 

Priestly: "Voice made up partly from Shepard's memories"

Femshep - Starchild voice made up from: memory of own voice, memory of kid's voice + Maleshep voice (Reaper implanted)

Sheploo - Starchild voice made up from: memory of own voice, memory of kid's voice + Femshep voice (Reaper implanted)

Maybe the presence of the opposite gender's voice is more indicative of the attempted indoctrination of the player? Those who are the biggest fans would have most likely played through as both FemShep and Sheploo which is why we've noticed the mixture of voices? <-- that's just a wild theory

Hell, if the Reapers can use spacemagic to turn every organic and synthetic life form into a mutant hybrid I'm sure they'd be able to know what Shepard would sound like as a woman 

That was a joke [/EDI] Honestly, it's crazy Reaper **** is what it is

Sometimes I just wonder what the hell BW are doing

[Rosewind]

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Not that I am aware of, so if they were that would be insignificant characters. Why use their voice then?

That's what we're trying to work out. 

Priestly: "Voice made up partly from Shepard's memories"

Femshep - Starchild voice made up from: memory of own voice, memory of kid's voice + Maleshep voice (Reaper implanted)

Sheploo - Starchild voice made up from: memory of own voice, memory of kid's voice + Femshep voice (Reaper implanted)

Maybe the presence of the opposite gender's voice is more indicative of the attempted indoctrination of the player? Those who are the biggest fans would have most likely played through as both FemShep and Sheploo which is why we've noticed the mixture of voices? <-- that's just a wild theory

Hell, if the Reapers can use spacemagic to turn every organic and synthetic life form into a mutant hybrid I'm sure they'd be able to know what Shepard would sound like as a woman 

That was a joke [/EDI] Honestly, it's crazy Reaper **** is what it is

Sometimes I just wonder what the hell BW are doing

I agree with you on that point lol. But Hale voice isn't exactly that feminine though

[Chriz Tah Fah]

RavenEyry wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Over night I thought of something else for the 'dream starts earlier' or 'warped perception' ideas, y'know about London looking like Vancouver crossed with Palavan's moon. The red phone boxes. Yes really. Today there are hardly any of those in London, the ones that are there are preserved because tourists expect to see them, yet not one but several survive the reaper invasion. When I saw them the first time I half expected to see a scots guard and a couple of beefeaters among Anderson's soldiers, thinking Bioware had made the same assumptions as tourists. But last night I thought 'has Shepard ever been to London before?'. Probably not, and they're seeing the phone boxes because they expect to see them in London.

Reposting this now some different people are on. (No, it's not supposed to inspire Doctor Who talk.)

It was definitely odd. It is possible in the future that they maintain/rebuild landmarks. Big ben is still there so then it might make sense that the future civilization would rebuild the phone boxes. This to me is not odd. The odd part is that with all the destruction in London the phone booths...survive? They hardly look damaged/charred/burnt nothing they are just there. I don't even think the glass is broken.

The game keeps trying to force the fact that it's London on us. Big ben, phone booths, Anderson stating that it was London. I think we got the point the first time when we were told to strike at London. Why the constant repetition then? It doesn't make sense, we would already assume it was London without the added phone booths. It almost seems as if the reapers have a pre conceived notion about human civilization so they put it in the hallucination because they think we'd expect it to be there.

[MaximizedAction]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

The game keeps trying to force the fact that it's London on us. Big ben, phone booths, Anderson stating that it was London. I think we got the point the first time when we were told to strike at London. Why the constant repetition then? It doesn't make sense, we would already assume it was London without the added phone booths. It almost seems as if the reapers have a pre conceived notion about human civilization so they put it in the hallucination because they think we'd expect it to be there.

Great point! I also noticed how I was spoonfed that it was London. I get how maybe Bioware wanted to not make the game more international, as in: New York is not the only place we see destroyed or get to fight as the final mission. It's very international, also the Earth on background of ME3 cover is such that Italy is visible, not North America. So it could be to adress the importance of the whole Earth, not just the USA.

But Vancouver didn't get adressed as often as London, and I still got it that that was Vancouver. Somehow London is as important as Coats, since we see both in the main trailer. Funnily, Shepard just had a small cameo in that trailer; one would rather expect that reversed: Shepard as that brave soldier who kept fighting till the bloody end. But no, Shep has to flee and watch until he can do something about it.

[Applepie_Svk]

 What do you think fellow ITers ? IT from different point of view...

[nov_pl]

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Over night I thought of something else for the 'dream starts earlier' or 'warped perception' ideas, y'know about London looking like Vancouver crossed with Palavan's moon. The red phone boxes. Yes really. Today there are hardly any of those in London, the ones that are there are preserved because tourists expect to see them, yet not one but several survive the reaper invasion. When I saw them the first time I half expected to see a scots guard and a couple of beefeaters among Anderson's soldiers, thinking Bioware had made the same assumptions as tourists. But last night I thought 'has Shepard ever been to London before?'. Probably not, and they're seeing the phone boxes because they expect to see them in London.

Reposting this now some different people are on. (No, it's not supposed to inspire Doctor Who talk.)

It was definitely odd. It is possible in the future that they maintain/rebuild landmarks. Big ben is still there so then it might make sense that the future civilization would rebuild the phone boxes. This to me is not odd. The odd part is that with all the destruction in London the phone booths...survive? They hardly look damaged/charred/burnt nothing they are just there. I don't even think the glass is broken.

The game keeps trying to force the fact that it's London on us. Big ben, phone booths, Anderson stating that it was London. I think we got the point the first time when we were told to strike at London. Why the constant repetition then? It doesn't make sense, we would already assume it was London without the added phone booths. It almost seems as if the reapers have a pre conceived notion about human civilization so they put it in the hallucination because they think we'd expect it to be there.

Well, I guess if you ask yourself "how to make an location look english?", you automaticly come up with the red phone box 

[Rosewind]

nov_pl wrote...

Chriz Tah Fah wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Over night I thought of something else for the 'dream starts earlier' or 'warped perception' ideas, y'know about London looking like Vancouver crossed with Palavan's moon. The red phone boxes. Yes really. Today there are hardly any of those in London, the ones that are there are preserved because tourists expect to see them, yet not one but several survive the reaper invasion. When I saw them the first time I half expected to see a scots guard and a couple of beefeaters among Anderson's soldiers, thinking Bioware had made the same assumptions as tourists. But last night I thought 'has Shepard ever been to London before?'. Probably not, and they're seeing the phone boxes because they expect to see them in London.

Reposting this now some different people are on. (No, it's not supposed to inspire Doctor Who talk.)

It was definitely odd. It is possible in the future that they maintain/rebuild landmarks. Big ben is still there so then it might make sense that the future civilization would rebuild the phone boxes. This to me is not odd. The odd part is that with all the destruction in London the phone booths...survive? They hardly look damaged/charred/burnt nothing they are just there. I don't even think the glass is broken.

The game keeps trying to force the fact that it's London on us. Big ben, phone booths, Anderson stating that it was London. I think we got the point the first time when we were told to strike at London. Why the constant repetition then? It doesn't make sense, we would already assume it was London without the added phone booths. It almost seems as if the reapers have a pre conceived notion about human civilization so they put it in the hallucination because they think we'd expect it to be there.

Well, I guess if you ask yourself "how to make an location look english?", you automaticly come up with the red phone box 

Or blue police boxes

[CoolioThane]

I really enjoyed it Applepie! Very intriguing take on it

[Turbo_J]

Rosewind wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Not that I am aware of, so if they were that would be insignificant characters. Why use their voice then?

That's what we're trying to work out. 

Priestly: "Voice made up partly from Shepard's memories"

Femshep - Starchild voice made up from: memory of own voice, memory of kid's voice + Maleshep voice (Reaper implanted)

Sheploo - Starchild voice made up from: memory of own voice, memory of kid's voice + Femshep voice (Reaper implanted)

Maybe the presence of the opposite gender's voice is more indicative of the attempted indoctrination of the player? Those who are the biggest fans would have most likely played through as both FemShep and Sheploo which is why we've noticed the mixture of voices? <-- that's just a wild theory

Hell, if the Reapers can use spacemagic to turn every organic and synthetic life form into a mutant hybrid I'm sure they'd be able to know what Shepard would sound like as a woman 

That was a joke [/EDI] Honestly, it's crazy Reaper **** is what it is

Sometimes I just wonder what the hell BW are doing

I agree with you on that point lol. But Hale voice isn't exactly that feminine though

I've always viewed this as a fourth wall break in an attempt to alert the player that all is not quite as it seems. Not saying that is a correct interpretation, it's just the only one that made sense to me; because it worked. I've always seen that 'kid' in all his forms as a warning. Shepard's subconscious uses that image in the dreams and during the Citadel hallucination to warn the player 'it' should not be trusted.

[TSA_383]

RavenEyry wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Over night I thought of something else for the 'dream starts earlier' or 'warped perception' ideas, y'know about London looking like Vancouver crossed with Palavan's moon. The red phone boxes. Yes really. Today there are hardly any of those in London, the ones that are there are preserved because tourists expect to see them, yet not one but several survive the reaper invasion. When I saw them the first time I half expected to see a scots guard and a couple of beefeaters among Anderson's soldiers, thinking Bioware had made the same assumptions as tourists. But last night I thought 'has Shepard ever been to London before?'. Probably not, and they're seeing the phone boxes because they expect to see them in London.

Reposting this now some different people are on. (No, it's not supposed to inspire Doctor Who talk.)

To be honest, we're talking about a canadian developer with an american publisher creating London in a game that's going to be sold to people who also play Gears of War...

I'm halfway surprised they didn't have a character called "Constable Blimeychips".

RavenEyry wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

I'm
about to move 500 miles, so I'll not be on properly for a bit - might
pop by with my laptop when I get there, which knowing my driving will
take about 6 hours [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

The law caught up with you again?

Totally.
Also, byne may have posted from an aircraft, but I've now posted from a Costa Coffee.
So THERE!

[RavenEyry]

TSA_383 wrote...

To be honest, we're talking about a canadian developer with an american publisher creating London in a game that's going to be sold to people who also play Gears of War...

I'm halfway surprised they didn't have a character called "Constable Blimeychips".

How did you know my nickname for Coates? Witch!

[CoolioThane]

@Raven

I'm enjoying reading the quotes the literalists are giving (when they aren't abusing me) - are you ?

[RavenEyry]

CoolioThane wrote...

@Raven

I'm enjoying reading the quotes the literalists are giving (when they aren't abusing me) - are you ?

Most quotes can go either way. What's notable is so many people leap in to deny IT without giving evidence. Reminds me of that thread where someone asked how EC disproves IT because they keep hearing that without explanation. Not one single answer explained how EC disproves IT, but assured the OP that it does.

[CoolioThane]

RavenEyry wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

@Raven

I'm enjoying reading the quotes the literalists are giving (when they aren't abusing me) - are you ?

Most quotes can go either way. What's notable is so many people leap in to deny IT without giving evidence. Reminds me of that thread where someone asked how EC disproves IT because they keep hearing that without explanation. Not one single answer explained how EC disproves IT, but assured the OP that it does.

It's true, the whole point of my asking for quotes was to show that they can be taken either way. Even the "most damning" one from Walters about "making the stuff there more shiny to stop people believing in something that wasn't intended" can be taken either way, as why add more in which helps IT?

[Ledgend1221]

I think we should celebrate when this gets to 2186 pages long.

[Riot86]

RavenEyry wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Over night I thought of something else for the 'dream starts earlier' or 'warped perception' ideas, y'know about London looking like Vancouver crossed with Palavan's moon. The red phone boxes. Yes really. Today there are hardly any of those in London, the ones that are there are preserved because tourists expect to see them, yet not one but several survive the reaper invasion. When I saw them the first time I half expected to see a scots guard and a couple of beefeaters among Anderson's soldiers, thinking Bioware had made the same assumptions as tourists. But last night I thought 'has Shepard ever been to London before?'. Probably not, and they're seeing the phone boxes because they expect to see them in London.

Reposting this now some different people are on. (No, it's not supposed to inspire Doctor Who talk.)

When talking to with Kaidan in the FOB, Kaiden ends the conversation by stating that he never was in London before. And though Shepards answer cannot be heard (at least in my game), according to the subtitles he responds by saying "Yeah". There are several instances in the game, where some spoken lines are cut off, so not hearing this is most likely just a glitch.

And in this context this "Yeah" sounds like Shep just let's Kaiden know that he wasn't in London before either: "Yeah...me, too"

Modifié par Riot86, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:33 .

[Turbo_J]

RavenEyry wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

@Raven

I'm enjoying reading the quotes the literalists are giving (when they aren't abusing me) - are you ?

Most quotes can go either way. What's notable is so many people leap in to deny IT without giving evidence. Reminds me of that thread where someone asked how EC disproves IT because they keep hearing that without explanation. Not one single answer explained how EC disproves IT, but assured the OP that it does.

Some parts of BSN = Citadel.

'Ah, yes. Indoctrination and Shepard's internal struggle against it. We have dismissed that claim.'