SubAstris wrote...
CoolioThane wrote...
Harbinger doesn't say "serve us" but he definitely says something, Sub
I thought this was not the case, as told by BW themselves
Reaper noises are communication. That's something
Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!
Débuté par
byne
, mai 14 2012 05:06
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#51901
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:05
CoolioThane
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Reaper noises are communication. That's something
Retour en haut
#51902
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:08
estebanus
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Speculations!MaximizedAction wrote...
estebanus wrote...
No he doesn't. Chris Priestly confirmed it. He said he extra checked in with the sound team, and they said that it was just a coincidental sound.CoolioThane wrote...
Harbinger doesn't say "serve us" but he definitely says something, Sub
Interestingly, Chris said that Harbinger didn't say anything at that point. Me wonders when he said/says/will say something...
#51903
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:08
FFZero
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estebanus wrote...
So when they extra said it doesn't mean anything, you still believe it means something?Samtheman63 wrote...
harby says something, i dont care what bw audio team say, thats not just a normal reaper sound
At this point it all comes down to whether or not you believe what you hear from Bioware. Personally I take everything they say with a whole mines worth of salt.
If Harby was in fact saying something, they’re not likely to come out and confirm it and say what he was saying, they want to keep the speculations going. Also, when that noise is made, all other background noises go quiet, the only thing you can hear is that Reaper noise. Why draw attention to it if it’s just another random Reaper sound? And why have that noise at all? Why not just have the normal Reaper horn sound like there was before EC.
Modifié par FFZero, 22 juillet 2012 - 11:11 .
#51904
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:10
byne
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Simon_Says wrote...
Because reapers make big honking noises for no reason, right?
It doesn't need to have been a structured sentence, line or even word. But Harbinger made noises, several, when it saw Shepard and deliberately swept the beam to... not kill Shepard apparently. That's one of the reasons I never discussed what Harbinger 'said', because it wasn't important. Unless reapers make noises for no reason (bad diet?), Harbinger communicated something during that scene, and that's important.
Maybe Harby has allergies like the Reaper in this comic.
I forget who made that comic. It was someone in the old thread though.
#51906
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:17
estebanus
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Page 2077... World war III starts...
#51907
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:18
legaldinho
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CoolioThane wrote...
- The Kid is the face of all the people on Earth Shepard couldn’t save
These were the themes of the quotes shown to me - Is there any way that we can argue against these points?
This one's easy: how does the catalyst know what the kid looks and sounds like, and how does he know shep might view him as symbolic of those left behind, has been in his dreams etc?
In other words, how do you escape the fact that someone has access to shepard's mind?
#51908
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:18
byne
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estebanus wrote...
Page 2077... World war III starts...
Also Liara is born.
#51909
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:19
estebanus
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Coincidence? I think not!byne wrote...
estebanus wrote...
Page 2077... World war III starts...
Also Liara is born.
#51910
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:19
MaximizedAction
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estebanus wrote...
Speculations!MaximizedAction wrote...
estebanus wrote...
No he doesn't. Chris Priestly confirmed it. He said he extra checked in with the sound team, and they said that it was just a coincidental sound.CoolioThane wrote...
Harbinger doesn't say "serve us" but he definitely says something, Sub
Interestingly, Chris said that Harbinger didn't say anything at that point. Me wonders when he said/says/will say something...
I know I've already linked this yesterday but after thinking about it: a) it sounds similar to the "serve us"-sound but
why does it sound like a whisper when Harbinger is still quite far away. It now seems to me like a hint that Harbinger is in Shepard's head...like those noises people back in ME1 and ME2 mentioned when Reapers were near.
#51911
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:20
byne
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lol...
I'm bored so I figured I'd solo some bronze on my vanguard.
Started a match and was doin good. Didnt realize till after deactivating two nodes on wave three that I was playing on gold. Thats when the Prime showed up and totally surprised me.
I was wondering why the geth werent dying as easily as they usually do...
I'm bored so I figured I'd solo some bronze on my vanguard.
Started a match and was doin good. Didnt realize till after deactivating two nodes on wave three that I was playing on gold. Thats when the Prime showed up and totally surprised me.
I was wondering why the geth werent dying as easily as they usually do...
#51912
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:20
byne
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estebanus wrote...
Coincidence? I think not!byne wrote...
estebanus wrote...
Page 2077... World war III starts...
Also Liara is born.
The Fallout universe realized it would never have Liara and annihilated themselves.
#51913
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:21
Kulbelbolka
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Hi, guys. Did you already discuss Earth DLC trailer? There is nothing interesting at the first look, but... Isn't it strange that Bioware asked Keith David just to voice-over this trailer? As I know they hire voice-actors not only for two-three phrases, because it's to expensive.
My hope is that they'll make Battle for Earth DLC, It feels like missing link, whole part that was ripped off the game (as you can remember, we can see some battle actions with Shepard and team in Take Earth Back trailer). Maybe we'll get more connection with Anderson. He saw things fighting Reapers so he may have some ideas about them.
My hope is that they'll make Battle for Earth DLC, It feels like missing link, whole part that was ripped off the game (as you can remember, we can see some battle actions with Shepard and team in Take Earth Back trailer). Maybe we'll get more connection with Anderson. He saw things fighting Reapers so he may have some ideas about them.
#51914
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:22
xxclonexx2
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Hey guys anything new or interesting come up?
#51915
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:23
Simon_Says
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Awright. Lets hammer these out of the way.CoolioThane wrote...
These were the themes of the quotes shown to me - Is there any way that we can argue against these points
Except that was an inhalation, not an exhalation. Also the file names are "shepalive". Also why the flipping f*ck would they include this cutscene in only high-EMS destroy scenarios if it doesn't neccesarily mean that Shepard survived?- It could be Shepard taking a last breath before death
So we know what they represent. They didn't explain why they represent those concepts. The child and the dreams are an obvious story arc throughought ME3. Shepard witnesses the boy's death, and agonizes over the losses incurred during the war. Except what does this arc culminate to? Shepard confronts the crux of this arc in the finale, but how exactly does Shepard deal with it? What was the point of showing us this arc in the first place?- The Kid is the face of all the people on Earth Shepard couldn’t save
- The shadows in the dreams are people we’ve lost
Eh? What was this in reference to again?- Walters “want to make stuff there shine, not to reach out to people looking for something that wasn’t intended”
Shepard is not indoctrinated, but Shepard doesn't end the war, hence the council cycle is eradicated and a new one must beat the reapers (maybe). Even an indoctrinated Shepard will end the war, remember. It may not end the reaper threat, but it can end the war. That's why the reapers are trying to indoctrinate Shepard. An indoctrinated Shepard can allow the reapers to reap the cycle over the course of centuries without resistance.- If we choose Refuse, the next cycle use the Crucible - not indoctrination
"Bull****!" So the stream of relativistic molten metal which effortlessly carves buildings and vehicles causes minor burning and a minor puncture when it hits Shepard? When it causes critical mission failures previously?- Wound received by Shepard where he shot Anderson is just a wound from the beam
Like "the Citadel is changing, moving" why aren't we shown this? And the rubble still looks like it came from Earth.- Citadel can be sealed so Shepard could survive the explosion and subsequent exposure
It may not have said anyhting. But for frelling sake it communicated something.- Harbinger doesn't say anything
Yet.- No canon
Modifié par Simon_Says, 22 juillet 2012 - 11:25 .
#51916
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:23
estebanus
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The obvious answer!byne wrote...
estebanus wrote...
Coincidence? I think not!byne wrote...
estebanus wrote...
Page 2077... World war III starts...
Also Liara is born.
The Fallout universe realized it would never have Liara and annihilated themselves.
#51917
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:28
Bill Casey
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Kulbelbolka wrote...
Hi, guys. Did you already discuss Earth DLC trailer? There is nothing interesting at the first look, but... Isn't it strange that Bioware asked Keith David just to voice-over this trailer? As I know they hire voice-actors not only for two-three phrases, because it's to expensive.
My hope is that they'll make Battle for Earth DLC, It feels like missing link, whole part that was ripped off the game (as you can remember, we can see some battle actions with Shepard and team in Take Earth Back trailer). Maybe we'll get more connection with Anderson. He saw things fighting Reapers so he may have some ideas about them.
Much like Hackett, Anderson could brief and debrief you on DLC missions such as Leviathan...
#51918
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:28
estebanus
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Well, I'm off to play some Fallout: New Vegas. See you guys later!
Modifié par estebanus, 22 juillet 2012 - 11:31 .
#51919
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:44
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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From my thread (and THANK YOU to certain ITers for providing the video):
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know some of the forumites have seen (or even made) this video, but it STILL strikes me after all these weeks.
The song is perfect for it though. Here's the lyrics.
"Missa ignis, missa ultoris
(gather the fire, gather vengance - rough translation)
Missa presteris et saltatus (gather the whirlwind dance - rough translation
See the beauty of the world
In a clear vermilion sky
One day, one day
Plant the trees to cut them down
Burn my city to the ground
Count seconds - steal the time
Waste your words to build a rhyme
For all holes in me to fill
I need the newborn lives to...
Pray my true amens
After fire roses dance"
Ha. This is the ending, pretty much.
"See
the beauty of the world" = remember the connections you have made with
organics or even synthetics. This is not a battle between each of them,
but a battle against both uniformity and forced control over others.
"Plant the trees to cut them down" = This is what the Reapers do. It is their purpose, still.
"Burn my city to the ground" = A challenge to the Reapers, that they may estinguish organics, but we will resist.
"Count seconds - to steal the time" = The Reapers control the cycle and the how and when of what organics do
"Waste
your words to build a rhyme" = The Reapers possibly indoctrinate
themselves, and their certainty in themselves is both their strength,
and their weakness. The 'Catalyst' itself is also likely faulty, wasting
its own words and arguments on Shepard. The 'rhyme' isn't even a rhyme,
as much as the Reapers wish to make it so.
"For all holes in me to fill
I need the newborn lives to...
Pray my true amens"
-The
sacrifice of so many millions, billions, trillions of people, just to
prove their point (that co-existance between organics and synthetics is
impossible), to show that they are in the right (using forced
indoctrination), and continue their existance as gods (when they are
actually roaming parasites).
Thanks to whoever made this, as
it is Indoctrination Theory in a nutshell. The Reapers SO BADLY want to
prove to the universe that they are the masters of it. Their experience
is the opposite of the geth now (especially if you forge peace between
them and the quarians), and I'm looking forward to the Leviathan DLC,
which would imo likely show just how misguided the Reapers are/Catalyst
is, and how they are still more akin to the sidequest AI on the Citadel
in ME1, rather than the self-realized geth of ME2-3, and especially the
enlightened EDI of ME3. They'll blow up the universe before even coming
close to truly attempting to come to peace with organics... and the
consequence was likely cascadingly more disasterous with each cycle. By
now, they deserve the 100% designation of abominations, and they simply
will have to be destroyed. Even the Geth and EDI would agree with this.
http://youtu.be/h04w3Y3QDLw?t=9m26s
It's not over.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know some of the forumites have seen (or even made) this video, but it STILL strikes me after all these weeks.
The song is perfect for it though. Here's the lyrics.
"Missa ignis, missa ultoris
(gather the fire, gather vengance - rough translation)
Missa presteris et saltatus (gather the whirlwind dance - rough translation
See the beauty of the world
In a clear vermilion sky
One day, one day
Plant the trees to cut them down
Burn my city to the ground
Count seconds - steal the time
Waste your words to build a rhyme
For all holes in me to fill
I need the newborn lives to...
Pray my true amens
After fire roses dance"
Ha. This is the ending, pretty much.
"See
the beauty of the world" = remember the connections you have made with
organics or even synthetics. This is not a battle between each of them,
but a battle against both uniformity and forced control over others.
"Plant the trees to cut them down" = This is what the Reapers do. It is their purpose, still.
"Burn my city to the ground" = A challenge to the Reapers, that they may estinguish organics, but we will resist.
"Count seconds - to steal the time" = The Reapers control the cycle and the how and when of what organics do
"Waste
your words to build a rhyme" = The Reapers possibly indoctrinate
themselves, and their certainty in themselves is both their strength,
and their weakness. The 'Catalyst' itself is also likely faulty, wasting
its own words and arguments on Shepard. The 'rhyme' isn't even a rhyme,
as much as the Reapers wish to make it so.
"For all holes in me to fill
I need the newborn lives to...
Pray my true amens"
-The
sacrifice of so many millions, billions, trillions of people, just to
prove their point (that co-existance between organics and synthetics is
impossible), to show that they are in the right (using forced
indoctrination), and continue their existance as gods (when they are
actually roaming parasites).
Thanks to whoever made this, as
it is Indoctrination Theory in a nutshell. The Reapers SO BADLY want to
prove to the universe that they are the masters of it. Their experience
is the opposite of the geth now (especially if you forge peace between
them and the quarians), and I'm looking forward to the Leviathan DLC,
which would imo likely show just how misguided the Reapers are/Catalyst
is, and how they are still more akin to the sidequest AI on the Citadel
in ME1, rather than the self-realized geth of ME2-3, and especially the
enlightened EDI of ME3. They'll blow up the universe before even coming
close to truly attempting to come to peace with organics... and the
consequence was likely cascadingly more disasterous with each cycle. By
now, they deserve the 100% designation of abominations, and they simply
will have to be destroyed. Even the Geth and EDI would agree with this.
http://youtu.be/h04w3Y3QDLw?t=9m26s
It's not over.
#51921
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:47
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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I find that really reinforces the messages of the music video.
I think there is still a chance to fall in love with this series. Wow.
And yes, I don't care if they milk DLC money out of me to do it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
End of copy+paste.
There's some fantastic stuff here and NO concrete proof that indoctrination isn't involved, nor that the ending won't be *added on to*. All we have confirmed is that:
-an indoctrination sequence was scrapped
-they won't be *changing* the established ending (tricky wording here... because it depends on what the initially and still intend the ending to be)
-they won't be having stories/DLC for after the 'ending', like Shadow Broker and Arrival are mostly after ME2's ending in 'canon'
There's a hell of a lot of wiggle room for them, and I think intentionally so.
I think there is still a chance to fall in love with this series. Wow.
And yes, I don't care if they milk DLC money out of me to do it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
End of copy+paste.
There's some fantastic stuff here and NO concrete proof that indoctrination isn't involved, nor that the ending won't be *added on to*. All we have confirmed is that:
-an indoctrination sequence was scrapped
-they won't be *changing* the established ending (tricky wording here... because it depends on what the initially and still intend the ending to be)
-they won't be having stories/DLC for after the 'ending', like Shadow Broker and Arrival are mostly after ME2's ending in 'canon'
There's a hell of a lot of wiggle room for them, and I think intentionally so.
#51922
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 22 juillet 2012 - 11:50
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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"The cycle will end" -Catalyst
"The cycle cannot be broken" -Sovereign
^^^ THIS is some major stuff to me, and not just semantics.
Regardless of what Shepard does, he 'ends the Reaper threat' and the 'cycle is ended'. He does NOT *BREAK* the cycle, nor does he DEFEAT the Reapers. Not yet.
Ending the Reaper threat can mean any of the following:
-making everyone slaves to the cycles, and much more easy to Reap (Synthesis)
-becoming the new Catalyst/Harbinger and more 'humanely' Reaping the cycles (Control)
-...or....or....
"The cycle cannot be broken" -Sovereign
^^^ THIS is some major stuff to me, and not just semantics.
Regardless of what Shepard does, he 'ends the Reaper threat' and the 'cycle is ended'. He does NOT *BREAK* the cycle, nor does he DEFEAT the Reapers. Not yet.
Ending the Reaper threat can mean any of the following:
-making everyone slaves to the cycles, and much more easy to Reap (Synthesis)
-becoming the new Catalyst/Harbinger and more 'humanely' Reaping the cycles (Control)
-...or....or....
#51923
Posté 23 juillet 2012 - 12:00
comrade gando
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Simon_Says wrote...
Awright. Lets hammer these out of the way.CoolioThane wrote...
These were the themes of the quotes shown to me - Is there any way that we can argue against these pointsExcept that was an inhalation, not an exhalation. Also the file names are "shepalive". Also why the flipping f*ck would they include this cutscene in only high-EMS destroy scenarios if it doesn't neccesarily mean that Shepard survived?- It could be Shepard taking a last breath before death
So we know what they represent. They didn't explain why they represent those concepts. The child and the dreams are an obvious story arc throughought ME3. Shepard witnesses the boy's death, and agonizes over the losses incurred during the war. Except what does this arc culminate to? Shepard confronts the crux of this arc in the finale, but how exactly does Shepard deal with it? What was the point of showing us this arc in the first place?- The Kid is the face of all the people on Earth Shepard couldn’t save
- The shadows in the dreams are people we’ve lostEh? What was this in reference to again?- Walters “want to make stuff there shine, not to reach out to people looking for something that wasn’t intended”
Shepard is not indoctrinated, but Shepard doesn't end the war, hence the council cycle is eradicated and a new one must beat the reapers (maybe). Even an indoctrinated Shepard will end the war, remember. It may not end the reaper threat, but it can end the war. That's why the reapers are trying to indoctrinate Shepard. An indoctrinated Shepard can allow the reapers to reap the cycle over the course of centuries without resistance.- If we choose Refuse, the next cycle use the Crucible - not indoctrination
"Bull****!" So the stream of relativistic molten metal which effortlessly carves buildings and vehicles causes minor burning and a minor puncture when it hits Shepard? When it causes critical mission failures previously?- Wound received by Shepard where he shot Anderson is just a wound from the beam
Like "the Citadel is changing, moving" why aren't we shown this? And the rubble still looks like it came from Earth.- Citadel can be sealed so Shepard could survive the explosion and subsequent exposure
It may not have said anyhting. But for frelling sake it communicated something.- Harbinger doesn't say anything
Yet.- No canon
I want mac walters to explain why the crosshairs are shaking in priority earth. I can imagine it now "shepard is tired from all the fighting we wanted to convey it to the player *smirk smirk*". nice try mac.
#51924
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Posté 23 juillet 2012 - 12:07
Guest_SwobyJ_*
Guest_SwobyJ_*
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I think Mac Walters alternates between a 'troll' face ("I have to keep misleading them without lying about what is to come!") and 'concerned worry' face ("What if they still don't like it and this was all for nothing?") and 'casual friendly' ("In the end it just our career and our art.") face depending on the time of day.
If there is a reveal to be made, I'm quite sure he's just itching to show it to us.
If there is a reveal to be made, I'm quite sure he's just itching to show it to us.
#51925
Posté 23 juillet 2012 - 12:19
CoolioThane
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Simon, it comes from the Extended Cut interview where walters said that they didn't want to follow what others wanted and go for something that just wasn't intended
