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[MaximizedAction]

Epök wrote...

Evolution is really cool if you want to know more about indoctrination. I wanted to post a screenshot of a conversation between Saren's brother and Jack Harper, but I don't know how to post images on this forum... Anyway, the conversation was about Clark's law, indoctrination and magic.
Now the really strange thing is that Jack Harper is supposed to be a Shepard's doppelganger. The first one met a Reaper artifact and has been indoctrinated since then. He gained the ability to understand their language, worked for the Reapers but thought that Cerberus was a tool to promote humanity. But Cerberus is based around TIM's personality his ideas.
Shepard has been hit by a Prothean artifact, gained the ability to understand their language. Fought the Reapers and his crew became an example of diversity.

This is a very cool analysis! Jack Harper and Shepard give for a perfect example of the antagonist and protagonist!

[Gwyphon]

Epök wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

A quick one: I'm now pretty convinced that that beacon on Eden Prime was not entirely of Prothean origin, or at least concerning that visions Shepard recieved.
How so? I'm reading the Evolution comic which is about TIM's history, and

SPOILER

he got to see that exact same picture of this eclipse, after he got in contact with the artifact on Shanxi. The only difference to Shepard's visions was, he could understand the language in those visions.

Evolution is really cool if you want to know more about indoctrination. I wanted to post a screenshot of a conversation between Saren's brother and Jack Harper, but I don't know how to post images on this forum... Anyway, the conversation was about Clark's law, indoctrination and magic.
Now the really strange thing is that Jack Harper is supposed to be a Shepard's doppelganger. The first one met a Reaper artifact and has been indoctrinated since then. He gained the ability to understand their language, worked for the Reapers but thought that Cerberus was a tool to promote humanity. But Cerberus is based around TIM's personality his ideas.
Shepard has been hit by a Prothean artifact, gained the ability to understand their language. Fought the Reapers and his crew became an example of diversity.

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

[MaximizedAction]

Gwyphon wrote...

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Shepard didn't need to understand Reaper language to understand Harbinger throughout ME2...or did he? *dundunduuun*(Counter-example disproved by Gwyphon.)

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:14 .

[Gwyphon]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Shepard didn't need to understand Reaper language to understand Harbinger throughout ME2...or did he? *dundunduuun*

Well I was under the impression that the Reapers could communicate in english aswell. In ME1 when you're talking to Sovereign's hologram can't your squad mates understand him too? Then all those weird reaper horn noises are actually in their language.

[MaximizedAction]

Gwyphon wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Shepard didn't need to understand Reaper language to understand Harbinger throughout ME2...or did he? *dundunduuun*

Well I was under the impression that the Reapers could communicate in english aswell. In ME1 when you're talking to Sovereign's hologram can't your squad mates understand him too? Then all those weird reaper horn noises are actually in their language.

Good point! I forget about Sovereign in ME1. Ok then, there you have it, Shepard understands Prothean language and TIM/Jack Harper (according to Evolution) understands Reaper language.

But I think your point about Sovereign also shows that TIM wouldn't necessarily need to speak in Reaperish to tell the Reapers about the Citadel -- nevermind whether that actually happened or not.

[lex0r11]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Shepard didn't need to understand Reaper language to understand Harbinger throughout ME2...or did he? *dundunduuun*

In ME1 the crew could understand and comment on Sovereign's speech in Virmire.

Don't actually remember if there is something "reaperish" uttered throughout the games like a secret code no one is supposed to understand.

Modifié par lex0r11, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:17 .

[TSA_383]

byne wrote...

Inception seems to come up all the time in this thread. I should probably see that movie at some point.

Yes. Yes you should.

Z3R0D3A7H wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

So, has anyone actually replaced the catalyst model in the control ending to confirm what his expression really is?
Anybody?

I had the same thought. Actually all that would need to be done is a texture replacement, with the 'real' boy textures. It looks to be the same mesh/model.


** In addition, that scene is not a baked movie, so there should be some animation files associated with it. Perhaps a filename or even applying it to the 'real' boy model would reveal something.

This is correct. In fact the boy's textures are stil there, but the overlay is set to render them invisible.
So someone just needs to repackage that scene without the overlay...

I'd be interested to see how it responds in Synthesis too...

MaximizedAction wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Is it me, or does Harby almost look ethereal in the conduit run? 

If you're viewing him with superstitious awe, I've got bad news for you...

 

[Gwyphon]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Shepard didn't need to understand Reaper language to understand Harbinger throughout ME2...or did he? *dundunduuun*

Well I was under the impression that the Reapers could communicate in english aswell. In ME1 when you're talking to Sovereign's hologram can't your squad mates understand him too? Then all those weird reaper horn noises are actually in their language.

Good point! I forget about Sovereign in ME1. Ok then, there you have it, Shepard understands Prothean language and TIM/Jack Harper (according to Evolution) understands Reaper language.

But I think your point about Sovereign also shows that TIM wouldn't necessarily need to speak in Reaperish to tell the Reapers about the Citadel -- nevermind whether that actually happened or not.

Yeah true. It's never actually clear if it's reaper language or not though, it's just the language that the indoctrinated use which we can only infer it being the Reaper's language.

But one thing always bugged me. When you kill that reaper on teh Quarian home world and it's speaking to you, Tali comes over and doesn't agknowledge the fact that it's speaking to you what so ever.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

lex0r11 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Shepard didn't need to understand Reaper language to understand Harbinger throughout ME2...or did he? *dundunduuun*

In ME1 the crew could understand and comment on Sovereign's speech in Virmire.

Don't actually remember if there is something "reaperish" uttered throughout the games like a secret code noone is supposed to understand.

That was probably translated through whatever device Sovereign was using. Your squadmemembers even start out wondering if it is a VI iterface showing that to them the speech is nothing strange and Sovereign remarks that "you are not Saren" who probably does not understand Reaper speech either.

So either the device producing the holo and speech was translating or Sovereign was just speaking a understandable language.

[Gwyphon]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Shepard didn't need to understand Reaper language to understand Harbinger throughout ME2...or did he? *dundunduuun*

In ME1 the crew could understand and comment on Sovereign's speech in Virmire.

Don't actually remember if there is something "reaperish" uttered throughout the games like a secret code noone is supposed to understand.

That was probably translated through whatever device Sovereign was using. Your squadmemembers even start out wondering if it is a VI iterface showing that to them the speech is nothing strange and Sovereign remarks that "you are not Saren" who probably does not understand Reaper speech either.

So either the device producing the holo and speech was translating or Sovereign was just speaking a understandable language.

SPOILERS:
Actually I think from the comic Saren is shown to understand the language too, and then in the end indirectly touches the device as TIM did (how he learned to understand the language), so Saren msot definately understood the Reaper language. And I don't think speaking via a hologram would change the language you're speaking, I think reapers can just understand all languages and thus speak them.

[Dam0299]

Gwyphon wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Shepard didn't need to understand Reaper language to understand Harbinger throughout ME2...or did he? *dundunduuun*

In ME1 the crew could understand and comment on Sovereign's speech in Virmire.

Don't actually remember if there is something "reaperish" uttered throughout the games like a secret code noone is supposed to understand.

That was probably translated through whatever device Sovereign was using. Your squadmemembers even start out wondering if it is a VI iterface showing that to them the speech is nothing strange and Sovereign remarks that "you are not Saren" who probably does not understand Reaper speech either.

So either the device producing the holo and speech was translating or Sovereign was just speaking a understandable language.

SPOILERS:
Actually I think from the comic Saren is shown to understand the language too, and then in the end indirectly touches the device as TIM did (how he learned to understand the language), so Saren msot definately understood the Reaper language. And I don't think speaking via a hologram would change the language you're speaking, I think reapers can just understand all languages and thus speak them.

Prehaps Sovereign had access to the extranet and simply downloaded a program with all languages on it? 

[Turbo_J]

I know this is 'off current topic' and not IT related, but I have to ask...

I've played through the game from beginning to end only once with the EC. 7 times before the EC up to Cronos (different Shep builds and alignments), with only two of those all the way to the 'Ending'. I decided to take my canon through the journey again for the EC.

When Shepard first enters Liara's office, just after the Glyph orientation, Liara is chatting with Joker. Joker comments on the Council being difficult, perhaps as some petty revenge for Shepard hanging up on them all those years ago. Then Joker subsequently pretends there is comm static when Liara responds "She did what!?"

Has anyone else had that Liara/Joker conversation before? It was always "you've become so cynical since becoming the Shadow Broker, Liara. I like it."

I don't remember ever hearing that other dialog before, and my canon only hung up on them once (after Noveria). I have other Shepard's that have done far worse.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:56 .

[Starbuck8]

Turbo_J wrote...

I know this is 'off current topic' and not IT related, but I have to ask...

I've played through the game from beginning to end only once with the EC. 7 times before the EC up to Cronos (different Shep builds and alignments), with only two of those all the way to the 'Ending'. I decided to take my canon through the journey again for the EC.

When Shepard first enters Liara's office, just after the Glyph orientation, Liara is chatting with Joker. Joker comments on the Council being difficult, perhaps as some petty revenge for Shepard hanging up on them all those years ago. Then Joker subsequently pretends there is comm static when Liara responds "She did what!?"

Has anyone else had that Liara/Joker conversation before? It was always "you've become so cynical since becoming the Shadow Broker, Liara. I like it."

I don't remember ever hearing that other dialog before, and my canon only hung up on them once (after Noveria). I have other Shepard's that have done far worse.

No I haven't heard that convo before. My Shep actually never hung up on the council though, however I still get the comment from Joker about hanging up on them for old time's sake or whatever.

[Vinny]

Gwyphon wrote...

Epök wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

A quick one: I'm now pretty convinced that that beacon on Eden Prime was not entirely of Prothean origin, or at least concerning that visions Shepard recieved.
How so? I'm reading the Evolution comic which is about TIM's history, and

SPOILER

he got to see that exact same picture of this eclipse, after he got in contact with the artifact on Shanxi. The only difference to Shepard's visions was, he could understand the language in those visions.

Evolution is really cool if you want to know more about indoctrination. I wanted to post a screenshot of a conversation between Saren's brother and Jack Harper, but I don't know how to post images on this forum... Anyway, the conversation was about Clark's law, indoctrination and magic.
Now the really strange thing is that Jack Harper is supposed to be a Shepard's doppelganger. The first one met a Reaper artifact and has been indoctrinated since then. He gained the ability to understand their language, worked for the Reapers but thought that Cerberus was a tool to promote humanity. But Cerberus is based around TIM's personality his ideas.
Shepard has been hit by a Prothean artifact, gained the ability to understand their language. Fought the Reapers and his crew became an example of diversity.

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Well, in the comic, once Harper has been in contact with the artifact, he understands Reaper language. But Eva Core asks how he can understand the Asari language when they land on Illium, but it doesn't make sense. Shepard can understand the Asaris form the beginning, and it's the same thing for his crew or anyone else in the games. Maybe it's a mistake from Walters... :s
It becomes Creepy with that conversation on Rannoch. It's the first time he talks with a Reaper face to face and i'm pretty sure that this scene never really happened. The rest of the time, the reapers don't talk because... y'know it's just sound effect.

Also when you read Evolution you understand why Vendetta tells us that every cycle follows the same pattern. The same pics of evolution, the sleeper agents and all that stuff. This cycle seems to be the same until... Shepard. One way or another (IT or not), Shepard changed something ("You altered the variables."). The comic helps us to understand why the Reapers used Harper : they understood that humanity was the key to achieve their goal. And its something we learn during Mordin's loyalty mission, our DNA is more complex than any other race in the galaxy and it would be a perfect species to synthesize the others. 

Modifié par Epök, 23 juillet 2012 - 11:06 .

[Gwyphon]

Epök wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

Epök wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

A quick one: I'm now pretty convinced that that beacon on Eden Prime was not entirely of Prothean origin, or at least concerning that visions Shepard recieved.
How so? I'm reading the Evolution comic which is about TIM's history, and

SPOILER

he got to see that exact same picture of this eclipse, after he got in contact with the artifact on Shanxi. The only difference to Shepard's visions was, he could understand the language in those visions.

Evolution is really cool if you want to know more about indoctrination. I wanted to post a screenshot of a conversation between Saren's brother and Jack Harper, but I don't know how to post images on this forum... Anyway, the conversation was about Clark's law, indoctrination and magic.
Now the really strange thing is that Jack Harper is supposed to be a Shepard's doppelganger. The first one met a Reaper artifact and has been indoctrinated since then. He gained the ability to understand their language, worked for the Reapers but thought that Cerberus was a tool to promote humanity. But Cerberus is based around TIM's personality his ideas.
Shepard has been hit by a Prothean artifact, gained the ability to understand their language. Fought the Reapers and his crew became an example of diversity.

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Well, in the comic, once Harper has been in contact with the artifact, he understands Reaper language. But Eva Core asks how he can understand the Asari language when they land on Illium, but it doesn't make sense. Shepard can understand the Asaris form the beginning, and it's the same thing for his crew or anyone else in the games. Maybe it's a mistake from Walters... :s
It becomes Creepy with that conversation on Rannoch. It's the first time he talks with a Reaper face to face and i'm pretty sure that this scene never really happened. The rest of the time, the reapers don't talk because... y'know it's just sound effect.

Also when you read Evolution you understand why Vendetta tells us that every cycle follows the same pattern. The same pics of evolution, the sleeper agents and all that stuff. This cycle seems to be the same until... Shepard. One way or another (IT or not), Shepard changed something ("You altered the variables."). The comic helps us to understand why the Reapers used Harper : they understood that humanity was the key to achieve their goal. And its something we learn during Mordin's loyalty mission, our DNA is more complex than any other race in the galaxy and it would be a perfect species to synthesize the others. 

Everyone has universal translators which cause them to appear to speak english. It's strange in the comic that Harper understands the asari because the humans only just finished their first contact war and were not given universal translators, but that doesn't work with the Reapers because their language is not known or experienced.

Harper (TIM) was given an understanding of all languages, including Reapers, which is what I believe the Reapers know of language.

[MaximizedAction]

Gwyphon wrote...


Everyone has universal translators which cause them to appear to speak english. It's strange in the comic that Harper understands the asari because the humans only just finished their first contact war and were not given universal translators, but that doesn't work with the Reapers because their language is not known or experienced.

Harper (TIM) was given an understanding of all languages, including Reapers, which is what I believe the Reapers know
of language.

Now here is an interesting (almost) contradiction: Someone who got to understand all aliens (literally) founds a supremacist organisation.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 23 juillet 2012 - 11:17 .

[Gwyphon]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...


Everyone has universal translators which cause them to appear to speak english. It's strange in the comic that Harper understands the asari because the humans only just finished their first contact war and were not given universal translators, but that doesn't work with the Reapers because their language is not known or experienced.

Harper (TIM) was given an understanding of all languages, including Reapers, which is what I believe the Reapers know
of language.

Now here is an interesting (almost) contradiction: Someone who got to understand all aliens (literally) founds a supremacist organisation.

Hehe yeah, well TIM is a little nuts/racist, or speciesist... I did enjoy Evolution and it's a really good read for anyone who enjoys the ME universe, as strange as it was

[Andromidius]

Epök wrote...
The comic helps us to understand why the Reapers used Harper : they understood that humanity was the key to achieve their goal. And its something we learn during Mordin's loyalty mission, our DNA is more complex than any other race in the galaxy and it would be a perfect species to synthesize the others. 

That fits with the concept I (and probably others, I'm sure it was mentioned before I did) came up with that humans were being used as a 'third ingredient' for Reaper construction on the Collector Base.  So basically a Trybrid.

The Protheans weren't suitable for Reaperisation, and the Reapers have possible encountered this problem multiple times - no race was suitable from cycle to cycle.  This could potentially cause them problems via attrition if they ever come across stiff resistance in the future.

So finding humans, and discovering their DNA can be used as a Catalyst () for creating more Reapers they started construction of the Proto-Reaper (we might even assume 'Proto' stands for 'Prototype' in this instance!) and using the Collectors as the test subjects.  While it was destroyed, the Reapers now know its possible, and thus target Earth first to harvest as much genetic material as possible to begin mass Reaper production during this Cycle.

And the best tool to gather up as many humans as possible, as well as cripple the Galaxy's defenses with a suicidal assault?

Shepard.

[Vinny]

Andromidius wrote...

Epök wrote...
The comic helps us to understand why the Reapers used Harper : they understood that humanity was the key to achieve their goal. And its something we learn during Mordin's loyalty mission, our DNA is more complex than any other race in the galaxy and it would be a perfect species to synthesize the others. 

That fits with the concept I (and probably others, I'm sure it was mentioned before I did) came up with that humans were being used as a 'third ingredient' for Reaper construction on the Collector Base.  So basically a Trybrid.

The Protheans weren't suitable for Reaperisation, and the Reapers have possible encountered this problem multiple times - no race was suitable from cycle to cycle.  This could potentially cause them problems via attrition if they ever come across stiff resistance in the future.

So finding humans, and discovering their DNA can be used as a Catalyst () for creating more Reapers they started construction of the Proto-Reaper (we might even assume 'Proto' stands for 'Prototype' in this instance!) and using the Collectors as the test subjects.  While it was destroyed, the Reapers now know its possible, and thus target Earth first to harvest as much genetic material as possible to begin mass Reaper production during this Cycle.

And the best tool to gather up as many humans as possible, as well as cripple the Galaxy's defenses with a suicidal assault?

Shepard.

Yep that's how it also worked for me. IT or not Shepard will be the same who will bring the galaxy to the next step of evolution.
But I don't have that problem, I went for Control.  
Dun Dun Duuuuuuuun 


@Gwyphon : Thanks for the answer. When I read the comic I forgot that. Humanity discovered the existence of other species a few years before and couldn't understand all of them at that time.

[Andromidius]

Epök wrote...

But I don't have that problem, I went for Control.  
Dun Dun Duuuuuuuun 

You monster!

[legaldinho]

MaximizedAction wrote...

A quick one: I'm now pretty convinced that that beacon on Eden Prime was not entirely of Prothean origin, or at least concerning that visions Shepard recieved.
How so? I'm reading the Evolution comic which is about TIM's history, and

SPOILER

he got to see that exact same picture of this eclipse, after he got in contact with the artifact on Shanxi. The only difference to Shepard's visions was, he could understand the language in those visions.

The beacon on Eden Prime is supposed to reveal the location of the secret facility which contains the conduit. On that basis, it cannot originate from the reapers, because the reapers are also looking for the conduit (which, erm, they must have created, but has since moved. Because of a star going nova. Yeah, I know. I just completed ME1, and it is all a bit flimsy).

Nevertheless, the vision of the beacon appears to be sinister, as does the receipt of the cypher, and the second beacon on Virmire. Similarly, the whole asari mind-meld thing is very suspicious seen through the prism of ME3.

Here's what Shiala says before giving Shep the cipher: Try to relax. Slow, deep breaths. Let go of your physical shell.
Reach out to grasp the threads that bind us, one to another. Every
action sends ripples across the galaxy. Every idea must touch another
mind to live. Each emotion must mark another's spirit. We are all
connected. Every living being united in a single glorious existence.
Open yourself to the universe. Embrace eternity!

[smokingotter1]

Andromidius wrote...

Epök wrote...
The comic helps us to understand why the Reapers used Harper : they understood that humanity was the key to achieve their goal. And its something we learn during Mordin's loyalty mission, our DNA is more complex than any other race in the galaxy and it would be a perfect species to synthesize the others. 

That fits with the concept I (and probably others, I'm sure it was mentioned before I did) came up with that humans were being used as a 'third ingredient' for Reaper construction on the Collector Base.  So basically a Trybrid.

The Protheans weren't suitable for Reaperisation, and the Reapers have possible encountered this problem multiple times - no race was suitable from cycle to cycle.  This could potentially cause them problems via attrition if they ever come across stiff resistance in the future.

So finding humans, and discovering their DNA can be used as a Catalyst () for creating more Reapers they started construction of the Proto-Reaper (we might even assume 'Proto' stands for 'Prototype' in this instance!) and using the Collectors as the test subjects.  While it was destroyed, the Reapers now know its possible, and thus target Earth first to harvest as much genetic material as possible to begin mass Reaper production during this Cycle.

And the best tool to gather up as many humans as possible, as well as cripple the Galaxy's defenses with a suicidal assault?

Shepard.

I don't think the reapers would have lost as many reaper vessels if the galaxy did not unite. I saw a few reaper vessel blow up in the allied assualt. You gotta understand each reaper is a nation and it takes a MASSIVE amount of genetic material to create just one reaper. So the loss of even one reaper is a massive loss and almost never happens.

From the way the various races were fighting the reapers a war of attrition would have cost the reapers the least reaper vessel causalties.

From the way the reapers fight wars in cycles: gaining control of the citidel and cutting the races off from each other, it's very very very very very very clear the reapers DO NOT want the galaxy united fighting them and killing off some of their reapers. If that happened every cycle the reapers numbers would eventually go down to one with those losses.

[Rosewind]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I thought TIM could understand REAPER language, where as Shepard only learns Prothean language. This is how TIM (Jack Harper) informs the Reapers of their plans at the end of ME3

Shepard didn't need to understand Reaper language to understand Harbinger throughout ME2...or did he? *dundunduuun*

In ME1 the crew could understand and comment on Sovereign's speech in Virmire.

Don't actually remember if there is something "reaperish" uttered throughout the games like a secret code noone is supposed to understand.

That was probably translated through whatever device Sovereign was using. Your squadmemembers even start out wondering if it is a VI iterface showing that to them the speech is nothing strange and Sovereign remarks that "you are not Saren" who probably does not understand Reaper speech either.

So either the device producing the holo and speech was translating or Sovereign was just speaking a understandable language.

Speaking of VI, I cant rember could all swaud members understand the VI on Ilos? I swore only shepard could but I am half asleep so I have no clue.

[Arian Dynas]

No. Only Shepard could understand Vigil at first. Then Vigil taught itself English and spoke in that so your team could understand.

[Rosewind]

Arian Dynas wrote...

No. Only Shepard could understand Vigil at first. Then Vigil taught itself English and spoke in that so your team could understand.

Ahhhhh Thank you Arian, so would Vendetta be the same though?