55528 réponses à ce sujet

[SubAstris]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm kind of confused by people who don't believe in IT - who accept the fact that somehow - Shepard managed to not come under the effects of indoctrination throughout 3 full games - even though he was exposed plenty of time to the Reapers.

Shepard (except for Arrival, but that's another story) was with Reaper artifacts for relatively short amounts of time, taking extreme precaution to avoid indoctrination and having done what he has done immediatedly being removed from the area where the artifact resided. Compare that to Saren, the archetypal indoctrinated being, who was on Sovereign for a much longer time with no knowledge of the effects of indoctrination until it was too late. Furthermore, if Shepard is suffering from the effects of indoctrination, then one has to answer why none of your squadmates suffer anything.

But the biggest thing IMO is that there isn't sufficient evidence to show he is in fact being indoctrinated, especially in the first two games. If IT was real, it would seem that they only thought of it for the last game.

[MegumiAzusa]

estebanus wrote...

Here you go.
This is the scene where you see the soldiers running down that big road right after the Normandy flees the system.But here's the weird thing in it:

You know there is something called headlights?
It just crashed and there is nothing weird about an object that is grey being lighted at point blank compared to a dark background is quite bright.

btw that is much more depressing

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 24 juillet 2012 - 12:50 .

[v0rt3x22]

SubAstris wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm kind of confused by people who don't believe in IT - who accept the fact that somehow - Shepard managed to not come under the effects of indoctrination throughout 3 full games - even though he was exposed plenty of time to the Reapers.

Shepard (except for Arrival, but that's another story) was with Reaper artifacts for relatively short amounts of time, taking extreme precaution to avoid indoctrination and having done what he has done immediatedly being removed from the area where the artifact resided. Compare that to Saren, the archetypal indoctrinated being, who was on Sovereign for a much longer time with no knowledge of the effects of indoctrination until it was too late. Furthermore, if Shepard is suffering from the effects of indoctrination, then one has to answer why none of your squadmates suffer anything.

But the biggest thing IMO is that there isn't sufficient evidence to show he is in fact being indoctrinated, especially in the first two games. If IT was real, it would seem that they only thought of it for the last game.

Granted - but none of these arguments really debunk IT - even now.
And there's nothing wrong with the idea being brought up in the final game (IMO) - because it makes for an epic plot twist.

[CoolioThane]

Shepard was at very close proximity to Object Rho for two days whilst unconscious. The reapers wanted Shepard alive for some reason...

...Harbinger saying "your mind will be ours" or something...seems pretty indicative of Indoctrination

...why would the Reapers search for Shepard's body?

Arrival and the books/comics are canon by the way

[MegumiAzusa]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm kind of confused by people who don't believe in IT - who accept the fact that somehow - Shepard managed to not come under the effects of indoctrination throughout 3 full games - even though he was exposed plenty of time to the Reapers.

Shepard (except for Arrival, but that's another story) was with Reaper artifacts for relatively short amounts of time, taking extreme precaution to avoid indoctrination and having done what he has done immediatedly being removed from the area where the artifact resided. Compare that to Saren, the archetypal indoctrinated being, who was on Sovereign for a much longer time with no knowledge of the effects of indoctrination until it was too late. Furthermore, if Shepard is suffering from the effects of indoctrination, then one has to answer why none of your squadmates suffer anything.

But the biggest thing IMO is that there isn't sufficient evidence to show he is in fact being indoctrinated, especially in the first two games. If IT was real, it would seem that they only thought of it for the last game.

Granted - but none of these arguments really debunk IT - even now.
And there's nothing wrong with the idea being brought up in the final game (IMO) - because it makes for an epic plot twist.

Objection! And just look at everything on Eden Prime, Indoctrination and how it's experienced is so major there.

[v0rt3x22]

+ I think we're forgetting Project Lazarus and the strange scene where Shepard gets defib'ed when he's through the end portal.

Any number of things could've been done to Shepard during the operation.

Regardless of whether TIM was indoctrinated at THAT time or not - it doesn't make me feel any better.

[v0rt3x22]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm kind of confused by people who don't believe in IT - who accept the fact that somehow - Shepard managed to not come under the effects of indoctrination throughout 3 full games - even though he was exposed plenty of time to the Reapers.

Shepard (except for Arrival, but that's another story) was with Reaper artifacts for relatively short amounts of time, taking extreme precaution to avoid indoctrination and having done what he has done immediatedly being removed from the area where the artifact resided. Compare that to Saren, the archetypal indoctrinated being, who was on Sovereign for a much longer time with no knowledge of the effects of indoctrination until it was too late. Furthermore, if Shepard is suffering from the effects of indoctrination, then one has to answer why none of your squadmates suffer anything.

But the biggest thing IMO is that there isn't sufficient evidence to show he is in fact being indoctrinated, especially in the first two games. If IT was real, it would seem that they only thought of it for the last game.

Granted - but none of these arguments really debunk IT - even now.
And there's nothing wrong with the idea being brought up in the final game (IMO) - because it makes for an epic plot twist.

Objection! And just look at everything on Eden Prime, Indoctrination and how it's experienced is so major there.

Not sure where you're going with this. can you elaborate?

[SubAstris]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm kind of confused by people who don't believe in IT - who accept the fact that somehow - Shepard managed to not come under the effects of indoctrination throughout 3 full games - even though he was exposed plenty of time to the Reapers.

Shepard (except for Arrival, but that's another story) was with Reaper artifacts for relatively short amounts of time, taking extreme precaution to avoid indoctrination and having done what he has done immediatedly being removed from the area where the artifact resided. Compare that to Saren, the archetypal indoctrinated being, who was on Sovereign for a much longer time with no knowledge of the effects of indoctrination until it was too late. Furthermore, if Shepard is suffering from the effects of indoctrination, then one has to answer why none of your squadmates suffer anything.

But the biggest thing IMO is that there isn't sufficient evidence to show he is in fact being indoctrinated, especially in the first two games. If IT was real, it would seem that they only thought of it for the last game.

Granted - but none of these arguments really debunk IT - even now.
And there's nothing wrong with the idea being brought up in the final game (IMO) - because it makes for an epic plot twist.

No, because nothing will debunk IT until BW literally come out and say it (even then it could still be a valid interpretation). It's really just about analysing the likelihood of BW going with it or not

It usually leads to an incoherent, rambling plot which is aimless, which is what we got:D

[MegumiAzusa]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm kind of confused by people who don't believe in IT - who accept the fact that somehow - Shepard managed to not come under the effects of indoctrination throughout 3 full games - even though he was exposed plenty of time to the Reapers.

Shepard (except for Arrival, but that's another story) was with Reaper artifacts for relatively short amounts of time, taking extreme precaution to avoid indoctrination and having done what he has done immediatedly being removed from the area where the artifact resided. Compare that to Saren, the archetypal indoctrinated being, who was on Sovereign for a much longer time with no knowledge of the effects of indoctrination until it was too late. Furthermore, if Shepard is suffering from the effects of indoctrination, then one has to answer why none of your squadmates suffer anything.

But the biggest thing IMO is that there isn't sufficient evidence to show he is in fact being indoctrinated, especially in the first two games. If IT was real, it would seem that they only thought of it for the last game.

Granted - but none of these arguments really debunk IT - even now.
And there's nothing wrong with the idea being brought up in the final game (IMO) - because it makes for an epic plot twist.

Objection! And just look at everything on Eden Prime, Indoctrination and how it's experienced is so major there.

Not sure where you're going with this. can you elaborate?

The voices in the background when you tell her about the vision, it's relatively similar to some of the stranger reaper dream noises.

[RavenEyry]

CoolioThane wrote...

Arrival and the books/comics are canon by the way

I agree but the standard anti_IT objection that Shepard doesn't have to do arrival still stands.

[TSA_383]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Here you go.
This is the scene where you see the soldiers running down that big road right after the Normandy flees the system.But here's the weird thing in it:

You know there is something called headlights?
It just crashed and there is nothing weird about an object that is grey being lighted at point blank compared to a dark background is quite bright.

btw that is much more depressing

People die in Cerberus matches?

v0rt3x22 wrote...

+ I think we're forgetting Project Lazarus and the strange scene where Shepard gets defib'ed when he's through the end portal.

Any number of things could've been done to Shepard during the operation.

Regardless of whether TIM was indoctrinated at THAT time or not - it doesn't make me feel any better.

Okay, how would Shepard have been altered in that operation? Nanites?

Remember that scene with Dr Chakwas where she insists on checking over your implants? I seem to remember that scene seemed very off but I can't remember exactly how it went...

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard was at very close proximity to Object Rho for two days whilst unconscious. The reapers wanted Shepard alive for some reason...

...Harbinger saying "your mind will be ours" or something...seems pretty indicative of Indoctrination

...why would the Reapers search for Shepard's body?

Arrival and the books/comics are canon by the way

That's why I said Arrival was a separate case. It might be canon, although BW have stated there isn't one for the games, but whether Shepard experienced Rho depends on whether the player the DLC. Just as if you don't play LotSB, you don't get to raid the ship. Both times it is shown in game that Shepard didn't do the missions

[v0rt3x22]

TSA_383 wrote...

Okay, how would Shepard have been altered in that operation? Nanites?

Remember that scene with Dr Chakwas where she insists on checking over your implants? I seem to remember that scene seemed very off but I can't remember exactly how it went...

Nanites, implants....with TIM's resources thrown into Lazarus - anything is possible.

And yes - correct - there was a scene with Chakwas - but I can't remember either how it ended.
Might be worth checking YouTube, but I generally think that the implants have been suspeciously ignored from the storyline ever since ME2....

[estebanus]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Here you go.
This is the scene where you see the soldiers running down that big road right after the Normandy flees the system.But here's the weird thing in it:

You know there is something called headlights?
It just crashed and there is nothing weird about an object that is grey being lighted at point blank compared to a dark background is quite bright.

Are we both looking at the same thing here? Because I'm pretty sure that light projected by headlights don't look all swirly.

Modifié par estebanus, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:13 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

TSA_383 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

+ I think we're forgetting Project Lazarus and the strange scene where Shepard gets defib'ed when he's through the end portal.

Any number of things could've been done to Shepard during the operation.

Regardless of whether TIM was indoctrinated at THAT time or not - it doesn't make me feel any better.

Okay, how would Shepard have been altered in that operation? Nanites?

Remember that scene with Dr Chakwas where she insists on checking over your implants? I seem to remember that scene seemed very off but I can't remember exactly how it went...

The ME2 cutscene depciting Shepard beeing reborn shows several several implants beeing added inside him, most seemingly to keep everything in place. And we know Shepard was heavily modified and got strength and toughness beyond a normal human due to those implants as he can use the M-300 Claymore Shotgun without breaking his arm and he went fist to fist with a Yagh.

So Cerberus did do something to him.

Also I seem to recall Miranda mentioning in Mass Effect 3 that she was working with alot of Black Boxes on the Lazarus Project.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:17 .

[Schachmatt123]

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard was at very close proximity to Object Rho for two days whilst unconscious. The reapers wanted Shepard alive for some reason...

...Harbinger saying "your mind will be ours" or something...seems pretty indicative of Indoctrination

...why would the Reapers search for Shepard's body?

Arrival and the books/comics are canon by the way

That's why I said Arrival was a separate case. It might be canon, although BW have stated there isn't one for the games, but whether Shepard experienced Rho depends on whether the player the DLC. Just as if you don't play LotSB, you don't get to raid the ship. Both times it is shown in game that Shepard didn't do the missions

As it's considered canon by both Hudson and Walters, it doesn't matter if someone did play it or not, the consequences apply to all Shepards. You know, you don't have to play the first two games ...

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/1961#13200125

[MegumiAzusa]

estebanus wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Here you go.
This is the scene where you see the soldiers running down that big road right after the Normandy flees the system.But here's the weird thing in it:

You know there is something called headlights?
It just crashed and there is nothing weird about an object that is grey being lighted at point blank compared to a dark background is quite bright.

Are we both looking at the same thing here? Because I'm pretty sure that light projected by headlights don't look all swirly.

Where does it look swirly at all?

[estebanus]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Here you go.
This is the scene where you see the soldiers running down that big road right after the Normandy flees the system.But here's the weird thing in it:

You know there is something called headlights?
It just crashed and there is nothing weird about an object that is grey being lighted at point blank compared to a dark background is quite bright.

Are we both looking at the same thing here? Because I'm pretty sure that light projected by headlights don't look all swirly.

Where does it look swirly at all?

You see that crashed mako? Well, the bright white swirly light there is what I'm talking about. That certainly doesn't look like something projected by headlights to me at least.

Is it possible that it could be a glitch, or maybe a soldier?

[v0rt3x22]

estebanus wrote...

Is it possible that it could be a glitch, or maybe a soldier?

It appears no one reads my posts =P

Yes it is a soldier - he's being lit up by a lamp that's behind the building.

[v0rt3x22]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Where does it look swirly at all?

I think he's refering to the white glow that's marked in the picture - the reason the screenshot was posted here in the first place 

[RavenEyry]

I'm calling graphical glitch on the swirly light. IT still admits there are some glitches remember.

[estebanus]

RavenEyry wrote...

I'm calling graphical glitch on the swirly light. IT still admits there are some glitches remember.

Yeah, I think you're right. I just thought it was interesting to bring up, is all.

Modifié par estebanus, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:27 .

[LtBehemoth]

 

The Perfect Illusion

Thessia, right?


If you want I can make more screenshots of this thing

Edit: Wait, what?

Modifié par LtBehemoth, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:30 .

[v0rt3x22]

LtBehemoth wrote...

Edit: Wait, what?

Yup. Old news. But strong evidence for IT.
(also 2100 pages now <3)

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 24 juillet 2012 - 01:33 .

[TSA_383]

LtBehemoth wrote...

 

The Perfect Illusion

Thessia, right?


If you want I can make more screenshots of this thing

Edit: Wait, what?

Go man go!
This is interesting