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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#52901
smokingotter1

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Brazukka wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

so no new evidence, no new videos? Can you guys point me in a direction at least? I'm interested.


Not sure if this was discussed but the Charon, the relay that humanity discovers might be a reference to Charon from Greek mythology who was a ferryman in Hades. Cerberus is also from Greek mythlogy and guards the underworld.

All this might be a hint towards Dante's "Divine Comedy" in which...




Wow. That is really deep. I didn't even notice the Divine Comedy angle and I've read it twice over.

Also "Dis" came from the Divine Comedy... Leviathan of Dis[/i][i]


There you go, good catch. :happy:

Modifié par smokingotter1, 25 juillet 2012 - 01:16 .


#52902
BatmanTurian

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Brazukka wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

so no new evidence, no new videos? Can you guys point me in a direction at least? I'm interested.


Not sure if this was discussed but the Charon, the relay that humanity discovers might be a reference to Charon from Greek mythology who was a ferryman in Hades. Cerberus is also from Greek mythlogy and guards the underworld.

All this might be a hint towards Dante's "Divine Comedy" in which...


Wow. That is really deep. I didn't even notice the Divine Comedy angle and I've read it twice over.

Also "Dis" came from the Divine Comedy... Leviathan of Dis[/i]


Well, I knew [i]that.


#52903
Simon_Says

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Oh dear, I come back from watching Quantum of Solace and Otter again reaches critical speculation and causes a conjecture meltdown.

Wasn't it basically lore that Cerberus' name was chosen specifically due to the Pluto/Charon terminology already being in place? The Charon relay opened humanity to threats and opportunities of a whole galaxy, and Cerberus would guard the gates or something like that.

But I'm sorry mate, drawing out the Divine Comedy angle after that is... eh. You're looking in the wrong place I feel. Pluto/Charon/Cerberus were all taken from classical mythology. You're probably going to have more luck finding something relevant there than in Italian poetry or botched video game adaptations thereof.

byne wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
I hate to geek out but technically the end of LOST is Jack closing his eyes, book-ending the series since it started with him opening it, revealing Jack was ALWAYS the main protagonist. Whiny, smug, arrogant, waffling, metrosexual, daddy-issues-filled Jack.

I'm possibly the only form of sentient life on earth that's not watched Lost.

I actually havent watched it either. And considering I hear you dont get answers to a lot of the questions, I dont ever plan to, because I hate that kind of stuff.

Never saw it myself either. Don't want to. Don't know what the big deal about it was.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 25 juillet 2012 - 01:30 .


#52904
Bill Casey

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Vigil = Virgil?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 25 juillet 2012 - 01:29 .


#52905
FFZero

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Just a little something I observed a while ago while playing the new London map that was overlooked I think. The falling bits of paper, or whatever they are, aren’t as prevalent in the new map as they are in SP.

Could be, and most likely is nothing, but it seems odd that there’s so much of the stuff in SP and hardy any in MP.

#52906
Simon_Says

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FFZero wrote...

Just a little something I observed a while ago while playing the new London map that was overlooked I think. The falling bits of paper, or whatever they are, aren’t as prevalent in the new map as they are in SP.

Could be, and most likely is nothing, but it seems odd that there’s so much of the stuff in SP and hardy any in MP.

Framerate. Clarity. Atmosphere (more obscured vision/particles == more oppresive/hopeless).

#52907
CoolioThane

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I loved Lost

#52908
Bill Casey

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The planet Farinata is probably a reference to Dante's Inferno...
The Heretic Farinata degli Uberti isn't that well known outside of it...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 25 juillet 2012 - 01:43 .


#52909
paxxton

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CoolioThane wrote...

I loved Lost

Who didn't? Posted Image

#52910
senshi420

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ever since shep sucked vacuum in the beginning of me2 we've been running around in afterlife themed adventures. some of the system names and planet names are really esoteric stuff when you go to their name source. kudo's to the galaxy map guys. :D

a side question, has any information come out about casey and mac, cause it seems they are still under gag order, which is kinda odd considering how they are hailing the EC as a success (at least in the media PR wise), aside from the EC podcast, has there been anything of note from either of them?

#52911
Simon_Says

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senshi420 wrote...

ever since shep sucked vacuum in the beginning of me2 we've been running around in afterlife themed adventures. some of the system names and planet names are really esoteric stuff when you go to their name source. kudo's to the galaxy map guys. :D

Other than the prison ship Purgatory and the club on Omega, I can't recall any missions in ME2 that evoked afterlife themes.

Maybe this is just because I haven't looked hard enough.

#52912
Guest_Flog61_*

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Bill Casey wrote...

Vigil = Virgil?


I doubt they had thought of this when they wrote me1 :/

#52913
senshi420

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Simon_Says wrote...

senshi420 wrote...

ever since shep sucked vacuum in the beginning of me2 we've been running around in afterlife themed adventures. some of the system names and planet names are really esoteric stuff when you go to their name source. kudo's to the galaxy map guys. :D

Other than the prison ship Purgatory and the club on Omega, I can't recall any missions in ME2 that evoked afterlife themes.

Maybe this is just because I haven't looked hard enough.


im not talking about just mission planets, just system names and planetary names. the ones you see when you mine like your OCD and have to drain the galaxy dry of all resources....cause..you know...sometimes you just gotta have it all.....sorry if it came off as i was saying the mission/story planets, i should have clarified.

Modifié par senshi420, 25 juillet 2012 - 02:14 .


#52914
Makrys

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So... nothing at Comic Con. What... exactly are we holding onto here? Are some of you still thinking that Bioware will reveal the IT?

#52915
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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I have to go with Otter here.

While it is rarely overt, there are constant symbols of life/death/afterlife/heavens/hell/saviors/angels/devils, in a way that is VERY very very loosely connected to the Divine Comedies.

I've found on this forum a lot of people seemingly wary to pin any religious meaning to Mass Effect. That's really damn silly for a series that has mythological references up the yin-yang and titles like Shepard, Reapers, Cerberus, Legion, as just some of the most overt.

These are not just meant to 'sound cool'. They're supposed to be symbolic indicators without the requirement of being understood in order to understand the story. Smokingotter just goes the extra mile, just as the Mass Effect writers themselves likely did in their own way.

And yes, the layers of the ending can be compared to Earth, Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven/Paradise.

Mass Effect's whole thing is about turning things on their head though (like the original "Reapers created the Citadel in order to reap organics twist which isn't a twist by now anymore"). The 'demons' of the world (the geth, the criminals, the krogan, etc) are necessary in order to defeat the angels of death (the REAPERS). Shepard in this is a sort of redeemer of organics, whether taken from a messiah or anti-christ, or humanist standpoint.

Is this an EXACT comparison? NO. Stop thinking so. Messiah allegory exists EVERYWHERE, and often just in a tiny fraction of the amount that exists in religious texts. DON'T WORRY. Mass Effect is still not a religious game. In fact, some elements are even opposite of expected Christian norms, etc. Don't sweat it, its a story. (sorry I had to get this out of the way as I've seen the responses before)

#52916
Guest_Flog61_*

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Makrys wrote...

So... nothing at Comic Con. What... exactly are we holding onto here? Are some of you still thinking that Bioware will reveal the IT?

Posted Image

Modifié par Flog61, 25 juillet 2012 - 02:22 .


#52917
Makrys

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Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

So... nothing at Comic Con. What... exactly are we holding onto here? Are some of you still thinking that Bioware will reveal the IT?

*snip*


Did I miss something? Cuz your picture seems like I missed some grand announcement. Please, enlighten me. It was just a question. 

#52918
Guest_Flog61_*

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Makrys wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

So... nothing at Comic Con. What... exactly are we holding onto here? Are some of you still thinking that Bioware will reveal the IT?

*snip*


Did I miss something? Cuz your picture seems like I missed some grand announcement. Please, enlighten me. It was just a question. 


I was merely expressing my distain at the fact that I have to direct someone to the first page of the thread again, because there is plenty of evidence there which you can post and debate with us about, instead of just making comments designed to get us frothing at our mouths^_^

1) No, but we were never expecting anything from comiccon

2) We are holding onto the aforementioned evidence which no-one has had the decency to point out as wrong for us yet,

3) If none of us thought bioware would ever confirm IT then i doubt this thread would still be here

#52919
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Flog61 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Vigil = Virgil?


I doubt they had thought of this when they wrote me1 :/


You need to understand the writer's mind then. EVERYTHING is considered. Writers are symbolism blenders.

www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/literature/divine-comedy-inferno/character-analysis/virgil.html

Is not even remotely like
www.youtube.com/watch
?

There are clear differences, of course, but I wouldn't say anything even close to "The Mass Effect writers had no intention of anything being placed to compare to other works like the Divine Comedies."

It's ALL about the Hero's Journey, and Divine Comedies were classic examples of it. The whole idea behind Indoctrination Theory is that we never got the true concluding acts of the Journey. Shepard is in the middle of his greatest trial yet, and he'll need 'divine inspiriation' (in this case, action on behalf of the player, understanding indoctrination) to finish the fight.

#52920
Makrys

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Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

So... nothing at Comic Con. What... exactly are we holding onto here? Are some of you still thinking that Bioware will reveal the IT?

*snip*


Did I miss something? Cuz your picture seems like I missed some grand announcement. Please, enlighten me. It was just a question. 


I was merely expressing my distain at the fact that I have to direct someone to the first page of the thread again, because there is plenty of evidence there which you can post and debate with us about, instead of just making comments designed to get us frothing at our mouths^_^

1) No, but we were never expecting anything from comiccon

2) We are holding onto the aforementioned evidence which no-one has had the decency to point out as wrong for us yet,

3) If none of us thought bioware would ever confirm IT then i doubt this thread would still be here






Many people did expect something from Comic Con. You read wayyy too much into my post. I simple asked for an update on what we are holding onto.

#52921
byne

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Makrys wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

So... nothing at Comic Con. What... exactly are we holding onto here? Are some of you still thinking that Bioware will reveal the IT?

*snip*


Did I miss something? Cuz your picture seems like I missed some grand announcement. Please, enlighten me. It was just a question. 


I believe he thinks you're one of those trolls that comes in and goes 'Wow, you guys STILL believe in IT?'

He's wrong, unless you've changed stances on IT, though.

#52922
byne

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Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

So... nothing at Comic Con. What... exactly are we holding onto here? Are some of you still thinking that Bioware will reveal the IT?

*snip*


Did I miss something? Cuz your picture seems like I missed some grand announcement. Please, enlighten me. It was just a question. 


I was merely expressing my distain at the fact that I have to direct someone to the first page of the thread again, because there is plenty of evidence there which you can post and debate with us about, instead of just making comments designed to get us frothing at our mouths^_^

1) No, but we were never expecting anything from comiccon

2) We are holding onto the aforementioned evidence which no-one has had the decency to point out as wrong for us yet,

3) If none of us thought bioware would ever confirm IT then i doubt this thread would still be here


You realize he supports IT, right? He's on the page 2000 list and everything

#52923
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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The biggest difference for us is that the 'Heaven' that Shepard reaches is not even close to a real heaven. The Reapers present themselves as gods, even above all other beings that exist, and the Catalyst is either lying, or a total illusion.

A fake paradise mind-state.

#52924
Makrys

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byne wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

So... nothing at Comic Con. What... exactly are we holding onto here? Are some of you still thinking that Bioware will reveal the IT?

*snip*


Did I miss something? Cuz your picture seems like I missed some grand announcement. Please, enlighten me. It was just a question. 


I believe he thinks you're one of those trolls that comes in and goes 'Wow, you guys STILL believe in IT?'

He's wrong, unless you've changed stances on IT, though.


Nope. Not changed. Just pissed at Bioware. Taken a month leave from the forums because of it, and I decided to come back and see what you guys are still holding onto, because frankly, things don't seem good at all. And it seems Bioware did indeed intend the shi* of an ending we got. So... I'm curious if there's anything new that we have to give us hope. Otherwise, it seems like nothing more than an awesome alt-interpretation. I don't see Bioware pulling off any brilliant twist/reveal at this point.

Of course, this is one thing I'd love to be proven wrong about.

#52925
Guest_Flog61_*

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byne wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

So... nothing at Comic Con. What... exactly are we holding onto here? Are some of you still thinking that Bioware will reveal the IT?

*snip*


Did I miss something? Cuz your picture seems like I missed some grand announcement. Please, enlighten me. It was just a question. 


I was merely expressing my distain at the fact that I have to direct someone to the first page of the thread again, because there is plenty of evidence there which you can post and debate with us about, instead of just making comments designed to get us frothing at our mouths^_^

1) No, but we were never expecting anything from comiccon

2) We are holding onto the aforementioned evidence which no-one has had the decency to point out as wrong for us yet,

3) If none of us thought bioware would ever confirm IT then i doubt this thread would still be here


You realize he supports IT, right? He's on the page 2000 list and everything

Posted Image
Oh, by the Goddess, how could I be so dense!

Modifié par Flog61, 25 juillet 2012 - 02:38 .