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[blooregard]

HellishFiend wrote...

blooregard wrote...



The thing I didn't understand is why kill Shepard? they could have boarded the Normandy and released seeker swarms and just take everyone. Instead they shoot down the Normandy and don't even bother with survivors or looking for Shepard's remains. If they wanted him so bad why have the Shadow Broker look for him

Are you implying the Lazarus project itself was a Reaper plot, or just that those events are poorly explained/written?

I'll find you my tin foil hat rant that explains the events of ME2 where the machinations of some crazy elaborate Reaper scheme.

[HellishFiend]

*snip*

Modifié par HellishFiend, 24 mai 2012 - 12:34 .

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Yes, and they all probably got captured and got indoctrinated. That's only speculation. But plausible judging from Liara's eyes on Illium.

Wat.

Oh, you know, that creepy look at her face.

She never had a creepy look on her face for me.

Maybe not creepy, maybe crazy. Anyway, funny. Could that be a face of an indoctrinated Liara?

Modifié par paxxton, 24 mai 2012 - 12:37 .

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Here is a thought, Anderson states the reapers use the beam to transport people "alive" and dead up to the citadel, firstly, how does Anderson know what the beam is doing and where it's going?, secondly and probably the most important, if the beam is transporting the living, where are they, why are Shepard and Anderson the only ones wandering about up there?

And if they're transporting living people up there, why would it conveniently teleport them close to the Citadel control panel?

Also, why do the doors at the end of the first hall conveniently open for you?

Anderson did say they had recon teams check it all out and they lost good people getting that intel.

As for your question Byne, I say it's convenience for the story.

[HellishFiend]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

There are no differences from the point where you see the Citadel firing from the distance as that is the point where all 3 use the same movie file (End03_LondonRedOutro.bik)

That is not possible. You can plainly see there are differences from watching that youtube video, as well as playing through them yourself.

I can't see any differences in the YT video for any of the red versions.

I must have misread what paxxton claimed he saw, then. I didnt realize this was about differences in the various red endings. 

[masster blaster]

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

There are no differences from the point where you see the Citadel firing from the distance as that is the point where all 3 use the same movie file (End03_LondonRedOutro.bik)

That is not possible. You can plainly see there are differences from watching that youtube video, as well as playing through them yourself. 

And Yes they could beacuse the Conduit the Citidle, Shadow Broker Ship, Collectors base, the Saren Suicide part with the Illusive Man, the Contol pad of the Illusive mans base, the Reaper menchaning part at the end once in the citidle,and the Normandy destruction at the end of ME3 all of thast happened in ME1 ands ME2 and are now being used to manipulate Shepard of his familier surroundings.

Modifié par masster blaster, 24 mai 2012 - 12:38 .

[blooregard]

blooregard wrote...

I think I may have thought something up...its kinda IT related but it mostly explains the Collector's interest in Shepard and why Cerberus revived him and all that fun stuff (this will mostly be grasping at straws and wild speculation but I think I came up with something good and could use your opinions)

As a warning I may type this in Mordin's voice as I'll be saying alot of stuff and Mordin's voice would make it go faster.


Anyway we have Jack Harper that came into (in)direct contact with the Arca Monolith a Reaper artifact this gave him his eyes this makes it very clear that he's probably indoctrinated to some degree as early on as the first contact war. With very obvious Reaper intervention he creates Cerberus. Skip to ME1.

Shepard stops Saren, stops Sovereign, prevents Reaper invasion, has just about everyone convinced the Reapers are a real threat. Skip to ME2

Normandy attacked Shepard killed Collectors clearly had the upper hand if they had such an interest in him they would have scooped him up right then and there or would have subdued him and captured him, use seeker swarms to disable Normandy crew take crew for experiments keep Shepard for their uses instead destroy Normandy, let crew escape and leave Shepard to die.Skip to ME: Redemption.

Shadow Broker scoops up Shepard and agrees to hand him over to the Collectors. Cerberus contacts Liara and Feron request they get Shepard's body back. TIM states that if the two fail he has other assets that could come into play if need be. Possible other assets are find a way to have the Collectors discreetly pass Shepard's body off to Cerberus. Liara successful recovers Shepard's body Lazarus project begins. Two years later

Shepard is revived awoken in a facility run by a known terrorist organization. Shepard speaks to illusive man and is told the Collectors are abducting colonists and manages to rope Shepard in with a noble cause eventual truth that the Collectors are Reaper pawn solidifies Shepard's cooperation. We know from ME3 that TIM wanted "sympathetic faces" with Shepard instead of all Cerberus operatives.

These people were 10/12 times outside Cerberus people he knew he could rely on more so then Cerberus Jacob was an alliance soldier and can relate with Shepard on a level and Miranda was there to uphold the illusion of it still being a Cerberus operation. TIM gets in touch with Chakwas, Joker, Daniels and Donnley as well as puts Kelly on board this gives Shepard the illusion that Cerberus is genuinely looking out for the good of humanity and could possibly be trusted.

Likely "real" goal for TIM would have been to get revive Shepard. While working for a terrorist organization his reputation would be more intact then if he were revived by the Collectors or just so happened to show up on the Citadel after 2 years and claim that he survived what many saw him die in. Eventually TIM/Reaper intentions would come into play. Shepard would be killed/captured by Collectors and subjected to some form of indoctrination. People still willing to trust Shepard as he's fighting to save human colonies eventually wins their trust and ultimately brings the galaxy to ruin as he is ultimately the only one who can lead the fight to defeat the Reapers indoctrinating him would prove fatal to his cycle. This would explain why TIM wants him to fight the Collectors and sends him to the Collector Cruiser, the derelict Reaper, and the Collector base all possible attempts to get him killed, captured, and/or indoctrinated the success of this is in question but for the sake of my beliefs and this thread they may be successful. Secondary goal likely would have been Shepard sparing Collector base allowing Cerberus to study/complete the Human-Reaper all in the name of "Humanity". With a bonus of possibly having Shepard lost forever in the galactic core this would have meant that he was out of the game for good as the Collectors would have been too dead to revive him and Cerberus probably wouldn't have had the interest/time to revive him again as they would have already had the Human-Reaper and Shepard's usefulness to the Reapers would have been an acceptable loss.

Ultimate outcome of this is Shepard (possibly) destroys Collector base, leaves Cerberus and survives all attempts the Collectors/Reapers had to kill/capture/indoctrinate him. However due to prolonged exposure to Reaper artifacts indoctrination is still a viable option for the Reapers especially now as he's essentially been put in charge of the entire galaxy's military strength. Especially when he reaches Earth at the end of the game were he to fall to indoctrination his cycle would have fallen within a century as the largest portion of their military would have been wiped out in Sol.


tl;dr ME2's entire plot were the machinations of a crazy elaborate Reaper scheme to bring Shepard to their side or at least remove him from the picture. This was all just illuminati conspiracy theorist levels of "connect the dots" but it makes sense of alot of the events in the second and third game and if this is the case it validates the IT as a continuation of that scheme

Bump just to be read by those that weren't on at 3 in the morning.

[byne]

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Yes, and they all probably got captured and got indoctrinated. That's only speculation. But plausible judging from Liara's eyes on Illium.

Wat.

Oh, you know, that creepy look at her face.

She never had a creepy look on her face for me.

Maybe not creepy, maybe crazy. Anyway, funny.

*snip*

Fairly sure thats just a fault of ME2's facial expressions in general, and not something specifically put in to make you think something's going on.

Hell, look at the cab driver from this post in the old Adventures of Ugly Shepard thread.

Take enough screenshots and you can make any character look weird.

[MegumiAzusa]

HellishFiend wrote...

*snip*

The end sequence is:
End03_LondonIntro
then forks into the colors: End03_London[Blue/Green/Red]
then forks into differences: End03_London[Blue/Green/Red][Vap/Bad/Good]
then that fork joins into: End03_London[Blue/Green/Red]Outro

[HellishFiend]

blooregard wrote...

*snip*

Ah yes, that post, I have dismissed th-*is shot*

[HellishFiend]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

*snip*

The end sequence is:
End03_LondonIntro
then forks into the colors: End03_London[Blue/Green/Red]
then forks into differences: End03_London[Blue/Green/Red][Vap/Bad/Good]
then that fork joins into: End03_London[Blue/Green/Red]Outro

Yeah, I get that. We were just apparently discussing two different things. 

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Yes, and they all probably got captured and got indoctrinated. That's only speculation. But plausible judging from Liara's eyes on Illium.

Wat.

Oh, you know, that creepy look at her face.

She never had a creepy look on her face for me.

Maybe not creepy, maybe crazy. Anyway, funny.

*snip*

Fairly sure thats just a fault of ME2's facial expressions in general, and not something specifically put in to make you think something's going on.

Hell, look at the cab driver from this post in the old Adventures of Ugly Shepard thread.

Take enough screenshots and you can make any character look weird.

I saw...I don't know what I saw.  But I couldn't stop laughing. And it can't be unseen.

Modifié par paxxton, 24 mai 2012 - 12:43 .

[blooregard]

HellishFiend wrote...

blooregard wrote...

*snip*

Ah yes, that post, I have dismissed th-*is shot*

Thats what we get if BW goes with IT. ME2 was a crazy elaborate Reaper scheme.

[masster blaster]

Why is it so hard for some of you to realize at the end of the game when Shepard is knocked out just like in the arrival all of the senary was what Shepard encountered and lived through during his/her experience and are now being used against him/her at the end of the game. Also the Repears are the once who builded the Relays and the Citidle so the God Child is lying to you.

[byne]

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...


Fairly sure thats just a fault of ME2's facial expressions in general, and not something specifically put in to make you think something's going on.

Hell, look at the cab driver from this post in the old Adventures of Ugly Shepard thread.

Take enough screenshots and you can make any character look weird.

I saw...I don't know what I saw.  But I couldn't stop laughing.

Ugly Shepard is hilarious.

Someone made youtube videos about the story of Ugly Shepard.

Here's part 1 if you're interested.

[balance5050]

masster blaster wrote...

Why is it so hard for some of you to realize at the end of the game when Shepard is knocked out just like in the arrival all of the senary was what Shepard encountered and lived through during his/her experience and are now being used against him/her at the end of the game. Also the Repears are the once who builded the Relays and the Citidle so the God Child is lying to you.

You're mainly preaching to the choir...

[masster blaster]

Let's all hope that we can give the Child the finger and take off with the space ship that is behind ed Shepard and just leave the child there and call all ships to destroy the citidle and keep fighting the Reapers.

[DJBare]

HellishFiend wrote...
I forgot to add:

But how does IT answer those questions, for that matter? Do we assume Anderson is undergoing indoctrination, or that the events in London are not actually taking place in reality?

I believe the events in London are real but tainted by indoctrination, the wavey camera gives a sense that not all is as it seems.
As for Anderson, I think he is indoctrinated, the sly sideways look he gives Shepard in the vehicle is no graphics glitch in my opinion, it's deliberate, a way to tell the player something is not right, especially since he had already told Shepard he was born in London during the holographic conversation, it's like he was trying to convince Shepard with some familiar knowledge, the odd part is Shepard states "Really?" when s/he already knew this from the holo conversation.

[HellishFiend]

blooregard wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

blooregard wrote...

*snip*

Ah yes, that post, I have dismissed th-*is shot*

Thats what we get if BW goes with IT. ME2 was a crazy elaborate Reaper scheme.

Quite possible. 

[masster blaster]

balance5050 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Why is it so hard for some of you to realize at the end of the game when Shepard is knocked out just like in the arrival all of the senary was what Shepard encountered and lived through during his/her experience and are now being used against him/her at the end of the game. Also the Repears are the once who builded the Relays and the Citidle so the God Child is lying to you.

You're mainly preaching to the choir...

No I am not if you pay attenction you can see similarites of all the stuff you encontered and are now being used to Indoctrinat Shepard and the Normandy sence can be the encounter with the Collectors and it's destrucion. And Really why would the REPEARS build a Conduit that can take anybody to the Citidle just like in ME1 Illos, and the Citidle Contorol system Me1 and is now being used again to open the arms, only this time they used the Illusive man's base to give it a new cover insted of te Councilers Chambers.

Modifié par masster blaster, 24 mai 2012 - 12:54 .

[Bill Casey]

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheCorruptible

Hate to put the spotlight on Liara for a minute, but she is glum, withdrawn, and there's this little gem...

Click - You're not the illusive man

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
I forgot to add:

But how does IT answer those questions, for that matter? Do we assume Anderson is undergoing indoctrination, or that the events in London are not actually taking place in reality?

I believe the events in London are real but tainted by indoctrination, the wavey camera gives a sense that not all is as it seems.
As for Anderson, I think he is indoctrinated, the sly sideways look he gives Shepard in the vehicle is no graphics glitch in my opinion, it's deliberate, a way to tell the player something is not right, especially since he had already told Shepard he was born in London during the holographic conversation, it's like he was trying to convince Shepard with some familiar knowledge, the odd part is Shepard states "Really?" when s/he already knew this from the holo conversation.

Interesting. I suppose that's possible. So things like the dream paper scraps falling from the sky are just in his head, and a sign that he is close to entering the final indoctrination process?

[DJBare]

masster blaster wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Why is it so hard for some of you to realize at the end of the game when Shepard is knocked out just like in the arrival all of the senary was what Shepard encountered and lived through during his/her experience and are now being used against him/her at the end of the game. Also the Repears are the once who builded the Relays and the Citidle so the God Child is lying to you.

You're mainly preaching to the choir...

No I am not if you pay attenction you can see similarites of all the stuff you encontered and are now being used to Indoctrinat Shepard and the Normandy sence can be the encounter with the Collectors and it's destrucion. And Really why would the REPEARS build a Conduit that can take anybody to the Citidle just like in ME1 Illos, and the Citidle Contorol system Me1 and is now being used again to open the arms, only this time they used the Illusive man's base to give it a new cover insted of te Cuncilers Chambers.

The bolded phrase means he agrees with you.

[paxxton]

masster blaster wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Why is it so hard for some of you to realize at the end of the game when Shepard is knocked out just like in the arrival all of the senary was what Shepard encountered and lived through during his/her experience and are now being used against him/her at the end of the game. Also the Repears are the once who builded the Relays and the Citidle so the God Child is lying to you.

You're mainly preaching to the choir...

No I am not if you pay attenction you can see similarites of all the stuff you encontered and are now being used to Indoctrinat Shepard and the Normandy sence can be the encounter with the Collectors and it's destrucion. And Really why would the REPEARS build a Conduit that can take anybody to the Citidle just like in ME1 Illos, and the Citidle Contorol system Me1 and is now being used again to open the arms, only this time they used the Illusive man's base to give it a new cover insted of te Councilers Chambers.

I think balance5050 tried to tell you that you're right.

Modifié par paxxton, 24 mai 2012 - 12:57 .

[HellishFiend]

Bill Casey wrote...

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheCorruptible

Hate to put the spotlight on Liara for a minute, but she is glum, withdrawn, and there's this little gem...

Click - You're not the illusive man

Yeah, she is basically implying/admitting that she is a candidate for indoctrination, even if she doesnt realize it.