55528 réponses à ce sujet

[comrade gando]

chidingewe8036 wrote...

Well my Shepard was indoctrinated at the end.......end of story, Bioware and fans that dislike the theory can deny it all they want.

it makes a buttload more sense than what was shown. If that wasn't indoctrination, then bioware must purposefully be trying to torch and run on this franchise. for what purpose though, they're bored of it? they lack the talent to end it? they want to save it from EA by destroying it? who knows. speculations for everyone.

4 1/2 months later.

[Bill Casey]

If you draw a duck, and you meant to draw a chicken, you drew a duck...

[Genetic Destiny]

Massa FX wrote...

Why didn't the prothean VI detect that Shepard was indoctrinated on Thessia and later on Cronos? Why didn't Javik, who has a lifetime experience dealing with indoctrinated friend, crew, and enemies.

Everything else fits IT except this.

I also agree that Shepard should have realised she might be under Reaper influence from Arrival forward. In Arrival she stood next to a Prothean artifact and the black swirly mist came around her. She fell to the floor fighting it. But... damage was done. At the end of Arrival, Hackett asks Shepard how she feels. She says headaches are better or something along those lines.

IIRC, the theory states that Shep isn't indoctrinated, but the reapers are trying to indoctrinate him/her, and the final choice determines whether they succeed. Also, look at Shep's stance on the reapers when on Thessia and Cronos. Shep's only desire at those points in the game is to destroy the reapers, but that mindset can obviously change after talking to the Catalyst. Indoctrinated characters don't want the reapers destroyed.

Also, indoctrination has to reach a certain point.

Modifié par Genetic Destiny, 28 juillet 2012 - 06:07 .

[Bill Casey]

Massa FX wrote...

Why didn't the prothean VI detect that Shepard was indoctrinated on Thessia and later on Cronos? Why didn't Javik, who has a lifetime experience dealing with indoctrinated friend, crew, and enemies.

1. Because Shepard isn't indoctrinated. "Indoctrinated" means brainwashed. The Reapers have altered your belief system. Shepard is being targeted with psychological conditioning designed to brainwash him.

2. We don't don't how indoctrination detection works. We do know it can detect Kai Leng and Saren, who are chalked full of reaper tech. We also know it had limited effectiveness, because Protheans still faced significant issues.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 28 juillet 2012 - 06:11 .

[Arian Dynas]

Genetic Destiny wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I took that survey, and I will most definitely say, it seems VERY weighted against IT.

How so?

Every statement precludes the assumption that you ascribe to a literal/reductionist POV.

[Simon_Says]

Massa FX wrote...

Why didn't the prothean VI detect that Shepard was indoctrinated on Thessia and later on Cronos? Why didn't Javik, who has a lifetime experience dealing with indoctrinated friend, crew, and enemies.

Everything else fits IT except this.

I also agree that Shepard should have realised she might be under Reaper influence from Arrival forward. In Arrival she stood next to a Prothean artifact and the black swirly mist came around her. She fell to the floor fighting it. But... damage was done. At the end of Arrival, Hackett asks Shepard how she feels. She says headaches are better or something along those lines.

>Prothean VIs can detect indoctrination. We don't know how.
>Prothean Crucible effort sabotaged by indoctrinated agents. VIs are not infallible then.
>Vigil detected Saren. Vendetta detected Kai Leng. Both had reaper implants. Obvous sign of indoctrination.
>Shepard was being indoctrinated, but wasn't actually indoctrinated. (i.e. a similar difference to "dying" and "dead")
>Shepard is then very likely under the limit for indoctrination detection.
VIs still fit within IT. Case closed.

Also, Javik had to find and murder his indoctrinated squad. He couldn't see the signs before it was too late. No reason to believe he would detect indoctrination in a person he barely knows, from a species he barely knows.
Javik still fits within IT. Case closed.

The only actual discrepencies I know of are...
>The Crucible's true nature. It's a complete unknown. Even the Catalyst's explanation of it being a giant battery is suspect as it implies that Space Magic is a function of the Citadel, not the Crucible, and thus raises the question why the reapers didn't build a crucible themselves.
>The scenes in space with Hacket/Normandy when the Crucible is 'triggered', and the Normandy scenes that follow. Unlikely to be part of the hallucination. But if they're real, what just happened with the Crucible then? Only possible explanation is that Shepard somehow remotely triggered the Crucible, and although there is precedent that such a thing is possible (Sarenbot, Geth Concensus), it's still a stretch.

The epilogues don't need to be hallucinations, by the way.

>Synthesis shows an indoctrinated future.
>Control shows a cycle under reaper tyranny.
>Reject shows the council cycle destroyed and a new cycle having faced the reapers. We don't know for certain if they were truly succesful or not.
>Destroy shows the reapers defeated and the galaxy rebuilding.

These are all actually consistent with what IT postulates. Indoctrinated Shepard ends the war in the reapers' favour. Rejecting Shepard cannot beat the reapers, so the council cycle gets eliminated. Destroy Shepard either actually finished the fight, or will live to finish the fight. Just because the destroy epilogue didn't specifically show that last fight doesn't mean it didn't/won't happen.

You guys just need to let go of the idea that the story is told in strict chronological progression.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 28 juillet 2012 - 06:39 .

[XanderLav]

Hey, so..... this timer up top. it ends on Tuesday if my calculations are right. It would be very cool is BW releases something on Tuesday. PSN updates on Tuesdays. Anybody knows if previous dlc for ME3 were released on Tuesday or not? It's pretty late ad I'm about to fall asleep. Just thought of it and decided to share with you.

[Gwyphon]

Xander in all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if they did release something, at the very least announced something at the end of this operation. This doesn't mean I'm EXPECTING it. I don't want to get my hopes up. They can only be crushed so many times...

[Massa FX]

Indeed. Thanks for the quick responses. In my newest head cannon, my Shepard struggles against Reaper influence throughout ME3. She never gives into it and is exhausted from the effort to resist. She still chooses destroy because she will never become a Reaper or loose her humanity.

[XanderLav]

Gwyphon, I know that feeling so I'm not hoping for anything either, I just thought that the whole operations seems different, timer, more time to meet the requirements and this missions kinda follow ME3 timeline, this mission being the last one before Shepard returns to Earth.

[JasonSic]

XanderLav wrote...

Hey, so..... this timer up top. it ends on Tuesday if my calculations are right. It would be very cool is BW releases something on Tuesday. PSN updates on Tuesdays. Anybody knows if previous dlc for ME3 were released on Tuesday or not? It's pretty late ad I'm about to fall asleep. Just thought of it and decided to share with you.

Extended Cut - June 26 - Tuesday
Earth - July 17 - Tuesday
Rebellion - May 29 - Tuesday
Resurgence - April 10 - Tuesday
From Ashes - March 6 - Tuesday

EDIT: The timer ends on Monday morning like all the other OPs.

Modifié par JasonSic, 28 juillet 2012 - 06:37 .

[XanderLav]

JasonSic wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

Hey, so..... this timer up top. it ends on Tuesday if my calculations are right. It would be very cool is BW releases something on Tuesday. PSN updates on Tuesdays. Anybody knows if previous dlc for ME3 were released on Tuesday or not? It's pretty late ad I'm about to fall asleep. Just thought of it and decided to share with you.

Extended Cut - June 26 - Tuesday
Earth - July 17 - Tuesday
Rebellion - May 29 - Tuesday
Resurgence - April 10 - Tuesday
From Ashes - March 6 - Tuesday

Well, gotta wait till Tuesday, I'm not hopping for anything but the pattern is there.

[Rosewind]

XanderLav wrote...

Gwyphon, I know that feeling so I'm not hoping for anything either, I just thought that the whole operations seems different, timer, more time to meet the requirements and this missions kinda follow ME3 timeline, this mission being the last one before Shepard returns to Earth.

Think they more organised this time around cause people where complaining about the last missions, not knowing when they start or end apparently the blog contradicted the forum post.

Hell I never knew when a mission was an till this week I just played MP like I always did lol.

[jgibson14352]

JasonSic wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

Hey, so..... this timer up top. it ends on Tuesday if my calculations are right. It would be very cool is BW releases something on Tuesday. PSN updates on Tuesdays. Anybody knows if previous dlc for ME3 were released on Tuesday or not? It's pretty late ad I'm about to fall asleep. Just thought of it and decided to share with you.

Extended Cut - June 26 - Tuesday
Earth - July 17 - Tuesday
Rebellion - May 29 - Tuesday
Resurgence - April 10 - Tuesday
From Ashes - March 6 - Tuesday

EDIT: The timer ends on Monday morning like all the other OPs.

march 6, ME3 release, tuesday

its not a deal at all though, ALL videogame media and most other forms of media release on tuesdays.
ill bet nobody here can find an official video game release date that isnt on a tuesday. dont look too much into that.

[smokingotter1]

Massa FX wrote...

Why didn't the prothean VI detect that Shepard was indoctrinated on Thessia and later on Cronos? Why didn't Javik, who has a lifetime experience dealing with indoctrinated friend, crew, and enemies.

Everything else fits IT except this.

I also agree that Shepard should have realised she might be under Reaper influence from Arrival forward. In Arrival she stood next to a Prothean artifact and the black swirly mist came around her. She fell to the floor fighting it. But... damage was done. At the end of Arrival, Hackett asks Shepard how she feels. She says headaches are better or something along those lines.

Argh... it was not a prothean artifact... Object Rho was a reaper artifact.

(smokingotter runs outside with bullhorn)

Smokingotter: "testing testing* Object Rho is not a prothean artifact, it is a reaper artifact... also what's up with people who play platinum? Do they play ME MP all the time or what? That is all"

[gunslinger_ruiz]

XanderLav wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

Hey, so..... this timer up top. it ends on Tuesday if my calculations are right. It would be very cool is BW releases something on Tuesday. PSN updates on Tuesdays. Anybody knows if previous dlc for ME3 were released on Tuesday or not? It's pretty late ad I'm about to fall asleep. Just thought of it and decided to share with you.

Extended Cut - June 26 - Tuesday
Earth - July 17 - Tuesday
Rebellion - May 29 - Tuesday
Resurgence - April 10 - Tuesday
From Ashes - March 6 - Tuesday

Well, gotta wait till Tuesday, I'm not hopping for anything but the pattern is there.

Generally speaking Tuesdays are new game days/patch days/content update/DLC release days in the video game market. Not centric to Bioware, but if any DLC is coming out you can bet it's going to be on a Tuesday of some month.

[Gwyphon]

jgibson14352 wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

Hey, so..... this timer up top. it ends on Tuesday if my calculations are right. It would be very cool is BW releases something on Tuesday. PSN updates on Tuesdays. Anybody knows if previous dlc for ME3 were released on Tuesday or not? It's pretty late ad I'm about to fall asleep. Just thought of it and decided to share with you.

Extended Cut - June 26 - Tuesday
Earth - July 17 - Tuesday
Rebellion - May 29 - Tuesday
Resurgence - April 10 - Tuesday
From Ashes - March 6 - Tuesday

EDIT: The timer ends on Monday morning like all the other OPs.

march 6, ME3 release, tuesday

its not a deal at all though, ALL videogame media and most other forms of media release on tuesdays.
ill bet nobody here can find an official video game release date that isnt on a tuesday. dont look too much into that.

Wow Doc, this is heavy...

[Arian Dynas]

XanderLav wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

Hey, so..... this timer up top. it ends on Tuesday if my calculations are right. It would be very cool is BW releases something on Tuesday. PSN updates on Tuesdays. Anybody knows if previous dlc for ME3 were released on Tuesday or not? It's pretty late ad I'm about to fall asleep. Just thought of it and decided to share with you.

Extended Cut - June 26 - Tuesday
Earth - July 17 - Tuesday
Rebellion - May 29 - Tuesday
Resurgence - April 10 - Tuesday
From Ashes - March 6 - Tuesday

Well, gotta wait till Tuesday, I'm not hopping for anything but the pattern is there.

Buried in the data. /Martin Sheen

[EpyonX3]

A question from the survey:

"Would the indoctrination theory be a better explanation for the end than the EC? "

What do you guys make of it?

[Turbo_J]

EpyonX3 wrote...

A question from the survey:

"Would the indoctrination theory be a better explanation for the end than the EC? "

What do you guys make of it?

The EC didn't change anything. It gave Shepard ponies and rainbows so they would fall for the Reaper trolling.

That survey felt a little like railroading.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 28 juillet 2012 - 06:50 .

[Turbo_J]

Arian Dynas wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

Hey, so..... this timer up top. it ends on Tuesday if my calculations are right. It would be very cool is BW releases something on Tuesday. PSN updates on Tuesdays. Anybody knows if previous dlc for ME3 were released on Tuesday or not? It's pretty late ad I'm about to fall asleep. Just thought of it and decided to share with you.

Extended Cut - June 26 - Tuesday
Earth - July 17 - Tuesday
Rebellion - May 29 - Tuesday
Resurgence - April 10 - Tuesday
From Ashes - March 6 - Tuesday

Well, gotta wait till Tuesday, I'm not hopping for anything but the pattern is there.

Buried in the data. /Martin Sheen

/Vendetta

/Ali Hillis

[Gwyphon]

EpyonX3 wrote...

A question from the survey:

"Would the indoctrination theory be a better explanation for the end than the EC? "

What do you guys make of it?

I don't like optional surveys. Only the extremists can be bothered actually filling out the survey and so it doesn't represent the lazy people (me included) who assume their opinion or view point will be represented by some one else, which is a large portion of the community.

But yeah having a survey that doesn't actually adress upfront the indoctrination theory then trying to use it as evidence against it seems pretty sly.

Edit: Extremists may be interpreted wrong by people. By extremists I mean people who are outspoken.

Modifié par Gwyphon, 28 juillet 2012 - 06:55 .

[JasonSic]

Spoilers for Dead Space follow...

I just finished playing through Dead Space for the first time tonight. Issac, the character you play as, has hallucinations throughout the entire game. They are very subtle at first, then become more obvious as you near the end. You can hear whispers, children singing, and even see your love while she isn't there in reality.

My point is, the main character in a game hallucinating without the player even being aware of it has been done before, and I bet Bioware could do it a whole lot better.