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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#5451
byne

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masster blaster wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I still want Shepard to be with his/her love interest again but if they keep the ending as it is then they should add a cut scene where Shepard holds his/love interest in his/her arms and cry for a bit as he,or she talks to them as your love interest dies. Then Shepard get' angry and takes on the Reaper forces head on in the Mako ramming over everything in his or her path. Then finds Harby and Tim takes out the Nuke Rocket launcher then plus the trigger down so many times that here is nothing left of Harby and Tim. Then Shepard dies from the Wounds he, or she got inflicted on.


That is far too cliche and straightforward for Bioware. I dont think Bioware has ever done a traditional ending like the one you describe. 


Ya but it would be very dramatic that no matter how hard Shepard tries to save everyone his/her love intrest dies depending on your war assents, and chocies you made. Sorry Miss Spelled.


If Liara died no matter what I did just because Bioware felt it would be dramatic to punish me, I dont think I'd adequately be able to express my anger at them for doing so.

#5452
paxxton

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HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Wish Shepard could be a Cerberus agent in ME3 but it would have made the game to easy unless you have to kill the Normandy/Crew and everyone you ever helped in ME1 and ME2.

He might still have to do it if he ends up being indoctrinated or they are indoctrinated and start to attack him. Same thing Javik had to do to his crewmates.


After ME2, I wanted so bad for them to include a divergent plot line for siding with Cerberus. I felt there was a ton of potential there. But with the direction that the overarching plot took, it wasnt possible. Still, it would be cool if we could get a darkspawn chronicles-esque DLC chapter where we could play our Shepard as a Reaper/Cerberus agent or something. 

That would take almost a second game to develop.

#5453
dmay7

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Not to mention the probability of being knocked out of any type of FTL travel, relay or otherwise, and crash landing on a garden world is so astronomically low that it would literally require calculus to figure out. 


The probability of simply surviving getting knocked out of FTL travel is astronomically low on its own, even without those other factors.

So sayeth the codex:

If the field collapses while the ship is moving at faster-than-light speeds, the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation.


Exactly. The probability is so low that a calculus limit would have to be used to calculate it, because the  value would be so extreme, that it would begin to approach infinity (or zero, to be exact). 


Well, that would explain why it looks like the Normandy  gets snapped 360 degress when it explodes. Explains how it's in one piece on the jungle planet not so much,


Kind of off topic, but that scene is the first that I noticed the Normandy had tail fins.

#5454
gunslinger_ruiz

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While we're on the topic of the Normandy crash here's a repost of some images I did awhile back:

Before:
Posted Image

During:
Posted Image

After:
Posted Image

#5455
masster blaster

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paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Wish Shepard could be a Cerberus agent in ME3 but it would have made the game to easy unless you have to kill the Normandy/Crew and everyone you ever helped in ME1 and ME2.

He might still have to do it if he ends up being indoctrinated or they are indoctrinated and start to attack him. Same thing Javik had to do to his crewmates.


After ME2, I wanted so bad for them to include a divergent plot line for siding with Cerberus. I felt there was a ton of potential there. But with the direction that the overarching plot took, it wasnt possible. Still, it would be cool if we could get a darkspawn chronicles-esque DLC chapter where we could play our Shepard as a Reaper/Cerberus agent or something. 

That would take almost a second game to develop.


Not really in Dragon Age Origions Bioware made Darkspwan Chronicals which I give an A for aswome ness.:)

#5456
blooregard

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

While we're on the topic of the Normandy crash here's a repost of some images I did awhile back:

Before:
*snip*

During:
*snip*

After:
*snip




It looks like the Normandy was pretty much vaporized by getting ripped out of a mass relay.

#5457
Wolfram Tarant

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I don't really post in here because to be honest, I don't have very much to add, but wow, I love you guys. I really, really do. I can't believe how much has been uncovered already.

#5458
dmay7

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Noticed this when replaying ME3. When Shepard sees the boy in the vent, he tells him "I can help you", and the boy replies, "No one can help me".

Pretty deep stuff coming from an 8 year old boy it seems. And why does no one help him on the shuttle, when he was CLEARLY struggling to get up?

#5459
paxxton

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dmay7 wrote...

Noticed this when replaying ME3. When Shepard sees the boy in the vent, he tells him "I can help you", and the boy replies, "No one can help me".

Pretty deep stuff coming from an 8 year old boy it seems. And why does no one help him on the shuttle, when he was CLEARLY struggling to get up?

The boy isn't real from the beginning.

#5460
Rifneno

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Sorry, Arian level wall of text.

byne wrote...

I still say to defeat the bulk of the Reaper forces that are all at Earth, you should just blow up the Sol Relay. Sacrifice the Sol system to save the entire galaxy.

What did Casey Hudson say the theme of ME3 would be? Oh, thats right, "Victory through sacrifice."


Things that don't move faster than light: explosions, batarian colonies.
Things that move much faster than light: Reapers.

Do you see the problem here?

Icinix wrote...

Yeah - although 3 million was a high target anyway. Maybe that set it that high deliberatrely knowing it wouldn't be reached.

Either way - I thought that it was pretty ..convienant.


Agreed. I don't think we were meant to hit the banshee goal. As others said, banshees are much rarer than the other targets we've gotten yet we had a much higher goal. The current goal assumes 16,667 players will do their personal goal. Nevermind the players who do more and there are plenty of those. So for the same number of people to have completed Operation Silencer, they'd have to kill 180 banshees each. That's not "I was in a group that killed 20 banshees today", because that would mean those 20 banshees counted for 80. It'd have to be 180 personal kills each. Uh-uh, that's totally absurd. Granted, there are people who play just to play and would kill banshees but not promote. However, not that many. Especially considering everyone wants commendation packs. The hurricane and the valiant are both just not even sodding fair.

ll PAYASO323 ll wrote...

i understand that there is no way to save the entire fleet, but saving a good portion of the fleet is what i was saying. If the entire fleet is doomed to the sacrifice earth option, then that would also, in a way, render my efforts to unite them pointless. If there is a way to save a fraction of the fleet however, then sacrificing the earth to save the rest would be the way to go. Of course, we don't know if we will actually have to make that choice.


The Reapers may make some mistakes now and again, but if that insanely huge fleet suddenly starts withdrawing like their ass is on fire, then it's not exactly a Scooby-Doo mystery that this star system is about to stop existing. The Reapers (whose FTL is many times faster than anyone else's BTW) will withdraw too.

Not to mention, like I said earlier they can very easily outrun the explosion. We know for a fact that the Protheans could make a star go supernova (or hypernova if it was big enough I guess) when necessary because that's what they did to the Zha'til. If supernova-level explosions were enough to stop the Reapers, they never would've gotten past the Protheans.

Big Bad wrote...

perhaps i just suck at gaming, but i thought the london missions were some of the most intense gameplay i have ever experienced.


Only part I really found intense was guarding the missile truck. Ugh. So. Many. Demonic. Spiders!
"That better be the last mother****ing banshee!"
<A banshee screech is heard in the distance>
"YOU ****ING HATEFUL **** I HOPE YOU **** YOU **** **** ****"

I don't think I was even using words by the time it was over. I was probably just shouting random gibberish that my mind had given meanings which made Two Girls One Cup look like a Disney special. I was annoyed is the gist of this story.

Neighbor kids probably learned some new stuff though. That's always fun.

paxxton wrote...

And you are very much right. It was epic. Protecting the Thanix missles was unforgettable with all those Banshees and Brutes coming in. Without Nova, grenades and mines there was no chance of survival. Posted Image


Brutes are no problem. Brutes are like literalists. They're loud, they smell like that time you had to call the police about that odor coming from your elderly neighbor's who you hadn't seen in a week, and they look ferocious. But they're also like a Robocop villain: easily defeated by any level geometry.

I adamantly refuse to be intimidated by any enemy in a shooter that doesn't have a goddamn ranged attack. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight, reaper. '******.

byne wrote...

Huh, didnt know about that, but I know of a few fights in ME2 you can skip by just running.


Say what you mean, Byne. There's a lot of fights in ME2 you can skip by biotic charging the right mook. :)

Best one though was if you just ran through the entire part of the derelict reaper after you first see legion, then die at the very end, it will reload an autosave at the end of that part, with no enemies alive. Thats how I did that mission on insanity. Activated my infiltrator cloak and just ran past everything.

Also, its not exactly a fight, per se, but if you can get to the door at the end of the hallway on the Mars level in ME3, you can run through the door and skip that room with the moving orange wall.


Oh, that reminds me. Another "attention to detail" thing about "lazy" Bioware. You guys all know that you can see Legion before meeting him? When he shoots that husk from the catwalks and your team complains about the stray sniper. Use a sniper rifle zoom to look up on the catwalks and you can see him up there. It took like 8 months before someone found that. Boy, BW sure is lazy, right?

Pretty sure I could have solo'd the entirety of Insanity on my vanguard had the game allowed me to not bring squadmates.


Well... yeah. Vanguard is broken as holy hell. Biotic charge, double nova during which you're invincible, then your reuse timer for charge is back up and you can start all over again. Unless you screw it up, the enemy has virtually no chance to damage you. Insanity or casual, doesn't matter if you're invincible the entirety of the fight.

Just another way the weight system is idiotic, really. Vanguards wouldn't be so ridiculous if they couldn't enter a loop of damage immune animations. And maybe biotics and engineers had any acceptable weapon loadout besides "Carnifex". Bah. I'm terrified of an ME MMO just because of how godawful they tuned this game.

EpyonX3 wrote...

Yeah but you can do that in most shooters. It's clear that ME level designs are heavily trigger based. I'd rather fight through all of it because the combat is the best it's been.


Normally I'd agree, but the screen shake from the Hades Cannon is just obnoxious. I'm totally using that skip technique next time.

byne wrote...

Tricking a Reaper into helping you is probly the most satisfying thing ever.


Google the word "sex" when you have a spare moment. :)

So, too much to read so I skimmed the last 5 or 10 pages. But I want to say, whoever linked this: a day or two ago, I still have not stopped laughing. Thank you so much

Edit: I need to start proofreading.  Seriously..

Modifié par Rifneno, 24 mai 2012 - 02:52 .


#5461
blooregard

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paxxton wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

Noticed this when replaying ME3. When Shepard sees the boy in the vent, he tells him "I can help you", and the boy replies, "No one can help me".

Pretty deep stuff coming from an 8 year old boy it seems. And why does no one help him on the shuttle, when he was CLEARLY struggling to get up?

The boy isn't real from the beginning.




I prefer the kid was real when he was playing outside. Then he ran into the building that got lasered and survived and that pretty much sealed it that he wasn't real from that point on.

#5462
dmay7

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paxxton wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

Noticed this when replaying ME3. When Shepard sees the boy in the vent, he tells him "I can help you", and the boy replies, "No one can help me".

Pretty deep stuff coming from an 8 year old boy it seems. And why does no one help him on the shuttle, when he was CLEARLY struggling to get up?

The boy isn't real from the beginning.


I've figured, but I'm paying attention to this playthrough for possible IT connections. For example, I noticed that the shadow people don't appear in your dreams until later in the game, an indication that the indoctrination is happening gradually? Implants having Reaper tech, maybe? 

Maybe TIM meant to put Reaper tech in Shepard so that Shepard would become indoctrinated and see things in his perspective, as TIM said it himself that he NEEDS Shepard, not just in 3, but in 2 as well.

#5463
paxxton

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blooregard wrote...

paxxton wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

Noticed this when replaying ME3. When Shepard sees the boy in the vent, he tells him "I can help you", and the boy replies, "No one can help me".

Pretty deep stuff coming from an 8 year old boy it seems. And why does no one help him on the shuttle, when he was CLEARLY struggling to get up?

The boy isn't real from the beginning.




I prefer the kid was real when he was playing outside. Then he ran into the building that got lasered and survived and that pretty much sealed it that he wasn't real from that point on.

Yes, that makes sense.

#5464
Destructorlio

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hoodaticus wrote...

There is no sensible reason for the Normandy to flee without her captain.  That's just retarded.

The only excuse would have to be that the Normandy was not fleeing at all.  It would have to be attacking something.  A very important something.

That, or the whole crew was deep in the throes of the indoctrination process.


Bolded the important bit. Lots of people think the breath is the most important clue to IT, and it certainly is a big honking clue. But to me, the fate of the Normandy is the biggest clue of all. I mean think about it:

1. You have a conversation with your LI about how you'd like to run away from it all and retire on a deserted planet (does anyone have the text from this dialogue so we can analyze it for clues?)
2. You see your LI on earth, and possibly even take them with you on the final run (I know I did).
3. You see the Normandy inexplicably fleeing Earth. (This fact alone might be explained by the EC, but...)
4. You see the Normandy involved in a fairly catastrophic explosion inside a mass relay jump.
5. You see the Normandy crashed on a garden paradise world from your memories. (the fact that it is a world from your previous experiences ties in with the idea that your hallucination is assembled from past experiences. However the fact that Normandy crash landed is not a clue- unlikely crash landings happen in sci-fi all the time).
6. You invariably see your LI get out of the Normandy. 

This is the big clue, folks. There is no way LIara would have left Shepard during his darkest trial. There's just no way. There's no way she'd get out of the Normandy and smile. There's just no way. Unless you were hallucinating a good end for her, because that is what the Reapers wanted you to see- or you wanted to see yourself.

Same for EDI if you chose Synthesis. You obviously chose that because of your sympathy with EDI and the Geth (even though both EDI and the Geth specifically warn you not to compromise). So naturally you'd hallucinate EDI and Joker being together. And, again, your LI usually gets out after EDI, so same deal.

This is a huge clue, especially as BW have said that: 

A. You should be wary of the apparenty contradiction about your LI suddenly being so far away.
B. There will be a way to reunite with your LI in the EC.

IT is the only explanation that could account for both these statements. The literal explanation literally precludes a reunion.

QED, anyone watching the ending should see that as a big old fat old big fat WARNING, THIS IS NOT REAL sign.

Modifié par Destructorlio, 24 mai 2012 - 03:02 .


#5465
Rifneno

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Hmm. Sorry, OT question. Has anyone else had the text background color for the forum change on them? It used to be... I forget what color. Probably gray because that's what it is now. Then it was black for no discernible reason. Okay, whatever. I got used to that. Now it's gray (again?). Anyone have any idea what I screwed up?

#5466
Destructorlio

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masster blaster wrote...

Why can Bioware state that they messed up and let the fans know they will fix it but will keep what is there but mess around with the ending of the ending choices.


When have they ever said they messed up? They said they stand by the ending and are proud of their artistic choices and want everyone to make their own interpretation.

If it was just a screwup, there's nothing to interpret. If IT is true, well... we seem to have interpreted quite a lot.

#5467
blooregard

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dmay7 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

Noticed this when replaying ME3. When Shepard sees the boy in the vent, he tells him "I can help you", and the boy replies, "No one can help me".

Pretty deep stuff coming from an 8 year old boy it seems. And why does no one help him on the shuttle, when he was CLEARLY struggling to get up?

The boy isn't real from the beginning.


I've figured, but I'm paying attention to this playthrough for possible IT connections. For example, I noticed that the shadow people don't appear in your dreams until later in the game, an indication that the indoctrination is happening gradually? Implants having Reaper tech, maybe? 

Maybe TIM meant to put Reaper tech in Shepard so that Shepard would become indoctrinated and see things in his perspective, as TIM said it himself that he NEEDS Shepard, not just in 3, but in 2 as well.





I speculate that indoctrination is controlled by something like object Rho or the "actual" Reaper. sovereign was damn near totally destroyed and thus chances are his indoctrination field was disabled. That made his technology safe to examine and if Shepard does have Reaper tech in him there is a migh chance that its salavaged from Sovereign so it wouldn't be harmful to organics.

As for TIIM saying he "needs" Shepard there are a few things to explain this

ME2: TIM needs Shepard because he's the right man for the job
ME3: "I'm not looking for your approval"
ME3 ending: "I need you to believe"


It goes from manipulation to dismissal to desperation. ME3 ending TIM doesn't make sense.

#5468
paxxton

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Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. Sorry, OT question. Has anyone else had the text background color for the forum change on them? It used to be... I forget what color. Probably gray because that's what it is now. Then it was black for no discernible reason. Okay, whatever. I got used to that. Now it's gray (again?). Anyone have any idea what I screwed up?

Go to Profile > Edit Profile Information > Site Theme.
If that doesn't help, clean your browser's cache and log back to BSN.

#5469
masster blaster

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[quote]Destructorlio wrote...

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

Why can Bioware state that they messed up and let the fans know they will fix it but will keep what is there but mess around with the ending of the ending choices.[/quote]

When have they ever said they messed up? They said they stand by the ending and are proud of their artistic choices and want everyone to make their own interpretation.

If it was just a screwup, there's nothing to interpret. If IT is true, well... we seem to have interpreted quite a lot.[/quote


Ya but they had to rush the ending instead of working more on it, that is why I think they messed up but EA wanted for them to speed production up.

Modifié par masster blaster, 24 mai 2012 - 03:02 .


#5470
Destructorlio

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blooregard wrote...

I prefer the kid was real when he was playing outside. Then he ran into the building that got lasered and survived and that pretty much sealed it that he wasn't real from that point on.


Agreed. Shepard saw the child die for the first time and that opened a crack of survivor's guilt in his mind for the indoctrination process to exploit.

#5471
masster blaster

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You know what would be funny if all of this was a story and a grandfather is telling his grandchild about a legend about a person named Shepard that could have done all of this but they don't know what really happened.So the Grandfather makes up a terrible ending and tells his grandchild I will tell another story about Shepard but in a different way. So have we just been playing a fairytale about Shepard and that he May not have existed at all?

#5472
dmay7

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masster blaster wrote...

You know what would be funny if all of this was a story and a grandfather is telling his grandchild about a legend about a person named Shepard that could have done all of this but they don't know what really happened.So the Grandfather makes up a terrible ending and tells his grandchild I will tell another story about Shepard but in a different way. So have we just been playing a fairytale about Shepard and that he May not have existed at all?


I can't post pics yet...so...

*cue 'GTFO' meme*

#5473
paxxton

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masster blaster wrote...

You know what would be funny if all of this was a story and a grandfather is telling his grandchild about a legend about a person named Shepard that could have done all of this but they don't know what really happened.So the Grandfather makes up a terrible ending and tells his grandchild I will tell another story about Shepard but in a different way. So have we just been playing a fairytale about Shepard and that he May not have existed at all?

That's interesting. All 3 games weren't real. Now BioWare will release the proper trilogy.

#5474
dmay7

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paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

You know what would be funny if all of this was a story and a grandfather is telling his grandchild about a legend about a person named Shepard that could have done all of this but they don't know what really happened.So the Grandfather makes up a terrible ending and tells his grandchild I will tell another story about Shepard but in a different way. So have we just been playing a fairytale about Shepard and that he May not have existed at all?

That's interesting. All 3 games weren't real. Now BioWare will release the proper trilogy.


At least give me the Skyllian Blitz/Akuze DLC before that happens lol.

#5475
masster blaster

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dmay7 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

You know what would be funny if all of this was a story and a grandfather is telling his grandchild about a legend about a person named Shepard that could have done all of this but they don't know what really happened.So the Grandfather makes up a terrible ending and tells his grandchild I will tell another story about Shepard but in a different way. So have we just been playing a fairytale about Shepard and that he May not have existed at all?


I can't post pics yet...so...

*cue 'GTFO' meme*


You do realize I support IT and I am just trying to lighten the mode.