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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#55226
TJBartlemus

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MaximizedAction wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
Notice that Hackett refers to the Citadel boarding party with singular words.  By his accounts only one person got to the Citadel. 

Now I am of the belief that Shepard is actually on the Citadel after being hit by Harbinger's beam, but this dialogue indicates that Shepard is the only person (from the Alliance) to get that far.  So if Anderson is an illusion and TIM is interacting with it, we can thus conclude that TIM is also a hallucination. 


That conclusion only works if two real individuals cannot share a hallucination. Any source or counter-example for why that is impossible?


Well really all we can assume are 3 things. They are there, they are an illusion, or they are sharing a hallucination. The sharing a hallucination I believe is possible. We know from the derelict Reaper that the crew were sharing memories in connection to indoctrination, so I think it's not too much to think hallucinations could be shared as well.

#55227
estebanus

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All right, I'm done. Goodnight. See ya tomorrow, I guess.

I've been disgusted enough for now.

Modifié par estebanus, 30 juillet 2012 - 12:13 .


#55228
BansheeOwnage

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estebanus wrote...

All right, I'm done. Goodnight. See ya tomorrow, I guess.

I've been disgusted enough for now.

Good night.


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#55229
TJBartlemus

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No one find anything interesting or something to counter what I posted in my WNT: Evidence??? Anyone?

http://social.biowar...87/blog/217245/

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 30 juillet 2012 - 12:20 .


#55230
TheConstantOne

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MaximizedAction wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...
Notice that Hackett refers to the Citadel boarding party with singular words.  By his accounts only one person got to the Citadel. 

Now I am of the belief that Shepard is actually on the Citadel after being hit by Harbinger's beam, but this dialogue indicates that Shepard is the only person (from the Alliance) to get that far.  So if Anderson is an illusion and TIM is interacting with it, we can thus conclude that TIM is also a hallucination. 


That conclusion only works if two real individuals cannot share a hallucination. Any source or counter-example for why that is impossible?


Sure, I could give a counter argument.  I'll have to argue it statistically and from the point of view of someone who isn't a neurologist.

First consider that a hallucination could be described as an alteration in one's perception of reality.  Reality here being defined as the average response by a living creature to external stimuli.  The deviations from this average would be pretty small, like some people see dark purple where someone else sees a dark blue color. 

Now since a hallucination is a twist in perception, we can imagine that it is a remarkable deviation from the average of reality.  Remarkable being such that an individual is hearing sounds or seeing images without any corresponding external stimuli triggering these reactions.  Given that such extreme deviations would only be noticed by a particular mental state, and the more sophisticated the hallucination becomes, the more particular a mental state would have to be.  In order for more than one person to share a hallucination, they would have to have excessively similar brain chemistry for an extended period of time.  This is statistically very unlikely and so I would claim that hallucinations are unique to an individual.  However, to others who suffer from hallucinations, suggestions could be planted to give many people a similar hallucination.  Like how a crowd of  people watching a horror flick may be more susceptible to unexpected noises.

Now, to comment on the brain chemistry thing, Reaper indoctrination works by altering brain chemisty.  Reapers could make it possible for people to share illusions.  But I find it hard to believe that the Reapers would go so far as to waste a resource by making him "pick up" an imaginary gun from an imaginary Anderson.  It would seem like a remarkable waste of resources since the Reapers already have Shepard in a weakened state.  Better to keep him on hand and kill Shepard should Shepard begin to use the control console for the correct purpose and leave the convincing to Reaper mind games.

In short, while I can't point to something that says two people can't have the same hallucination, I deem it impossible due to statistical odds (which I won't calculate...if you want to figure out how exactly trillions of synapeses can connect to each other and the liklihood of the relevant synapses linking up in the same way, be my guest Image IPB).  In this situation, even with indoctrination which *would* make sharded hallucinations possible, I believe the Reapers would keep and indoc'ed TIM for a more useful purpose and not throw him away so needlessly

#55231
ZerebusPrime

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The "Holy **** s/he did it." line need not indicate that Hackett knows Shepard him/herself got onto the Citadel. Rather, it could simply be an acknowledgement that Shepard has managed to get someone onto the Citadel from London.

#55232
TSA_383

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Can I just say

I ****ing love arc grenades
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#55233
byne

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TSA_383 wrote...

Can I just say

I ****ing love arc grenades
Image IPB


Arc grenades with the DoT upgrade + homing grenades = tons of tech bursts. Demolishers are awesome.


Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?

#55234
MegumiAzusa

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TSA_383 wrote...

Can I just say

I ****ing love arc grenades
Image IPB

Firebase White
Geth
-_-

#55235
ZerebusPrime

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byne wrote...

Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?


No.  Just an extraction in general.

#55236
KJSync

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

byne wrote...

Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?


No.  Just an extraction in general.

With a least one N7 Character

#55237
jgibson14352

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

byne wrote...

Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?


No.  Just an extraction in general.

i think its just 800,000 players extracted total,  doesnt matter if its full, partial, or lone survivor extractions

edit; @ brazzuka
only for the commendation pack, for allied goal can be any character

Modifié par jgibson14352, 30 juillet 2012 - 01:22 .


#55238
byne

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ZerebusPrime wrote...

byne wrote...

Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?


No.  Just an extraction in general.


It'd be nice if they bothered clarifying these things in the Op announcment pages.

#55239
jgibson14352

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byne wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

byne wrote...

Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?


No.  Just an extraction in general.


It'd be nice if they bothered clarifying these things in the Op announcment pages.

Allied Goal:[/b] Extract 800,000 individual players on any difficulty, with each live member counting toward the goal.

i think thats pretty clear.

#55240
TSA_383

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byne wrote...

Arc grenades with the DoT upgrade + homing grenades = tons of tech bursts. Demolishers are awesome.


Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?

I actually don't have a demolisher, I was piggybacking FFZero's supply pylon using a hot pink and lime green quarian engineer :lol:

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Firebase White
Geth
Image IPB

 
Credit farming :wizard:

jgibson14352 wrote...

byne wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

byne wrote...

Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction? 


No.  Just an extraction in general.


It'd be nice if they bothered clarifying these things in the Op announcment pages.

Allied Goal:[/b] Extract 800,000 individual players on any difficulty, with each live member counting toward the goal.

i think thats pretty clear.

 
Yup, seems pretty easy too so it's probably a "meant to win" sort of goal ;)

#55241
byne

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jgibson14352 wrote...

byne wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

byne wrote...

Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?


No.  Just an extraction in general.


It'd be nice if they bothered clarifying these things in the Op announcment pages.

Allied Goal:[/b] Extract 800,000 individual players on any difficulty, with each live member counting toward the goal.

i think thats pretty clear.


If I had asked about the allied goal, you'd be correct. But seeing as I didnt, you're not.

#55242
FFZero

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TSA_383 wrote...

byne wrote...

Arc grenades with the DoT upgrade + homing grenades = tons of tech bursts. Demolishers are awesome.


Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?

I actually don't have a demolisher, I was piggybacking FFZero's supply pylon using a hot pink and lime green quarian engineer :lol:


So it was you who was nicking all my grenades!

#55243
EpyonX3

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Damn I can't believe I charged by accident into a group of geth just before extraction. Those keys are too close!

#55244
TJBartlemus

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@TSA- I think they have to make at least some of the goals possible. Otherwise why play MP?

#55245
TSA_383

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FFZero wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

byne wrote...

Arc grenades with the DoT upgrade + homing grenades = tons of tech bursts. Demolishers are awesome.


Also: Does the squad goal require a full extraction?

I actually don't have a demolisher, I was piggybacking FFZero's supply pylon using a hot pink and lime green quarian engineer :lol:


So it was you who was nicking all my grenades!

Clearly I made good use of them :lol:

#55246
lex0r11

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FFZero wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

[...]

I actually don't have a demolisher, I was piggybacking FFZero's supply pylon using a hot pink and lime green quarian engineer :lol:


So it was you who was nicking all my grenades!


Yeah, did that to me too. Begged me to stay for another round with my pylon. lulz. :lol:

Okay, enough off-topic.

Modifié par lex0r11, 30 juillet 2012 - 01:45 .


#55247
TSA_383

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TJBartlemus wrote...

@TSA- I think they have to make at least some of the goals possible. Otherwise why play MP?

The point is, the operations are always swayed one way or the other to keep us on the storyline.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if we ever found out if we'd won a meant-to-lose operation or lost a meant-to-win operation :lol:

lex0r11 wrote...

FFZero wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

[...]

I actually don't have a demolisher, I was piggybacking FFZero's supply pylon using a hot pink and lime green quarian engineer [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]


So it was you who was nicking all my grenades! 


Yeah, did that to me too. Begged me to stay for another round with my pylon. lulz. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Okay, enough off-topic.

15 PSPs...
Still no N7 characters for me [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie] :(

Modifié par TSA_383, 30 juillet 2012 - 01:47 .


#55248
FFZero

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TSA_383 wrote...

15 PSPs...
Still no N7 characters for me [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie] :(


That's what you get for stealing everyones grenades :P

#55249
TJBartlemus

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WOW. I think this is an IT low for us. 32 minutes since a post. Please don't be a sign this is the end!!!

#55250
gunslinger_ruiz

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Salute.

9 hours and 27 minutes until Operation: Overwatch succeeds ... or fails. Whether we win or lose, we still have some Reapers to kill. Let's finish this with a bang. Good hunting.