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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#5601
macrocarl

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Did you guys see this Tweet that was posted in 'Caset Hudson Says' tweet thread?
https://twitter.com/...373998828236802
Someone asked, 'Seeing Joker and Garrus at the end of the Destruct ending weirded me out, because he was just with me! Turian Teleportation?'
and Jessica Merizan answered, 'EC should clear that up :)'
Copied the tweet message just in case my link thing didn't work :P

#5602
EpyonX3

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MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Never saw it ingame but in the Citadel where you have the confrontation with the VS and Udina there is a texture used Pigeon_idle and Pigeon_pecking which contains animations of an idle pigeon and a pecking one. And one fly away. Never saw it ingame (only in the prologue at the end of Earth where the Normandy arrives) but since when are there birds on the Citadel? Also the black stuff in the air near the burning shuttle are using the texture of a black bird wing.
Not to mention that again in this scene dream foliage is present.


There are birds present on the Presidium Commons' arch above the stores:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Presidium_Commons
see those small dots on the right of the arch? That 'em! Picking 'n stuff all day long.


Also notice the human numbers. Why would it be ok here but weird on an antenna?

#5603
HellishFiend

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macrocarl wrote...

Did you guys see this Tweet that was posted in 'Caset Hudson Says' tweet thread?
https://twitter.com/...373998828236802
Someone asked, 'Seeing Joker and Garrus at the end of the Destruct ending weirded me out, because he was just with me! Turian Teleportation?'
and Jessica Merizan answered, 'EC should clear that up :)'
Copied the tweet message just in case my link thing didn't work :P


That isnt the first time she's responded to a tweet like that with that exact same reply. Unfortunately it cant really be a hint towards IT though since it works in either context.

#5604
MegumiAzusa

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IsaacShep wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Not to mention that again in this scene dream foliage is present.

Yes, Bioware reuses textures all over their games. What's weird/shocking about it?

Because it could be that it isn't just reused but used on purpose because Sheps reality isn't as real as it should be. There are special plant types for the Presidium, so using dream stuff in addition can be taken as a hint of this mixed reality.

#5605
HellishFiend

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EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Never saw it ingame but in the Citadel where you have the confrontation with the VS and Udina there is a texture used Pigeon_idle and Pigeon_pecking which contains animations of an idle pigeon and a pecking one. And one fly away. Never saw it ingame (only in the prologue at the end of Earth where the Normandy arrives) but since when are there birds on the Citadel? Also the black stuff in the air near the burning shuttle are using the texture of a black bird wing.
Not to mention that again in this scene dream foliage is present.


There are birds present on the Presidium Commons' arch above the stores:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Presidium_Commons
see those small dots on the right of the arch? That 'em! Picking 'n stuff all day long.


Also notice the human numbers. Why would it be ok here but weird on an antenna?


Are you deliberately trying to miss the point? No one ever said it was weird that it was on the antenna. It's weird that the antennae are in a place where supposedly no organic has ever set foot. There are also vents taken straight from the Normandy in the final decision area, tucked away to where you only see them if youre purposefully looking around for things that are "off". And dont you dare try to give me the "bioware was lazy with reusing textures" bit...

#5606
UrgedDuke

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Not to mention that again in this scene dream foliage is present.

Yes, Bioware reuses textures all over their games. What's weird/shocking about it?

Because it could be that it isn't just reused but used on purpose because Sheps reality isn't as real as it should be. There are special plant types for the Presidium, so using dream stuff in addition can be taken as a hint of this mixed reality.


reminds me of Dead Space 2

#5607
delldo

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I guess I need to finish dead space 2...

#5608
Salient Archer

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Conversations with my literalist friends during multiplayer can be very "interesting".

[ME]: so how do you think Shepard survived the destroy ending?
[Literalist friend]: he outran the blast! isn't it obvious?
[ME]: umm... the presidium is about 7 kilometers in diameter and Shep was in the middle!
[LF]: So? Shepard was soldier, He'd be a fast runner!...
[ME]: So Shepard can run three and a half k's in a minute?
[LF]: Yeah that sounds about right. See, mystery solved.
[ME] *face-palm* You're not a runner are you?
[LF]: No, why's that?
[ME]: Oh... no reason.*

*Shepard would have to average a running speed of 216kph to outrun the Presidium explosion.

#5609
HellishFiend

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Salient Archer wrote...

Conversations with my literalist friends during multiplayer can be very "interesting".

[ME]: so how do you think Shepard survived the destroy ending?
[Literalist friend]: he outran the blast! isn't it obvious?
[ME]: umm... the presidium is about 7 kilometers in diameter and Shep was in the middle!
[LF]: So? Shepard was soldier, He'd be a fast runner!...
[ME]: So Shepard can run three and a half k's in a minute?
[LF]: Yeah that sounds about right. See, mystery solved.
[ME] *face-palm* You're not a runner are you?
[LF]: No, why's that?
[ME]: Oh... no reason.*

*Shepard would have to average a running speed of 216kph to outrun the Presidium explosion.


Sounds like he's just joshing with you, to be honest. You didnt hear anything that suspiciously sounded like snickering, did you? :P

#5610
UrgedDuke

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delldo wrote...

I guess I need to finish dead space 2...


its pretty good but i m afraid that DS3 is gonna be bad since visceral isn't making it.... EA strikes again

#5611
Dwailing

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UrgedDuke wrote...

delldo wrote...

I guess I need to finish dead space 2...


its pretty good but i m afraid that DS3 is gonna be bad since visceral isn't making it.... EA strikes again


I'm holding out hope.  Although, I'm actually hopeful about Black Ops II, too, so I might just be crazy. ;)

Modifié par Dwailing, 24 mai 2012 - 02:29 .


#5612
EpyonX3

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HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Never saw it ingame but in the Citadel where you have the confrontation with the VS and Udina there is a texture used Pigeon_idle and Pigeon_pecking which contains animations of an idle pigeon and a pecking one. And one fly away. Never saw it ingame (only in the prologue at the end of Earth where the Normandy arrives) but since when are there birds on the Citadel? Also the black stuff in the air near the burning shuttle are using the texture of a black bird wing.
Not to mention that again in this scene dream foliage is present.


There are birds present on the Presidium Commons' arch above the stores:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Presidium_Commons
see those small dots on the right of the arch? That 'em! Picking 'n stuff all day long.


Also notice the human numbers. Why would it be ok here but weird on an antenna?


Are you deliberately trying to miss the point? No one ever said it was weird that it was on the antenna. It's weird that the antennae are in a place where supposedly no organic has ever set foot. There are also vents taken straight from the Normandy in the final decision area, tucked away to where you only see them if youre purposefully looking around for things that are "off". And dont you dare try to give me the "bioware was lazy with reusing textures" bit...


Part of the reason I don't fully support IT is because everyone seems to have their slight variations to it. I remember having a debate some time ago with someone who was trying to convince me that human writtings on the Citadel were out of place. So forgive me if what I just said doesn't fit another flavor of IT that I wasn't fully aware of.

On that note, the antenna being there makes perfect sense if we assume that the Citadel shifting and changing like Anderson describes and we see for ourselves.

Again, I DO NOT think that bioware is lazy even if they reuse assets. It's very common in game development and it's actually a smart way to manage time. I remember having a discussion with Dante about normandy parts of the Citadel. We were trying to establish the parts that belong to the Citadel and those that belong to the crucible. It's possible that the platform you're standing on is all crucible. This would explain the human and geth(which can also be quarian) parts in that chamber.

#5613
Salient Archer

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HellishFiend wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Conversations with my literalist friends during multiplayer can be very "interesting".

[ME]: so how do you think Shepard survived the destroy ending?
[Literalist friend]: he outran the blast! isn't it obvious?
[ME]: umm... the presidium is about 7 kilometers in diameter and Shep was in the middle!
[LF]: So? Shepard was soldier, He'd be a fast runner!...
[ME]: So Shepard can run three and a half k's in a minute?
[LF]: Yeah that sounds about right. See, mystery solved.
[ME] *face-palm* You're not a runner are you?
[LF]: No, why's that?
[ME]: Oh... no reason.*

*Shepard would have to average a running speed of 216kph to outrun the Presidium explosion.


Sounds like he's just joshing with you, to be honest. You didnt hear anything that suspiciously sounded like snickering, did you? :P


For his sake I really hope he was ... seriously though, It felt like my brain was starting to leak out of my ear.

#5614
Fingertrip

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UrgedDuke wrote...

delldo wrote...

I guess I need to finish dead space 2...


its pretty good but i m afraid that DS3 is gonna be bad since visceral isn't making it.... EA strikes again


I preferred the atmosphere of Dead Space 1 over Dead Space 2. Altho I did really enjoy the fluidity and gameplay of Dead Space 2 far more tho. 

I loved the "comic-style" presentation that set the tone for Dead Space 1. It was so bloody immersive and awesome.

#5615
UrgedDuke

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Dwailing wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

delldo wrote...

I guess I need to finish dead space 2...


its pretty good but i m afraid that DS3 is gonna be bad since visceral isn't making it.... EA strikes again


I'm holding out hope.  Although, I'm actually hopeful about Black Ops II, too, so I might just be crazy. ;)


anyway Isaac's battle with insanity from the marker is like Shepard's struggle with indoc. The marker uses Nicole to trick Isaac to do what it wants just like the Reapers use the little boy. And finally (DS2 spoiler alert) the final battle in DS2 is in Isaac's mind just like in ME

#5616
macrocarl

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HellishFiend wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

Did you guys see this Tweet that was posted in 'Caset Hudson Says' tweet thread?
https://twitter.com/...373998828236802
Someone asked, 'Seeing Joker and Garrus at the end of the Destruct ending weirded me out, because he was just with me! Turian Teleportation?'
and Jessica Merizan answered, 'EC should clear that up :)'
Copied the tweet message just in case my link thing didn't work :P


That isnt the first time she's responded to a tweet like that with that exact same reply. Unfortunately it cant really be a hint towards IT though since it works in either context.


That's true that she's responded to things in this vein. What I think is interesting about these responses, and why I posted that here, is that if she is being on the up and up (I don't see why she wouldn't be) then it's entirely possible that the EC will be neither for nor against IT in the end. Just a thought. :D

#5617
shepskisaac

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Not to mention that again in this scene dream foliage is present.

Yes, Bioware reuses textures all over their games. What's weird/shocking about it?

Because it could be that it isn't just reused but used on purpose because Sheps reality isn't as real as it should be. There are special plant types for the Presidium, so using dream stuff in addition can be taken as a hint of this mixed reality.

So a hint of a mised reality is placed in a game file name that 99% of players won't know about because they will never see the file names?

#5618
Dwailing

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EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Never saw it ingame but in the Citadel where you have the confrontation with the VS and Udina there is a texture used Pigeon_idle and Pigeon_pecking which contains animations of an idle pigeon and a pecking one. And one fly away. Never saw it ingame (only in the prologue at the end of Earth where the Normandy arrives) but since when are there birds on the Citadel? Also the black stuff in the air near the burning shuttle are using the texture of a black bird wing.
Not to mention that again in this scene dream foliage is present.


There are birds present on the Presidium Commons' arch above the stores:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Presidium_Commons
see those small dots on the right of the arch? That 'em! Picking 'n stuff all day long.


Also notice the human numbers. Why would it be ok here but weird on an antenna?


Are you deliberately trying to miss the point? No one ever said it was weird that it was on the antenna. It's weird that the antennae are in a place where supposedly no organic has ever set foot. There are also vents taken straight from the Normandy in the final decision area, tucked away to where you only see them if youre purposefully looking around for things that are "off". And dont you dare try to give me the "bioware was lazy with reusing textures" bit...


Part of the reason I don't fully support IT is because everyone seems to have their slight variations to it. I remember having a debate some time ago with someone who was trying to convince me that human writtings on the Citadel were out of place. So forgive me if what I just said doesn't fit another flavor of IT that I wasn't fully aware of.

On that note, the antenna being there makes perfect sense if we assume that the Citadel shifting and changing like Anderson describes and we see for ourselves.

Again, I DO NOT think that bioware is lazy even if they reuse assets. It's very common in game development and it's actually a smart way to manage time. I remember having a discussion with Dante about normandy parts of the Citadel. We were trying to establish the parts that belong to the Citadel and those that belong to the crucible. It's possible that the platform you're standing on is all crucible. This would explain the human and geth(which can also be quarian) parts in that chamber.


Wait, are you trying to suggest that Shepard was on the CRUCIBLE and not the CITADEL?  'Cause I'm pretty sure that, assuming the endings were real, Shepard was on the Citadel.

#5619
MrStoob

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There are no timescales provided in the closing sections, so stating that Shep wouldn't be able to do X thing in Y time because it was Z distance away is futile.

#5620
HellishFiend

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EpyonX3 wrote...


Part of the reason I don't fully support IT is because everyone seems to have their slight variations to it. I remember having a debate some time ago with someone who was trying to convince me that human writtings on the Citadel were out of place. So forgive me if what I just said doesn't fit another flavor of IT that I wasn't fully aware of.

On that note, the antenna being there makes perfect sense if we assume that the Citadel shifting and changing like Anderson describes and we see for ourselves.

Again, I DO NOT think that bioware is lazy even if they reuse assets. It's very common in game development and it's actually a smart way to manage time. I remember having a discussion with Dante about normandy parts of the Citadel. We were trying to establish the parts that belong to the Citadel and those that belong to the crucible. It's possible that the platform you're standing on is all crucible. This would explain the human and geth(which can also be quarian) parts in that chamber.


In my opinion, your suspension of disbelief is far too lenient if you think those antennae found themselves where they are because of Anderson's wall shifting remark. Honestly if you can suspend your disbelief to that degree, it doesnt surprise me that you dont fully support IT. 

Also, I find it implausible that the platform you're standing on is part of the crucible, since you can use a simple visual inspection of your surroundings to precisely cross reference your location as being on the underside of the Citadel Tower. 

Lastly, the reason there are so many variations in IT is because so much is left up to interpretation. If there was only one possible interpretation with no variations, it would be too straightforward and this whole thing would have already been an open and shut case long ago. It's far more interesting this way.  

#5621
Dwailing

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UrgedDuke wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

delldo wrote...

I guess I need to finish dead space 2...


its pretty good but i m afraid that DS3 is gonna be bad since visceral isn't making it.... EA strikes again


I'm holding out hope.  Although, I'm actually hopeful about Black Ops II, too, so I might just be crazy. ;)


anyway Isaac's battle with insanity from the marker is like Shepard's struggle with indoc. The marker uses Nicole to trick Isaac to do what it wants just like the Reapers use the little boy. And finally (DS2 spoiler alert) the final battle in DS2 is in Isaac's mind just like in ME


I've played DS2, and I see exactly what you're suggesting.  And remember that Dead Space is also an EA game, so there's that, too.  Also, did anyone else feel like BW took some inspiration from the Necromorphs for the Husk designs?  I got that feeling when I was playing.

#5622
estebanus

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Hello again. Anything new?

#5623
RavenEyry

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IsaacShep wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Not to mention that again in this scene dream foliage is present.

Yes, Bioware reuses textures all over their games. What's weird/shocking about it?

Because it could be that it isn't just reused but used on purpose because Sheps reality isn't as real as it should be. There are special plant types for the Presidium, so using dream stuff in addition can be taken as a hint of this mixed reality.

So a hint of a mised reality is placed in a game file name that 99% of players won't know about because they will never see the file names?


It is possible for some hints to be more obvious than others. If every hint was in file names than clearly everyone supporting this interpretation would have to be bonkers, but they're not.

#5624
MaximizedAction

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Salient Archer wrote...

Conversations with my literalist friends during multiplayer can be very "interesting".

[ME]: so how do you think Shepard survived the destroy ending?
[Literalist friend]: he outran the blast! isn't it obvious?
[ME]: umm... the presidium is about 7 kilometers in diameter and Shep was in the middle!
[LF]: So? Shepard was soldier, He'd be a fast runner!...
[ME]: So Shepard can run three and a half k's in a minute?
[LF]: Yeah that sounds about right. See, mystery solved.
[ME] *face-palm* You're not a runner are you?
[LF]: No, why's that?
[ME]: Oh... no reason.*

*Shepard would have to average a running speed of 216kph to outrun the Presidium explosion.


Reads like a typical literalist vs. Indoctrinationist conversation from around here.

#5625
EpyonX3

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Dwailing wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Never saw it ingame but in the Citadel where you have the confrontation with the VS and Udina there is a texture used Pigeon_idle and Pigeon_pecking which contains animations of an idle pigeon and a pecking one. And one fly away. Never saw it ingame (only in the prologue at the end of Earth where the Normandy arrives) but since when are there birds on the Citadel? Also the black stuff in the air near the burning shuttle are using the texture of a black bird wing.
Not to mention that again in this scene dream foliage is present.


There are birds present on the Presidium Commons' arch above the stores:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Presidium_Commons
see those small dots on the right of the arch? That 'em! Picking 'n stuff all day long.


Also notice the human numbers. Why would it be ok here but weird on an antenna?


Are you deliberately trying to miss the point? No one ever said it was weird that it was on the antenna. It's weird that the antennae are in a place where supposedly no organic has ever set foot. There are also vents taken straight from the Normandy in the final decision area, tucked away to where you only see them if youre purposefully looking around for things that are "off". And dont you dare try to give me the "bioware was lazy with reusing textures" bit...


Part of the reason I don't fully support IT is because everyone seems to have their slight variations to it. I remember having a debate some time ago with someone who was trying to convince me that human writtings on the Citadel were out of place. So forgive me if what I just said doesn't fit another flavor of IT that I wasn't fully aware of.

On that note, the antenna being there makes perfect sense if we assume that the Citadel shifting and changing like Anderson describes and we see for ourselves.

Again, I DO NOT think that bioware is lazy even if they reuse assets. It's very common in game development and it's actually a smart way to manage time. I remember having a discussion with Dante about normandy parts of the Citadel. We were trying to establish the parts that belong to the Citadel and those that belong to the crucible. It's possible that the platform you're standing on is all crucible. This would explain the human and geth(which can also be quarian) parts in that chamber.


Wait, are you trying to suggest that Shepard was on the CRUCIBLE and not the CITADEL?  'Cause I'm pretty sure that, assuming the endings were real, Shepard was on the Citadel.


It wasn't my suggestion, it was actually Dante's. I just never continued the investigation. I might look into it again.