55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

byne wrote...
Kirrahe can definitely die on Virmire. If he's dead the dialogue changes in ME2 when you and Mordin talk about Kirrahe, plus you get a different salarian STG guy to talk to on Sur'kesh in ME3.

Kirrahe is dead on the PS3 version of Mass Effect 2, and nothing you can do can get you a living Kirrahe if you play on PS3

hmmm maybe it was a glitch or he got his imports mixed up or something... It's really interesting about the PS3 and no Kirrahe.. ha and it rhymes, too good! I play on xbox anyway, which im kind of upset about, saw a youtube vid of tuchanka in 1080p on PC... Oh my goodness! So jelly.

[dreamgazer]

IsaacShep wrote...

So the endings never happened, it was a hallucination and Mike Gamble knows about it because he was one of the people who made the game yet convinces himself that he will think that the endings did in fact happen, contrary to what he and the team created. Right?

You can still think about the endings, even if they didn't actually happen in your canon.

I operate under the pretense that destroy is the only logical option in the situation, but it hasn't stopped me from contemplating the positives and negatives of technological singularity or the mental willpower it'd take to control a synthetic race.  I can do two things at once. 

In Gamble's mind, an idyllic elevation of humanity with the assistance of synthetic components might be the right choice.  It doesn't mean it's the logical choice for everything we've seen across this particular series, in this particular universe.  He was stating his opinion about what he'd choose in that situation---as far as I could tell. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 24 mai 2012 - 10:02 .

[paxxton]

I watched an interview with Mac Walters during ME3 Launch. He said that ME3 is about an intergalactic war. But there's only Milky Way.

When I saw the Launch Trailer, I though the conduit they showed at the end would transport Shepard to dark space or beyond.

Modifié par paxxton, 24 mai 2012 - 10:00 .

[MaximizedAction]

llbountyhunter wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Sorry, I posted this yesterday, but i'm reposting now to see if there are any additional thoughts.
...............
I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of or involves a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

Haven't read the novel, but
would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control
doesn't necessarily imply what Starbinger claimed about the Synth/Org conflict. Growing out of control doesn't have to lead to agressive actions from synthetics. Agression from the loss of control sounds more like fear than a supersticious, deterministic universe.

the second point isnt really a foreshadowing.... thats pretty much how everyone feels about AI's across all three mass effect games.

And the Reapers are happy to encourange that fear. Oh, and what a coincidence, Starbinger encourages that in Shepard by stating it as fact.
From a logical standpoint, more intelligent lifeforms should have to offer new knowledge, new points of view on the universe. Instead this allknowing AI, seemingly built by am incredibly intelligent race offers no such thing, but rather tries to encourages the human Shepard in his fear of synthetics.

[EpyonX3]

Yes I did it. The official SWOTC theory blog!

http://swotc.blogspot.com/

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Yes I did it. The official SWOTC theory blog!

http://swotc.blogspot.com/

<_<

[shepskisaac]

estebanus wrote...

No no, I didn't call people who don't believe in it delusional or stupid!

What I meant was that most anti-enders, even those that are against the IT, will likely choose the IT instead of the literal endings. That's why I think that the poll in the HTL forums are leaning towards the IT side!

I certainly was not trying to imply that all anti-ITers are stupid!

You said smart people are going for the most like thing to happen (IT) which means smart people consider IT the be the most liklely resolution. Not much room for 'misunderstanding' here. And then you added that the delusional ones are voting no. Right

[Salient Archer]

MrStoob wrote...

There are no timescales provided in the closing sections, so stating that Shep wouldn't be able to do X thing in Y time because it was Z distance away is futile.

Ok, lets try this from another angle shall we:

The average sprinter can run at 16kph, Shepard would have to clear 3.6 kilometers just to be at the edge of the presidium, how long would it take Shepard to run this distance?

Once you work out the answer, do you honestly believe that amount of time passed between the tube explosion and the citadel going kablooey?

All of this information disregards the fact that Shepard is not fit to limp let alone run, just coped a face full of exploding tube and that additional travel would be required for him to reach a safe distance away from the explosion.

[Jadebaby]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Uh because of that wallpaper I just remembered a quote, that is ironically also used for him for his wiki page:
"Salvation comes with a cost. Judge us not by our methods, but by what we seek to accomplish."
Now Harbinger said:
"That what you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."
yeah, with a "cost", nice one Jack.

lol true that, maybe it was the indoctrination speaking... Somewhere along the way, Jacky boy lost his way.
I still stand by the thought that if IDT is true, TIM should have a final desperate "hoorah!" moment to redeem himself and make all his disgustingly unethical experiments worth it.

[byne]

MaximizedAction wrote...


And the Reapers are happy to encourange that fear. Oh, and what a coincidence, Starbinger encourages that in Shepard by stating it as fact.
From a logical standpoint, more intelligent lifeforms should have to offer new knowledge, new points of view on the universe. Instead this allknowing AI, seemingly built by am incredibly intelligent race offers no such thing, but rather tries to encourages the human Shepard in his fear of synthetics.

The best part about Godchild stating that AIs will always turn on organics is that he is literally an AI who has been killing organics for billions of years.

Just because you have created a cycle of self-fulfilling prophecy doesnt prove that you are right, godchild.

[D.Sharrah]

byne wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

byne wrote...

blooregard wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Who said they even really tried? Also I guess in the time between ME1 and ME2 the Collectors would have sabotaged the Conduit if they could get it working.

I hadn't thought of that. Though the Council still gets an F for not trying.

Question: if there was a collapsed tunnel in the middle of Afghanistan that lead directly to the Oval Office, would the US Government get an F for not trying to rebuild said tunnel?

You seem to be forgetting the Conduit is in the Terminus Systems, so reopening a Relay that leads directly from the Terminus Systems to the heart of the Citadel is not exactly a good idea.

At face value I see your point.  But I have to ask you, wouldn't the events of ME 1 change your political views of the galaxy?  Don't believe Shepard and the existence of the Reapers, fine.  But, would it be smart to prepare for the worst even if that's not what you were expecting?  With this in mind, is it too much of a stetch too think that you might reach out to the Terminus systems discreetly and say, "Look, if Shepard is right about these Reapers we need to bury the hatchet and be prepared for the worst."  Now the actual conversation might take alot more time and have alot more depth - but that would be the gist of it.

I remeber one of my favorite theories from ME 2 was that the council wanted to believe Shepard but could not trust Cerberus - and therefore secretly and discreetly passed information through the right channels so a certain Turian would learn of the Thanix cannon - a weapon that proved to very important to Shepard's mission.  Sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures.

So, in your example if some greater evil had risen in the world and a tunnel from the White House to Afghanistan was an emergency back door - I would be ok with them trying to rebuild it.

Theres really not anyone to reach out to in the Terminus Systems though. Aria only really controls Omega, the rest is just pirates and terrorists. Reaching out and saying 'hey lets work on this conduit' could easily backfire if whoever you reach out to just decides to betray you.

Also, fun fact: Joker subscribed to that theory about the Council believing Shepard but lying to you because of Cerberus. He says something along those lines in ME3.

I never meant to imply that they would be successful...just would have thought it would have been a nice way to add depth to the story and universe.

[BatmanTurian]

IsaacShep wrote...

estebanus wrote...

No no, I didn't call people who don't believe in it delusional or stupid!

What I meant was that most anti-enders, even those that are against the IT, will likely choose the IT instead of the literal endings. That's why I think that the poll in the HTL forums are leaning towards the IT side!

I certainly was not trying to imply that all anti-ITers are stupid!

You said smart people are going for the most like thing to happen (IT) which means smart people consider IT the be the most liklely resolution. Not much room for 'misunderstanding' here. And then you added that the delusional ones are voting no. Right

It doesn't matter. We don't know who is who until the EC. Until then, it's individual opinion. Go back under your bridge.

[paxxton]

Never mind.

Modifié par paxxton, 24 mai 2012 - 10:04 .

[Jadebaby]

paxxton wrote...

I watched an interview with Mac Walters during ME3 Launch. He said that ME3 is about an intergalactic war. But there's only Milky Way.

When I saw the Launch Trailer, I though the conduit they showed at the end would transport Shepard to dark space or beyond.

He probably meant it as in the Reapers are invading from Dark Space...

[shepskisaac]

dreamgazer wrote...

You can still think about the endings, even if they didn't actually happen in your canon.

But you can't really say that Synthesis is the best option if it leads to you losing

[SnazzyBeast]

paxxton wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Sorry, I posted this yesterday, but i'm reposting now to see if there are any additional thoughts.
...............
I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of or involves a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

1. If they had already shown us everything in previous games, there wouldn't be a lot left for ME3.
2. Destruction of organics by synthetics is so logical and inevitable (even in RL) that it's beyond comprehension how anyone can claim otherwise.

They don't have to show us everything, but indoctrination is a big part of the game and we see it quite a few times. There are alot of complaints about headaches, hearing voices, etc. As i said, I do believe in IT (or at least that it was intended to be a possible interpretation of the ending), but I'd be alot more confident if hallucinations have been shown to be part of indoctrination somewhere in the games/books. I'm just trying to find out if this has happened somewhere.

[MegumiAzusa]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Yes I did it. The official SWOTC theory blog!

http://swotc.blogspot.com/

You did it! The only thing you had to do for that is creating a blogspot account and ignoring any evidence against it.

[BatmanTurian]

Salient Archer wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

There are no timescales provided in the closing sections, so stating that Shep wouldn't be able to do X thing in Y time because it was Z distance away is futile.

Ok, lets try this from another angle shall we:

The average sprinter can run at 16kph, Shepard would have to clear 3.6 kilometers just to be at the edge of the presidium, how long would it take Shepard to run this distance?

Once you work out the answer, do you honestly believe that amount of time passed between the tube explosion and the citadel going kablooey?

All of this information disregards the fact that Shepard is not fit to limp let alone run, just coped a face full of exploding tube and that additional travel would be required for him to reach a safe distance away from the explosion.

The poster is grabbing emergency induction ports. You shouldn't even dignify them with a serious response.

[Jadebaby]

BatmanTurian wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

estebanus wrote...

No no, I didn't call people who don't believe in it delusional or stupid!

What I meant was that most anti-enders, even those that are against the IT, will likely choose the IT instead of the literal endings. That's why I think that the poll in the HTL forums are leaning towards the IT side!

I certainly was not trying to imply that all anti-ITers are stupid!

You said smart people are going for the most like thing to happen (IT) which means smart people consider IT the be the most liklely resolution. Not much room for 'misunderstanding' here. And then you added that the delusional ones are voting no. Right

It doesn't matter. We don't know who is who until the EC. Until then, it's individual opinion. Go back under your bridge.

The reason IDT has a lot of votes on HTL is because a lot of people, even though they might not necessarily like IDT, still see it as a plausable option. So they vote yes. Either way I think IsaacShep was just trying to twist your words to get a rise out of you.

[blooregard]

byne wrote...

blooregard wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Who said they even really tried? Also I guess in the time between ME1 and ME2 the Collectors would have sabotaged the Conduit if they could get it working.

I hadn't thought of that. Though the Council still gets an F for not trying.

Question: if there was a collapsed tunnel in the middle of Afghanistan that lead directly to the Oval Office, would the US Government get an F for not trying to rebuild said tunnel?

You seem to be forgetting the Conduit is in the Terminus Systems, so reopening a Relay that leads directly from the Terminus Systems to the heart of the Citadel is not exactly a good idea.

The conduit's existence to the best of my knowledge is limited to those that were actually on Ilos and the council itself. The mu relay is regarded as a myth to everyone and Ilos probably doesn't even exist to most people. The council, special tactics and recon and the crew of hte Normandy are probably the only ones that know of the conduit, its location, and how to get there.
As a side note I believe the Geth (Legion anyway) knows where it is in which case the Geth don't care enough to use it or fix it as they don't wish to fight organics.

[SnazzyBeast]

MaximizedAction wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Sorry, I posted this yesterday, but i'm reposting now to see if there are any additional thoughts.
...............
I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of or involves a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

Haven't read the novel, but
would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control
doesn't necessarily imply what Starbinger claimed about the Synth/Org conflict. Growing out of control doesn't have to lead to agressive actions from synthetics. Agression from the loss of control sounds more like fear than a supersticious, deterministic universe.

the second point isnt really a foreshadowing.... thats pretty much how everyone feels about AI's across all three mass effect games.

And the Reapers are happy to encourange that fear. Oh, and what a coincidence, Starbinger encourages that in Shepard by stating it as fact.
From a logical standpoint, more intelligent lifeforms should have to offer new knowledge, new points of view on the universe. Instead this allknowing AI, seemingly built by am incredibly intelligent race offers no such thing, but rather tries to encourages the human Shepard in his fear of synthetics.

Fair points.Definitely a possibility.

[HellishFiend]

FellishBeast wrote...

This gun stuff sure is interesting. I wish someone would make a TL;DR every 15 pages or so for people who have been out of the loop

Also, HellishFiend, for some reason I find your name vaguely awesome.

 Your name is vaguely awesome as well. Also, as people around here can tell you, that Harbinger sig used to be the one I used as well. Are you my long lost twin?

[BatmanTurian]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

estebanus wrote...

No no, I didn't call people who don't believe in it delusional or stupid!

What I meant was that most anti-enders, even those that are against the IT, will likely choose the IT instead of the literal endings. That's why I think that the poll in the HTL forums are leaning towards the IT side!

I certainly was not trying to imply that all anti-ITers are stupid!

You said smart people are going for the most like thing to happen (IT) which means smart people consider IT the be the most liklely resolution. Not much room for 'misunderstanding' here. And then you added that the delusional ones are voting no. Right

It doesn't matter. We don't know who is who until the EC. Until then, it's individual opinion. Go back under your bridge.

The reason IDT has a lot of votes on HTL is because a lot of people, even though they might not necessarily like IDT, still see it as a plausable option. So they vote yes. Either way I think IsaacShep was just trying to twist your words to get a rise out of you.

Yes, Isaacshep is a known troll who never contributes anything of value.

[paxxton]

SnazzyBeast wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Sorry, I posted this yesterday, but i'm reposting now to see if there are any additional thoughts.
...............
I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of or involves a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

1. If they had already shown us everything in previous games, there wouldn't be a lot left for ME3.
2. Destruction of organics by synthetics is so logical and inevitable (even in RL) that it's beyond comprehension how anyone can claim otherwise.

They don't have to show us everything, but indoctrination is a big part of the game and we see it quite a few times. There are alot of complaints about headaches, hearing voices, etc. As i said, I do believe in IT (or at least that it was intended to be a possible interpretation of the ending), but I'd be alot more confident if hallucinations have been shown to be part of indoctrination somewhere in the games/books. I'm just trying to find out if this has happened somewhere.

But we never get to experience indoctrination firsthand before the ME3 ending. Everything earlier is based on observation or stories from other characters. And the codex specifically states hallucinations as one of the symptoms of indoctrination.

Modifié par paxxton, 24 mai 2012 - 10:13 .

[EpyonX3]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Yes I did it. The official SWOTC theory blog!

http://swotc.blogspot.com/

You did it! The only thing you had to do for that is creating a blogspot account and ignoring any evidence against it.

Already had the account Ha!

Hopefully it sparks debate!