55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Uh because of that wallpaper I just remembered a quote, that is ironically also used for him for his wiki page:
"Salvation comes with a cost. Judge us not by our methods, but by what we seek to accomplish."
Now Harbinger said:
"That what you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."
yeah, with a "cost", nice one Jack.

lol true that, maybe it was the indoctrination speaking... Somewhere along the way, Jacky boy lost his way.
I still stand by the thought that if IDT is true, TIM should have a final desperate "hoorah!" moment to redeem himself and make all his disgustingly unethical experiments worth it.

The "I tried, Shepard." was everything I needed for him to redeem himself in my eyes (which were slightly wet at that point).

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Yes I did it. The official SWOTC theory blog!

http://swotc.blogspot.com/

Epyon, lets assume that the decision chamber was indeed part of the Crucible.

How does that change anything?

The literal ending still makes no damned sense.

[D.Sharrah]

IsaacShep wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You can still think about the endings, even if they didn't actually happen in your canon.

But you can't really say that Synthesis is the best option if it leads to you losing

Have you ever been part of planning a surprise event for anyone?  While being a part of this, have you ever been asked by the "target" of the surprise if anything was going on?  What did you tell them?

[estebanus]

Okay, let me try to clarify my post:

What I meant was, that the reason why I think that the IT poll in the HTL forums are so heavily for the IT, is that there are a lot of people who'd rather take the IT instead of the literal endings. Pro-IT or not.

Those that voted no (And I mean from the comments, not all people) seem to be the fatalistic types. Those that say it's a stupid fan fiction, it doesn't fit with the themes of the game, calling us idiots, zealots and wishful thinking seem pretty deluded to me.

Again, that's just what I gathered from the negative posts, not what I think of anti-ITers in general, ok?

I can see that my original post was very poorly worded, and I apologize, ok?

I hope what I just said made sense!

[shepskisaac]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Yes, Isaacshep is a known troll who never contributes anything of value.

Just because what I bring doesn't suit your "IT is real!" desired outcome doesn't means it lacks value

[BatmanTurian]

http://social.biowar...5635/4#12223702

jules__vern18, an amazing specimen to study. they responded to you, estebanus.

[Cyberfrog81]

I think this is a relevant addendum to the Predator / Carnifex issue.

It is often "sold" as the Carnifex turning into the Predator, but I now aim to show that we may have hallucinated a little bit ourselves.

First, yes, there's no doubt we start out with just the Carnifex:



But observe this frame: It looks like the Predator mesh is added (i.e. not actually replacing anything) to the scene:



Then, in the next frame or so the new mesh also gets a texture:



The Carnifex has not actually been (fully) replaced. Look:

That's not the only "still Carnifex area", but it's easy to see when you know to look for it.


I honestly didn't notice while I was making my own video to corroborate the initial finding. Maybe it's the color change (new gun material?) that tricked me. Regardless, you can see it clearly. It's a bit harder to see in Prettz' video, but still evidently there: Two guns, not one turning into another.


To be clear, I still think seeing intent here is justified, given how it occurs in the same shot and when the shockwave hits.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 24 mai 2012 - 10:18 .

[MegumiAzusa]

D.Sharrah wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You can still think about the endings, even if they didn't actually happen in your canon.

But you can't really say that Synthesis is the best option if it leads to you losing

Have you ever been part of planning a surprise event for anyone?  While being a part of this, have you ever been asked by the "target" of the surprise if anything was going on?  What did you tell them?

Maybe he is something for which the Asari word translates as "blabbermouth." ^^

[BatmanTurian]

IsaacShep wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Yes, Isaacshep is a known troll who never contributes anything of value.

Just because what I bring doesn't suit your "IT is real!" desired outcome doesn't means it lacks value

What you bring is literally nothing. So yes, it lacks value.

[estebanus]

BatmanTurian wrote...

http://social.biowar...5635/4#12223702

jules__vern18, an amazing specimen to study. they responded to you, estebanus.

Oh, gawd...

[D.Sharrah]

SnazzyBeast wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Sorry, I posted this yesterday, but i'm reposting now to see if there are any additional thoughts.
...............
I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of or involves a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

1. If they had already shown us everything in previous games, there wouldn't be a lot left for ME3.
2. Destruction of organics by synthetics is so logical and inevitable (even in RL) that it's beyond comprehension how anyone can claim otherwise.

They don't have to show us everything, but indoctrination is a big part of the game and we see it quite a few times. There are alot of complaints about headaches, hearing voices, etc. As i said, I do believe in IT (or at least that it was intended to be a possible interpretation of the ending), but I'd be alot more confident if hallucinations have been shown to be part of indoctrination somewhere in the games/books. I'm just trying to find out if this has happened somewhere.

Go back and watch some of the videos while on the derelict reaper in ME 2...there is a log where two guys are discussing having the exact same memory/dream from their wedding day...then there is alog where a guy complaisn about a ghost like shape walking through a wall...if that's not enough proof for you of hallucinations are a part of indoctrination, I don't know what to tell you.

[SnazzyBeast]

paxxton wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Sorry, I posted this yesterday, but i'm reposting now to see if there are any additional thoughts.
...............
I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of or involves a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

1. If they had already shown us everything in previous games, there wouldn't be a lot left for ME3.
2. Destruction of organics by synthetics is so logical and inevitable (even in RL) that it's beyond comprehension how anyone can claim otherwise.

They don't have to show us everything, but indoctrination is a big part of the game and we see it quite a few times. There are alot of complaints about headaches, hearing voices, etc. As i said, I do believe in IT (or at least that it was intended to be a possible interpretation of the ending), but I'd be alot more confident if hallucinations have been shown to be part of indoctrination somewhere in the games/books. I'm just trying to find out if this has happened somewhere.

But we never get to experience indoctrination firsthand before the ME3 ending. Everything earlier is based on observation or stories from other characters. And the codex specifically states hallucinations as one of the symptoms of indoctrination.

Does it? If so I'll feel pretty foolish . That would be a good spot to check. I don't remember that though. I'll have to look again.

[BatmanTurian]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

I think this is a relevant addendum to the Predator / Carnifex issue.

It is often "sold" as the Carnifex turning into the Predator, but I now aim to show that we may have hallucinated a little bit ourselves.

First, yes, there's no doubt we start out with just the Carnifex:
But observe this frame: It looks like the Predator mesh is added (i.e. not actually replacing anything) to the scene:

Then, in the next frame or so the new mesh also gets a texture:
 Carnifex has not actually been (fully) replaced. Look: That's not the only "still Carnifex area", but it's easy to seewhen you know to look for it.


I honestly didn't notice while I was making my own video to corroborate the finding. Maybe it's the color change (new gun material?) that tricked me. Regardless, you can see it clearly. It's a bit harder to see in Prettz' video, but still evidently there: Two guns, not one turning into another.


To be clear, I still think seeing intent here is justified, given how it occurs in the same shot and when the shockwave hits.

My first observation is that it appears to be both guns at the same time, combined together.

[byne]

IsaacShep wrote...

*something, but I'm not quoting it because it doesnt pertain to the question I am asking*

This isnt really relevant, but since your sig has Cortez in it, I'm wondering, did you romance him?

And if so, did you pick control or synthesis?

Cause I've always thought that helping Steve get over the loss of his husband by getting into a relationship with Shepard, who he is then separated from at the end, possibly forever, was kind of cruel to him.

I like Steve too much to do that to him.

I also play FemShep so its not like I'd have the option anyways, but still, I'd always found it sad that his romance would end like that.

[MegumiAzusa]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

I think this is a relevant addendum to the Predator / Carnifex issue.

It is often "sold" as the Carnifex turning into the Predator, but I now aim to show that we may have hallucinated a little bit ourselves.

First, yes, there's no doubt we start out with just the Carnifex:
http://img39.imagesh...apshot00422.jpg


But observe this frame: It looks like the Predator mesh is added (i.e. not actually replacing anything) to the scene:
http://img848.images...apshot00422.jpg


Then, in the next frame or so the new mesh also gets a texture:
http://img651.images...apshot00432.jpg


The Carnifex has not actually been (fully) replaced. Look:
http://img59.imagesh...apshot00432.jpg
That's not the only "still Carnifex area", but it's easy to see when you know to look for it.


I honestly didn't notice while I was making my own video to corroborate the finding. Maybe it's the color change (new gun material?) that tricked me. Regardless, you can see it clearly. It's a bit harder to see in Prettz' video, but still evidently there: Two guns, not one turning into another.


To be clear, I still think seeing intent here is justified, given how it occurs in the same shot and when the shockwave hits.

The reason is you can't have two pistols at one time, because of that they had to do a workaround. The not loaded texture is just that: the texture isn't fully loaded yet (the Unreal Engine always passes the lowest mip level first to the graphics card to speed up load times and loads higher levels on the fly).

[SnazzyBeast]

D.Sharrah wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Sorry, I posted this yesterday, but i'm reposting now to see if there are any additional thoughts.
...............
I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of or involves a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

1. If they had already shown us everything in previous games, there wouldn't be a lot left for ME3.
2. Destruction of organics by synthetics is so logical and inevitable (even in RL) that it's beyond comprehension how anyone can claim otherwise.

They don't have to show us everything, but indoctrination is a big part of the game and we see it quite a few times. There are alot of complaints about headaches, hearing voices, etc. As i said, I do believe in IT (or at least that it was intended to be a possible interpretation of the ending), but I'd be alot more confident if hallucinations have been shown to be part of indoctrination somewhere in the games/books. I'm just trying to find out if this has happened somewhere.

Go back and watch some of the videos while on the derelict reaper in ME 2...there is a log where two guys are discussing having the exact same memory/dream from their wedding day...then there is alog where a guy complaisn about a ghost like shape walking through a wall...if that's not enough proof for you of hallucinations are a part of indoctrination, I don't know what to tell you.

Nice. I wasn't saying that hallucinations weren't a part of indoc, I just didn't remember seeing it. This is the type of thing i was looking for. Thanks

[byne]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

That Carnifex/Predator Hybrid gun looks pretty cool.

I kinda want a gun that looks like that now.

[D.Sharrah]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You can still think about the endings, even if they didn't actually happen in your canon.

But you can't really say that Synthesis is the best option if it leads to you losing

Have you ever been part of planning a surprise event for anyone?  While being a part of this, have you ever been asked by the "target" of the surprise if anything was going on?  What did you tell them?

Maybe he is something for which the Asari word translates as "blabbermouth." ^^

Which very well may be...but is Gamble?  And that's the point that I was trying get across.  Perhaps the reason that Gamble responded the way that he did, was simply to throw people off the scent - so that the surprise would not be ruined.

Edit:  Which I do believe is the very point that most here, are really trying to get across!

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 24 mai 2012 - 10:20 .

[paxxton]

So E3 is in 2 weeks. I hope we'll get to know more about BioWare's plans regarding the EC.

[dreamgazer]

IsaacShep wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You can still think about the endings, even if they didn't actually happen in your canon.

But you can't really say that Synthesis is the best option if it leads to you losing

Taken at face-value, which is the position that the game was currently at when he made that statement, you didn't "lose" or "win" in any of them. They all have their pitfalls, their own complex negatives. 

Also, he says that Synthesis is the most difficult to get. Him mentioning it at all reads like a reflection of personal opinion, as I took it, but really he's just saying that synthesis is the result of the most complex version of the Crucible (i.e. the "optimal" ending is the one where you have the most choices, and the highest score).

He also personally thinks destroy isn't the best option.

[shepskisaac]

byne wrote...

This isnt really relevant, but since your sig has Cortez in it, I'm wondering, did you romance him?

Yes, of course I romanced him and I picked Destroy.

D.Sharrah wrote...

Have you ever been part of planning a surprise event for anyone?  While being a part of this, have you ever been asked by the "target" of the surprise if anything was going on?  What did you tell them?

So we're back to "it a surprise, they planned it"? It's May 24th, more than 2,5 months since the game released and yet the release date for first SP DLC is still nowhere on the horizon. If it was all planned, they would've released the "true ending" DLC already.
 Epilogue DLC for POP 2008 was released exactly 3 months after the game. Ending DLC for Asura's Wrath 2 months after the game.

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

That Carnifex/Predator Hybrid gun looks pretty cool.

I kinda want a gun that looks like that now.

Weapon DLC/ME4?

[estebanus]

byne wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

That Carnifex/Predator Hybrid gun looks pretty cool.

I kinda want a gun that looks like that now.

Actually, it does kinda look cool!

predafex/carnitor for ME3 DLC weapon! Woot!

It should have the ammo capacity of a predator and the firing power of a carnifex!

[byne]

IsaacShep wrote...

byne wrote...

This isnt really relevant, but since your sig has Cortez in it, I'm wondering, did you romance him?

Yes, of course I romanced him and I picked Destroy.

Ah, well then theres at least a chance he won't be emotionally devastated yet again. That makes me feel better.

[D.Sharrah]

SnazzyBeast wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

paxxton wrote...

SnazzyBeast wrote...

Sorry, I posted this yesterday, but i'm reposting now to see if there are any additional thoughts.
...............
I realize that this stuff has probably been said before, but there are alot of posts to go through between the two threads.

1. I believe that at a minimum, BioWare wanted to leave the ending open, with indoctrination being one of the possible interpretations. One question I have though, is have we seen anywhere in the series where indoctrination consists of or involves a full-on hallucination?

2. Unrelated, but I was reading the first Mass Effect novel and there is some foreshadowing of the literal interpretation of the end. The passage talks about the danger of AI - "[AI] would teach itself; quickly surpassing the capabilities of its organic creators and growing beyond their control... conventional theory held that this doomsday scenario wasn't merely possible, it was unavoidable... the emergence of artificial intelligence was the single greatest threat to organic life in the galaxy." It cites the Geth rebellion (although they were not true AI's) as support of the theory.

1. If they had already shown us everything in previous games, there wouldn't be a lot left for ME3.
2. Destruction of organics by synthetics is so logical and inevitable (even in RL) that it's beyond comprehension how anyone can claim otherwise.

They don't have to show us everything, but indoctrination is a big part of the game and we see it quite a few times. There are alot of complaints about headaches, hearing voices, etc. As i said, I do believe in IT (or at least that it was intended to be a possible interpretation of the ending), but I'd be alot more confident if hallucinations have been shown to be part of indoctrination somewhere in the games/books. I'm just trying to find out if this has happened somewhere.

Go back and watch some of the videos while on the derelict reaper in ME 2...there is a log where two guys are discussing having the exact same memory/dream from their wedding day...then there is alog where a guy complaisn about a ghost like shape walking through a wall...if that's not enough proof for you of hallucinations are a part of indoctrination, I don't know what to tell you.

Nice. I wasn't saying that hallucinations weren't a part of indoc, I just didn't remember seeing it. This is the type of thing i was looking for. Thanks

You are very welcome.  I can appreciate not being able to remember all the specifics...when you really start to think about all the little hints over the enitre trilogy it really does make IT seems so inevitable...