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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#6601
Unschuld

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byne wrote...

Ash can stay indoctrinated for all I care, as long as Liara and Vega are fine.


I would feel mildly bad if Vega had to be put down, even if he isn't my favorite. Kaidan though... Watching the video of him getting killed during the Citadel coup on Youtube was painful. Killling him is like shooting a puppy in the face.

#6602
balance5050

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GethPrimeMKII wrote...

TIM has barely tapped into how indoctrination works. Last thing cerberus would know how to do is reverse indoctrination. I believe the game itself says indoctrination is irreversable


The codex says that, and the codex is only going by a "as far as we know" basis. Shiala manged to reverse it with the help of the thorian. I don't see why we couldn't synthesize thorian spores to accomplish the same thing.

Modifié par balance5050, 25 mai 2012 - 06:06 .


#6603
byne

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Unschuld wrote...

byne wrote...

Ash can stay indoctrinated for all I care, as long as Liara and Vega are fine.


I would feel mildly bad if Vega had to be put down, even if he isn't my favorite. Kaidan though... Watching the video of him getting killed during the Citadel coup on Youtube was painful. Killling him is like shooting a puppy in the face.


Well Kaidan is just a pile of radioactive ashes for me, so no problem there.

#6604
MegumiAzusa

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Unschuld wrote...

byne wrote...

Ash can stay indoctrinated for all I care, as long as Liara and Vega are fine.


I would feel mildly bad if Vega had to be put down, even if he isn't my favorite. Kaidan though... Watching the video of him getting killed during the Citadel coup on Youtube was painful. Killling him is like shooting a puppy in the face.

I would dislike if any would have to be killed, just because I like them all ^^
And Vega and Esteban are such a cute couple.

#6605
balance5050

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byne wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

byne wrote...

Ash can stay indoctrinated for all I care, as long as Liara and Vega are fine.


I would feel mildly bad if Vega had to be put down, even if he isn't my favorite. Kaidan though... Watching the video of him getting killed during the Citadel coup on Youtube was painful. Killling him is like shooting a puppy in the face.


Well Kaidan is just a pile of radioactive ashes for me, so no problem there.


Me too, but on my next trilogy playthrough I think I'll keep him alive, because Ashley never amounted to much IMO. You'd think she would be a little wiser after all these years.

#6606
MegumiAzusa

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balance5050 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

TIM has barely tapped into how indoctrination works. Last thing cerberus would know how to do is reverse indoctrination. I believe the game itself says indoctrination is irreversable


The codex says that, and the codex is only going by a "as far as we know" basis. Shiala manged to reverse it with the help of the thorian. I don't see why we couldn't synthesize thorian spores to accomplish the same thing.

Yes, let's build our own consensus.

#6607
RavenEyry

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paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Yeah, it deserves it's own topic, the IT'ers seem to have dismissed your claim Epyon. I know I have.

The same happened to the Unified Nanide-based IT. It was crucified. Posted Image


*In best Lee Van Cleef voice*"There's only enough room in this sorry little thread for one theory."

#6608
Cyberfrog81

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Your point is also flawed. It doesn't allow constructive critism in the IT thread. Something that is valuable for the theory to continue existing. It's too bad.

It's essential. I suppose, though, he doesn't find your posts all that constructive.


On an unrelated note: ZING!

#6609
byne

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balance5050 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

TIM has barely tapped into how indoctrination works. Last thing cerberus would know how to do is reverse indoctrination. I believe the game itself says indoctrination is irreversable


The codex says that, and the codex is only going by a "as far as we know" basis. Shiala manged to reverse it with the help of the thorian. I don't see why we couldn't synthesize thorian spores to accomplish the same thing.


To be fair Shiala is still indoctrinated. She says so herself. Its just her connection to the people of Zhu's hope through the remaining traces of the thorian is stronger.

From Shiala's email in ME3:

Shiala wrote...

I'm not sure if you remember me, but you helped me back on lllium. The Thorian is dead now. I can confirm that. But the spores in our bodies remain, and on some level, we are still connected.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. As we fight back the Reapers, we feel each other, and act with one mind, ignoring pain when the need arises. I'm sure I'm still indoctrinated. I remember Sovereign's voice in my mind when I went willingly to the Thorian as its thrall. But my connection to the people of Zhu's Hope is stronger. It drowns out the Reaper voices.


Modifié par byne, 25 mai 2012 - 06:09 .


#6610
MegumiAzusa

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balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

byne wrote...

Ash can stay indoctrinated for all I care, as long as Liara and Vega are fine.


I would feel mildly bad if Vega had to be put down, even if he isn't my favorite. Kaidan though... Watching the video of him getting killed during the Citadel coup on Youtube was painful. Killling him is like shooting a puppy in the face.


Well Kaidan is just a pile of radioactive ashes for me, so no problem there.


Me too, but on my next trilogy playthrough I think I'll keep him alive, because Ashley never amounted to much IMO. You'd think she would be a little wiser after all these years.

Her new look and attitude on Mars (her VA increases this somehow, Kaidan is fine, Ash just seems ...) made her the most unattractive character imo.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 25 mai 2012 - 06:11 .


#6611
MissOuJ

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MegumiAzusa wrote...
http://social.biowar...32/260#12232510


Thanks! That explains... altho it could also just mean that Kaidan/Ashley/Liara/Vega are just majorly creeped out. Then again, we don't know whether or not they're having creepy nightmares and hallucinating oily shadows - but we do know Vega hears humming...

#6612
GethPrimeMKII

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Ah the thorian. I had forgotten that it had that potential. The spore idea makes sense. Being a ps3 owner I only have 2 playthroughs worth of experience with me1's story on the PC. They need to throw that game on the ps3 or the interactive comic needs way more depth.

#6613
Raistlin Majare 1992

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byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

TIM has barely tapped into how indoctrination works. Last thing cerberus would know how to do is reverse indoctrination. I believe the game itself says indoctrination is irreversable


The codex says that, and the codex is only going by a "as far as we know" basis. Shiala manged to reverse it with the help of the thorian. I don't see why we couldn't synthesize thorian spores to accomplish the same thing.


To be fair Shiala is still indoctrinated. She says so herself. Its just her connection to the people of Zhu's hope through the remaining traces of the thorian is stronger.



Yes and the main reason Indoctrination is probably irreviseble is propably not so much the control, but the mental degeneration the subject goes through. Even if you reversed it on a deeply Indoctrinated subject he would probably have mental scars for the rest of his life.

#6614
RavenEyry

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If there turns out to be an indoctrinated mole it wont be the VS because they could be dead, unless of course the mole changes between players.

#6615
Unschuld

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byne wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

byne wrote...

Ash can stay indoctrinated for all I care, as long as Liara and Vega are fine.


I would feel mildly bad if Vega had to be put down, even if he isn't my favorite. Kaidan though... Watching the video of him getting killed during the Citadel coup on Youtube was painful. Killling him is like shooting a puppy in the face.


Well Kaidan is just a pile of radioactive ashes for me, so no problem there.


Poor Kaidan. His character really pulled through in the third game, which caught me by surprise. Definitely bumped him up several notches on my favorites list.

#6616
balance5050

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byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

TIM has barely tapped into how indoctrination works. Last thing cerberus would know how to do is reverse indoctrination. I believe the game itself says indoctrination is irreversable


The codex says that, and the codex is only going by a "as far as we know" basis. Shiala manged to reverse it with the help of the thorian. I don't see why we couldn't synthesize thorian spores to accomplish the same thing.


To be fair Shiala is still indoctrinated. She says so herself. Its just her connection to the people of Zhu's hope through the remaining traces of the thorian is stronger.

From Shiala's email in ME3:

Shiala wrote...

I'm not sure if you remember me, but you helped me back on lllium. The Thorian is dead now. I can confirm that. But the spores in our bodies remain, and on some level, we are still connected.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. As we fight back the Reapers, we feel each other, and act with one mind, ignoring pain when the need arises. I'm sure I'm still indoctrinated. I remember Sovereign's voice in my mind when I went willingly to the Thorian as its thrall. But my connection to the people of Zhu's Hope is stronger. It drowns out the Reaper voices.



Ok, for the sake of theorizing. Say after Shepard wakes up, some stuff happens  and then joker kills Harbinger, temporarily releasing a grip on Shepard and crew. Couldn't we use the thorian spores to anchor ourselves in reality (halting further indoc) until we develop some sort of cure or treatment?

#6617
Corik

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Hey guys. This is the first time I post in these forums. I've been reading a lot about the ending of ME3 (which I ended yesterday because I couldn't play it until now). I really hope the ending was a dream related to Harbinger trying to Indoctrinate Shepard before he destroys it.

I can't explain with words how bad I feel after I completed the game. Currently I feel deeply depressed... I don't want to do anything, I don't want to talk to anyone... I'm just terribly sad. The ending is just so wrong. I could have accepted Shepard's death, but not like this.

So many hours playing this game, building relationships with the other people. Kaidan and Garrus, who became my Shepard's best friends. Liara and Tali, very important support at difficult times. Joker, the best pilot in the galaxy... and a close friend too. Well... everybody was important. The moment before the final battle, when talking with all of them. It really seemed to be a goodbye, but I never thought it would really be.

After all, Shepard died, alone, without his friends. That's insulting for me. I really hoped to see Shepard in a Hospital, with Kaidan and Garrus taking care of his friend after the reapers were destroyed. Just like Shepard was there for Kaidan. But no, the game simply ended. And it ended without sense. You were presented 3 options, almost forced to take one of the 2 options the reapers always wanted instead of destroying them. I obviously destroyed them. I don't know if I was being indoctrinated and I resisted... and when EC arrives I will stand up with my friends and we will finally destroy Harbinger and the reapers... I just know It seems Shepard died alone, and everything which I fought for was destroyed, and everyone I cared for have died.

So guys, I'm sorry for all this nonsense... and I really REALLY hope IT theory is right... because this hurts a lot (at least to me).

#6618
GethPrimeMKII

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If they really wanted a plot device that would allow for the reversal of indoctrination, the thorian would be it.

#6619
paxxton

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RavenEyry wrote...

If there turns out to be an indoctrinated mole it wont be the VS because they could be dead, unless of course the mole changes between players.

Are you suggesting Vega the Humming Soldier?

#6620
byne

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Unschuld wrote...

byne wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

byne wrote...

Ash can stay indoctrinated for all I care, as long as Liara and Vega are fine.


I would feel mildly bad if Vega had to be put down, even if he isn't my favorite. Kaidan though... Watching the video of him getting killed during the Citadel coup on Youtube was painful. Killling him is like shooting a puppy in the face.


Well Kaidan is just a pile of radioactive ashes for me, so no problem there.


Poor Kaidan. His character really pulled through in the third game, which caught me by surprise. Definitely bumped him up several notches on my favorites list.


Kaidan suffers from the fact that his actor also played Carth, and as a Light Side Revan, I never got to kill Carth for annoying me so much.

He also played Professor Zei in Avatar: The Last Airbender, a character who thought reading books was more important than escaping a library slowly sinking into the desert.

I figure me not liking his other characters much is a shaky excuse at best for killing Kaidan, but there it is.

Plus, as I have said before, I led him and Liara along, offered him a threesome with two attractive women, and he not only said no but seemed offended.

You cant come back from a mistake like turning down a threesome with two hot women, so leaving him to die seemed the merciful thing to do.

#6621
Unschuld

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RavenEyry wrote...

If there turns out to be an indoctrinated mole it wont be the VS because they could be dead, unless of course the mole changes between players.


But Liara is a constant....


Posted Image 

#6622
HellishFiend

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Corik wrote...

Hey guys. This is the first time I post in these forums. I've been reading a lot about the ending of ME3 (which I ended yesterday because I couldn't play it until now). I really hope the ending was a dream related to Harbinger trying to Indoctrinate Shepard before he destroys it.

I can't explain with words how bad I feel after I completed the game. Currently I feel deeply depressed... I don't want to do anything, I don't want to talk to anyone... I'm just terribly sad. The ending is just so wrong. I could have accepted Shepard's death, but not like this.

So many hours playing this game, building relationships with the other people. Kaidan and Garrus, who became my Shepard's best friends. Liara and Tali, very important support at difficult times. Joker, the best pilot in the galaxy... and a close friend too. Well... everybody was important. The moment before the final battle, when talking with all of them. It really seemed to be a goodbye, but I never thought it would really be.

After all, Shepard died, alone, without his friends. That's insulting for me. I really hoped to see Shepard in a Hospital, with Kaidan and Garrus taking care of his friend after the reapers were destroyed. Just like Shepard was there for Kaidan. But no, the game simply ended. And it ended without sense. You were presented 3 options, almost forced to take one of the 2 options the reapers always wanted instead of destroying them. I obviously destroyed them. I don't know if I was being indoctrinated and I resisted... and when EC arrives I will stand up with my friends and we will finally destroy Harbinger and the reapers... I just know It seems Shepard died alone, and everything which I fought for was destroyed, and everyone I cared for have died.

So guys, I'm sorry for all this nonsense... and I really REALLY hope IT theory is right... because this hurts a lot (at least to me).


Welcome to the thread. :) Many people here shared your pain, but here in this topic, IT gives us hope.  

Outside of this topic, well... [/salarian councilor]

If it's any consolation, one of the Bioware community reps said something along the lines of "Reuniting Shep with the crewmates is possible", so IT or not, there is reason to stay optimistic. 

#6623
blooregard

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Maybe us thinking that everyone is indoctrinated is a side effect of the indoctrination.

#6624
byne

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balance5050 wrote...

Ok, for the sake of theorizing. Say after Shepard wakes up, some stuff happens  and then joker kills Harbinger, temporarily releasing a grip on Shepard and crew. Couldn't we use the thorian spores to anchor ourselves in reality (halting further indoc) until we develop some sort of cure or treatment?


The thorian is dead, where you gonna get spores?

#6625
paxxton

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Unschuld wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

If there turns out to be an indoctrinated mole it wont be the VS because they could be dead, unless of course the mole changes between players.


But Liara is a constant....


Posted Image 

Her name is suspicious too. Liar-a. Posted Image