55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MissOuJ]

byne wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Do you guys think the EC will shed light on the origin of the reapers and their motives?

I kinda hope not, to be honest.

I always liked the Reapers when they were just an unstoppable force that we could not possibly comprehend.

Learning more about them would take away from that.

Exactly. That's how psychological horror works: make it mysterious and lethal = scary. Take away the mystery = not so scary anymore.

As for the motives: I always thought that they just wanted to renew themselves with the new DNA from the harvested species so they can stay on top of the Galactic food chain in case something more powerful comes along. Rurthless self-persevation. I'm not buying any of the "we're doing it for your own good!" explanation.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 mai 2012 - 07:26 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

That didnt work out like planned. Droid phones truly suck. What I wanted to say was, arent you at least a little curious about the reapers' origin?

[byne]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

They even specifically go out of their way to tell you (via the recordings on Cronos Station) that the only reason they could bring Shep back in ME2 at all was because her brain was protected by her helmet.

You'll recall she had no helmet at the end.

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Yup, remember Tali is an Admiral (or at least can be)

Is Garrus' rank ever really explained, other than 'leader of anti-Reaper task force'?

Because like Shep said, even generals were saluting him.

No, not really, but it's implied he would be the next Primarch.

Implied by Shepard, not by Garrus, if I remember correctly.

Garrus' dad surely outranks him, and he's still alive.

Speaking of Garrus' family, did they ever mention his mom?

I remember the Shadow Broker files in ME2 had a conversation between him and his sister talking about medical treatments for her.

Did they ever say if she died or not? Or is it just assumed that she did?

Wasn't his dad not active anymore? Also Garrus was quite evasive on that topic so I think Shep hit something there...

[Corik]

MaximizedAction wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...


[snip]

OK.

So riddle me this:

My game ends with Shepard taking a breath in a pile of rubble.

How in the name of serenading Hanars is that possible if my Shepard was physically present in the Citadel/Crucible/in general not on planet Earth when he decided to destroy the Geth + Crucible + Mass Relays + all Reaper tech ever?

People who write sci-fi for a living cannot fail physics that badly.

Seriously. Just explain me this. How did he make it back Earthside? How isn't he squished by the rubble from the Citadel/Crucible?

EDIT Whoa what killed that formatting?

Even without the luxery of having a scientific consultant (couldn't find anything about whether the ME team has one) it should be clear that a chance for surviving this is non-existent.

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

I always thought Shepard was "just" floating in space. I even remember some conversations saying that. There wouldn't be any Shepard remains if he impacts a planet. In fact, I don't think he would even impact the surface of the planet. In any case... It's still imposible to survive a fall from the Citadel to the Earth (and I'm sure it's even imposible to survive the explosion).

[byne]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Yup, remember Tali is an Admiral (or at least can be)

Is Garrus' rank ever really explained, other than 'leader of anti-Reaper task force'?

Because like Shep said, even generals were saluting him.

No, not really, but it's implied he would be the next Primarch.

Implied by Shepard, not by Garrus, if I remember correctly.

Garrus' dad surely outranks him, and he's still alive.

Speaking of Garrus' family, did they ever mention his mom?

I remember the Shadow Broker files in ME2 had a conversation between him and his sister talking about medical treatments for her.

Did they ever say if she died or not? Or is it just assumed that she did?

Wasn't his dad not active anymore? Also Garrus was quite evasive on that topic so I think Shep hit something there...

Does not being active make you exempt from serving your people? That doesnt sound like the turian way.

[Unschuld]

byne wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Do you guys think the EC will shed light on the origin of the reapers and their motives?

I kinda hope not, to be honest.

I always liked the Reapers when they were just an unstoppable force that we could not possibly comprehend.

Learning more about them would take away from that.

N-no... It is not a thing you can comprehend.

[byne]

Corik wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...


[snip]

OK.

So riddle me this:

My game ends with Shepard taking a breath in a pile of rubble.

How in the name of serenading Hanars is that possible if my Shepard was physically present in the Citadel/Crucible/in general not on planet Earth when he decided to destroy the Geth + Crucible + Mass Relays + all Reaper tech ever?

People who write sci-fi for a living cannot fail physics that badly.

Seriously. Just explain me this. How did he make it back Earthside? How isn't he squished by the rubble from the Citadel/Crucible?

EDIT Whoa what killed that formatting?

Even without the luxery of having a scientific consultant (couldn't find anything about whether the ME team has one) it should be clear that a chance for surviving this is non-existent.

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

I always thought Shepard was "just" floating in space. I even remember some conversations saying that. There wouldn't be any Shepard remains if he impacts a planet. In fact, I don't think he would even impact the surface of the planet. In any case... It's still imposible to survive a fall from the Citadel to the Earth (and I'm sure it's even imposible to survive the explosion).

Except you can find Shepard's helmet in the Normandy Crash Site debris and even bring it back as a decoration for your cabin in ME2, so unless she took her helmet off in space, and threw it down there, she definitely fell.

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

byne wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Yup, remember Tali is an Admiral (or at least can be)

Is Garrus' rank ever really explained, other than 'leader of anti-Reaper task force'?

Because like Shep said, even generals were saluting him.

No, not really, but it's implied he would be the next Primarch.

Implied by Shepard, not by Garrus, if I remember correctly.

Garrus' dad surely outranks him, and he's still alive.

Speaking of Garrus' family, did they ever mention his mom?

I remember the Shadow Broker files in ME2 had a conversation between him and his sister talking about medical treatments for her.

Did they ever say if she died or not? Or is it just assumed that she did?

Wasn't his dad not active anymore? Also Garrus was quite evasive on that topic so I think Shep hit something there...

Does not being active make you exempt from serving your people? That doesnt sound like the turian way.

Sounds like the Turian general you can dust off (and maybe later kill in ME3)

[MegumiAzusa]

byne wrote...

Corik wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...


[snip]

OK.

So riddle me this:

My game ends with Shepard taking a breath in a pile of rubble.

How in the name of serenading Hanars is that possible if my Shepard was physically present in the Citadel/Crucible/in general not on planet Earth when he decided to destroy the Geth + Crucible + Mass Relays + all Reaper tech ever?

People who write sci-fi for a living cannot fail physics that badly.

Seriously. Just explain me this. How did he make it back Earthside? How isn't he squished by the rubble from the Citadel/Crucible?

EDIT Whoa what killed that formatting?

Even without the luxery of having a scientific consultant (couldn't find anything about whether the ME team has one) it should be clear that a chance for surviving this is non-existent.

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

I always thought Shepard was "just" floating in space. I even remember some conversations saying that. There wouldn't be any Shepard remains if he impacts a planet. In fact, I don't think he would even impact the surface of the planet. In any case... It's still imposible to survive a fall from the Citadel to the Earth (and I'm sure it's even imposible to survive the explosion).

Except you can find Shepard's helmet in the Normandy Crash Site debris and even bring it back as a decoration for your cabin in ME2, so unless she took her helmet off in space, and threw it down there, she definitely fell.

I miss my room decorations from ME2... the helmet and the funny sphere.

[MissOuJ]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

That didnt work out like planned. Droid phones truly suck. What I wanted to say was, arent you at least a little curious about the reapers' origin?

Well, of course a little. But there are so many awesome explanations out there, why choose and canonize only one of them?

Also, the fact that we don't know makes it scary in my opinnion. What if they really are gods and people's only possibility to eternal life (so to speak)? Or are they just a really early, advanced AI that got in major conflict withtheir organic creators and then annihilated them, after which they came to the conclusion (or calculation) that the only use there is to organics is to make them into DNA puree and maybe integrate them into the Reapers themselfs. Or maybe they're the Galaxy's gardeners that come to trim the edges a bit so they don't smother the undergrowth.

That's the sort of speculation I like.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 mai 2012 - 07:36 .

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

How exactly would Shepard being on the Crucible invalidate IT though?

That in no way changes the fact that according to IT, it is still just a hallucination.

Whether its a dream or not, Shepard knows the Crucible has been built by humans and geth. Either she's actually seeing it or its her imagining it.

Either way, she has a holographic display of the Crucible, and has Liara to talk about the Crucible with. Shep likely knows the basic design of the Crucible, so would accurately be able to reconstruct it in a hallucination.

It could be a hallucination just as easily as Shep could really be there.

Though I respect your opinion that it disproves IT completely for you, I disagree with it.

Anyways, hopefully your change of stance to anti-IT doesnt mean you'll stop visiting the thread or start acting like the anti-IT trolls that come in here.

I'd hate to have to find another person to hold up as my example of a rational person that disagrees with IT.

Among all of the other issues I have with it that I won't into right now, Shepard being on the Crucible is the last one and here's why.

Shepard has the design of the crucbile during construction and when it is complete yes, but he does not have the design of the Citadel in his head. He even admits that he's never been to this part of the Citadel. The construction of the Citadel would also imply that Shepard knows how the Crucible will work. This is also not true since no one knows how it works until Shepard picks a choice.

There's also The Catalyst. He says the crucible changed him, creating new possibilities. He's refereing to the control, destroy and synthesis options. If the tube and control handles are part of the Citadel's design, then there was no change to the Citadel. Those options where already there. This leads me to believe that the options themselves are foreign to the Citadel.

Then there's the breath scene, where we find cables, blocks of stone like material and a few unidentifiable objects. Those objects would actually belong to the crucible, which is still attached to the Citadel.

Hellish before you repost that picture, think about this. After the explostion, there is what seems to be black smoke all over the center. This smoke actually covers the crucible, it's arms and the Citadel tower. Since the Citadel is made of material that can withstand supernovas, how does that small explosion vaporize the entire Citadel Tower?

Also, don't worry, I'm not going to troll. I'll still visit with an open mind and will gladly debate with you guys. My opinion on the members of this thread has not changed.

[excelon]

byne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

They even specifically go out of their way to tell you (via the recordings on Cronos Station) that the only reason they could bring Shep back in ME2 at all was because her brain was protected by her helmet.

You'll recall she had no helmet at the end.

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

[byne]

MegumiAzusa wrote...


I miss my room decorations from ME2... the helmet and the funny sphere.

I was always sad that when she came to my cabin in LotSB, Liara was in no way impressed by the prothean sphere I had.

You think she'd have been beside herself with excitement seeing such an interesting prothean artifact, but nope. Doesnt even mention it.

[balance5050]

It's sad really.... not even literalists will believe that Shep was on the crucible.

[paxxton]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

That didnt work out like planned. Droid phones truly suck. What I wanted to say was, arent you at least a little curious about the reapers' origin?

Of course, we are. It'd be great if BioWare revealed it in the EC. This might be the case if we get to destroy the Reapers once and for all. Otherwise, it'll be left a mystery.

Modifié par paxxton, 25 mai 2012 - 07:38 .

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

How exactly would Shepard being on the Crucible invalidate IT though?

That in no way changes the fact that according to IT, it is still just a hallucination.

Whether its a dream or not, Shepard knows the Crucible has been built by humans and geth. Either she's actually seeing it or its her imagining it.

Either way, she has a holographic display of the Crucible, and has Liara to talk about the Crucible with. Shep likely knows the basic design of the Crucible, so would accurately be able to reconstruct it in a hallucination.

It could be a hallucination just as easily as Shep could really be there.

Though I respect your opinion that it disproves IT completely for you, I disagree with it.

Anyways, hopefully your change of stance to anti-IT doesnt mean you'll stop visiting the thread or start acting like the anti-IT trolls that come in here.

I'd hate to have to find another person to hold up as my example of a rational person that disagrees with IT.

Among all of the other issues I have with it that I won't into right now, Shepard being on the Crucible is the last one and here's why.

Shepard has the design of the crucbile during construction and when it is complete yes, but he does not have the design of the Citadel in his head. He even admits that he's never been to this part of the Citadel. The construction of the Citadel would also imply that Shepard knows how the Crucible will work. This is also not true since no one knows how it works until Shepard picks a choice.

There's also The Catalyst. He says the crucible changed him, creating new possibilities. He's refereing to the control, destroy and synthesis options. If the tube and control handles are part of the Citadel's design, then there was no change to the Citadel. Those options where already there. This leads me to believe that the options themselves are foreign to the Citadel.

Then there's the breath scene, where we find cables, blocks of stone like material and a few unidentifiable objects. Those objects would actually belong to the crucible, which is still attached to the Citadel.

Hellish before you repost that picture, think about this. After the explostion, there is what seems to be black smoke all over the center. This smoke actually covers the crucible, it's arms and the Citadel tower. Since the Citadel is made of material that can withstand supernovas, how does that small explosion vaporize the entire Citadel Tower?

Also, don't worry, I'm not going to troll. I'll still visit with an open mind and will gladly debate with you guys. My opinion on the members of this thread has not changed.

But when Shepard asks the Catalyst where he is The Catalyst answers "The Citadel. It's my home."

Modifié par paxxton, 25 mai 2012 - 07:46 .

[MissOuJ]

excelon wrote...

byne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

They even specifically go out of their way to tell you (via the recordings on Cronos Station) that the only reason they could bring Shep back in ME2 at all was because her brain was protected by her helmet.

You'll recall she had no helmet at the end.

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

Disclaimer: I only did physics 101, so I'm speaking with very good authority here...

Isn't that assuming the planet Shepard crashed on has similar gravity + atmosphere to Earth? Maybe it was a smaller plannet with less dense atmosphere.

Don't get me wrong, surviving that would still be impossible (and it was - without the Lazarus Project s/he'd be dead for sure).

Maybe the Crash Site DLC helmet was a small error in continuity? Having Shepard literally fall from the sky into a planet and survive would be a way, way bigger error.

EDIT Went to check the crash planet's atm. pressure and mass (because I have nothing better to do on a Friday night, don't judge me): bigger mass than Earth, ~0.8 atm. pressure. So Shepard actually crashing on the planet is pure bull****.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 mai 2012 - 07:48 .

[byne]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

That didnt work out like planned. Droid phones truly suck. What I wanted to say was, arent you at least a little curious about the reapers' origin?

I personally doubt even the Reapers actually know. I figure the cycles have been going on so long, the original Reapers will have been destroyed by now.

Its like that experiment where they put a banana at the top of a ladder and then put 5 monkeys into the room with it.

Every time one of the monkeys went for the banana they all got sprayed with cold water, until eventually none of them ever tried to go for it.

Eventually they replaced one of the monkeys with a new one. Whenever it tried to go for the banana the other monkeys attacked him, not wanting to be sprayed. He eventually stopped going for the banana too.

They then replaced yet another of the original monkeys with a new one. When it tried going for the banana, all the monkeys attacked it, including the one who hadnt been sprayed.

They repeated this until no monkeys in the group had ever been sprayed, but they all knew to stay the **** away from the banana, and to attack any new monkey who tried to get it.


The reapers are kind of like those monkeys.

They know they have to kill organics every 50,000 years, but they dont exactly know why.

They just do it because thats the way its always been.

[balance5050]

paxxton wrote...

But when Shepard's asks the Catalyst where he is The Catalyst answers "The Citadel. It's my home."

Epyon is forgetting all kinds of details right now.

[MegumiAzusa]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

How exactly would Shepard being on the Crucible invalidate IT though?

That in no way changes the fact that according to IT, it is still just a hallucination.

Whether its a dream or not, Shepard knows the Crucible has been built by humans and geth. Either she's actually seeing it or its her imagining it.

Either way, she has a holographic display of the Crucible, and has Liara to talk about the Crucible with. Shep likely knows the basic design of the Crucible, so would accurately be able to reconstruct it in a hallucination.

It could be a hallucination just as easily as Shep could really be there.

Though I respect your opinion that it disproves IT completely for you, I disagree with it.

Anyways, hopefully your change of stance to anti-IT doesnt mean you'll stop visiting the thread or start acting like the anti-IT trolls that come in here.

I'd hate to have to find another person to hold up as my example of a rational person that disagrees with IT.

Among all of the other issues I have with it that I won't into right now, Shepard being on the Crucible is the last one and here's why.

Shepard has the design of the crucbile during construction and when it is complete yes, but he does not have the design of the Citadel in his head. He even admits that he's never been to this part of the Citadel. The construction of the Citadel would also imply that Shepard knows how the Crucible will work. This is also not true since no one knows how it works until Shepard picks a choice.

There's also The Catalyst. He says the crucible changed him, creating new possibilities. He's refereing to the control, destroy and synthesis options. If the tube and control handles are part of the Citadel's design, then there was no change to the Citadel. Those options where already there. This leads me to believe that the options themselves are foreign to the Citadel.

Then there's the breath scene, where we find cables, blocks of stone like material and a few unidentifiable objects. Those objects would actually belong to the crucible, which is still attached to the Citadel.

Hellish before you repost that picture, think about this. After the explostion, there is what seems to be black smoke all over the center. This smoke actually covers the crucible, it's arms and the Citadel tower. Since the Citadel is made of material that can withstand supernovas, how does that small explosion vaporize the entire Citadel Tower?

Also, don't worry, I'm not going to troll. I'll still visit with an open mind and will gladly debate with you guys. My opinion on the members of this thread has not changed.

Bolded parts are disproved.

[Unschuld]

excelon wrote...

byne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

They even specifically go out of their way to tell you (via the recordings on Cronos Station) that the only reason they could bring Shep back in ME2 at all was because her brain was protected by her helmet.

You'll recall she had no helmet at the end.

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns. 

Find me evidence. This is your challenge, should you choose to accept.

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

But when Shepard's asks the Catalyst where he is The Catalyst answers "The Citadel. It's my home."

Epyon is forgetting all kinds of details right now.

Technically he is. The decision chamber is now a part of the Citadel. The catalyst also says the" Citdadel is part of me."

Since this part is now part of the Citadel, the catalyst considers it part of the Citadel and therefore part of him.

[paxxton]

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

But when Shepard's asks the Catalyst where he is The Catalyst answers "The Citadel. It's my home."

Epyon is forgetting all kinds of details right now.

Well, maybe, but we already know that The Catalyst is a liar.

[dreamgazer]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

That didnt work out like planned. Droid phones truly suck. What I wanted to say was, arent you at least a little curious about the reapers' origin?

In so many words, no.

The metaphysical and practical horrors you can create in your head over their origins are probably far worse than what the writers could ascribe them to be.  Let your mind wander at why they're there.

The story still retained enough of that, even though they made them the product of the catalyst and gave them a not-so-malignant "purpose", but explaining any further would start to really chip away at that.  

I still think that some of the scariest and more-effective villains are the ones that do what they do while fueled by a positive intention that we can meagerly comprehend (hence why we love TIM as much as we do), and I kinda already had an outline of their "purpose" when Soverign mentioned the structured cycle in the Virmire conversation.  Whether it's due to conditioning via other science-fiction outlets is unknown. 

I'm good, at this point.  Nothing else needed.