55528 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

MissOuJ wrote...

excelon wrote...

byne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

They even specifically go out of their way to tell you (via the recordings on Cronos Station) that the only reason they could bring Shep back in ME2 at all was because her brain was protected by her helmet.

You'll recall she had no helmet at the end.

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

Disclaimer: I only did physics 101, so I'm speaking with very good authority here...

Isn't that assuming the planet Shepard crashed on has similar gravity + atmosphere to Earth? Maybe it was a smaller plannet with less dense atmosphere.

Don't get me wrong, surviving that would still be impossible (and it was - without the Lazarus Project s/he'd be dead for sure).

Maybe the Crash Site DLC helmet was a small error in continuity? Having Shepard literally fall from the sky into a planet and survive would be a way, way bigger error.

Except Shep didnt survive. Jacob in ME2 says you were nothing but meat and tubes when he first saw you, or something along those lines, which isnt something that would happen just from hanging out in orbit for a while, and the scientist in the Cronos Station logs says Shep was clinically brain dead when they recovered her body, and that the only reason your brain was intact enough was because the helmet protected it. Again, you dont really need much head protection in orbit.

[balance5050]

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

byne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

They even specifically go out of their way to tell you (via the recordings on Cronos Station) that the only reason they could bring Shep back in ME2 at all was because her brain was protected by her helmet.

You'll recall she had no helmet at the end.

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns. 

Find me evidence. This is your challenge, should you choose to accept.

What? The very beginning of ME2 shows him literally falling to the planet. He burns like a falling star....


Edit, you are right, he did actually die from the vacuum. He was still just a charred sack of broken bones though.

Modifié par balance5050, 25 mai 2012 - 07:57 .

[HyperGlass]

Hello chaps and chappesses. What have I missed?

[BatmanTurian]

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

byne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

They even specifically go out of their way to tell you (via the recordings on Cronos Station) that the only reason they could bring Shep back in ME2 at all was because her brain was protected by her helmet.

You'll recall she had no helmet at the end.

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns. 

Find me evidence. This is your challenge, should you choose to accept.

The evidence is in the prologue of ME2 when shepard stops struggling for air and starts burning up in Alchera's atmosphere. It means Shepard is falling and creating friction with the atmosphere, otherwise Shepard would just orbit the planet. Not to mention that the explosion of the Normandy SR1 sent her careening toward the planet's surface.

Sometimes I feel like some people didn't even play the same games I did.

[MissOuJ]

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns.

Ohh, I remember that! Good catch!

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

But when Shepard's asks the Catalyst where he is The Catalyst answers "The Citadel. It's my home."

Epyon is forgetting all kinds of details right now.

Technically he is. The decision chamber is now a part of the Citadel. The catalyst also says the" Citdadel is part of me."

Since this part is now part of the Citadel, the catalyst considers it part of the Citadel and therefore part of him.

"The Citadel is part of me", "The crucible changed me".... He is referring as the citadel and the crucible as two separate entities....

Please stop this madness.... you're clearly in denial.

Modifié par balance5050, 25 mai 2012 - 07:55 .

[MaximizedAction]

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

byne wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Also: the writers had to introduce the Lazarus project to justify Shepard being 'revived' after reentry+planetary impact IN a somewhat covering suit. According to the literal interpretation, Shepard was basically in his undershirt.

They even specifically go out of their way to tell you (via the recordings on Cronos Station) that the only reason they could bring Shep back in ME2 at all was because her brain was protected by her helmet.

You'll recall she had no helmet at the end.

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns. 

Find me evidence. This is your challenge, should you choose to accept.

I agree that while I myself don't remember where Shepard's body was picked up (game+DLCs), maybe it's in the Redemption comic, but have yet to read it.

But what we DO see, is some sort of reentry tail in the ME2 intro cinematic, shortly before the camera moves away from the planet, the tail might imply the exterior parts of the atmosphere and there was a ship for some reason, waiting to catch Shep. But even that sounds odd from a physics standpoint.

No matter what, I thank the writers for including Shepard himself doubting whether he might be an advanced VI (ME3 Cronos vids).

[BatmanTurian]

MissOuJ wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns.

Ohh, I remember that! Good catch!

Yeah, Shepard's oxygen tubes got cut by shrapnel from the Normandy explosion, so Shepard was already asphyxiated by the time she hit the planet.

[Unschuld]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hellish before you repost that picture, think about this. After the explostion, there is what seems to be black smoke all over the center. This smoke actually covers the crucible, it's arms and the Citadel tower. Since the Citadel is made of material that can withstand supernovas, how does that small explosion vaporize the entire Citadel Tower?

Also, don't worry, I'm not going to troll. I'll still visit with an open mind and will gladly debate with you guys. My opinion on the members of this thread has not changed.

Because an explosion at ground zero is different than an explosion originating lightyears away. Tell me in which of these situations is the object in question more dead: A tank sitting several miles away from ground zero of a nuclear explosion, or a tank sitting directly on top of an IED made from a 2000lb standard bomb?

I think your theory here about the crucible thing is somewhat plausible, but I'm not sold on it.

Modifié par Unschuld, 25 mai 2012 - 07:57 .

[byne]

MaximizedAction wrote...

No matter what, I thank the writers for including Shepard himself doubting whether he might be an advanced VI (ME3 Cronos vids).

I always found that part to be somewhat silly. My Shepard slept with Liara after the LotSB stuff. Liara would have known if Shep was a VI since she literally links her mind with Shep's. It'd be hard to link your mind with a computer program without at least noticing something was off.

Its a good thing I always bring Liara along on the Cronos mission to remind Shep that she knew it was really her the first time she touched her again, otherwise Shep might start thinking more of those silly thoughts.

[MissOuJ]

byne wrote...

Except Shep didnt survive. Jacob in ME2 says you were nothing but meat and tubes when he first saw you, or something along those lines, which isnt something that would happen just from hanging out in orbit for a while, and the scientist in the Cronos Station logs says Shep was clinically brain dead when they recovered her body, and that the only reason your brain was intact enough was because the helmet protected it. Again, you dont really need much head protection in orbit.

But if Shepard had actually fallen to a planet, s/he'd not be "meat and tubes" at all. Meteorites, which are bigger and made from far sturdier stuff burn to nothing when entering an atmosphere. Shepard wouldn't even be a charred chunck of matter the size of a pea: s/he'd be scattered around the atmosphere in tiny little pieces. If that. S/he's probably be just line dust in the atmosphere.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 mai 2012 - 08:01 .

[Unschuld]

balance5050 wrote...
What? The very beginning of ME2 shows him literally falling to the planet. He burns like a falling star....


Edit, you are right, he did actually die from the vacuum. He was still just a charred sack of broken bones though.

I just watched the scene a few days ago when testing out ME2 on my PC. I did not see him actually start to light up as if he was entering atmo. To me, the camera just looks like it's panning away from him as he zooms off into space, in orbit. Yes, the camera angle is tricky and might look like Shepard is falling planetside, but I don't see it that way.

Modifié par Unschuld, 25 mai 2012 - 08:02 .

[Hiredguns23]

Color me impress Byne for keep this going on for this long lol.

[MaximizedAction]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns.

Ohh, I remember that! Good catch!

Yeah, Shepard's oxygen tubes got cut by shrapnel from the Normandy explosion, so Shepard was already asphyxiated by the time she hit the planet.

Add to that the cut dialog between Shepard and Ash about his death. He would've described what he felt during that and it was paing from air being forced out of his lungs. So he suffocated before reentry.

But hey, don't forget how Shepard and his squad survived scrap crashing into the Citadel tower at the end of ME1. So...meh...

[paxxton]

Unschuld wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
What? The very beginning of ME2 shows him literally falling to the planet. He burns like a falling star....


Edit, you are right, he did actually die from the vacuum. He was still just a charred sack of broken bones though.

I just watched the scene a few days ago when testing out ME2 on my PC. I did not see him actually start to light up as if he was entering atmo. To me, the camera just looks like it's panning away from him as he zooms off into space, in orbit.

He does burn. There is a barely visible smear of redness (boiling blood?) coming out of his suit.

Modifié par paxxton, 25 mai 2012 - 08:06 .

[byne]

MissOuJ wrote...

byne wrote...

Except Shep didnt survive. Jacob in ME2 says you were nothing but meat and tubes when he first saw you, or something along those lines, which isnt something that would happen just from hanging out in orbit for a while, and the scientist in the Cronos Station logs says Shep was clinically brain dead when they recovered her body, and that the only reason your brain was intact enough was because the helmet protected it. Again, you dont really need much head protection in orbit.

But if Shepard had actually fallen to a planet, s/he'd not be "meat and tubes" at all. Meteorites, which are bigger and made from far sturdier stuff burn to nothing when entering an atmosphere. Shepard wouldn't even be a charred chunck of matter the size of a pea: s/he'd be scattered around the atmosphere in tiny little pieces.

Shep's barriers were still active and her armor can withstand fairly high temperatures.

If Shep had simply been orbiting the planet, why would her body itself have even been damaged at all? Why would they have needed to replace so many of her body parts with cybernetics? 

[HyperGlass]

@Unschuld
I've seen that scene so many times and I can say that just when the camera starts to pan out Shep is glowing to a degree.

[balance5050]

Unschuld wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
What? The very beginning of ME2 shows him literally falling to the planet. He burns like a falling star....


Edit, you are right, he did actually die from the vacuum. He was still just a charred sack of broken bones though.

I just watched the scene a few days ago when testing out ME2 on my PC. I did not see him actually start to light up as if he was entering atmo. To me, the camera just looks like it's panning away from him as he zooms off into space, in orbit.

It's either light or dust that comes off of him, but he is emmiting a light yellow aura as he falls....

http://www.youtube.c..._m36pEpA#t=478s

Modifié par balance5050, 25 mai 2012 - 08:06 .

[balance5050]

MaximizedAction wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns.

Ohh, I remember that! Good catch!

Yeah, Shepard's oxygen tubes got cut by shrapnel from the Normandy explosion, so Shepard was already asphyxiated by the time she hit the planet.

Add to that the cut dialog between Shepard and Ash about his death. He would've described what he felt during that and it was paing from air being forced out of his lungs. So he suffocated before reentry.

But hey, don't forget how Shepard and his squad survived scrap crashing into the Citadel tower at the end of ME1. So...meh...

Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

Modifié par balance5050, 25 mai 2012 - 08:07 .

[EpyonX3]

Unschuld wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Hellish before you repost that picture, think about this. After the explostion, there is what seems to be black smoke all over the center. This smoke actually covers the crucible, it's arms and the Citadel tower. Since the Citadel is made of material that can withstand supernovas, how does that small explosion vaporize the entire Citadel Tower?

Also, don't worry, I'm not going to troll. I'll still visit with an open mind and will gladly debate with you guys. My opinion on the members of this thread has not changed.

Because an explosion at ground zero is different than an explosion originating lightyears away. Tell me in which of these situations is the object in question more dead: A tank sitting several miles away from ground zero of a nuclear explosion, or a tank sitting directly on top of an IED made from a 2000lb standard bomb?

I think your theory here about the crucible thing is somewhat plausible, but I'm not sold on it.

I understand your point, but did that explosion also vaporize the outer ring that the arms connect to? They were not that much further away. And since that ring is still in tact before the camera cuts away, the arms of the crucible should still be able to survive.

Let's not get into this too much. There's very little in that scene for me to continue without speculating.

[Unschuld]

HyperGlass wrote...

@Unschuld
I've seen that scene so many times and I can say that just when the camera starts to pan out Shep is glowing to a degree.

The "sun" is rising correction: setting over the planet as the camera pans. There is a blink of light as Shepard tumbles away, which might not be burning, but merely a reflection. Besides, the angle which he gets blasted away from the Normandy isn't straight towards the planet, but the horizon.

http://www.youtube.c...k7hwbrRc#t=413s

I could very well be wrong, but I find the fact that it's never specifically stated that he reenters atmo, he's propelled FAR away from the Normandy wreckage where you find the helmet, and surviving (physically, not alive/dead) reentry just being too hard to believe pushes me away from that idea.

Modifié par Unschuld, 25 mai 2012 - 08:13 .

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns.

Ohh, I remember that! Good catch!

Yeah, Shepard's oxygen tubes got cut by shrapnel from the Normandy explosion, so Shepard was already asphyxiated by the time she hit the planet.

Add to that the cut dialog between Shepard and Ash about his death. He would've described what he felt during that and it was paing from air being forced out of his lungs. So he suffocated before reentry.

But hey, don't forget how Shepard and his squad survived scrap crashing into the Citadel tower at the end of ME1. So...meh...

Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

thx!

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 25 mai 2012 - 08:10 .

[byne]

balance5050 wrote...



Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

Ugh. That very last line.

Of bloody course it matters!

This is what bugs me about RvB and Futurama.

Spoilers for those two ahead, obviously.



In the more recent seasons of Red vs Blue, it hasnt been the Church or the Tex we knew the first 6 seasons, but copies of them with all their memories.

In the Futurama episode with the forward only time machine, they eventually get back to what is technically the correct time, but its like three iterations of the universe later. Except for Bender, Fry, and the Professor, none of the characters from that episode on are the ones we actually knew from all the previous episodes, but exact copies of them with the same memories.

While that distinction may not matter much to others, it matters to me, and that kind of crap always bugs me.

Modifié par byne, 25 mai 2012 - 08:13 .

[MissOuJ]

byne wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

byne wrote...

Except Shep didnt survive. Jacob in ME2 says you were nothing but meat and tubes when he first saw you, or something along those lines, which isnt something that would happen just from hanging out in orbit for a while, and the scientist in the Cronos Station logs says Shep was clinically brain dead when they recovered her body, and that the only reason your brain was intact enough was because the helmet protected it. Again, you dont really need much head protection in orbit.

But if Shepard had actually fallen to a planet, s/he'd not be "meat and tubes" at all. Meteorites, which are bigger and made from far sturdier stuff burn to nothing when entering an atmosphere. Shepard wouldn't even be a charred chunck of matter the size of a pea: s/he'd be scattered around the atmosphere in tiny little pieces.

Shep's barriers were still active and her armor can withstand fairly high temperatures.

If Shep had simply been orbiting the planet, why would her body itself have even been damaged at all? Why would they have needed to replace so many of her body parts with cybernetics? 

Her body would have extensive tissue damage due to cut circulation, plus possible injuries from the burning scrap from the Normandy hull she got after she suffocated. Also, don't shields only protect towards objects approaching in certain speed? So no help against burning in the atmosphere. I also don't believe the suit can take +20k temperatures. Plus the impact upon entry on the planet's surface. Even without the atmosphere burning her to dust, she'd be nothing but a small wet heap of bloody jelly.

But even if the writers mean to say Shepard's body actually crashed Alchera and she survived, I'm supposed to believe Shepard survived the same. Again. With badly damaged armor and no helmet, after surviving a ground zero blast that took apart the Citadel?

Umm... no. ME2 I can maybe, maybe forgive because of the Lazarus project (and even then, I'm a bit sceptical) but that I won't believe.

[BatmanTurian]

balance5050 wrote...


Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

That scene is really touching and actually makes me like Ashley a little more. But I understand why they cut it, what with the religious implications.