55528 réponses à ce sujet

[EpyonX3]

MaximizedAction wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns.

Ohh, I remember that! Good catch!

Yeah, Shepard's oxygen tubes got cut by shrapnel from the Normandy explosion, so Shepard was already asphyxiated by the time she hit the planet.

Add to that the cut dialog between Shepard and Ash about his death. He would've described what he felt during that and it was paing from air being forced out of his lungs. So he suffocated before reentry.

But hey, don't forget how Shepard and his squad survived scrap crashing into the Citadel tower at the end of ME1. So...meh...

I brought this up in another forum before. That was one of Soverign's legs. It crashed through the tower, exposing them to the vacuum of space that they were just out in. They lived long enough for Anderson and others to make it up there.

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...



Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

Ugh. That very last line.

Of bloody course it matters!

This is what bugs me about RvB and Futurama.

Spoilers for those two ahead, obviously.



In the more recent seasons of Red vs Blue, it hasnt been the Church we knew the first 6 seasons, but a copy of him with all his memories.

In the Futurama episode with the forward only time machine, they eventually get back to what is technically the correct time, but its like three iterations of the universe later. Except for Bender, Fry, and the Professor, none of the characters from that episode on are the ones we actually knew from all the previous episodes, but exact copies of them with the same memories.

While that distinction may not matter much to others, it matters to me, and that kind of crap always bugs me.

It may matter to you but, if my wife died and came back but was some copy, I'd just be glad to have her back if the copy was close enough. It's just human nature, I think, to want that person to be the one you loved even if you know they might not be the exact individual you once spent time with.

[byne]

BatmanTurian wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

That scene is really touching and actually makes me like Ashley a little more. But I understand why they cut it, what with the religious implications.

Why, because ME suddenly became shy discussing religion?

When Benezia dies she talks about how she doesnt see a light, and was always told there would be a light, and Mordin flat out says the Bible is just mythology.

I dont see why they'd shy away from dialogue that doesnt really say anything either way about religion, other than that Shep never actually saw the afterlife, if it existed.

[dreamgazer]

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

thx!

I don't care if you're an atheist or believer, it's criminal that this dialogue was cut---and it applies well to both sides.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 25 mai 2012 - 08:17 .

[EpyonX3]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

But when Shepard's asks the Catalyst where he is The Catalyst answers "The Citadel. It's my home."

Epyon is forgetting all kinds of details right now.

Technically he is. The decision chamber is now a part of the Citadel. The catalyst also says the" Citdadel is part of me."

Since this part is now part of the Citadel, the catalyst considers it part of the Citadel and therefore part of him.

"The Citadel is part of me", "The crucible changed me".... He is referring as the citadel and the crucible as two separate entities....

Please stop this madness.... you're clearly in denial.

Because essentially they still are. Ok how about this. I'll stop talking about this because I don't want to cause too much disturbance and I'll consider making a thread about it. I don't want this to lead into a snark fest lol.

[Unschuld]

MissOuJ wrote...

byne wrote...


Shep's barriers were still active and her armor can withstand fairly high temperatures.

If Shep had simply been orbiting the planet, why would her body itself have even been damaged at all? Why would they have needed to replace so many of her body parts with cybernetics? 

Her body would have extensive tissue damage due to cut circulation, plus possible injuries from the burning scrap from the Normandy hull she got after she suffocated. Also, don't shields only protect towards objects approaching in certain speed? So no help against burning in the atmosphere. I also don't believe the suit can take +20k temperatures. Plus the impact upon entry on the planet's surface. Even without the atmosphere burning her to dust, she'd be nothing but a small wet heap of bloody jelly.

But even if the writers mean to say Shepard's body actually crashed Alchera and she survived, I'm supposed to believe Shepard survived the same. Again. With badly damaged armor and no helmet, after surviving a ground zero blast that took apart the Citadel?

Umm... no. ME2 I can maybe, maybe forgive because of the Lazarus project (and even then, I'm a bit sceptical) but that I won't believe.

You ninja'd me. Yeah, the whole point I brought this up for discussion was a way to shoot down any thought that Shepard is lying in London rubble "because he survived reentry once, he can do it again". Surviving a ground zero explosion like that and waking up in citadel rubble is almost as ludicrous. 

[MaximizedAction]

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns.

Ohh, I remember that! Good catch!

Yeah, Shepard's oxygen tubes got cut by shrapnel from the Normandy explosion, so Shepard was already asphyxiated by the time she hit the planet.

Add to that the cut dialog between Shepard and Ash about his death. He would've described what he felt during that and it was paing from air being forced out of his lungs. So he suffocated before reentry.

But hey, don't forget how Shepard and his squad survived scrap crashing into the Citadel tower at the end of ME1. So...meh...

I brought this up in another forum before. That was one of Soverign's legs. It crashed through the tower, exposing them to the vacuum of space that they were just out in. They lived long enough for Anderson and others to make it up there.

Though I could accept the explaination:
The Citadel has very advanced security systems, one of which is among the most important for a huge space station: shield that go up the moment the hull is damaged. See how Star Trek Nemesis imagined it.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 25 mai 2012 - 08:19 .

[BatmanTurian]

Unschuld wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

@Unschuld
I've seen that scene so many times and I can say that just when the camera starts to pan out Shep is glowing to a degree.

The "sun" is rising correction: setting over the planet as the camera pans. There is a blink of light as Shepard tumbles away, which might not be burning, but merely a reflection. Besides, the angle which he gets blasted away from the Normandy isn't straight towards the planet, but the horizon.

http://www.youtube.c...k7hwbrRc#t=413s

I could very well be wrong, but I find the fact that it's never specifically stated that he reenters atmo, he's propelled FAR away from the Normandy wreckage where you find the helmet, and surviving (physically, not alive/dead) reentry just being too hard to believe pushes me away from that idea.

I think you're in denial, because the scene specifically shows Shepard being propelled toward the planet and bursting into flame on her backside as she's falling into the upper atmosphere. The planet has a thinner atmosphere and lower gravity than earth. Shepard has full armor and kenetic barriers. It is possible that parts of her would still be intact and they would be preserved on a frozen world like that.

[byne]

BatmanTurian wrote...


It may matter to you but, if my wife died and came back but was some copy, I'd just be glad to have her back if the copy was close enough. It's just human nature, I think, to want that person to be the one you loved even if you know they might not be the exact individual you once spent time with.

But the thing is, would that copy of your wife legitimately have the same feelings your real wife had for you, or would she only have them because she's a copy of your wife, and basically programmed to have them?

I'm never gonna be able to accept copies as the real person, no matter how perfect the copy is, and I wish shows I watched would stop pulling that crap.

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

That scene is really touching and actually makes me like Ashley a little more. But I understand why they cut it, what with the religious implications.

Why, because ME suddenly became shy discussing religion?

When Benezia dies she talks about how she doesnt see a light, and was always told there would be a light, and Mordin flat out says the Bible is just mythology.

I dont see why they'd shy away from dialogue that doesnt really say anything either way about religion, other than that Shep never actually saw the afterlife, if it existed.

I know, it doesn't make sense, but maybe flat out saying there is no afterlife by Shepard might have been too much. I don't believe in an afterlife so I'm not offended but I could see how some people might be.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 25 mai 2012 - 08:21 .

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


It may matter to you but, if my wife died and came back but was some copy, I'd just be glad to have her back if the copy was close enough. It's just human nature, I think, to want that person to be the one you loved even if you know they might not be the exact individual you once spent time with.

But the thing is, would that copy of your wife legitimately have the same feelings your real wife had for you, or would she only have them because she's a copy of your wife, and basically programmed to have them?

I'm never gonna be able to accept copies as the real person, no matter how perfect the copy is, and I wish shows I watched would stop pulling that crap.

I see what you mean and agree to a certain extent. But I think it's hard to know how I would really feel in that moment.

[EpyonX3]

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns.

Ohh, I remember that! Good catch!

Yeah, Shepard's oxygen tubes got cut by shrapnel from the Normandy explosion, so Shepard was already asphyxiated by the time she hit the planet.

Add to that the cut dialog between Shepard and Ash about his death. He would've described what he felt during that and it was paing from air being forced out of his lungs. So he suffocated before reentry.

But hey, don't forget how Shepard and his squad survived scrap crashing into the Citadel tower at the end of ME1. So...meh...

I brought this up in another forum before. That was one of Soverign's legs. It crashed through the tower, exposing them to the vacuum of space that they were just out in. They lived long enough for Anderson and others to make it up there.

Though I could accept the explaination:
The Citadel has very advanced security systems, one of which is among the most important for a huge space station: shield that go up the moment the hull is damaged. See how Star Trek Nemesis imagined it.

Of course but then you have to take into account that systems were failing at the time and the situation wasn't improving until Sovereign was dead for sure. Also, those kinetic barries are useless...

[byne]

BatmanTurian wrote...

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

That scene is really touching and actually makes me like Ashley a little more. But I understand why they cut it, what with the religious implications.

Why, because ME suddenly became shy discussing religion?

When Benezia dies she talks about how she doesnt see a light, and was always told there would be a light, and Mordin flat out says the Bible is just mythology.

I dont see why they'd shy away from dialogue that doesnt really say anything either way about religion, other than that Shep never actually saw the afterlife, if it existed.

I know, it doesn't make sense, but maybe flat out saying there is no afterlife by Shepard might have been too much. I don't believe in an afterlife so I'm not offended but I could see how some people might be.

Well theres like three or four times Shep implies she believes the afterlife does exist in ME3, and as an atheist that didnt bother me.

If Shepard implying once that the afterlife doesnt exist bothers religious people, then their beliefs must be pretty shaky if a fictional character saying the afterlife doesnt exist can bother them.

[Unschuld]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I think you're in denial, because the scene specifically shows Shepard being propelled toward the planet and bursting into flame on her backside as she's falling into the upper atmosphere. The planet has a thinner atmosphere and lower gravity than earth. Shepard has full armor and kenetic barriers. It is possible that parts of her would still be intact and they would be preserved on a frozen world like that.

The same could be said for most members of this thread, since they don't take the scenes we're given literally. It's not denial, just a hypothesis. Like I said, show me a line of dialogue/something that shows Shepard did in fact fall planetside. Or ask a dev.

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

excelon wrote...

I think he would have disintegrated. I know for a fact that entering the atmosphere, temperatures get close to 20,000K which is more than enough to melt steel or disintigrate all of shepard. He would have definitely been gone if they stuck to true Physics. But then again it is a video game.

I don't think Shepard has ever been through reentry, not even in ME2. Find me a specific statement that says Shepard fell through Alchera's atmosphere and landed planetside. No, finding an N7 helmet doesn't count because the possibility of owning a spare helmet FAR exceeds the believability of surviving reentry. The only statements I remember on the Project Lazerus base were from Miranda stating that bringing Shepard back to life was proving difficult due to prolonged exposure to vacuum. NOT reentry burns.

Ohh, I remember that! Good catch!

Yeah, Shepard's oxygen tubes got cut by shrapnel from the Normandy explosion, so Shepard was already asphyxiated by the time she hit the planet.

Add to that the cut dialog between Shepard and Ash about his death. He would've described what he felt during that and it was paing from air being forced out of his lungs. So he suffocated before reentry.

But hey, don't forget how Shepard and his squad survived scrap crashing into the Citadel tower at the end of ME1. So...meh...

I brought this up in another forum before. That was one of Soverign's legs. It crashed through the tower, exposing them to the vacuum of space that they were just out in. They lived long enough for Anderson and others to make it up there.

Though I could accept the explaination:
The Citadel has very advanced security systems, one of which is among the most important for a huge space station: shield that go up the moment the hull is damaged. See how Star Trek Nemesis imagined it.

Of course but then you have to take into account that systems were failing at the time and the situation wasn't improving until Sovereign was dead for sure. Also, those kinetic barries are useless...

No, they can hold in oxygen or at least some atmosphere. Joker is behind one in the cockpit at the beginning of ME2 during the collector attack. It's the only thing keeping him from being exposed to vaccum.

[byne]

BatmanTurian wrote...


No, they can hold in oxygen or at least some atmosphere. Joker is behind one in the cockpit at the beginning of ME2 during the collector attack. It's the only thing keeping him from being exposed to vaccum.

I thought he also had that snazzy little breathmask

[BatmanTurian]

Unschuld wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I think you're in denial, because the scene specifically shows Shepard being propelled toward the planet and bursting into flame on her backside as she's falling into the upper atmosphere. The planet has a thinner atmosphere and lower gravity than earth. Shepard has full armor and kenetic barriers. It is possible that parts of her would still be intact and they would be preserved on a frozen world like that.

The same could be said for most members of this thread, since they don't take the scenes we're given literally. It's not denial, just a hypothesis. Like I said, show me a line of dialogue/something that shows Shepard did in fact fall planetside. Or ask a dev.

I am taking it literally. you are the one making things up. I watched Shepard being propelled into the atmosphere of the planet. I watched her start to burn up in the atmosphere. It's just common sense that once you're burning up in the atmosphere, you're deep in the planet's gravity well and it's pulling you to the surface. Physics 101.

[balance5050]

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Of course but then you have to take into account that systems were failing at the time and the situation wasn't improving until Sovereign was dead for sure. Also, those kinetic barries are useless...

No, they can hold in oxygen or at least some atmosphere. Joker is behind one in the cockpit at the beginning of ME2 during the collector attack. It's the only thing keeping him from being exposed to vaccum.

And that was still just Alliance/ Turian tech. The stuff we have currently in the game would surpass that old junk from ME1.

[MissOuJ]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I think you're in denial, because the scene specifically shows Shepard being propelled toward the planet and bursting into flame on her backside as she's falling into the upper atmosphere. The planet has a thinner atmosphere and lower gravity than earth. Shepard has full armor and kenetic barriers. It is possible that parts of her would still be intact and they would be preserved on a frozen world like that.

It's still 0.85g, 0.8 atmp + 1.7 Earth mass. Also, Kinetic barries wouldn't help, because they protect you from projectiles coming towards you in certain velocity, not burning. So Shepard's safe from small pieces of space rubble surrounding the planet, but it doesn't help against burning. And I don't care how good Shepard's armor is, it wound't protect him form the burning. Also, what's going to help him with the landing?

And even if he survived that, there's no way he'd survive reentry again with no helmet and badly damaged armor after surviving a ground zero blast that blew up the Citadel!

[EpyonX3]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

@Unschuld
I've seen that scene so many times and I can say that just when the camera starts to pan out Shep is glowing to a degree.

The "sun" is rising correction: setting over the planet as the camera pans. There is a blink of light as Shepard tumbles away, which might not be burning, but merely a reflection. Besides, the angle which he gets blasted away from the Normandy isn't straight towards the planet, but the horizon.

http://www.youtube.c...k7hwbrRc#t=413s

I could very well be wrong, but I find the fact that it's never specifically stated that he reenters atmo, he's propelled FAR away from the Normandy wreckage where you find the helmet, and surviving (physically, not alive/dead) reentry just being too hard to believe pushes me away from that idea.

I think you're in denial, because the scene specifically shows Shepard being propelled toward the planet and bursting into flame on her backside as she's falling into the upper atmosphere. The planet has a thinner atmosphere and lower gravity than earth. Shepard has full armor and kenetic barriers. It is possible that parts of her would still be intact and they would be preserved on a frozen world like that.

About kinetic barries, I just read that a peice of the normandy sliced through his oxygen supply. I don't remember that or am not about to agree, but if true, why didn't the barrier stop that?

The only reason I can think of is that the blastsor two that Shepard get that push him off the Normandy killed his barries much like when Shepard gets hit by an grenade. This allowed the object to puncture his suit. But then a punctured suit would comromise the integrity of the suit, which means that his suit would burn up much faster.

Am I going the right way?

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

That scene is really touching and actually makes me like Ashley a little more. But I understand why they cut it, what with the religious implications.

Why, because ME suddenly became shy discussing religion?

When Benezia dies she talks about how she doesnt see a light, and was always told there would be a light, and Mordin flat out says the Bible is just mythology.

I dont see why they'd shy away from dialogue that doesnt really say anything either way about religion, other than that Shep never actually saw the afterlife, if it existed.

I know, it doesn't make sense, but maybe flat out saying there is no afterlife by Shepard might have been too much. I don't believe in an afterlife so I'm not offended but I could see how some people might be.

Well theres like three or four times Shep implies she believes the afterlife does exist in ME3, and as an atheist that didnt bother me.

If Shepard implying once that the afterlife doesnt exist bothers religious people, then their beliefs must be pretty shaky if a fictional character saying the afterlife doesnt exist can bother them.

no disagreement here.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Of course but then you have to take into account that systems were failing at the time and the situation wasn't improving until Sovereign was dead for sure. Also, those kinetic barries are useless...

No, they can hold in oxygen or at least some atmosphere. Joker is behind one in the cockpit at the beginning of ME2 during the collector attack. It's the only thing keeping him from being exposed to vaccum.

It is probably a Mass Effect field and not a kinetic barrier which is used for closing hull breaches.

[MaximizedAction]

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Here's that cut dialogue put to screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/Q9DmN.jpg 

That scene is really touching and actually makes me like Ashley a little more. But I understand why they cut it, what with the religious implications.

Why, because ME suddenly became shy discussing religion?

When Benezia dies she talks about how she doesnt see a light, and was always told there would be a light, and Mordin flat out says the Bible is just mythology.

I dont see why they'd shy away from dialogue that doesnt really say anything either way about religion, other than that Shep never actually saw the afterlife, if it existed.

I know, it doesn't make sense, but maybe flat out saying there is no afterlife by Shepard might have been too much. I don't believe in an afterlife so I'm not offended but I could see how some people might be.

Well theres like three or four times Shep implies she believes the afterlife does exist in ME3, and as an atheist that didnt bother me.

If Shepard implying once that the afterlife doesnt exist bothers religious people, then their beliefs must be pretty shaky if a fictional character saying the afterlife doesnt exist can bother them.

This is not how real people work. See the FOX' take on ME1. <_<

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

HyperGlass wrote...

@Unschuld
I've seen that scene so many times and I can say that just when the camera starts to pan out Shep is glowing to a degree.

The "sun" is rising correction: setting over the planet as the camera pans. There is a blink of light as Shepard tumbles away, which might not be burning, but merely a reflection. Besides, the angle which he gets blasted away from the Normandy isn't straight towards the planet, but the horizon.

http://www.youtube.c...k7hwbrRc#t=413s

I could very well be wrong, but I find the fact that it's never specifically stated that he reenters atmo, he's propelled FAR away from the Normandy wreckage where you find the helmet, and surviving (physically, not alive/dead) reentry just being too hard to believe pushes me away from that idea.

I think you're in denial, because the scene specifically shows Shepard being propelled toward the planet and bursting into flame on her backside as she's falling into the upper atmosphere. The planet has a thinner atmosphere and lower gravity than earth. Shepard has full armor and kenetic barriers. It is possible that parts of her would still be intact and they would be preserved on a frozen world like that.

About kinetic barries, I just read that a peice of the normandy sliced through his oxygen supply. I don't remember that or am not about to agree, but if true, why didn't the barrier stop that?

The only reason I can think of is that the blastsor two that Shepard get that push him off the Normandy killed his barries much like when Shepard gets hit by an grenade. This allowed the object to puncture his suit. But then a punctured suit would comromise the integrity of the suit, which means that his suit would burn up much faster.

Am I going the right way?

I think the blast knocked out Shepard's kinetic barrier temporarily, like in a firefight, because the shrapnel hit comes a few moments after the blast. The kinetic barrier would have come up again after that, but it would have been too late for Shepard.

[balance5050]

byne wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


No, they can hold in oxygen or at least some atmosphere. Joker is behind one in the cockpit at the beginning of ME2 during the collector attack. It's the only thing keeping him from being exposed to vaccum.

I thought he also had that snazzy little breathmask

He does have a mask but the temperature and pressure must still be containd because he is only wearing a t-shirt still. He would insta freeze if the barrier had a breach in it. I think the mask may be a safety protocol thing, I don't know if it's actually the thing saving him.

Modifié par balance5050, 25 mai 2012 - 08:32 .