55528 réponses à ce sujet

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Wait I don't think that was a Kinetic Barrier since Shepard walked right threw it. Wasn't that a Mass Effect Field?

What do you think kinetic barriers are? 

Pardon my confusion. yes you're right they are mass effect fields.

I found this though:

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.
"

Radiation poisining is one thing not considered when Shepard falls from space. We know he suit can't protect against radiation either. The Fuel Reactors mission is evidence of that. How did Cerberus cure him of radiation while rebuilding his body?

[paxxton]

excelon wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

You guys also seem to be forgetting Alchera (the planet the Normandy crashed on) only had an atmosphere 83% as thick as Earth's, and only had a gravity of 0.85g.

I dont pretend to understand the dynamics of reentry, but I'd figure that less gravity + less thick atmosphere would = less heat on reentry, no?

No.

I think you also have to consider the velocity of a moving object.

Using Newtonian Mechanics, and differentials on the Gravitational field at a given height, along with air possible air resistance. That would take awhile to calculate. But given the planets mass, and pressure I think I could do it.

Unfortunately, we don't have the data.

EDIT: No, byne says in a later post that we have it in the Mass Effect Wikia.

Modifié par paxxton, 25 mai 2012 - 09:04 .

[byne]

excelon wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

You guys also seem to be forgetting Alchera (the planet the Normandy crashed on) only had an atmosphere 83% as thick as Earth's, and only had a gravity of 0.85g.

I dont pretend to understand the dynamics of reentry, but I'd figure that less gravity + less thick atmosphere would = less heat on reentry, no?

No.

I think you also have to consider the velocity of a moving object.

Using Newtonian Mechanics, and differentials on the Gravitational field at a given height, along with air possible air resistance. That would take awhile to calculate. But given the planets mass, and pressure I think I could do it.

This has all the stats for the planet.

[Unschuld]

BatmanTurian wrote...
I am taking it literally. you are the one making things up. I watched Shepard being propelled into the atmosphere of the planet. I watched her start to burn up in the atmosphere. It's just common sense that once you're burning up in the atmosphere, you're deep in the planet's gravity well and it's pulling you to the surface. Physics 101.

I resent that accusation, I never made anything up. Now you're  making things up (about me).

[Corik]

byne wrote...

Wait wait wait! You guys, the **** does any of this have to do with IT?

We should probly get back on topic sometime.

Do people really think/hope IT could be what Bioware was planing since launch? I mean, It's awesome... but should we have hope for it?

I'm quite hopeless right now... and depressed.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Wait I don't think that was a Kinetic Barrier since Shepard walked right threw it. Wasn't that a Mass Effect Field?

What do you think kinetic barriers are? 

Pardon my confusion. yes you're right they are mass effect fields.

I found this though:

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.
"

Radiation poisining is one thing not considered when Shepard falls from space. We know he suit can't protect against radiation either. The Fuel Reactors mission is evidence of that. How did Cerberus cure him of radiation while rebuilding his body?

Does reentry cause radiation? Like I said, I dont exactly know much about the dynamics of reentry.

[BatmanTurian]

Unschuld wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
I am taking it literally. you are the one making things up. I watched Shepard being propelled into the atmosphere of the planet. I watched her start to burn up in the atmosphere. It's just common sense that once you're burning up in the atmosphere, you're deep in the planet's gravity well and it's pulling you to the surface. Physics 101.

I resent that accusation, I never made anything up. Now you're  making things up (about me).

ugh. You are stating Shepard never fell to the planet when everything indicates Shepard did. That statement is false.

[Unschuld]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

excelon wrote...

I didn't intend for you guys to analyze my statement to closely I mean from a Physics standpoint Shepard should have disintegrated, but it's a video game. They're allowed to bend the truth to a certain extent.

Bending the truth to a certain extent is one thing - claiming the Destroy --> get the Breathe ending is supposed to be taken as valid because Shepard survived (or, as it is, didn't) reentry once, because he learned so much the first time he can survive it again with messed up armor and without. a. helmet. is a bit more than a strech - it's not even a plot hole, that's a full-blown ravine.

more like the Mariana Trench

Valles Marineris, if you want to stay with the space theme.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Wait I don't think that was a Kinetic Barrier since Shepard walked right threw it. Wasn't that a Mass Effect Field?

What do you think kinetic barriers are? 

Pardon my confusion. yes you're right they are mass effect fields.

I found this though:

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.
"

Radiation poisining is one thing not considered when Shepard falls from space. We know he suit can't protect against radiation either. The Fuel Reactors mission is evidence of that. How did Cerberus cure him of radiation while rebuilding his body?

I thought the armor does have limited radiation protection. Other wise you couldn't walk on the surface of a lot of planets that you do.

Modifié par balance5050, 25 mai 2012 - 08:58 .

[MissOuJ]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

excelon wrote...

I didn't intend for you guys to analyze my statement to closely I mean from a Physics standpoint Shepard should have disintegrated, but it's a video game. They're allowed to bend the truth to a certain extent.

Bending the truth to a certain extent is one thing - claiming the Destroy --> get the Breathe ending is supposed to be taken as valid because Shepard survived (or, as it is, didn't) reentry once, because he learned so much the first time he can survive it again with messed up armor and without. a. helmet. is a bit more than a strech - it's not even a plot hole, that's a full-blown ravine.

more like the Mariana Trench

Exactly - and that's the main reason I believe in IT: no other theory or fact, in-universe or otherwise, explains how my Shepard ended up in that pile of rubble breathing, if what happened after the race to the conduit physically happened. Somebody explain this to me without IT, and I might change my stand, because pretty much all other evidence is circumstancial/can be interpreted several different ways. But Shepard surviving that blast plus reentry to Earth makes even less sence than any of the endings/any other theories.

[BatmanTurian]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Wait I don't think that was a Kinetic Barrier since Shepard walked right threw it. Wasn't that a Mass Effect Field?

What do you think kinetic barriers are? 

Pardon my confusion. yes you're right they are mass effect fields.

I found this though:

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.
"

Radiation poisining is one thing not considered when Shepard falls from space. We know he suit can't protect against radiation either. The Fuel Reactors mission is evidence of that. How did Cerberus cure him of radiation while rebuilding his body?

Does reentry cause radiation? Like I said, I dont exactly know much about the dynamics of reentry.

vaccum is full of radiation from stars and the cosmic background, hitting you everywhere. Only the electro-magnetic shield created by the movement of liquid metal in the Earth's core shields the Earth from deadly radiation, such as what exists on Mars. Mars has no electromagnetic radiation.

Sh*t, this means they wouldn't have been protected on Mars. Maybe the suits are lined with lead. I don't know.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 25 mai 2012 - 09:00 .

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Wait I don't think that was a Kinetic Barrier since Shepard walked right threw it. Wasn't that a Mass Effect Field?

What do you think kinetic barriers are? 

Pardon my confusion. yes you're right they are mass effect fields.

I found this though:

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.
"

Radiation poisining is one thing not considered when Shepard falls from space. We know he suit can't protect against radiation either. The Fuel Reactors mission is evidence of that. How did Cerberus cure him of radiation while rebuilding his body?

Does reentry cause radiation? Like I said, I dont exactly know much about the dynamics of reentry.

No but being exposed in space does. Exposed radiation from the sun is dangerous enough. There's also radiation from other sources in the galaxy going through space all the time.

Also, this has a good deal to do with IT. If Bioware can forgive these oddities for the sake of the story, why can't they do it to make Shepard survive the end.

I understand the concern, thought, about Shepard being where he was and not getting burned from radiation. But if bioware ignored this in ME2, it's likely they ignored it in 3 as well.

[BatmanTurian]

MissOuJ wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

excelon wrote...

I didn't intend for you guys to analyze my statement to closely I mean from a Physics standpoint Shepard should have disintegrated, but it's a video game. They're allowed to bend the truth to a certain extent.

Bending the truth to a certain extent is one thing - claiming the Destroy --> get the Breathe ending is supposed to be taken as valid because Shepard survived (or, as it is, didn't) reentry once, because he learned so much the first time he can survive it again with messed up armor and without. a. helmet. is a bit more than a strech - it's not even a plot hole, that's a full-blown ravine.

more like the Mariana Trench

Exactly - and that's the main reason I believe in IT: no other theory or fact, in-universe or otherwise, explains how my Shepard ended up in that pile of rubble breathing, if what happened after the race to the conduit physically happened. Somebody explain this to me without IT, and I might change my stand, because pretty much all other evidence is circumstancial/can be interpreted several different ways. But Shepard surviving that blast plus reentry to Earth makes even less sence than any of the endings/any other theories.

My personal opinion is that this is the strongest evidence that the ending cannot be taken literally up until the breath cinematic.

[EpyonX3]

BatmanTurian wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Wait I don't think that was a Kinetic Barrier since Shepard walked right threw it. Wasn't that a Mass Effect Field?

What do you think kinetic barriers are? 

Pardon my confusion. yes you're right they are mass effect fields.

I found this though:

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.
"

Radiation poisining is one thing not considered when Shepard falls from space. We know he suit can't protect against radiation either. The Fuel Reactors mission is evidence of that. How did Cerberus cure him of radiation while rebuilding his body?

Does reentry cause radiation? Like I said, I dont exactly know much about the dynamics of reentry.

vaccum is full of radiation from stars and the cosmic background, hitting you everywhere. Only the electro-magnetic shield created by the movement of liquid metal in the Earth's core shields the Earth from deadly radiation, such as what exists on Mars. Mars has no electromagnetic radiation.

Sh*t, this means they wouldn't have been protected on Mars. Maybe the suits are lined with lead. I don't know.

Then that reactor mission would be a contradiction.

[BatmanTurian]

Unschuld wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

excelon wrote...

I didn't intend for you guys to analyze my statement to closely I mean from a Physics standpoint Shepard should have disintegrated, but it's a video game. They're allowed to bend the truth to a certain extent.

Bending the truth to a certain extent is one thing - claiming the Destroy --> get the Breathe ending is supposed to be taken as valid because Shepard survived (or, as it is, didn't) reentry once, because he learned so much the first time he can survive it again with messed up armor and without. a. helmet. is a bit more than a strech - it's not even a plot hole, that's a full-blown ravine.

more like the Mariana Trench

Valles Marineris, if you want to stay with the space theme.

Also known as Challenger Deep at the deepest point.

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Wait I don't think that was a Kinetic Barrier since Shepard walked right threw it. Wasn't that a Mass Effect Field?

What do you think kinetic barriers are? 

Pardon my confusion. yes you're right they are mass effect fields.

I found this though:

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.
"

Radiation poisining is one thing not considered when Shepard falls from space. We know he suit can't protect against radiation either. The Fuel Reactors mission is evidence of that. How did Cerberus cure him of radiation while rebuilding his body?

Does reentry cause radiation? Like I said, I dont exactly know much about the dynamics of reentry.

vaccum is full of radiation from stars and the cosmic background, hitting you everywhere. Only the electro-magnetic shield created by the movement of liquid metal in the Earth's core shields the Earth from deadly radiation, such as what exists on Mars. Mars has no electromagnetic radiation.

Sh*t, this means they wouldn't have been protected on Mars. Maybe the suits are lined with lead. I don't know.

Then that reactor mission would be a contradiction.

ME writers got some radiation 'splainin ta' do.

[MaximizedAction]

BatmanTurian wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Wait I don't think that was a Kinetic Barrier since Shepard walked right threw it. Wasn't that a Mass Effect Field?

What do you think kinetic barriers are? 

Pardon my confusion. yes you're right they are mass effect fields.

I found this though:

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.
"

Radiation poisining is one thing not considered when Shepard falls from space. We know he suit can't protect against radiation either. The Fuel Reactors mission is evidence of that. How did Cerberus cure him of radiation while rebuilding his body?

Does reentry cause radiation? Like I said, I dont exactly know much about the dynamics of reentry.

vaccum is full of radiation from stars and the cosmic background, hitting you everywhere. Only the electro-magnetic shield created by the movement of liquid metal in the Earth's core shields the Earth from deadly radiation, such as what exists on Mars. Mars has no electromagnetic radiation.

Sh*t, this means they wouldn't have been protected on Mars. Maybe the suits are lined with lead. I don't know.

I think the suits are such that they are protected from such basic dangers from space. Mass Effect fields can accomplish that, or how do you think TIM's base is able to orbit a star on such a low orbit?

[balance5050]

I'm pretty sure it's explained that the suit can take radiation in limited quantities. Space suits are designed like that.

Modifié par balance5050, 25 mai 2012 - 09:08 .

[paxxton]

Corik wrote...

byne wrote...

Wait wait wait! You guys, the **** does any of this have to do with IT?

We should probly get back on topic sometime.

Do people really think/hope IT could be what Bioware was planing since launch? I mean, It's awesome... but should we have hope for it?

I'm quite hopeless right now... and depressed.

The evidence is in-game so you have to assume that BioWare planned it. Unless the evidence is misinterpreted.

[BatmanTurian]

MaximizedAction wrote...

I think the suits are such that they are protected from such basic dangers from space. Mass Effect fields can accomplish that, or how do you think TIM's base is able to orbit a star on such a low orbit?

I know, there's just some inconsistancies. Or maybe none and we are thinking too hard about it.

[Unschuld]

BatmanTurian wrote...
ugh. You are stating Shepard never fell to the planet when everything indicates Shepard did. That statement is false.

I never made that statement. I said I don't think  Shepard fell planetside, and there's no dialogue directly indicating so. This is all hinging around a few seconds of video that pan out away from the character who's emitting radiation/light which could also be attributed to the star on the horizon (Shepard goes dim once the star passes the horizon). I wouldn't say that's "everything" indicating re-entry, because there is literally nothing else besides a helmet (weak). A few minutes in vacuum followed by re-entry and landing on a planet with .83 earth atmos is not "prolonged exposure to vacuum" as described by the Lazerus project team.

Honestly, you're getting way too worked up over this, and your resort to accusations is disappointing. This was meant as fun conjecture.



I'm not the only one who's thought of this either.
http://www.bungie.ne...stRepeater1-p=2 
A few posts down, someone (Reptilian Rob, I'm assuming the same from this forum) says that the insufficient mass would cause him to bounce back into orbit due to insufficient velocity. Not exactly proof, but I'm looking into it to see if he's right.

[paxxton]

BatmanTurian wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

I think the suits are such that they are protected from such basic dangers from space. Mass Effect fields can accomplish that, or how do you think TIM's base is able to orbit a star on such a low orbit?

I know, there's just some inconsistancies. Or maybe none and we are thinking too hard about it.

No. No. No.

Shepard's suit had holes through which air flowed out. If it had kinectic barriers, Shepard would be alive when the rescue team arrived..

Modifié par paxxton, 25 mai 2012 - 09:12 .

[MissOuJ]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

Does reentry cause radiation? Like I said, I dont exactly know much about the dynamics of reentry.

No but being exposed in space does. Exposed radiation from the sun is dangerous enough. There's also radiation from other sources in the galaxy going through space all the time.

Also, this has a good deal to do with IT. If Bioware can forgive these oddities for the sake of the story, why can't they do it to make Shepard survive the end.

I understand the concern, thought, about Shepard being where he was and not getting burned from radiation. But if bioware ignored this in ME2, it's likely they ignored it in 3 as well.

The impact of space radiation is an odity a sci-fi writer can probably overlook. Surviving a reenty to the Earth's atmosphere and the subsecuent impact with Earth's (pretty solid) crust without any gear is not an odity; it's a plot hole singularity. Even if Shepard survived reentry once there's no way he'd make it to Earth alive/at all in the shape he was in when he destroyed the Crucible/Citadel.

So, that is either 1) possible indication of the IT, 2) a non-canonical ending which was added to the game because ???, or 3) a supermassive, alltogether ridiculous plothole.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 25 mai 2012 - 09:11 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

balance5050 wrote...

I'm pretty sure it's explained that the suit can take radiation in limited quantities. Space suits are designed like that.

That would make the most sense what with all the landings on potentially hazardous planets. Don't forget: Their armor and shields are functional when walking around Mars, Shepard's is battle scarred and broken in the end sequence.

[Unschuld]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Also known as Challenger Deep at the deepest point.

No, this one.