55528 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenEyry]

BatmanTurian wrote...

But what does it say about its detractors? I mean without insulting them.

They hated english lessons so refuse to interpret anything beyond face value lest it bring up bad memories?

[BatmanTurian]

RavenEyry wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

But what does it say about its detractors? I mean without insulting them.

They hated english lessons so refuse to interpret anything beyond face value lest it bring up bad memories?

lol i can see how this could be true. Most of this generation are COD and Halo kiddies and they've played games that were obvious at face value. And there are a lot of people who don't read regularly and so wouldn't be familiar with story elements like metaphors and symbolism. And then there are people who are not writers like Arian and I, or filmmakers like Dreamgazer, who wouldn't recognize it right away from using it in their own works.

[blooregard]

BatmanTurian wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

IT is great because it forces players to re examine the trilogy far more closely and it gives those who believe IT a new found appreciation for excellent story telling in games. If videogames are to be considered art this level of depth is the standard.

But what does it say about its detractors? I mean without insulting them.

The detractors are the rare cases in which ignorance doesn't equal to bliss

[blooregard]

BatmanTurian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

But what does it say about its detractors? I mean without insulting them.

They hated english lessons so refuse to interpret anything beyond face value lest it bring up bad memories?

lol i can see how this could be true. Most of this generation are COD and Halo kiddies and they've played games that were obvious at face value. And there are a lot of people who don't read regularly and so wouldn't be familiar with story elements like metaphors and symbolism. And then there are people who are not writers like Arian and I, or filmmakers like Dreamgazer, who wouldn't recognize it right away from using it in their own works.

I'm a take it at face value because I'm lazy. I'm open to interpretation if someone can point it out^_^

[GethPrimeMKII]

Ive gotten a chance to talk over skype while playing MP with quite a few people who do not believe IT. Among them, alot of them surprisingly have not played ME1 and 2. So theyre arguing from a poorly informed stand point. For those who have and still shoot down IT its usually an intense desire to be incredulous. Its obvious they want to be among the few who can say "i told you all so" if IT happens to be completely false.

[MaximizedAction]

RavenEyry wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

But what does it say about its detractors? I mean without insulting them.

They hated english lessons so refuse to interpret anything beyond face value lest it bring up bad memories?

Maybe this is it.
I know people who hate art that depends heavily on interpretation, I myself, though being more technically oriented, find stylistic devices very interesting. It's like a car with great design. Sure, a Pinto does the job, but sitting in an Aston Martin is a whole different dimension.

Same with normal video games and ME3 (with IT). It's a new dimension to video gaming, imo. Maybe even the proper one, that no other media can offer.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 26 mai 2012 - 04:18 .

[D.Sharrah]

Icinix wrote...

I've decided to come to the bat crap crazy conclusion that the conduit isn't a conduit at all - but is a giant indoctrination device that sucks everyone into thinking they need to get towards it some how.

How the hell does anyone possibly know that it sends people up to the citadel? There is no way of knowing it does anything of the sort.

I've got a convert...yesssss.  Being saying this for awhile...I started to get convinced, once we started to look at the rublle scenery and there seems to be an object there that has a lot in similar with Object Rho.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Exactly. The game incorporates alot of symbolism. Something alot of gamers wont be familiar with. Lets face it, the average game has a plot easy enough for an 8yr old to grasp. Coupled with the fact that alot of kids really dont read much anymore, i can see how the ending could completely fly over the heads of many players even with a thorough explanation.

[D.Sharrah]

Munsterlander wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Haven't played any MP...but just thought of a question for those that do...are the matches exclusive to the platform you are on?  I mean can 360 players only play w/360 players, PC players w/PC players, etc. or can you play with anyone online?  Just morbid curiosity more than anything else.

I know you said this a while ago, but I just felt I should mention you seem to have the definition a morbid curiosity wrong. Morbid curiosity is when one is curios about death. 

Not sure that I mentoined that specific phrase before or not...I can see where you are coming from, but I always figured it was a figure of speech that developed from the whole curiosity killed the cat thing...but anyways that wasn't the point...and neither was trying spark a pc vs. console debate - rather the opposite.  I thought if there was some cross platform play allowed it would be a nice way to build a bridge b/w those differing community members...that's all.

[D.Sharrah]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Confusion is not the same as complete hallucination.

IT states that the endings didn't happen at all. I don't believe indoc is powerful enough to cause that complete state of hallucination, where you are transported to a completely different environment.

It is enough to believe you to act differently to what is already happening, but it can't insert a complete new reality. You can exprience things like phantasms and whispers in the background, but your environment essentially stays the same.

Indoc is more a strong suggesiton, as government leaders while indoctrinated still need to function in reality. They don't get transported to a land of unicorns and ponies.

To the bolded part...that is just one of the interpertations.  There are others that suggest that IT includes a "waking nightmare" component...that is there is a mix of reality and hallucination and part of what is so confusing/frustrating about the endings is not being sure what is real and what is hallucination/dream.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BatmanTurian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

But what does it say about its detractors? I mean without insulting them.

They hated english lessons so refuse to interpret anything beyond face value lest it bring up bad memories?

lol i can see how this could be true. Most of this generation are COD and Halo kiddies and they've played games that were obvious at face value. And there are a lot of people who don't read regularly and so wouldn't be familiar with story elements like metaphors and symbolism. And then there are people who are not writers like Arian and I, or filmmakers like Dreamgazer, who wouldn't recognize it right away from using it in their own works.

This is propably true. I grew up reading fantasy stories and playing videogames, mostly Nintendo games at first, but I have since expanded beyond that especially to RPG´s after stumbling across KOTOR by coincedence. I faced the revan twist without having it spoiled, fantastic moment which changed my view of videogame stories forever.

Since then I have also started writing as hobby, which i ahve been on for over 3 years and several stories behind me. As as mentioned by you i am aware of buidl up and when something seems of on pupose, infact i kinda pride myself on beeing good at predicting a plot based on the past events...

But i can certainly imagine why others would not have faced such things to the same degree.

[blooregard]

I just noticed another example of Reaper intervention.

The Protheans had to cause the zha'til's (not sure if correct name) sun to go supernova some time around the beginning of the Reaper war (I can't recall if it was before or at the very beginning)

Shepard had to pop the alpha relay to prevent the Reapers from pouring in.

Both of these were supernovas and both of they possibly were caused by Reaper intervention (at least with the case of the alpha relay)

[MaximizedAction]

For those of you familiar with Blade Runner. One might draw a few comparisons between BR and ME3, if not just the controvertial ending. Here someone over at gamefaqs offered his(her) opinion:

www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62873057

I, for example, missed the similarity in the dreams. Add to that Mike Gamble's tweet about how it took Ridley Scott 20 years to reveal what Deckard really was.

Just something that crossed my mind...

[RavenEyry]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
I faced the revan twist without having it spoiled,

I did too but by complete honest no-joke coincidence I had named the character 'Revan', causing the twist to be confusing and hilarious.

[Ytook]

MaximizedAction wrote...

For those of you familiar with Blade Runner. One might draw a few comparisons between BR and ME3, if not just the controvertial ending. Here someone over at gamefaqs offered his(her) opinion:

www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62873057

I, for example, missed the similarity in the dreams. Add to that Mike Gamble's tweet about how it took Ridley Scott 20 years to reveal what Deckard really was.

Just something that crossed my mind...

What Gamble tweet was that?

[delldo]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Ive gotten a chance to talk over skype while playing MP with quite a few people who do not believe IT. Among them, alot of them surprisingly have not played ME1 and 2. So theyre arguing from a poorly informed stand point. For those who have and still shoot down IT its usually an intense desire to be incredulous. Its obvious they want to be among the few who can say "i told you all so" if IT happens to be completely false.

It has been my experience as well; those that I know who do not believe Shepard to be indoctrinated have never played the first two games or played them but never completed them.  They see the endings as literal and take it all at face value... sad people, even if IT is false I will never take that ending at face value.

[BatmanTurian]

RavenEyry wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
I faced the revan twist without having it spoiled,

I did too but by complete honest no-joke coincidence I had named the character 'Revan', causing the twist to be confusing and hilarious.

That must have been really awkward.

[Big Bad]

MaximizedAction wrote...

For those of you familiar with Blade Runner. One might draw a few comparisons between BR and ME3, if not just the controvertial ending. Here someone over at gamefaqs offered his(her) opinion:

www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62873057

I, for example, missed the similarity in the dreams. Add to that Mike Gamble's tweet about how it took Ridley Scott 20 years to reveal what Deckard really was.

Just something that crossed my mind...

Also, I think Blade Runner and ME share a common theme - namely, that all sentient beings, whether organic or synthetic, share an inherent dignity that should be respected and honored.

I think this is one of the more important themes of the series, which is why I find Starbringer's notion that synthetics are predestined to commit genocide against all organics to be so repellent.

[RavenEyry]

BatmanTurian wrote...

That must have been really awkward.

It did result in a conversation where I was allowed to shout "I'm not Revan any more, I'm Revan now!" or something along those lines. My first playthrough was darkside, so technically they weren't lying.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

RavenEyry wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
I faced the revan twist without having it spoiled,

I did too but by complete honest no-joke coincidence I had named the character 'Revan', causing the twist to be confusing and hilarious.

Darth Malak: "You are Revan!"

Revan: "Yes, that is my name..."

Nice, must have been hilariuos.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 26 mai 2012 - 04:55 .

[balance5050]

blooregard wrote...

I just noticed another example of Reaper intervention.

The Protheans had to cause the zha'til's (not sure if correct name) sun to go supernova some time around the beginning of the Reaper war (I can't recall if it was before or at the very beginning)

Shepard had to pop the alpha relay to prevent the Reapers from pouring in.

Both of these were supernovas and both of they possibly were caused by Reaper intervention (at least with the case of the alpha relay)

This is a little confusing to me, the wiki said that the 
zha'til were actually subjagated by the reapers and that's why they had to make the sun go super nova.

"When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely." 


It also says that the zha'til were originally organics who implanted themselves to deal with the harsh envirinment of their homeworld. They sound like they were peaceful before the reapers.

Javic acts like they were that way before the reapers came, so I'm just wondering from where in the game did the wiki get this information.

[MaximizedAction]

Big Bad wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

For those of you familiar with Blade Runner. One might draw a few comparisons between BR and ME3, if not just the controvertial ending. Here someone over at gamefaqs offered his(her) opinion:

www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62873057

I, for example, missed the similarity in the dreams. Add to that Mike Gamble's tweet about how it took Ridley Scott 20 years to reveal what Deckard really was.

Just something that crossed my mind...

Also, I think Blade Runner and ME share a common theme - namely, that all sentient beings, whether organic or synthetic, share an inherent dignity that should be respected and honored.

I think this is one of the more important themes of the series, which is why I find Starbringer's notion that synthetics are predestined to commit genocide against all organics to be so repellent.

Yes! And considering in what a close proximity we whitnessed the contradiction to Starbinger's claims simply by the Geth (if you decided to save them), it should be 'obvious' that something's not right about his claims, and ultimately his credibility.
But it's because the game ended there, many players simply took it as bad writing and didn't question it.

And who's to blame them, Blade Runner -- prior to the Final Cut -- caused IT-similar arguments between fans, too.

So, when ME3's story is done, maybe ME3 will go down in entertainment history as the Blade Runner of video games.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 26 mai 2012 - 05:00 .

[Big Bad]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

For those of you familiar with Blade Runner. One might draw a few comparisons between BR and ME3, if not just the controvertial ending. Here someone over at gamefaqs offered his(her) opinion:

www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62873057

I, for example, missed the similarity in the dreams. Add to that Mike Gamble's tweet about how it took Ridley Scott 20 years to reveal what Deckard really was.

Just something that crossed my mind...

Also, I think Blade Runner and ME share a common theme - namely, that all sentient beings, whether organic or synthetic, share an inherent dignity that should be respected and honored.

I think this is one of the more important themes of the series, which is why I find Starbringer's notion that synthetics are predestined to commit genocide against all organics to be so repellent.

Yes! And considering in what a close proximity we whitnessed the contradiction to Starbinger's claims simply by the Geth (if you decided to save them), it should be 'obvious' that something's not right about his claims, and ultimately his credibility.
But it's because the game ended there, many players simply took it as bad writing and didn't question it.

And who's to blame them, Blade Runner -- prior to the Final Cut -- caused IT-similar arguments between fans, too.

So, when ME3's story is done, maybe ME3 will go down in entertainment history as the Blade Runner of video games.

Dear god, I truly hope you're right!

[lythran9]

personally i think if they are going to go down the hallucination route they could easily turn around and show that everything since coming in to contact with the beacon on eden prime in ME 1 was a hallucination just to wack a middle finger in your face after the smack you just recieved from the actual ending

[LelianaHawke]

To the bolded part...that is just one of the interpertations.  There are others that suggest that IT includes a "waking nightmare" component...that is there is a mix of reality and hallucination and part of what is so confusing/frustrating about the endings is not being sure what is real and what is hallucination/dream.

I support IT to the extent that it supports player speculation. My problem becomes when it becomes THE ending... when evidence is used to show others they are wrong. At the end of the day, it's all just headcanon. Personally, I like my own headcanon more.

I actually don't want the ending to be too clarified, because then it introduces too much set canon. The problem with set  canon is that Bioware doesn't have the money needed to do all possible consequences and permutations justice. The moment they choose one thing, they're just ignoring others due to lack of time and money.

Good example is how Liara got lifted above all other LI's... because she had the biggest fanbase. I don't want my Shepard to be at the mercy of EA's finance department, forcing Bioware to make a choice. And I certainly don't want her to be at the mercy of forum polling and have to conform to others' headcanon.

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 26 mai 2012 - 05:08 .